Well, I am getting bombarded with messages! There is a little backlog for me to chew through but if you sent me something I will get back to you in the next day or two.
Overall incredible response guys, from well-wishers to the hardest core miners, we really do appreciate it. The team is off and running charting out hardware and developing our business structure. For only being about 1.5 weeks old, we have already grown tremendously.
For devs applying, frankly we have about 5x more than needed for the moment! As much as I wish I could include everyone that had interest in helping out, I simply can't. I had no expectation that we would have so many interested to be a part of this, which is both amazing to see but sad that I must turn the majority of you down for this one.
But, it is obvious that 1) There is serious passion around these boards and 2) You guys really want to be involved in a community project. So, dev applicants, though you may not be able to be on the core BlockBurner FPGA team (for now), I am thinking about doing something else. I will be getting back to all of you in time to get some feedback on this.
Operatr
Topic: BlockBurner LLC - Crucible FPGA Scrypt Miner - Announcement Aug-19 - page 9. (Read 42395 times)
May 01, 2013, 07:13:59 PM
May 01, 2013, 05:13:37 AM
I would prob argue that graphics cards can be resold just fine unless they are damaged, while a special built FPGA for LTC mining would be a different story altogether. Not that I or anyone really care, if you buy a LTC custom FPGA I would assume you do it with a ROI within reason and resale value not included. Otherwise you have to be nuts!
Well first off, it is not a LTC custom FPGA.
It is a LTC, FTC, BBQ, TBX capable FPGA and a possible incentive to think about getting merged mining implemented in the Scrypt-coin world too if you want to extend the usefulness of the device.
Maybe by the time LTC, FTC, BBQ and TBX are all far too difficult for the device to effectively mine they could all be merged together and some newer ones thrown into the merge too, extending the useful lifetime of the device.
-MarkM-
Hashing scrypt efficiently is a useful capability.
There are other things an fpga can be used for as well.
April 30, 2013, 08:05:03 PM
I'm interested in one of these, as long as it's easy to use. I would be able to pre-order one too.
April 30, 2013, 07:23:23 PM
I am very interested , but do not want to BFL this long of wait . This is a failed company .
Our timeline in fact is shaping up quickly, though I cannot give specifics on the near future, I can say there will not be a year long wait without updates (because that is ridiculous). If everyone is still waiting a year from today for this device , I would be inclined to agree with you on our many failings.
I would prob argue that graphics cards can be resold just fine unless they are damaged, while a special built FPGA for LTC mining would be a different story altogether. Not that I or anyone really care, if you buy a LTC custom FPGA I would assume you do it with a ROI within reason and resale value not included. Otherwise you have to be nuts!
Well first off, it is not a LTC custom FPGA.
It is a LTC, FTC, BBQ, TBX capable FPGA and a possible incentive to think about getting merged mining implemented in the Scrypt-coin world too if you want to extend the usefulness of the device.
Maybe by the time LTC, FTC, BBQ and TBX are all far too difficult for the device to effectively mine they could all be merged together and some newer ones thrown into the merge too, extending the useful lifetime of the device.
-MarkM-
Yes indeed, overall, just like Bitcoin ASICs are in fact SHA356 hashers that can work with a variety of altcoins, our Scrypt optimized board would work on any Litecoin derived coin. Scrypt is used beyond Litecoin as well, making this machine useful for a variety of cryptographic processing.
April 30, 2013, 04:28:30 PM
1. Do you think the market and community is ready for FPGA Litecoin?
2. Is there definite interest in FPGA Litecoin machines? Would you buy one if the price was reasonable? What is reasonable?
3. Would you pre-order one to support first round funding for prototyping and first wave production? (I'm no one but a lowly computer specialist and budding entrepreneur burned by Big Banking already, so this would have to be crowd funded to get started without a loan shark involved. You would be relying on me to deliver the goods and not squander the investment with idiotic decisions, even still you would stand to lose your pre-order through economic issues and unseen factors, so there is a risk to early adopters as with all things, though Im thinking of other incentives for early participants once it gets off the ground, what kind of incentives come to mind to make the investment more attractive to you?)
1) If it can work yes.
2) Always if there is money to be made.
3) Yes I"m in for some.
April 30, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
I would prob argue that graphics cards can be resold just fine unless they are damaged, while a special built FPGA for LTC mining would be a different story altogether. Not that I or anyone really care, if you buy a LTC custom FPGA I would assume you do it with a ROI within reason and resale value not included. Otherwise you have to be nuts!
Well first off, it is not a LTC custom FPGA.
It is a LTC, FTC, BBQ, TBX capable FPGA and a possible incentive to think about getting merged mining implemented in the Scrypt-coin world too if you want to extend the usefulness of the device.
Maybe by the time LTC, FTC, BBQ and TBX are all far too difficult for the device to effectively mine they could all be merged together and some newer ones thrown into the merge too, extending the useful lifetime of the device.
-MarkM-
April 30, 2013, 12:27:39 PM
I am very interested , but do not want to BFL this long of wait . This is a failed company .
