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Topic: Bitstamp issues statement and temporarily suspends service - page 2. (Read 8053 times)

legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
many people forget that Bitstamp "reserve" it's the client's Bitcoin.

Pretty much this. People forget customer's money is NOT a Bitstamp asset. They have to cover up the losses from their income, which is based on trading fees.

I may add...and not only on trading fees. You cannot make millions from 0.03%. This is like free so they have other source of making money from this biz; maybe the price difference... Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 296
Merit: 250
many people forget that Bitstamp "reserve" it's the client's Bitcoin.

Pretty much this. People forget customer's money is NOT a Bitstamp asset. They have to cover up the losses from their income, which is based on trading fees.

And $10 million investment of venture capital money, plus sales from ripples which they sold at way above market price.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
many people forget that Bitstamp "reserve" it's the client's Bitcoin.

Pretty much this. People forget customer's money is NOT a Bitstamp asset. They have to cover up the losses from their income, which is based on trading fees.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
many people forget that Bitstamp "reserve" it's the client's Bitcoin.

That Bitcoin doesn't belong to Bitstamp.

Bitstamp must cover the loss from their pocket. 5 MiL USD. Huge amount.

Imagine how it is to count 5 MIL USD.... Smiley

They know very well that they won't rebuilt their reputation soon so they money won't come to them. Maybe they will risk to cover the less... 5 MIL.Would you? Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

more than 10% of their coins in their possession stolen.

So how do they handle the instant run on bitcoin and fiat once they reopen?

Institute bullshit daily limits?

That won't fly well given their situation. I would imagine there would be a pretty big uproar among customers/users should they not allow FULL btc and fiat withdraws.

Just consider that as a long term loan to a hacker. MTGOX managed to operate 2 years before they could never make the lost coin back, but MTGOX is unlucky since they were hit by the ASIC evolution of bitcoin mining, and the bitcoin price rose by 100x because of ASIC miners

At current situation, with no large mining tech advance in horizon, bitstamp have plenty of time to make those coin back

How will they make those coin back?

If users are allowed to withdraw...I can see their daily trade volume for the next year going down much lower than it has been due to lack of trust.

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Just consider that as a long term loan to a hacker. MTGOX managed to operate 2 years before they could never make the lost coin back, but MTGOX is unlucky since they were hit by the ASIC evolution of bitcoin mining, and the bitcoin price rose by 100x because of ASIC miners

I wish it would be that simple to raise the bitcoin price Smiley I am doing my part in buying ASICs, do you?
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination

more than 10% of their coins in their possession stolen.

So how do they handle the instant run on bitcoin and fiat once they reopen?

Institute bullshit daily limits?

That won't fly well given their situation. I would imagine there would be a pretty big uproar among customers/users should they not allow FULL btc and fiat withdraws.

Just consider that as a long term loan to a hacker. MTGOX managed to operate 2 years before they could never make the lost coin back, but MTGOX is unlucky since they were hit by the ASIC evolution of bitcoin mining, and the bitcoin price rose by 100x because of ASIC miners

At current situation, with no large mining tech advance in horizon, bitstamp have plenty of time to make those coin back
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Bitstamp's announcement of setting up a duplicate site in San Francisco reminds me of Mt. Gox claiming their "new trading engine" would fix their problems.  That was just an excuse for stalling.  

I don't think that they going down yet. But they have serous problems. So let's hope the best!



they will drag down Ripple and other sister companies related to them. the scandal will be huge if they don't pay Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1059
Bitstamp's announcement of setting up a duplicate site in San Francisco reminds me of Mt. Gox claiming their "new trading engine" would fix their problems.  That was just an excuse for stalling.  

I don't think that they going down yet. But they have serous problems. So let's hope the best!

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/
25 hours later, still down.

Bitstamp's announcement of setting up a duplicate site in San Francisco reminds me of Mt. Gox claiming their "new trading engine" would fix their problems.  That was just an excuse for stalling.  
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/

GOX said more than once they would resume operations.

Let's see if they will honor what they say or if things will go even worse

yes, take a look and remember :   https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/mtgox-withdrawals-resume/

almost the same title  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1074
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/

GOX said more than once they would resume operations.

Let's see if they will honor what they say or if things will go even worse
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Or they could operate using fractional reserve method, a 90% reserve is still much much better than any banks which only have 10% of client money at hand.
That's not what "fractional reserve" means. For a bank, a loan is an asset - someone owes them money. Banks get into trouble  when many loans go bad, as happened when the real estate bubble popped. Or they get into trouble if they have short-term deposits and long term loans, and too many depositors want their money out at once.

That's not Bitstamp's situation. They don't own 30-year mortgages.  They have no big illiquid assets they can sell off. They have nothing except their customer balances, and, according to their financial statement filed with Companies House, a few hundred thousand in paid-in capital.

Bitstamp needs $5 million within days, or they're going into bankruptcy.

