Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 264.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

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Quote from: jimmothy on February 10, 2014, 06:09:51 PM

The problem is not accounting for delays in calculation. If you think you can preorder an asic then cancel your order when its no longer profitable(you think) then you should NOT be preordering an asic in the first place.

WRONG. A pre-order purchase is a contract. BA made a commitment to deliver on a specified date. If they cannot meet that date, their customers deserve the right to cancel that contract due to BA's failure to deliver. Especially in the US, it is the law.

Unacceptable

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1001

Quote from: jimmothy on February 10, 2014, 06:09:51 PM

Quote from: Pentax on February 10, 2014, 05:57:34 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on February 10, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

In all seriousness you can't hold BA accountable for not guaranteeing a profit (according to your calculations which are 99% wrong).

You can however hold them accountable to deliver hardware that meets advertised specs. Delays are unfortunate but not uncommon (Historically just about every asic manufacturer has experienced delays).

they can be held accountable for not delivering on time. people made their buying decisions based on the timetable set out. it was as much a factor, if not more, as the price of the unit.

Who buys this thing in November/December for batch 1 if they're going to get it in May, or later, but could instead order from Cointerra, who is already shipping, and get their unit in Feb/March? Pretty much no-one is my guess.

the fact that others have been late is irrelevant. manufacturers need to keep up their end of the bargain, and that includes on time delivery for a time critical application, or be held accountable for losses suffered as a result of their own failure.

There is a huge difference between guaranteeing a shipment date and an estimate. Obviously for any company to maximize orders they would give the most optimistic estimation.

The problem is not accounting for delays in calculation. If you think you can preorder an asic then cancel your order when its no longer profitable(you think) then you should NOT be preordering an asic in the first place.

You would make a FANTASTIC BFL customer Grin

TinkerTom

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: blackarrow on February 10, 2014, 12:55:34 AM

Tapeout is on 20 Feb 2014.

Weekly update will be on Wednesday / Thursday when our new "press officer" arrives here.

There we go, that's a great start. It really doesn't have to be a lot more complicated than that. People wanting answers about bizarre business relationships don't need to be addressed every week, just a short blurb like that and then some pics once you have something to take pics of.

I would suggest picking one authoritative location for your updates and referencing it from here and ecointalk. (Is there a Black Arrow blog?) Make a new thread and restrict posts to yourself so we can easily keep up. We can discuss them elsewhere (ad nauseum).

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: Pentax on February 10, 2014, 05:57:34 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on February 10, 2014, 05:30:56 PM

In all seriousness you can't hold BA accountable for not guaranteeing a profit (according to your calculations which are 99% wrong).

You can however hold them accountable to deliver hardware that meets advertised specs. Delays are unfortunate but not uncommon (Historically just about every asic manufacturer has experienced delays).

they can be held accountable for not delivering on time. people made their buying decisions based on the timetable set out. it was as much a factor, if not more, as the price of the unit.

Who buys this thing in November/December for batch 1 if they're going to get it in May, or later, but could instead order from Cointerra, who is already shipping, and get their unit in Feb/March? Pretty much no-one is my guess.

the fact that others have been late is irrelevant. manufacturers need to keep up their end of the bargain, and that includes on time delivery for a time critical application, or be held accountable for losses suffered as a result of their own failure.

There is a huge difference between guaranteeing a shipment date and an estimate. Obviously for any company to maximize orders they would give the most optimistic estimation.

The problem is not accounting for delays in calculation. If you think you can preorder an asic then cancel your order when its no longer profitable(you think) then you should NOT be preordering an asic in the first place.

drewage

member

Activity: 262

Merit: 10

Quote from: Pentax on February 10, 2014, 05:35:02 PM

if they make this new deadline and the UPS man shows up by May 1 I'll be just as surprised as if Ed McMahon rang my doorbell and threw confetti at me while bobsag, matt et. al. walked it up the driveway while singing 'working in the coal mine'

^^^This would be well worth the wait. Grin

EDIT: Well maybe I'd rather have it on the 28th but....

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Why is everyone pretending they know the difficulty in 2 months? I have checked my crystal ball and it turns out difficulty only increases ~20% per change as opposed to the pessimistic 30% rate which most calculators have adopted. This means everyone will still reach positive roi even with the delays.

In all seriousness you can't hold BA accountable for not guaranteeing a profit (according to your calculations which are 99% wrong).

You can however hold them accountable to deliver hardware that meets advertised specs. Delays are unfortunate but not uncommon (Historically just about every asic manufacturer has experienced delays).

