Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 364.

blackarrow

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Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 03:29:14 AM

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money. Even if it makes no sense. What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital? I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.

Everybody until now sold you hardware that they knew that you're going to loose money because 1 month later they announced something faster at a better price.
We are guaranteeing that this won't happen with us: If we drop the price you'll get even faster hardware, keeping you in front of everybody else.

blackarrow

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Quote from: RHA on September 23, 2013, 03:19:10 AM

Where Black Arrow took the $1.99/GH/s from?

Orders of over 10000 pcs of Minion ASIC are $127.36/pcs

$127.36 / 64 = $1.99

blackarrow

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Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 01:51:30 AM

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

Customers who pre-order and pay now have 25% discount. Our promise is that we will ensure that customers who preorder now will always get a better deal than customers who order later.

At the same time we promise that our prices will be below market price at the time we ship.

This means that customers that preorder now will have considerable lower market prices by the time that we ship which puts them in advantage towards anybody else.

Unless Bitcoin mining stops because it becomes unprofitable for everybody else in February, our customers WILL make profit.

User705

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Quote from: xstr8guy on September 23, 2013, 02:48:58 AM

Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 01:51:30 AM

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow you've managed to miss the point, lol.

Preordering gives these small companies the needed capital to develop ASIC devices. In return, the "investor" is rewarded with a place in line when the device finally ships.

Right or wrong, it's pretty much the only game in town. If you are waiting for the time when things ship the same day that you place your order, you may be waiting a very long time... unless you're content with ASICMiner Blades and USB Erupters.

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow it's starting to feel like the companies will promise you anything and everything just to get your money. Even if it makes no sense. What's the point of them getting capital now if they guarantee to drop the prices to whatever the market price will be in the future and have to return most of that capital? I don't mind gambling but when the gamble is just some vague guarantee promise that isn't rooted in reality that's just one more hurdle to overcome besides the fact of sending non refundable to btc to some outfit in china and hoping for the best on a proposition that's many months away.

RHA

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Quote from: blackarrow on September 14, 2013, 10:15:59 AM

Black Arrow is currently selling the Minion as low as $1.99/Ghash

The Prospero (X-1) machine features a compact and stackable design, out of the box functionality, ethernet connectivity and friendly UI with a performance of 64 Ghash/second.

The Prospero (X-3) machine is designed for high performance mining, is fully rack-able and presents out of the box functionality, ethernet connectivity and friendly UI with a performance of 1300 Ghash/second.

Black Arrow Ltd are currently offering a 25% discount on all preorders paid in September and October. The sales price (after applying the advertised discount of 25%) for a Prospero X-1 is $239 and for Prospero X-3 is $3999.

Let's see.
X-1:
$239 / 64 GH/s = 3.73
Not $1.99 per GH/s.

X-3:
$3999 / 1344 GH/s = 2.97 (1344 is from the specification; X-3 should have 21 ASICs 64 GH/s each)
Still not $1.99.

Chips:
$169 / 64 GH/s = 2.64

But there is a discount:

Quote from: blackarrow on September 14, 2013, 10:15:59 AM

Black Arrow Ltd will continue their customer reward scheme by offering the owners of the Lancelot mining devices from the previous line, the chance to upgrade to the Prospero line by returning their products in exchange for a further $300 discount [2].

[2] Lancelot machines credit can be used against up to 30% of the amount on pre-orders or against up to 50% of the amount on orders. This credit has no cash value.

$2.97 - 30% = 2.079 (2.0828 exactly, but quite close)
$.64 - 30% = 1.85

However counting the discount is not fair. One would say BFL Single SC 60 GH/s was $699 because of FPGA upgrade.

Where Black Arrow took the $1.99/GH/s from?

monsters4r

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Another pre-order in stock product ?

No thanks Roll Eyes

xstr8guy

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Glow Stick Dance!

Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 01:51:30 AM

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

After a whole year of this ASIC preordering phenomenon/fiasco somehow you've managed to miss the point, lol.

Preordering gives these small companies the needed capital to develop ASIC devices. In return, the "investor" is rewarded with a place in line when the device finally ships.

