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Topic: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 252. (Read 787053 times)

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  


this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.




could be.  I don't know that this is the time limiter on this project however.

From that standpoint, as long as we're waiting for things to get built that should have been built 2 months ago, can I suggest we install a beer tap on these things.    The cold beer can be run through the units and used to cool the chips when you're overclocking in order to frantically try to recover your money spent on these.

Of course we know that overclocking, while possible, voids your warranty, so don't do that.  And no-one should expect to get their money back, as this is not a financial services company.  And don't ask for a refund.  Well you can, but you might or might not get it, as we can't figure that out over the course of a month or more.

With this liquor enabled miner at least the end user can get a buzz on while watching their money go down the drain and pondering how a company that names it's currency producing products 'Prospero', can then turn around and tell people they shouldn't expect to prosper from them.

Maybe we should call it Sinkhole at this point.  Truth in advertising and all that good stuff.




their whole update just reads like;

'f*ck you - we have your money, what you going to do about it?'
gotta feel for the guys n gals who put their money into this, whether they get their miners in the end or not is actually irrelevant now.
newbie
Activity: 54
Merit: 0
Wait, so 1400W for 1200-1400Ghash ? (1/2 of a prospero X3)

Isn't that your original design ? Shouldn't the new design be 1400W for the 2.4Ghash (1 full prospero, 0.6W/Ghs) as it was stated in the mail).


sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly?  


this would be a great delaying tactic if there were never to be any product in the first place.
at THIS point in time. just saying.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.

Embedding the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi into your own hardware is not a big deal any more.  It hasn't been for some time, only now it's a whole lot cheaper thanks to the introduction, and success of the Pi.  The extra effort just goes to show BA are in this for the long haul.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
While I'm appreciative of the new level of communication, it is now clear that BA has bitten off WAY more than they can chew.  Redesigning a control board when a RasPi and BeagleBone Black are readily available?  How will this help you deliver more quickly? 

Refund requested from Minersource.  Fingers crossed.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Here is what I gathered and questions I have...
-Tape Out has not happened and is being delayed by about a day and a half?
Yes.

Quote
-All the previous board designs and case designs, and heatsink designs, and fan designs, and power supply designs, and internal arrangement designs were wrong and are being changed.
We take the extra time to make them better. We could have delivered a working version by now but we decided not to sleep on it.

Quote
-Boards will be able to handle extreme overclocking, but we will have to supply our own power supplies (I believe we should be given upgraded power supplies as part of the compensation package so that we can run overclocked and have a chance to make positive ROI, but thats just me)

No, the PSU has been upgraded as well. We expect that 1400watt running at 80% load (for maximum efficiency) for 10 minions to yield 1200-1400 Ghash.


Quote
Questions?Huh
-Will we get a special update in 36 hours when tape out actually happens?
yes

Quote
-What is this "extra feature" prospero?  Is this a different line of chips?  If so, why is engineering time being diverted to this and not to getting your original line completed?  What are the "special features"? 
It's software. Features provided by different team of engineers. We will not announce what it does until delivery.

Quote
Will Batch 1 be given free upgrades to this "special chip" for having to wait? 
What special chip?

Quote
-For the layman, what does it mean that you synthesised the FPGA LTC code?  Will these be dual miners now?  Or is this a different product line, which again reverts to why is engineering time being spent on other things when you are delayed your customers by over 2 months?
Different product, different engineers, no preorders.

Quote
-Is our warranty voided if we overclock the prospero chip? 
If you change the voltage over specs, yes.
If overclocked more than our specs, yes.

Quote
For batch 1 people, overclocking seems like the only way to make a positive ROI (or at least have a better chance at it), can we get warrenty for overclocking our machines?  And how about upgraded PSU's that can handle overclocking?
We sell and manufacture hardware. We cannot advice you on your ROI or any other finance/investment issues. A chip will do as much as it has been designed for, not more. We are unable to offer warranty if someone burns their chips while on steroids.

hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.

Sorry, misunderstood the phrasing.  I'm guessing this isn't your words, so it can be taken out of context to mean the miners themselves will be beta.

