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Topic: Bitstamp issues statement and temporarily suspends service - page 3. (Read 8055 times)

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Or they could operate using fractional reserve method, a 90% reserve is still much much better than any banks which only have 10% of client money at hand.
That's not what "fractional reserve" means. For a bank, a loan is an asset - someone owes them money. Banks get into trouble  when many loans go bad, as happened when the real estate bubble popped. Or they get into trouble if they have short-term deposits and long term loans, and too many depositors want their money out at once.

That's not Bitstamp's situation. They don't own 30-year mortgages.  They have no big illiquid assets they can sell off. They have nothing except their customer balances, and, according to their financial statement filed with Companies House, a few hundred thousand in paid-in capital.

Bitstamp needs $5 million within days, or they're going into bankruptcy.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
Time will tell.

Assuming they had a 10,000 BTC per day trading volume that turns into 40 BTC in trade fees per day...

For 1 year (365 days) that is 14600 BTC. That would be their entire yearly profit from fees.

They lost 18000+ BTC in one fell swoop.

Not sure if I would think they have enough reserves in profit even if it were 20,000 btc per day trade volume (which is way over estimating).

The past 365 days of bitstamp trading daily volumes/price.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Looks like 10k BTC per day is a nice reasonable number to assume is their average daily volume traded.

Based on those numbers I do not believe they have enough to cover said losses in full. Remember now they have expenses over that year.

You are overlooking old accounts, which probably make up a good portion of reserves.  For example people who deposits $10 worth of BTC, like 3 years ago and forgot the account even exists.

They could probably do a cash grab on those accounts (ie people who haven't logged in for 3 years) and make up a large amount of their losses, without anyone being the wiser.  Just locked out all those accounts, and if someone happens to try to login just give them the run around and "no record of your account"....sure it's shit; but it beats going bankrupt or giving everyone a haircut (and going bankrupt in the future).

Or claiming that everyone deposits after their January 6th warning to old addresses were "lost' even if they weren't....basically going through the couch cushions they could probably scrape together 10% of reserves.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
They could just do like chinese exchanges: Let clients pay it with a hair cut  Cool

Or they could operate using fractional reserve method, a 90% reserve is still much much better than any banks which only have 10% of client money at hand
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 501
Where are the europeans converting their BTC to fiat these days? BTC-E seems to have very big fees for wire transfer withdraw.


Try it on bitcoin.de
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
Where are the europeans converting their BTC to fiat these days? BTC-E seems to have very big fees for wire transfer withdraw.
legendary
Activity: 889
Merit: 1000
same bs as with gox including the sorry for the inconvinence. No reason for them not to allow withdrawls as deposit addresses comprimised they are broke and looking for a way to parachutte out  like gox.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
Looks like 10k BTC per day is a nice reasonable number to assume is their average daily volume traded.

Based on those numbers I do not believe they have enough to cover said losses in full. Remember now they have expenses over that year.

For most financial companies holding other people's money, losing 5-10% of assets under management pretty much guarantees insolvency. $5 million in operating cash is probably more than what a typical $1 billion hedge fund would have.

Do they have insurance?

of course they don't. who will insure them? they are not regulated Smiley

I think their "boss", DAN MOREHEAD will give them money.
donator
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1012
Looks like 10k BTC per day is a nice reasonable number to assume is their average daily volume traded.

Based on those numbers I do not believe they have enough to cover said losses in full. Remember now they have expenses over that year.

For most financial companies holding other people's money, losing 5-10% of assets under management pretty much guarantees insolvency. $5 million in operating cash is probably more than what a typical $1 billion hedge fund would have.

Do they have insurance?
newbie
Activity: 38
Merit: 0
The btc price has been hovering  in the 270-276s. It's as if the bitcoin world is at a standstill and is waiting for bitstamp to come alive again. Or maybe it's the calm before the storm...
legendary
Activity: 889
Merit: 1000
Another exchange that has betrayed the trust of their customers.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
www.CloudThink.IO
The 19000 BTC isn't even half of the volume that was traded per day the last couple of days. It is a big hit but i suppose it is recoverable.

I'm more worried about the wording in the statement where it states:
Quote
We are working to transfer a secure backup of the Bitstamp site onto a new safe environment and will be bringing this online in the coming days. Customers can stay informed via updates on our website, on Twitter (@Bitstamp) and through Bitstamp customer support at [email protected]."