It is the same, although banks claim that they have this and that asset, when they suddenly need money, those loans can not come back in one night or one month. In fact 90% of the deposit money are just sitting in the bank's account without moving, that is the original reason banks loan out those money to earn interest on those dead money

What those coins in bitstamp's cold storage are doing? Collecting dust. They can actually loan out those coins and operate more like a real bank, but without loaning anything out they are much safer than a traditional bank if a large scale of withdraw is happening. For normal bank, if more than 40% of customer are doing withdraw simultaneously, they will run into a liquidity crisis and go broke. But unless more than 80% of bitstamp customer withdraw from bitstamp at the same time, they will be fine (Of course I suppose that they are doing 100% reserve, if they already practice FRB then no one knows how serious the situation is)

BTW, they don't need $5 million, they only need 19000 coins, no big deal for them. But if bitcoin price suddenly rise by 10 times, they might run into problems, just like MTGOX experienced, their initial loss of 200K coins caused by 2011 hack becomes so huge amount of wealth after 2 years that they can never earn it back

more than 10% of their coins in their possession stolen.

So how do they handle the instant run on bitcoin and fiat once they reopen?

Institute bullshit daily limits?

That won't fly well given their situation. I would imagine there would be a pretty big uproar among customers/users should they not allow FULL btc and fiat withdraws.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Time will tell.

Assuming they had a 10,000 BTC per day trading volume that turns into 40 BTC in trade fees per day...

For 1 year (365 days) that is 14600 BTC. That would be their entire yearly profit from fees.

They lost 18000+ BTC in one fell swoop.

Not sure if I would think they have enough reserves in profit even if it were 20,000 btc per day trade volume (which is way over estimating).

The past 365 days of bitstamp trading daily volumes/price.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Looks like 10k BTC per day is a nice reasonable number to assume is their average daily volume traded.

Based on those numbers I do not believe they have enough to cover said losses in full. Remember now they have expenses over that year.

You are overlooking old accounts, which probably make up a good portion of reserves.  For example people who deposits $10 worth of BTC, like 3 years ago and forgot the account even exists.

They could probably do a cash grab on those accounts (ie people who haven't logged in for 3 years) and make up a large amount of their losses, without anyone being the wiser.  Just locked out all those accounts, and if someone happens to try to login just give them the run around and "no record of your account"....sure it's shit; but it beats going bankrupt or giving everyone a haircut (and going bankrupt in the future).

Or claiming that everyone deposits after their January 6th warning to old addresses were "lost' even if they weren't....basically going through the couch cushions they could probably scrape together 10% of reserves.

I highly doubt there is that much extra "forgotten" cash sitting in unused accounts.

Even I who have moved a good amount of fiat through bitstamp don't leave even $1 on there if I do not have to.

I need that $1 to buy me some cheeseburgers! LOL  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/

Let's see. Hope this is not another BS. Though I have a relatively small amount with them compared to other members, it feels pretty crappy.

it depends what it means small amount for you, it could be big for other. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
Or they could operate using fractional reserve method, a 90% reserve is still much much better than any banks which only have 10% of client money at hand.
That's not what "fractional reserve" means. For a bank, a loan is an asset - someone owes them money. Banks get into trouble  when many loans go bad, as happened when the real estate bubble popped. Or they get into trouble if they have short-term deposits and long term loans, and too many depositors want their money out at once.

That's not Bitstamp's situation. They don't own 30-year mortgages.  They have no big illiquid assets they can sell off. They have nothing except their customer balances, and, according to their financial statement filed with Companies House, a few hundred thousand in paid-in capital.

Bitstamp needs $5 million within days, or they're going into bankruptcy.

It is the same, although banks claim that they have this and that asset, when they suddenly need money, those loans can not come back in one night or one month. In fact 90% of the deposit money are just sitting in the bank's account without moving, that is the original reason banks loan out those money to earn interest on those dead money

What those coins in bitstamp's cold storage are doing? Collecting dust. They can actually loan out those coins and operate more like a real bank, but without loaning anything out they are much safer than a traditional bank if a large scale of withdraw is happening. For normal bank, if more than 40% of customer are doing withdraw simultaneously, they will run into a liquidity crisis and go broke. But unless more than 80% of bitstamp customer withdraw from bitstamp at the same time, they will be fine (Of course I suppose that they are doing 100% reserve, if they already practice FRB then no one knows how serious the situation is)

BTW, they don't need $5 million, they only need 19000 coins, no big deal for them. But if bitcoin price suddenly rise by 10 times, they might run into problems, just like MTGOX experienced, their initial loss of 200K coins caused by 2011 hack becomes so huge amount of wealth after 2 years that they can never earn it back
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/
No indication of what they mean by "resume operations", though. If they resume withdrawals with no restrictions, they may be OK. If they resume trading or deposits but restrict withdrawals, this is Mt. Gox again.
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/

Let's see. Hope this is not another BS. Though I have a relatively small amount with them compared to other members, it feels pretty crappy.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Apparently they say they will resume operations in the next 24 hours:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitstamp-resume-operations-next-24-hours/
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
Bitstamp needs $5 million within days, or they're going into bankruptcy.

This is a fact. Considering they have been making tens of k's of BTC in commissions since 2011 and that they have been a running a relatively "low-cost" operation, they should be able to have 19k BTC laying around with no prob. Nevertheless it would be a big hit, and it's not guaranteed they managed their funds wisely in order to have such a "cushion" laying around.

Let's see how this plays out. I'm just glad that, as usual, I did not have any significant amount of coins in hands that are not my own.
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