Usually in the tech world, beta means a few months away from production.  Hoping you and BA pull through for us.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Owner, Minersource.net
Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???

Do you see the "extra features" part? Not the miners themselves, but the extra features will be in beta.
hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 783
better everyday ♥
Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.

A beta version by May 1st?  So does that mean you're not shipping finished products by May like promised???
full member
Activity: 221
Merit: 100
What does this mean?

10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Owner, Minersource.net
Latest UPDATE from BA

Progress update - 20 Feb 2014
1.Following Verisilicon’s tapeout final review meeting it was decided that they need to update the IO and metal according to Analog IO team requirement. VeriSilicon needs additional 36 hours to extract the final specification of GDS and run STA. At the same time FE needs to run POSTSim based on the final Netlist. As this is a 100 million gate design it requires intensive CPU support. VeriSilicon agreed to work over the weekend to maintain our working schedule and are confident that the files will be sent to the factory in 36 hours.
2.We finished the hash board for X1. We will review and send to the factory tomorrow. The board was designed for a maximum of 160A (exceeding the 88A @ 0.85V required).
3.Each X3 module will use 5 hashboards and will have 2 Minion ASICs. This solution was chosen to support the high current (up to 33 Amperes @ 12V) required by the power chips. Another issue which we had to overcome was the fact that the smaller connectors already available on the market were either too big or had too few pins to support a single ASIC hash board 35mm wide. We are in the process of designing 2 different boards for the X3 hashboard: 2 x 160A and 2 x 200A to support extreme overclocking. The final decision of which PCB we will use will be taken after we’ve tested the real silicon.
4.We have finished the control board for X1 & X3 and will send it tomorrow to the factory. 3 months ago we decided against using Raspberry PI or Beagle Bone. RPI proved too unreliable during extensive usage and none of them would satisfy our requirements. We’ve opted instead to design our own board based on ARM chip. This task was equivalent of designing a whole new Raspberry PI and was major design work. We are convinced that our customer will benefit the extra features.
5.We have entrusted AMKOR for packaging the Minion. We had several meetings last week in order to choose the best package and have decided to go with Stiffener FCBGA instead of Lidded FCBGA as previously announced; this package provides better cooling performance and will have extra capacitors on the substrate.
6.We’ve maintained a very busy meetings schedule with VeriSilicon to clarify the PO and packaging.
7.Following the feedback of our case designers we have hold a meeting with the PSU factory and agreed:
a.To shorten the PSU for the X1 with 10mm in order to get closer to our 200x200x70mm case target.
b.To reduce the height of the X3 PSU by 20mm in order to be able put the Ethernet connector in the back of the case.
8.We have increased the heatsink fins thickness to 0.5mm, asked the factory to produce 2 samples (1.8mm spacing and 2mm spacing).
9.We have met with potential resellers but this cannot go on. We receive so many meetings requests and unfortunately we will have no option but to decline them as our management team has more pressing issues to deal with currently; our commitment is with our existing customers and ensuring the sold products are delivered. We will review this process at later stage.
10.Two months ago we have decided to add up extra features for Prospero products and we’re developing them. The project is on schedule and we aim to have a beta version by 1st of May.
11.We have synthesised our FPGA LTC code and it is mining correctly with 4 cores.
12.Our 1st line customer support team are struggling with the volume of messages posted by our customers. We have sent a representative to Philippines for few days for further training. The initial feedback is encouraging, the current procedures are currently under review and we expect improvements soon.
13.The number of the messages on the forum is overwhelming and we are not in the position to address all of it. Despite all of our efforts we’ll only be able to answer only a proportion
14.We have completed the design and manufacture of the banners for the Texax Bitcoin Conference. http://texasbitcoinconference.com/ . This announcement confirms that we will be present there; Minersource, Our reseller from USA, will represent us.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
quiet in here......
member
Activity: 110
Merit: 10
So they are mining at around 15TH/s as we speak. What are they using to mine? Bitfurries? And why isn't that mining power being allocated to their customers?

wouldn't surprise me at all.   I asked early on in this debacle if they were mining for themselves and got the BA cricket choir response.   they manufacture mining equipment, so it seems pretty logical that there's something hashing away.