You should prob just leave and take some English lessons.
April 30, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
I understand your point of view. I was thinking about the average American when I was making my points, not just myself. Here in the US, electricity rates are quite reasonable for most people.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about the value of GPUs vs FPGAs. The reason I think GPUs definitely hold more value than FPGAs is because of demand, not because of the items themselves. Gamers create a much larger market for GPUs than the FPGA market that is created by miners (by miners I mean people who are into mining enough to buy a dedicated mining device like an FPGA, not people who casually mine with their GPU when they're not gaming). Basically, there are many times more gamers than miners, thus allowing GPUs to hold their value longer.
Fpgas have value apart from being "mining devices". If they are being sold for more than that value, they are being sold for more than they are worth.
I may not represent you in the US, but I doubt I'm in the minority world wide. Most people in the world don't have central air and 200 amp home service.
This may be true for 'general' FPGA's but the specialized FPGS's we are talking about that focus on LTC mining will have close to zero resale value over what they are worth for mining. And I would assume far lower resale value then graphics cards.
If you know what a Field Programmable Gate Array is, that statement doesn't make the slightest bit of sense whatsoever.
And GPUs that have been run overclocked and maxed for years? I doubt they have a lot of resale value, if any.
I would prob argue that graphics cards can be resold just fine unless they are damaged, while a special built FPGA for LTC mining would be a different story altogether. Not that I or anyone really care, if you buy a LTC custom FPGA I would assume you do it with a ROI within reason and resale value not included. Otherwise you have to be nuts!
April 30, 2013, 07:42:08 AM
I am very interested , but do not want to BFL this long of wait . This is a failed company .
April 30, 2013, 03:29:40 AM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
I understand your point of view. I was thinking about the average American when I was making my points, not just myself. Here in the US, electricity rates are quite reasonable for most people.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about the value of GPUs vs FPGAs. The reason I think GPUs definitely hold more value than FPGAs is because of demand, not because of the items themselves. Gamers create a much larger market for GPUs than the FPGA market that is created by miners (by miners I mean people who are into mining enough to buy a dedicated mining device like an FPGA, not people who casually mine with their GPU when they're not gaming). Basically, there are many times more gamers than miners, thus allowing GPUs to hold their value longer.
Fpgas have value apart from being "mining devices". If they are being sold for more than that value, they are being sold for more than they are worth.
I may not represent you in the US, but I doubt I'm in the minority world wide. Most people in the world don't have central air and 200 amp home service.
This may be true for 'general' FPGA's but the specialized FPGS's we are talking about that focus on LTC mining will have close to zero resale value over what they are worth for mining. And I would assume far lower resale value then graphics cards.
If you know what a Field Programmable Gate Array is, that statement doesn't make the slightest bit of sense whatsoever.
And GPUs that have been run overclocked and maxed for years? I doubt they have a lot of resale value, if any.
April 29, 2013, 04:58:23 PM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
I understand your point of view. I was thinking about the average American when I was making my points, not just myself. Here in the US, electricity rates are quite reasonable for most people.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about the value of GPUs vs FPGAs. The reason I think GPUs definitely hold more value than FPGAs is because of demand, not because of the items themselves. Gamers create a much larger market for GPUs than the FPGA market that is created by miners (by miners I mean people who are into mining enough to buy a dedicated mining device like an FPGA, not people who casually mine with their GPU when they're not gaming). Basically, there are many times more gamers than miners, thus allowing GPUs to hold their value longer.
Fpgas have value apart from being "mining devices". If they are being sold for more than that value, they are being sold for more than they are worth.
I may not represent you in the US, but I doubt I'm in the minority world wide. Most people in the world don't have central air and 200 amp home service.
This may be true for 'general' FPGA's but the specialized FPGS's we are talking about that focus on LTC mining will have close to zero resale value over what they are worth for mining. And I would assume far lower resale value then graphics cards.
April 29, 2013, 04:44:22 AM
Update
New FAQ on the home site (which also got some polish) -
http://www.blockburner.net/faq/
We now have Facebook and LinkedIn pages in addition to our subReddit
The dev team getting settled in and the plan is being mapped out, stay tuned
Operatr
New FAQ on the home site (which also got some polish) -
http://www.blockburner.net/faq/
We now have Facebook and LinkedIn pages in addition to our subReddit
The dev team getting settled in and the plan is being mapped out, stay tuned
Operatr
April 28, 2013, 03:55:29 PM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
I understand your point of view. I was thinking about the average American when I was making my points, not just myself. Here in the US, electricity rates are quite reasonable for most people.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about the value of GPUs vs FPGAs. The reason I think GPUs definitely hold more value than FPGAs is because of demand, not because of the items themselves. Gamers create a much larger market for GPUs than the FPGA market that is created by miners (by miners I mean people who are into mining enough to buy a dedicated mining device like an FPGA, not people who casually mine with their GPU when they're not gaming). Basically, there are many times more gamers than miners, thus allowing GPUs to hold their value longer.
