Topic: bitZino - Bitcoin Casino - Blackjack, Roulette, 3 Card Poker, Slots and more! - page 32. (Read 82361 times)

You can copy/paste the "final shuffle" string from the 'provably fair' sub-window for individual hands - then we can see how the cards ran if we know all the decisions you made.

Would be interesting if you posted username and then we could see what actually happened. Though I doubt the operator would share without permission. Anyway losing 8 times in a row isn't uncommon, ask martingale betters And dealer drew a 19? Unpossible. l2odds.

I logged on last night to play a blackjack session and lost 8 out of my first 10 hands. Dealer had about 4 blackjacks in that time. Even when starting with a 5 or 6 total, the dealer managed to outdraw me while I held 19 or 20. Frustrated, I decided to double my bet and then typed "fuck you!" in the client seed. Well, I was dealt 2-2 vs dealer showing a 5 or 6 or some weak ass bust card. I kept splitting - every time it was a 2-2 until I had 4 hands in total. My last hand was also 2-2 but I wasn't allowed to split anymore. Of the 4 hands, my strongest one was 17.

The dealer drew up to 19 and beat everything I had.

Nice game you got there.

Woot! I'm glad you could follow along with my explanation


I would love it if you did this!


Thanks for clarifying, Dooglus!

We really should have these rules explicitly stated though. I'll add them to the rules dropdown.

Incidentally, if you're looking for (barely) beatable blackjack, check out strikesapphire.com.  They used to offer 65-75% penetration, but now it's much lower.  They do allow a huge range of bets though, from $0.10 up to $5.00 - a 50x spread.

Just don't win too much, or they'll make up lies about you and ban you.  And your 'imaginary' girlfriend. 

They use 8 decks and shuffle before every hand.

You can see that 8 decks are used by opening up the 'provably fair' sub-window and counting the length of the "final shuffle" string.  Reading the "what is this?" link in the bottom right corner of that sub-window makes it clear that they shuffle before dealing every hand.

How often you reshuffle and how many decks you use on Blackjack?

The rules does not state it!!!

I've verified a few of the hands I've played, and they've all checked out.  I can't say they're all legit without checking them all, but I have a good feeling about the site.  I'm about 7 BTC down overall I think.

Dooglus - I for one would appreciate such a site. If you refer to my post a few above this one, one of the ways that I really "got" what a SHA256 function did was when I went to an online calculator and hashed a few text strings. I'd do things like enter a lengthy string and then make a minor change, like changing 1 letter from upper to lowercase, or adding a space at the end and comparing the resulting hashes. So that was my learning process for the utility of Sha256.

That said, if you say Bitzino's system is legit, that's good enough for me to play there, though I'd still visit a site like you described just because I like learning stuff and experimenting.

Would it have helped if there was a site which walked you through the process step by step?  I'm thinking of making such a thing.  Something more automatic than having to visit all those different sites to do it manually, but less automatic than the site bitZino provides which shows a few progress bars and says "yep, it's fine".

I'm not sure if that would be useful.  Maybe it's more convincing for people like your friend to go through the steps "manually" for themselves.

Either way, having a neutral 3rd party like myself provide a verification site is likely more convincing than having bitZino verify their own data...

Thanks  so much, this is EXACTLY   what I/we were  looking for!

You have officially SILENCED  my sceptic friend!  Peace and quiet at last!! Good Luck making great   waves in the gambling word...and please do be careful with your  COLD STORED COINS!!!

Here's a blog post mentioning bitZino:

  http://calvinayre.com/2012/09/03/business/bitzino-touts-provably-fair-games-but-can-bitcoin-only-casinos-succeed/

This is a great idea! As you mentioned, Dooglus did write a python script which verifies the secret and outputs the final shuffle of the deck given the Hash(secret), secret and the client_seed. Additionally, we have a javascript hand verifier located at https://bitzino.com/about/fair. If you are inclined to take a deeper look at the code for our verifier, you can view the source of that page and see the javascript verifier - it's just 100 lines of well-commented code.

However, I understand that you may want to verify on your own without relying on having coding expertise or relying on code that is hosted on our own website. To that end, I've outlined the steps to do this below: (unfortunately, there will be just a little bit of "coding", but it's really just copying and pasting certain commands into a javascript console. This is necessary because there isn't an online implementation that I could find of the Fisher-Yates shuffle algorithm)

Step 1: Verify the Hash(secret) is derived from the secret

After playing a hand of any game at bitzino, go to http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/sha256.html, and copy and paste the Secret in to the box. Click on the "Generate Hash" button, and verify that the hash generated on that website matches the Hash(secret) you see on bitzino.