if it is true and this this is going straight into their pockets while their customers are sinking fast I wouldn't be shocked one bit.  based on their actions to date I have little little doubt that they do not give a damn about their customers.


they're still showing bitfuries as in stock:  https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/40ghash-16x-bitfury-hashing-board.html


see this topic on their forum, started Jan 17, where a customer is asking why his delivery date has been changed to May:

http://ecointalk.net/topic/422-my-order-delivery-date-has-changed-to-may-why/


BA didn't actually announce this delay until when, the 29th I think, when they sent out that official e-mail.  when did they really know there was going to be a delay, I have to wonder.  They were still booking orders right through that Jan 29 date, as far as I know, without letting prospective customers know of any potential issues whatsoever, which, unless that thread above was just some odd coincidence, they absolutely knew about while still feeding their customers and prospective customers the BS song and dance.

we're on track, or a little ahead, last I heard.  blah, blah, blah.  we're still taking orders for batch 2.  blah, blah, blah.  look, here's a new rendering.  blah, blah, blah.  we're in this for the long term.  blah, blah, blah.    we care about our customers.  blah, blah, blah.   


and to this day still no clear statement on refunds.  blah, blah, blech.

But, give credit where credit is due, for they have recognizing a troll when they see one down to a science, deleting every one of my posts in this thread, albeit they're a tad behind, probably waiting till their last Bucharestica is the Bestica hookah session wears off. (full disclosure: while seeking humor for the latter part of that sentence, I just learnt that Romania also legalized the smoking of a certain plant, whereupon Matt, when he reads this, will go, "Wait, what! Hehehe!")
"Romania also legalized the smoking of a certain plant" That is great, if that is true, maybe the best news in this thread!
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1001
I don't know whether to post this, sorry if it seems rude, but I feel I must say it as a potential customer...

Why can't you use your talents to develop something using the ASIC platform? I for one am waiting for the dust to settle and will be looking to buy into ASIC technology once there are units on warehouse shelves. I am not particularly interested in massive profits, just a little profit plus the satisfaction of mining for the resilience of the network. I am under the impression that the Avalon's custom ASIC chips are/will be available in bulk to people such as yourselves, and the developers specifically want this technology to be distributed.

The issue of electricity cost vs. mining revenue will be making new investment into FPGAs too risky for me, sorry Sad

We are looking into developing an ASIC but we won't sell them until we have a working product.

Power consumption is not such a big issue for FPGA. They use only a little bit more than ASIC.


As many times as I've read similar, Roger Ver should erect a billboard depicting such verbiage.

You guys want to see an amazing graph?: https://blockchain.info/charts/received-per-day?address=1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7

It stems from one of Black Arrow's wallet address: https://blockchain.info/address/1JTNXgcVCMXhQrLEE9XW71fQjJN1uQpWf7 They better hope that that's not their only wallet, otherwise they're in a heap of trouble.

This is how I found it: http://web.archive.org/web/20130428000608/http://www.cardreaderfactory.com/shop/lancelot.html

First deposit was on Oct. 19, 2012, and currently has $78,472.50 USD in it for anybody seeking a refund from Black Arrow. And, if that's not enough, you'll soon learn once you visit the address above that Black Arrow is garnering 5 BTC every two days via mining income while its investomers are in a holding pattern till May. Doing some quick math, that'll be 5 X 30 X 600 = ~$90,000 USD he'll receive during the next 60 days, while his investomers will only be earning (more quick math, so please check my work) 0 X 0 X 600 X (# of rigs ordered) = 0 during the same timeframe.

Now, I'm no MENSA dude, but to me the investomer's ROI is not looking too good at this penning, while Black Arrow is swimming in bitcoins, all the while checking his margins to see if he could honor any refunds. Perhaps, it's just some Romanian thing, and I'm simply a fuckin' idiot wasting my life away on this here laptop living in my dead mother's van down by the up-the-creek-sans-a-paddle.

~TMIBTCITW

Welcome back Phin  Grin Cool
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
the thot plickens.
newbie
Activity: 32
Merit: 0
I would also like an update on where we are at with hiring that dedicated PR person?  Almost every question I have asked has been ignored in the last couple of weeks, so I pose the refund question again...