I don't think it should take days to copy and check their environment, why would it take this long?

And updates haven't been provided since this morning on either Twitter or their website. No source for the last statement on Coindesk. I'm worried we won't hear anything for a few days now. And that reminds me of Gox...


The big question is will they allow a run on Bitcoin and fiat withdraws?

Anyone who has a large sum trapped there would likely want out ASAP.

If they allow this and bite the bullet I will give them credit where it is due. Otherwise they are insolvent.
I don't think it would be wise to allow trading to start back up until they are ready to start processing withdrawals again. One could speculate that the reason the price of bitcoin has not fallen since bitstamp announce they suspended service is because they have been trying to buy up as much bitcoin as possible in order to have a 100% reserve level
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
So you are assuming they have $5million laying around of their own funds to do this?

I doubt it.
That, indeed, is the problem. They have to come up with $5 million to reopen.

They can't reopen without the money. If and when they allow withdrawals again, everybody is going to take their money and Bitcoins out. If they try to pull some of the stunts Gox pulled about stalling withdrawals, this thing will come unglued even faster.

Bitstamp is a UK company. UK bankruptcy laws are much more pro-creditor than US or Japan bankruptcy laws. As soon as a company owes you money and isn't paying its debts, you can file a "statutory demand"  The company has only 21 days to pay before you get to go to court to have them forced into liquidation.

Any creditor of Bitstamp can do this. Tomorrow morning, if they want.

There's also a UK court procedure for a "money claim", for amounts up to £100,000. This is only available if you have an address in the UK. That can be done on-line. You have to send a letter demanding payment first, but you only have to wait 14 days before filing a money claim.

Don't wait. That didn't work out with Mt. Gox.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that information.

Good to see the UK have much better laws for the consumers/customer's benefit in place.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
So you are assuming they have $5million laying around of their own funds to do this?

I doubt it.
That, indeed, is the problem. They have to come up with $5 million to reopen.

They can't reopen without the money. If and when they allow withdrawals again, everybody is going to take their money and Bitcoins out. If they try to pull some of the stunts Gox pulled about stalling withdrawals, this thing will come unglued even faster.

Bitstamp is a UK company. UK bankruptcy laws are much more pro-creditor than US or Japan bankruptcy laws. As soon as a company owes you money and isn't paying its debts, you can file a "statutory demand"  The company has only 21 days to pay before you get to go to court to have them forced into liquidation.

Any creditor of Bitstamp can do this. Tomorrow morning, if they want.

There's also a UK court procedure for a "money claim", for amounts up to £100,000. This is only available if you have an address in the UK. That can be done on-line. You have to send a letter demanding payment first, but you only have to wait 14 days before filing a money claim.

Don't wait. That didn't work out with Mt. Gox.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
If they indeed lost ~ 19,000 BTC, they're seriously fucked. There's no way they have enough own reserves to cover it. And I doubt they have insurance covering such event.


They can buy 19k btc with the fiat value , it is not an impossible thing to do....  (and maybe the price will raise a little).

So you are assuming they have $5million laying around of their own funds to do this?

I doubt it.

Let's assume that Bitstamp was audited by Pantera in March 2014 before they invested $10M venture capital into the company.  Considering this was done shortly after the MTGOX debacle, I think it's safe to assume anyone dropping a $10M investment into a bitcoin exchange requested a verified and substantial financial audit of the company.

If they have been running a legitimate 100%+ reserve since that investment was made, they can likely weather the storm.

Time will tell.

Assuming they had a 10,000 BTC per day trading volume that turns into 40 BTC in trade fees per day...

For 1 year (365 days) that is 14600 BTC. That would be their entire yearly profit from fees.

They lost 18000+ BTC in one fell swoop.

Not sure if I would think they have enough reserves in profit even if it were 20,000 btc per day trade volume (which is way over estimating).

The past 365 days of bitstamp trading daily volumes/price.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Looks like 10k BTC per day is a nice reasonable number to assume is their average daily volume traded.