Step 2: Generate the seed from the client_seed and the server_seed

While still on the same website, copy and paste the client_seed into the box, followed directly by the server_seed (the server_seed is part of the Secret). E.g, if the client_seed is "ABC", and the server seed is "123", the box should have "ABC123" in it. (Also, make sure you're copying the client_seed from "Last hand" on bitZino, not from the "Next hand"). Click on the "Generate Hash" button. Now, keep this page open, because we will be using this Hash later.

Step 3: Set up a javascript console with the Mersenne Twister function

Go to http://jsconsole.com. This is a javascript console, and it's where we'll be completing all of the following steps.

Copy and paste all of the code from https://bitzino.com/static/MersenneTwister19937.js into the javascript console. This will initialize the Mersenne Twister function which will be used later on.

If you'd like to verify that the above code is indeed a pristine copy of the Mersenne Twister, you can download the original zip file from http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/VERSIONS/JAVASCRIPT/java-script.html

Step 4: Seed the random number generator

Type the following commands into the jsconsole:


Note that the first line of code isn't actually , you should replace that part with the value you got from step 2.

Step 5: Set up the initial_shuffle

Create a variable in the jsconsole that is equal to the initial_shuffle from bitzino. (The initial_shuffle is part of the Secret).


Step 6: Reshuffle the deck using the Mersenne Twister RNG, and the Fisher-Yates shuffling algorithm

Copy this code into the jsconsole:


At this point, the jsconsole will spit out a value that should be identical to bitZino's final_shuffle.

Final thoughts

I really wish there were an online Fisher-Yates/Mersenne Twister card shuffler, so that every step in this process would be as easy as step 1. If anyone does know of one, please let me know so that I can make this process easier! I also recognize that you are still depending on a lot of code that is just copied directly from me, but I think the fact that it's posted here publicly should show that it is honest, and does what it says it does.

I hope this helps!

This may be a bit "back to basics" for this thread, but I am going to give it a shot,and see what responses I get:

I am trying to TEST/SHOW bitZino to be Provably Fair to myself and a friend.

So, without programming, and using available third-party (online) tools, how can I CHECK the sequence of shuffles, and how they get manipulated by the player's secret re-hashing (cutting) of the deck.

Is this even possible?

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I saw the python script, but I cannot run that

I am thinking along the lines of taking your first shuffle, hashing it somewhere like:

http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/sha256.html

getting a hash result which I (myself) manually or using some other tool like excel or something to do whatever it is that you do to "cut" the deck... and then finding the sequence of cards that you dealt, and had the same SHA256 hash as what is shown as "proof"

And then, I would like to hash the final sequence using the above site, or some other one that is not connected to you, but I can easily access without programming.

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I hope this is not too complicated.  I just want to be able to walk-through, and VERIFY that which you claim is "Provably Fair"

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I do believe you, but can you also show me how I can do the checking MYSELF!? Thanks. 

We've just pushed another round of changes. These are mostly minor, but I wanted to confirm all the issues you brought up that were addressed:

- The homepage now always goes to the previously played game.
- We handle internet failure more gracefully, by adding a timeout to our ajax calls and displaying an alert.
- Fixed the slightly wonky layout of the Roulette table in Chromium (that was due to CSS rounding issues)


Sounds good! We've already made some progress here, because we were working on Let it Ride, and were considering adding the 3 card poker bets to it. We're focusing on adding craps next, but we'll work on 3 card poker after that!

I don't think you are.  But +1

Request: 3 card poker. Surprised I am the first.

Dooglus, thanks for the explanation. I found it very helpful.

Received thanks!  I will give it back shortly

Welcome to the site! I sent you a quarter BTC to thank you for all the feedback you've been providing


Cool, glad you like it! Our system typically sends withdrawals instantly. The main reason for a short delay is if you have unconfirmed transactions. We require 2 confirmations on all your deposits before sending the withdrawal.


Nice, I'm glad the UI improvements helped

HTML5 is great, because it typically just works on mobile web browsers. We do make sure to test out everything on mobile browsers as well, just to make sure it's all working well. We may eventually do native apps in the future, but for now we are just focusing on a good HTML5 experience.


Good point. We want to make sure not to make the interface too cluttered, but this would probably be useful.


Thanks! This is really exciting. Our first major news coverage!

Thanks as well for the feedback on what you find difficult to understand about the provably fair system. I am definitely aware the education around this is one of our bigger hurdles here, so hearing directly from you what concepts you don't understand is definitely very helpful!

We tried to provide a simple explanation on our website, and a more in-depth explanation on our tech blog, but perhaps our simple explanation isn't simple enough. We'll definitely take your suggestions, and probably rewrite parts of the "simple" explanation.