Fpgas have value apart from being "mining devices". If they are being sold for more than that value, they are being sold for more than they are worth.
I may not represent you in the US, but I doubt I'm in the minority world wide. Most people in the world don't have central air and 200 amp home service.
April 28, 2013, 12:07:26 PM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
I understand your point of view. I was thinking about the average American when I was making my points, not just myself. Here in the US, electricity rates are quite reasonable for most people.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say about the value of GPUs vs FPGAs. The reason I think GPUs definitely hold more value than FPGAs is because of demand, not because of the items themselves. Gamers create a much larger market for GPUs than the FPGA market that is created by miners (by miners I mean people who are into mining enough to buy a dedicated mining device like an FPGA, not people who casually mine with their GPU when they're not gaming). Basically, there are many times more gamers than miners, thus allowing GPUs to hold their value longer.
April 28, 2013, 11:21:25 AM
No offense, but you're in the minority, not the majority. Also, GPUs hold more value than FPGAs for one simple reason, demand. The demand for GPUs is much higher than it is for FPGAs because the market is many times larger.
It's true. My accounting factors in resale value for the rigs I build, subtracting depreciation, it's a sizable chunk of change. On the other hand Bitcoin FPGAs had a high resale value up to the point ASICs came out. Now they are drastically depreciating.
And everyone's variables are different. Like people in this thread have mentioned. Some live in areas where electricity costs are prohibitive to mining others have offloaded the electrical costs to their landlords, employers, the parents they still live with. We can't determine if the FPGA are viable just because its not viable to ourselves. There will be a market for it. People with high electricity costs will buy it outright. Others like myself pay anywhere between .07 to .14 USD per kW. I have to determine if buying FPGAs (paying the premium over GPUs for them) is better than the rates I'm paying plus the additional investment in adding more service, or finding a location to run them from.
I don't think FPGA will break LTC coins. I'm expecting that they will be priced factoring the electrical savings one would get and a premium to to their initial scarcity.
April 28, 2013, 10:39:36 AM
1. Do you think the market and community is ready for FPGA Litecoin?
Yes
2. Is there definite interest in FPGA Litecoin machines? Would you buy one if the price was reasonable?
Yes and Yes
2.3 What is reasonable?
Reasonable to me is around $300, (I blow that on a good weekend with the wife and kids), not too much risk for a device that may or may not exist, from a company that is just getting started, from someone that I personally do not know
3. Would you pre-order one to support first round funding for prototyping and first wave production?
Yes
Yes
2. Is there definite interest in FPGA Litecoin machines? Would you buy one if the price was reasonable?
Yes and Yes
2.3 What is reasonable?
Reasonable to me is around $300, (I blow that on a good weekend with the wife and kids), not too much risk for a device that may or may not exist, from a company that is just getting started, from someone that I personally do not know
3. Would you pre-order one to support first round funding for prototyping and first wave production?
Yes
April 28, 2013, 10:25:14 AM
April 28, 2013, 12:48:28 AM
April 27, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
April 27, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
May I know the hashing power? 10 or 20 mg/s?
It is not bitcoin.. for FPGA it should be in the KH/s, even multiple graphics cards only give you low MH/s
Wrong. FPHA has nothing to do with it. It's because LTC is SCRYPT, and I am assuming the goal of the FPGA's would be to reach into MH/Sek otherwise why design them?
FPGA's are likely to continue to lag behind GPU for litecoin, currently there are no products I know of that can produce in the MH/s range for a single unit.
I.E a single GPU/ FPGA (even with multiple cores), and the reason to design with FPGA are numerous, I will give you two.
1. lower power consumption
2. Ebay scrap. (this works fine for individual miners, but not if you want to build and sell to the public.....)
So even if I cannot match GPU:FPGA on a 1:1 basis, I can out purchase on a 1:n basis
LTC difficulty is set to jump again in about 2.5 hours (62 blocks to go) and is currently skyrocketing, even to scale up and remain profitable GPUs become unviable at a point. They simply don't scale well from the massive power and cooling cost.
The only FPGAs used with Scrypt so far were available Spartan units, which gave decent performance. We are out to build a device with Scrypt in mind. We will not give any numbers until there is something concrete to report.
Will the FPGAs take more than a month to be completed? Is there a pre-estimation?
At this time we have no estimations, or even pre-estimations on any dates. The team is just coming together and we are still seeing what we need, but the groundwork and planning has begun in our JIRA dev site (if you are a mac/windows/linux desktop developer PM me!). We have no desire to be a shipper of vaporware or make promises we have no idea that we can keep in the end. As such, announcements will be made when we have real information. Talk is cheap in this industry, we are more interested in letting real results speak for us.
It is my own personal desire to see us have a production sample in our hands within 6 months. BlockBurner is only about a week old now, so we have a ways to go before I can say anything more concrete. We are designing a ground up FPGA opposed to using off the shelf parts like FPGAs before it, so there are certainly some unknowns to overcome.
I will be creating a FAQ soon with the most common questions I am getting, stay tuned!
Operatr
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