Topic: BlockBurner LLC - Crucible FPGA Scrypt Miner - Announcement Aug-19 - page 8. (Read 42395 times)
May 07, 2013, 12:48:41 PM
When a prototype is developed, would it be possible for those of us willing to accept the risk to buy a proto?
May 07, 2013, 06:22:26 AM
Very keen on product and invest.
May 06, 2013, 08:53:04 AM
I am very interested in FPGA for scrypt mining.
- Keep me updated<3
- Keep me updated<3
May 06, 2013, 08:52:43 AM
I will probably invest as well
May 05, 2013, 10:26:28 PM
I would be ready to order once numbers and timeframes are released.
Same here!
ditto
Ask and you shall receive
The hardware design is being discussed with some specifics locked down, still a ways off of the first prototype however but are moving quickly. This ends Week 2, for our short time in existence I think we have made a large amount of progress that is continuing at this pace.
We are being deliberately tight lipped until we have something concrete to report to keep our expectations managed as well as yours. I think we have all seen (in BFLs case) the end results of getting ahead of ourselves, and have no desire to go down that road. There are discussions and progress in mapping the plan out in our JIRA development site, a part of which we will likely make public when it is time, but otherwise unwilling to divulge more than we are comfortable with.
I have a personal announcement that I lost my meager meat-world job as of last Friday. As such, I will be running BlockBurner full time from now on through project completion and beyond. This does not affect our operations on a financial level, so all is good. If anything this is better in that I can now give my full and undivided attention the project and our supporters.
Operatr
May 05, 2013, 06:22:35 PM
I would be ready to order once numbers and timeframes are released.
Same here!
ditto
May 05, 2013, 05:49:45 PM
I would be ready to order once numbers and timeframes are released.
Same here!
May 05, 2013, 05:21:01 PM
I would love to hear some kind of update on this project.
May 05, 2013, 05:00:03 PM
I would be ready to order once numbers and timeframes are released.
May 03, 2013, 06:19:27 PM
any updates?
May 02, 2013, 12:20:01 PM
again the benefit is for those who pay around $.26 a kW and ti is cost prohibitive to run GPU farms. It is for those who have low capacity, apartments, renting, or do not have access to high capacity power. I'm grateful in that I'm not limited by those constraints but I welcome it for those who would like to participate but cannot.
I live in an apt, but pay only $0.06/kW and am honestly more interested in raw power then low power draw. I am of course hoping for both
May 02, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
again the benefit is for those who pay around $.26 a kW and ti is cost prohibitive to run GPU farms. It is for those who have low capacity, apartments, renting, or do not have access to high capacity power. I'm grateful in that I'm not limited by those constraints but I welcome it for those who would like to participate but cannot.
May 02, 2013, 12:08:38 PM
The problem is that the on-device block RAM is insanely slow compared to GPU ram (about 10 times slower for most FPGAs). The per slice block RAM for most FPGAs is also less than 128 KB (more like 8 KB in typical cases).
Well, I'm not as familiar with GPU, but I doubt it is 10 times faster. And I believe you have been misinformed regarding the capacity as well.
The Spartan-6 LX 150 used on many of the boards already built has 4.9 million bits of memory. The memory in -3 speed grade part can run at up to 320MHz
Newer but similar priced Artix-7 have 13.4 million bits, with up to 509MHz in -3 grade parts.
As it relates to scrypt and it's 128KB scratchpad, the core loop accesses memory sequentially in 1024-bit widths. Within an FPGA, you can have access to all 1024 bits in a single clock. While you may not be able to achieve that performance point due to other issues, 1024 bits @ 320/500MHz is nothing to sneeze at.
Total block ram on the whole chip for a spartan6 lx 150 (most expensive chip) is 4824 Kb. http://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/spartan-6/lx.htm
Memory bandwidth for the block RAM is about 30-60 gb/s (your numbers above) while GPU internal bus is usually around 250 gb/s on higher end cards.
7990 - http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-hd-7990-malta-performance-benchmarks-leaked-crushes-geforce-gtx-690/
576.0 GB/s bandwidth.
its a high end card , but that's a high end FPGA - and can the FPGA compete with ATI productive to Scale power?
not saying it can't be done just saying [Watts and Space] - is the net benefit i see.
I hope we can say more about expected performance soon, though two of the primary benefits are certainly much lower operating costs and are way easier to scale up.
May 02, 2013, 10:58:09 AM
The problem is that the on-device block RAM is insanely slow compared to GPU ram (about 10 times slower for most FPGAs). The per slice block RAM for most FPGAs is also less than 128 KB (more like 8 KB in typical cases).
Well, I'm not as familiar with GPU, but I doubt it is 10 times faster. And I believe you have been misinformed regarding the capacity as well.
The Spartan-6 LX 150 used on many of the boards already built has 4.9 million bits of memory. The memory in -3 speed grade part can run at up to 320MHz
Newer but similar priced Artix-7 have 13.4 million bits, with up to 509MHz in -3 grade parts.
As it relates to scrypt and it's 128KB scratchpad, the core loop accesses memory sequentially in 1024-bit widths. Within an FPGA, you can have access to all 1024 bits in a single clock. While you may not be able to achieve that performance point due to other issues, 1024 bits @ 320/500MHz is nothing to sneeze at.
Total block ram on the whole chip for a spartan6 lx 150 (most expensive chip) is 4824 Kb. http://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/spartan-6/lx.htm
Memory bandwidth for the block RAM is about 30-60 gb/s (your numbers above) while GPU internal bus is usually around 250 gb/s on higher end cards.