Right or wrong, it's pretty much the only game in town. If you are waiting for the time when things ship the same day that you place your order, you may be waiting a very long time... unless you're content with ASICMiner Blades and USB Erupters.

papamoi

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hi

can you give more details about your fab ?

type of asic etc?

Puppet

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Its not shocking their "artist impression" would use some 3rd party case.

While I have no experience with them myself, if you look around you will see that Black Arrow is a real company with a sterling reputation for bringing to market FPGA based miners. I dont see any reason to assume this would be a scam.

User705

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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

If you are guaranteeing prices then what's the point of preorders? Basically the people preordering now are giving you a free loan because come february everyone gets the same price anyways. The only benefit of preordering now is if the buyer thinks that you won't have to lower prices and the current price will end up being less then market prices for similar devices at the time of shipping.

topminingcontracts

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TaaS is a closed-end fund designated to blockchain

I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC

r3animation

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Quote from: blackarrow on September 22, 2013, 02:28:54 AM

Quote from: r3animation on September 22, 2013, 02:26:55 AM

I love the prices but 64gh/s (the only one I have bitcoins for) isn't going to make any ROI in feb 2014. Sad

We do not think this is correct. We already replied to this here.

Quote

We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.

I do hope you're right. Grin

blackarrow

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Quote from: Bicknellski on September 22, 2013, 02:29:38 AM

We are business not a group buy... check the Project Development thread. We are not reselling or marking up chips. We are developing a new miner system.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-wasp-28nm-asic-miner-open-hardware-development-project-299255

In this case, we would be more than happy to do business with you.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: blackarrow on September 22, 2013, 12:21:31 AM

Quote from: Bicknellski on September 21, 2013, 08:43:20 PM

Would love to drop some Minion chips into The Wasp!

Can we contact you to discuss our teams plans for boards using the Minion chip?

Please PM me or write us via the website contact form.

I just looked over your thread and it looks that you're organizing a group buy. We try to stay away from these.

Why we do not accept group buys?
We have an experienced and dedicated customer support team that is able to provide a high quality service. They are qualified in handling and fixing all matters that might arise. Direct contact with our customers will also improve our products and customer service.
We also believe that a random person from the internet that organizes a group buy is both not qualified to handle customer support, shipping matters including local customs and might also not be trustworthy to receive all your money, forward them to us and distribute the merchandise to you. If we would accept a group buy and anything goes wrong with it, although legally we won't be responsible for this, our customers will be unhappy.
For these reasons we strictly prohibit group buys.

Do we accept resellers?
Yes. In order to save our customers shipping costs, we will accept a company that wishes to become our reseller and proves that they are experienced and trustworthy.

We are business not a group buy... check the Project Development thread. We are not reselling or marking up chips in a group buy. We are developing a new miner system as an Open Source Hardware project.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-wasp-28nm-asic-miner-open-hardware-development-project-299255

I will send out a message to you this week. Thanks for the quick response.

blackarrow

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Quote from: r3animation on September 22, 2013, 02:26:55 AM

I love the prices but 64gh/s (the only one I have bitcoins for) isn't going to make any ROI in feb 2014. Sad

We do not think this is correct. We already replied to this here.

Quote

We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.

r3animation

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

I love the prices but 64gh/s (the only one I have bitcoins for) isn't going to make any ROI in feb 2014. Sad

blackarrow

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Quote from: Simon Barber on September 22, 2013, 01:34:05 AM

Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

We've started the design in June. The only difference between us and our competitors is that we do not give unrealistic time frames which we know we cannot meet.

We are confident that we will deliver sooner but we do not make promises that we might not be able to fulfill.

Simon Barber

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Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

blackarrow

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Quote from: Tomatocage on September 22, 2013, 01:05:19 AM

The X-3 is advertised as being geared toward datacenters. Is there anything preventing me from buying one for home and just hooking it up to my PC?

We're designing X-3 to be rackable so we can easily fit it into the data centers but you can certainly use it in your own home.

Thank you for the very good question and we're sorry to have created this confusion. We will correct our description soon.

Tomatocage

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brb keeping up with the Kardashians

The X-3 is advertised as being geared toward datacenters. Is there anything preventing me from buying one for home and just hooking it up to my PC?

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