ChuckBuck

hero member

Activity: 1372

Merit: 783

better everyday ♥

Quote from: drewage on February 10, 2014, 05:22:25 PM

Quote from: goozman96 on February 10, 2014, 05:17:07 PM

My hypothesis - and anyone can disagree - is that they secretly decided to go with 20nm instead of 28nm because they couldn't reach their targets with 28nm. That's why bobsag3 said that stuff under NDA are "specifics" for tapeout, etc.
That's the "surprise" and they don't want KNC/Cointerra/etc to know about it until they've successfully produced it.

Oh, that would be nice! But I'll just sit here and wait patiently. No point getting my hopes up.

That kinda makes sense, since they ran a poll not too long ago asking if they should run with 28nm or 20nm process.

drewage

member

Activity: 262

Merit: 10

Quote from: goozman96 on February 10, 2014, 05:17:07 PM

My hypothesis - and anyone can disagree - is that they secretly decided to go with 20nm instead of 28nm because they couldn't reach their targets with 28nm. That's why bobsag3 said that stuff under NDA are "specifics" for tapeout, etc.
That's the "surprise" and they don't want KNC/Cointerra/etc to know about it until they've successfully produced it.

Oh, that would be nice! But I'll just sit here and wait patiently. No point getting my hopes up.

raskul

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: goozman96 on February 10, 2014, 05:17:07 PM

My hypothesis - and anyone can disagree - is that they secretly decided to go with 20nm instead of 28nm

if that is the case, i reckon you'll be waiting 'til 2015 q2/q3.

Dallas5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: goozman96 on February 10, 2014, 04:32:22 PM

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4851331

Thanks! That piece of text should have just been emailed to everyone, no way I'm reading through 100 pages of this thread, including that cage guy conspiracy crap. Anyway that's great to hear! Looking forward to finally mining some bitcoins at a decent hashrate.

yannis7777

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Pentax on February 10, 2014, 02:59:32 PM

Quote from: yannis7777 on February 10, 2014, 01:19:13 PM

I don't know but i get the feeling ASIC mining is not going to be around for long (or not appealing to the general public), especially in regards to SHA256 coins. Now if they bring forward the ASIC miners for scrypt that may be an entirely different story. ASIC is killing off the joy of mining though: Makes technology available to us at high costs and nearly before the technology has become obsolete (they probably mine the hell out of them before the miners reach us). I may be wrong and comments are welcome.

Hurricanes, earthquakes, armageddon. None of them have the ability to kill the joy of mining.

Losing thousands to fund a company that's dancing in your money and feeding you a river of bullshit while they're doing it.

THAT kills the joy of mining.

I do not know if it was not for ASICS we could still be mining Bitcoin with our gpu instead of spending 1 k for obsolete and shitty 60gh/s and 180s machines while waiting for 300 and 600 that will be as crap (as profitable that is) as the 60s we have by the time they reach us. Butterflies and the like are prolly already milking them and by the time we have them we will be left with some crust. The way I see it they sell the technology of tomorrow yesterday; only bad thing is that it gets delivered the day after tomorrow (if you are lucky). BUtterfly has been accepting orders from Septemeber, they were supposed to release January and if you are lucky you will have the fucker by March.I have not ordered any of these I just say...

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1756

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: ernie- on February 10, 2014, 04:37:42 PM

Quote from: OmegaCentauri on February 10, 2014, 04:17:41 PM

I'm loving BlackArrow's Australian reseller, 'BitMiners'.

Trying to offload BFL 60Gh/s http://bitminers.com.au/refurbished-mining-equipment/ for $2345 AUD ($2097.13 USD).

Flogging the Prospero X-3 (the 'may batch') http://bitminers.com.au/product/product-one/ for $8847 AUD ($7911.87 USD). 25% markup (without 10% import tax/duty).

OR

Prospero X-3 purchased directly from BlackArrow and shipping 'soon,' apparently, (This product will be available on 30 Apr 2014) for $6652.30 AUD ($5949.15 USD) + 10% import duty = $7317.53 AUD ($6544.07 USD).

Their prospero X1 price is a bit high $997 AUD how do they work that out?

People will pay that price so they sell them for that much... Pretty simple really.

ernie-

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

Quote from: OmegaCentauri on February 10, 2014, 04:17:41 PM

I'm loving BlackArrow's Australian reseller, 'BitMiners'.

Trying to offload BFL 60Gh/s http://bitminers.com.au/refurbished-mining-equipment/ for $2345 AUD ($2097.13 USD).

Flogging the Prospero X-3 (the 'may batch') http://bitminers.com.au/product/product-one/ for $8847 AUD ($7911.87 USD). 25% markup (without 10% import tax/duty).