Based on those numbers I do not believe they have enough to cover said losses in full. Remember now they have expenses over that year.
full member
Activity: 139
Merit: 100
Owner@ CryptoFundingTracker.com
If they indeed lost ~ 19,000 BTC, they're seriously fucked. There's no way they have enough own reserves to cover it. And I doubt they have insurance covering such event.


They can buy 19k btc with the fiat value , it is not an impossible thing to do....  (and maybe the price will raise a little).

So you are assuming they have $5million laying around of their own funds to do this?

I doubt it.

Let's assume that Bitstamp was audited by Pantera in March 2014 before they invested $10M venture capital into the company.  Considering this was done shortly after the MTGOX debacle, I think it's safe to assume anyone dropping a $10M investment into a bitcoin exchange requested a verified and substantial financial audit of the company.

If they have been running a legitimate 100%+ reserve since that investment was made, they can likely weather the storm.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1001
I hope they come back soon
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 658
rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt
Goddamnit, not again.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
If they indeed lost ~ 19,000 BTC, they're seriously fucked. There's no way they have enough own reserves to cover it. And I doubt they have insurance covering such event.


They can buy 19k btc with the fiat value , it is not an impossible thing to do....  (and maybe the price will raise a little).

So you are assuming they have $5million laying around of their own funds to do this?

I doubt it.
full member
Activity: 183
Merit: 100

I don't think Bitstamp is going to disappear overnight like Mt. Gox. They've got a lot to lose.

Quote
The company has generally been respected within the bitcoin community. In May 2014 it passed a proof-of-bitcoin-reserves audit overseen by BitcoinJ developer Mike Hearn, and in June it beat other bitcoin companies to win the Europas' Best Virtual Currency Startup Award.

A lesson learned from the whole Mt.Gox debacle is that they need to keep communicating. This doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment. I'm still wondering where that statement on coindesk came from. It isn't on their website or twitter. So how would customers know (apart from reading coindesk).

Having said that I don't think they'll go bust because of this. I've been using them since long before Mt.Gox started to slide and they've proven to be a reputable exchange.


Coindesk are as bad as mainstream media channels these days and had at least one outright BS article lately, this ones pushing ripple so wouldn't be surprised if there's FUD in there. Getting hard to get good news these days, this forums spammed by astroturfers and there's a lot of FUD on the popular news channels, especially the forex coverage. Hope when they've something to say its something good but the biggest scumbags on the planet are fighting back now so the only thing certain is coins you have the keys for.

what good news do you want? 50% fake transactions. the big exchangers are manipulating the price along with the Bitcoin Foundation, the exchangers are earning millions when the Bitcoin price is going down....this is the Bitcoin world; full of speculators and this how it will be from now on...I am not sure for how long...
there are not too many NEW fouls to "invest" Smiley

Exchangers earn very good on short-term price movements, but in the long-term downtrend "buy positions" secure only 70%-80% from the supply, in reality it' a sluggish bloodsucking.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004

I don't think Bitstamp is going to disappear overnight like Mt. Gox. They've got a lot to lose.

Quote
The company has generally been respected within the bitcoin community. In May 2014 it passed a proof-of-bitcoin-reserves audit overseen by BitcoinJ developer Mike Hearn, and in June it beat other bitcoin companies to win the Europas' Best Virtual Currency Startup Award.

A lesson learned from the whole Mt.Gox debacle is that they need to keep communicating. This doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment. I'm still wondering where that statement on coindesk came from. It isn't on their website or twitter. So how would customers know (apart from reading coindesk).

Having said that I don't think they'll go bust because of this. I've been using them since long before Mt.Gox started to slide and they've proven to be a reputable exchange.


Coindesk are as bad as mainstream media channels these days and had at least one outright BS article lately, this ones pushing ripple so wouldn't be surprised if there's FUD in there. Getting hard to get good news these days, this forums spammed by astroturfers and there's a lot of FUD on the popular news channels, especially the forex coverage. Hope when they've something to say its something good but the biggest scumbags on the planet are fighting back now so the only thing certain is coins you have the keys for.

what good news do you want? 50% fake transactions. the big exchangers are manipulating the price along with the Bitcoin Foundation, the exchangers are earning millions when the Bitcoin price is going down....this is the Bitcoin world; full of speculators and this how it will be from now on...I am not sure for how long...
there are not too many NEW fouls to "invest" Smiley
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