Nostradamus (ya really!) has predicted that the reply (if there ever is one) is one of the following:

a) The PR guy has taken sick and/or declined the job offer
b) The PR guy is away celebrating the Schamayan New Year
c) The PR guy has been hired and is in training, which will take a few daeeks (great stalling option)
d) The PR guy is actually a PR girl

Please note that the option that a PR person has or will not be hired is not available.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I decided to test market opinion of BA and see how the market currently views the price and image of BA by listing one of my units for sell in the good section.  I have very good rep and believe that anyone would have full confidence that I would hold up my end of a deal, so any offers would be considered solely market view of BA.  After more than 24 hours I have not had a single offer or inquiry on my offer.  I even included the compensation package as part of the deal, and still no one seems to want it.  I did not put a price up, but instead asked for offers for my device.  So what does this tell us?  Well I will let everyone form their own opinion, but I have come up with 2 options...
1) There is no market for the BA device, which is sad because we are still over 2 months away from it being launched or,
2) No one has faith that BA will deliver.
In either case I would say the outcome is not good, so I reiterate my question, how are refunds going to be handled?

I don't read the Goods section, but what are you selling?  If it's an X-1, and you can get Black Arrow to transfer it to me, then I would be interested.  I can't afford an X-3 right now though.

Its actually an X-3, but I have an X-1, time to find out what its worth.  Make me an offer on it...

I imagine I could offer you the amount that you paid in BTC for it originally.  If you bought it in November, I imagine it would have been about 3.5 bitcoins.  Of course I don't know when you bought it.  Do you think that's a fair price?

Don't forget, there's a 0% quadruple-vetted reseller fee that I'm entitled to due to bringing you two together.


... when it ships  Cheesy
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
I decided to test market opinion of BA and see how the market currently views the price and image of BA by listing one of my units for sell in the good section.  I have very good rep and believe that anyone would have full confidence that I would hold up my end of a deal, so any offers would be considered solely market view of BA.  After more than 24 hours I have not had a single offer or inquiry on my offer.  I even included the compensation package as part of the deal, and still no one seems to want it.  I did not put a price up, but instead asked for offers for my device.  So what does this tell us?  Well I will let everyone form their own opinion, but I have come up with 2 options...
1) There is no market for the BA device, which is sad because we are still over 2 months away from it being launched or,
2) No one has faith that BA will deliver.
In either case I would say the outcome is not good, so I reiterate my question, how are refunds going to be handled?

I don't read the Goods section, but what are you selling?  If it's an X-1, and you can get Black Arrow to transfer it to me, then I would be interested.  I can't afford an X-3 right now though.

Its actually an X-3, but I have an X-1, time to find out what its worth.  Make me an offer on it...

I imagine I could offer you the amount that you paid in BTC for it originally.  If you bought it in November, I imagine it would have been about 3.5 0.35 bitcoins.  Of course I don't know when you bought it.  Do you think that's a fair price?

EDIT: Typo above.  3.5 should have been 0.35 bitcoins.
member
Activity: 68
Merit: 10
I decided to test market opinion of BA and see how the market currently views the price and image of BA by listing one of my units for sell in the good section.  I have very good rep and believe that anyone would have full confidence that I would hold up my end of a deal, so any offers would be considered solely market view of BA.  After more than 24 hours I have not had a single offer or inquiry on my offer.  I even included the compensation package as part of the deal, and still no one seems to want it.  I did not put a price up, but instead asked for offers for my device.  So what does this tell us?  Well I will let everyone form their own opinion, but I have come up with 2 options...
1) There is no market for the BA device, which is sad because we are still over 2 months away from it being launched or,
2) No one has faith that BA will deliver.
In either case I would say the outcome is not good, so I reiterate my question, how are refunds going to be handled?

I don't read the Goods section, but what are you selling?  If it's an X-1, and you can get Black Arrow to transfer it to me, then I would be interested.  I can't afford an X-3 right now though.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1006
Hi guys, does anyone know how to request a refund from Minersource.com?

Send them an email.

Then wait for the reply from "Starter Kit" Carson.



a week and so later....

still no reply.

ha.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
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