OR

Prospero X-3 purchased directly from BlackArrow and shipping 'soon,' apparently, (This product will be available on 30 Apr 2014) for $6652.30 AUD ($5949.15 USD) + 10% import duty = $7317.53 AUD ($6544.07 USD).

Their prospero X1 price is a bit high $997 AUD how do they work that out?

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on February 10, 2014, 04:16:21 PM

Quote from: Trongersoll on February 10, 2014, 04:12:36 PM

Quote from: yannis7777 on February 10, 2014, 01:19:13 PM

I don't know but i get the feeling ASIC mining is not going to be around for long (or not appealing to the general public), especially in regards to SHA256 coins. Now if they bring forward the ASIC miners for scrypt that may be an entirely different story. ASIC is killing off the joy of mining though: Makes technology available to us at high costs and nearly before the technology has become obsolete (they probably mine the hell out of them before the miners reach us). I may be wrong and comments are welcome.

ASIC scrypt miner? how would that work? It is my understanding that scrypt mining isn't really doable on an ASIC. Something about ASICs not having any memory.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gridseed-gc3355-hybrid-scryptsha256-asic-355268

So? That chip isn't a true ASIC, but rather an hybrid with on chip ram.

Dallas5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: DebitMe on February 10, 2014, 02:44:41 PM

Quote from: Dallas5 on February 10, 2014, 02:40:47 PM

Just a simple question about the delay: If you've ordered from Minersource will you still be compensated?

Yes, BA and Bobsag have said that orders through MinerSource will also receive the 25% compensation package.

Thanks, do you have a source? I ask because I've emailed both companies but got no reply (yet) from MS and BA couldn't tell me and told me to mail MS.

I'm not looking for a refund just want to make sure we got compensation for the lost money not mining 2 months, seeing difficulty still rises on all SHA-256 coins. Still I would be really happy seeing those little X1's mining away in my house.

OmegaCentauri

newbie

Activity: 38

Merit: 0

I'm loving BlackArrow's Australian reseller, 'BitMiners'.

Trying to offload BFL 60Gh/s http://bitminers.com.au/refurbished-mining-equipment/ for $2345 AUD ($2097.13 USD).

Flogging the Prospero X-3 (the 'may batch') http://bitminers.com.au/product/product-one/ for $8847 AUD ($7911.87 USD). 25% markup (without 10% import tax/duty).

OR

Prospero X-3 purchased directly from BlackArrow and shipping 'soon,' apparently, (This product will be available on 30 Apr 2014) for $6652.30 AUD ($5949.15 USD) + 10% import duty = $7317.53 AUD ($6544.07 USD).

https://i.imgur.com/xcaGaAT.jpg

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1756

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

Quote from: Trongersoll on February 10, 2014, 04:12:36 PM

Quote from: yannis7777 on February 10, 2014, 01:19:13 PM

I don't know but i get the feeling ASIC mining is not going to be around for long (or not appealing to the general public), especially in regards to SHA256 coins. Now if they bring forward the ASIC miners for scrypt that may be an entirely different story. ASIC is killing off the joy of mining though: Makes technology available to us at high costs and nearly before the technology has become obsolete (they probably mine the hell out of them before the miners reach us). I may be wrong and comments are welcome.

ASIC scrypt miner? how would that work? It is my understanding that scrypt mining isn't really doable on an ASIC. Something about ASICs not having any memory.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gridseed-gc3355-hybrid-scryptsha256-asic-355268

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Quote from: yannis7777 on February 10, 2014, 01:19:13 PM

I don't know but i get the feeling ASIC mining is not going to be around for long (or not appealing to the general public), especially in regards to SHA256 coins. Now if they bring forward the ASIC miners for scrypt that may be an entirely different story. ASIC is killing off the joy of mining though: Makes technology available to us at high costs and nearly before the technology has become obsolete (they probably mine the hell out of them before the miners reach us). I may be wrong and comments are welcome.

ASIC scrypt miner? how would that work? It is my understanding that scrypt mining isn't really doable on an ASIC. Something about ASICs not having any memory.

Dallas5

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Just a simple question about the delay: If you've ordered from Minersource will you still be compensated?

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: K1773R on February 10, 2014, 01:14:13 PM

Quote from: Fireblade on February 10, 2014, 12:50:28 PM

Quote from: Syke on February 10, 2014, 12:33:32 PM

Quote from: FlappySocks on February 10, 2014, 08:33:09 AM

The X1 & X3 are going to be fantastic. And that's just the beginning.

Which miner would you buy?

A) $5/gh delivered next week
B) $3/gh delivered in three months

@ the current BTC prices none.

this is sad, but true!

Which is even more proof. The X1 & X3 cannot be "fantastic". Being so late makes them horrible.

Topic: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 264. (Read 787053 times)