7990 - http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-hd-7990-malta-performance-benchmarks-leaked-crushes-geforce-gtx-690/
576.0 GB/s bandwidth.
its a high end card , but that's a high end FPGA - and can the FPGA compete with ATI productive to Scale power?
not saying it can't be done just saying [Watts and Space] - is the net benefit i see.
May 02, 2013, 10:33:14 AM
There do exist FPGA's suitable for the job. Scrypt's main issue that it is incredibly memory intensive, where SHA256 is highly processor based and uses little memory. FPGA rigs would vastly outperform GPUs and cost much less to operate long term. GPUs work because they are designed for the memory intensity of graphics processing and delivery, which a regular processors fast cache memory is also applicable, FPGAs can follow the same path but just be much faster to hash and power efficient. Up front cost for these benefits however, is higher.
I personally spent some time looking into the Salsa function and - $/# ratio as related to high speed transfer needed on RAM specifications:
And in the end i think the only way you will end up selling devices is on the Power Cost Ratio over Time equation - and Market Hype.
Don't take that as negative from me , (and for anyone reading this) ; this will probably just mean that a marketable device will be sourced from a mockup design, then built on order, for profit.
this is a net benefit, as it means your cost/margin as producer becomes prohibitive (if the market becomes adverse) therefore the proclivity to "design and mine" as with ASICS is lessened greatly , becasue your Net Risk is about as great as the general user.
Scrypt FPGA is a market risk but net power consumption benefit - and a net Benefit to users. but they will cost a lot # wise , and i'll be interested to see what the market [Expects] as against the [#$ Reality.] upfront cost.
May 02, 2013, 10:18:12 AM
All I ask is make a new thread when it's time to order. Give us a heads up like " we will be taking orders in 2 weeks" it gives some people that don't have liquidity time to get some funds together and not miss the boat so to speak.
Regards,
Regards,
May 02, 2013, 09:17:43 AM
I would prob argue that graphics cards can be resold just fine unless they are damaged, while a special built FPGA for LTC mining would be a different story altogether. Not that I or anyone really care, if you buy a LTC custom FPGA I would assume you do it with a ROI within reason and resale value not included. Otherwise you have to be nuts!
Well first off, it is not a LTC custom FPGA.
It is a LTC, FTC, BBQ, TBX capable FPGA and a possible incentive to think about getting merged mining implemented in the Scrypt-coin world too if you want to extend the usefulness of the device.
Maybe by the time LTC, FTC, BBQ and TBX are all far too difficult for the device to effectively mine they could all be merged together and some newer ones thrown into the merge too, extending the useful lifetime of the device.
-MarkM-
MarkM,
I am not arguing its a bad idea (hell I am super excited) or a bad investment. I am purely stating that a specialized scrypt solving FPGA would have less resale value for general purposes then a FPGA board with standard specs would, while GPU has 'gaming' to fall back on.
Super cool project and I would definitely be lining up to be part of pre order and development funding.
May 02, 2013, 09:14:03 AM
Well, I am getting bombarded with messages! There is a little backlog for me to chew through but if you sent me something I will get back to you in the next day or two.
Overall incredible response guys, from well-wishers to the hardest core miners, we really do appreciate it. The team is off and running charting out hardware and developing our business structure. For only being about 1.5 weeks old, we have already grown tremendously.
For devs applying, frankly we have about 5x more than needed for the moment! As much as I wish I could include everyone that had interest in helping out, I simply can't. I had no expectation that we would have so many interested to be a part of this, which is both amazing to see but sad that I must turn the majority of you down for this one.
But, it is obvious that 1) There is serious passion around these boards and 2) You guys really want to be involved in a community project. So, dev applicants, though you may not be able to be on the core BlockBurner FPGA team (for now), I am thinking about doing something else. I will be getting back to all of you in time to get some feedback on this.
Operatr
I am way under qualified for engineering work but when it comes to design, marketing and business end I would be happy to lend my time and knowledge. My day-job is as marketing/product manager at a tech start up.
Overall incredible response guys, from well-wishers to the hardest core miners, we really do appreciate it. The team is off and running charting out hardware and developing our business structure. For only being about 1.5 weeks old, we have already grown tremendously.
For devs applying, frankly we have about 5x more than needed for the moment! As much as I wish I could include everyone that had interest in helping out, I simply can't. I had no expectation that we would have so many interested to be a part of this, which is both amazing to see but sad that I must turn the majority of you down for this one.
But, it is obvious that 1) There is serious passion around these boards and 2) You guys really want to be involved in a community project. So, dev applicants, though you may not be able to be on the core BlockBurner FPGA team (for now), I am thinking about doing something else. I will be getting back to all of you in time to get some feedback on this.
Operatr
I am way under qualified for engineering work but when it comes to design, marketing and business end I would be happy to lend my time and knowledge. My day-job is as marketing/product manager at a tech start up.
May 01, 2013, 07:21:51 PM
This looks to be moving along nicely Since there are so many people volunteering to help out, maybe you should appoint a spokesman (or woman) that their only responsibility is communication to the interested parties. I believe that you have been doing a great job informing us of progress but I know how easy it is to be consumed with a big project. At any rate, I am excited for your progress and look forward to further updates as your team moves forward.
Cheers!
New
Since there are so many people volunteering to help out, maybe you should appoint a spokesman (or woman) that their only responsibility is communication to the interested parties. I believe that you have been doing a great job informing us of progress but I know how easy it is to be consumed with a big project. At any rate, I am excited for your progress and look forward to further updates as your team moves forward.Cheers!
New
May 01, 2013, 07:19:01 PM
I will vacuum the dev office for boards...
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