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Topic: [Boxing] Anthony Joshua vs. Francis Ngannou - March 9 (Read 2632 times)

legendary
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I think he fought a legitimate boxer before and it was against Tommy Fury, unfortunately he loss, so most probably he won't fight a legitimate boxer because he already experience losing and that will not help if he wants to grow his career. His popularity is really high, that is even despite he is not in a championship yet, even more popular than a boxers who are in a championship fight.  

Tommy is hardly a professional boxer though. He might have a 10-0 record (including Paul) but he hasn't fought any higher ranked fighter yet. On top of that, it doesn't look like he's too much interested in serious boxing career and in moving up the ranks, as his next opponent is Olajide William Olatunji (aka "KSI"), some other "social media influencer" (which I only know from getting KO'ed by Jake Paul). So it's evident he's in it for the fame/money not for the sport.
But yeah, that was the closest to a real boxer Jake Paul has ever faced. I think there's a big chance he'll get whopped by Mike Tyson in July, despite Tyson being 58 at the date of the fight.
legendary
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Even with two losses I consider Ngannou more of a legitimate fighter than Jake Paul.

Marvelous conclusion. I would say the same in more detailed form. Ngannou, a 37 years old guy who has been training boxing at 22, had 20 professional mma fights, looks more like a fighter than an 27 years old amateur who has started boxing late and is in the start of his boxing career. Why dont you compare identical career periods to make things more fair ? Who are those first 5-6 Ngannou opponents?

Rachid Benzina - guy with 0-1 record. Debut fight against Ngannou
Zoumana Cisse. 13-3, but Ngannou has lost to him.
Bilal Tahtahi - 0-3.
Nicolas Specq 2-2 when he met Ngannou.
Luc Ngeleka 1-1 when he met Ngannou.

Yeah, these guys are definitely better and experienced than Askren, Woodley and Silva.
hero member
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Even with two losses I consider Ngannou more of a legitimate fighter than Jake Paul. In fact, since Jake is fighting a heavyweight next, I see no reason why he couldn’t fight Ngannou but I suspect he will be too scared because Ngannou isn’t almost a senior citizen or a blown up MMA weiterweight.
I laughed at this more than I should've, I haven't seen Jake Paul fight a legitimate fighter, he's like trying to be Floyd Mayweather but at least Mayweather chooses the real fighters when he's fighting unlike with Jake, it's mostly people that's not in the boxing scene for a really long time and most of the time, it's more on exhibition matches, as if he's ever proven himself to the world already that he only does exhibition fights which probably makes him the money but probably not prestige and acclaim as a boxer. Boxing really needs to change as a sport organization, it's so corrupt and the fighters can choose who they want to fight or not when that shouldn't be the case, it should be a test of your might that no matter who is put in front of you, you always do your best to fight them like what Pacquiao did in his time as a boxer.
I think he fought a legitimate boxer before and it was against Tommy Fury, unfortunately he loss, so most probably he won't fight a legitimate boxer because he already experience losing and that will not help if he wants to grow his career. His popularity is really high, that is even despite he is not in a championship yet, even more popular than a boxers who are in a championship fight. 

Time will come, hopefully he will pursue to have a championship fight if his ranking is good so he can prove to the world that he really wants to become a champion and just making an exhibition fights as his stepping stone.
sr. member
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Even with two losses I consider Ngannou more of a legitimate fighter than Jake Paul. In fact, since Jake is fighting a heavyweight next, I see no reason why he couldn’t fight Ngannou but I suspect he will be too scared because Ngannou isn’t almost a senior citizen or a blown up MMA weiterweight.
I laughed at this more than I should've, I haven't seen Jake Paul fight a legitimate fighter, he's like trying to be Floyd Mayweather but at least Mayweather chooses the real fighters when he's fighting unlike with Jake, it's mostly people that's not in the boxing scene for a really long time and most of the time, it's more on exhibition matches, as if he's ever proven himself to the world already that he only does exhibition fights which probably makes him the money but probably not prestige and acclaim as a boxer. Boxing really needs to change as a sport organization, it's so corrupt and the fighters can choose who they want to fight or not when that shouldn't be the case, it should be a test of your might that no matter who is put in front of you, you always do your best to fight them like what Pacquiao did in his time as a boxer.
legendary
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UFC superstars have better contracts now especially to demanding fighters. But still far from boxers' PPV revenue share and their purse guarantees. But maybe boxing superstars are overpaid or their purse guarantees are just too high which is why networks like HBO and Showtime left.

Purse inflation has certainly been detrimental to the sport of boxing. Fighters are less active than ever and less willing to take risks. It is why Canelo is fighting Munguia instead of Benavidez. Why face a bigger and more dangerous fighter when you can still make tens of millions against an inferior opponent. Let’s keep in mind that to even agree to fight Munguia was a difficult ordeal because Canelo’s preference was the less active and presumably easier Jermall Charlo. Fighters like Gervonta Davis have taken cherry picking to an even more extreme level by entirely avoiding any credible threat and trying to gaslight the public into believing his secondary titles are meaningful accomplishments.

This is also why according to Teddy Atlas, boxing is dying. Everything about organizing boxing fights and events are for money, however, much of the quality of the fights are low except for some of the main events. I will repeat again that much of them are similar to scam ICOs where the promoters hype their projects then dump them on their own followers. This sport of boxing should be the best against the best. However, coming from different promotions, organizations and the politics of this has made the sport a quagmire. Showtime and HBO have seen the future and it might not be positive.
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Will you take this excuse from Francis as a good reason why his performance in the fight with Anthony Joshua was nothing compared to his first fight?  
Quote
Francis Ngannou has claim that the late start time of his fight against Anthony Joshua affected him.
Do you think time wastage can affect a fighter.
This is where I came across the news: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/francis-ngannou-claims-late-start-time-affected-him-in-fight-against-anthony-joshua/ar-BB1kisZo

Fighters come up with all kinds of weird excuses whenever they lose. It’s not as bad as saying your costume was too heavy, like Deontay Wilder, but it’s also not a convincing reason. Even if there is long delays between fights he could’ve just laid down to rest like those infamous photos of Canelo and Kovalev laying on a couch because DAZN was waiting for a UFC event to finish.

Ngannou lost because Joshua is a superior boxer who hit him with some brutal punches that he didn’t really know how to defend against. It is that simple.

Francis also has his ranking from number 10 in the WBC ranking dropped to number 24 as a result of his poor fight against Anthony Joshua that landed him a second loss in boxing.
https://www.telecomasia.net/news/boxing/ngannou-drops-to-24th-in-wbc-rankings-after-defeat-to-joshua/

Even with two losses I consider Ngannou more of a legitimate fighter than Jake Paul. In fact, since Jake is fighting a heavyweight next, I see no reason why he couldn’t fight Ngannou but I suspect he will be too scared because Ngannou isn’t almost a senior citizen or a blown up MMA weiterweight.
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Let us not expect from Ngannou, he was already exposed, loss to AJ in just 2 rounds, so there's no reason for promoters to hype him as 0-2 is enough to conclude what he can do in boxing. Wilder vs AJ might be a good fight IMO, after all Wilder is still a boxer and who knows Wilder might upset AJ in this match and will put his name again in the possible championship fight. There's no guarantee that AJ could beat Wilder but I'm sure Wilder will just easily destroy Ngannou, and might experience the worst loss, worst that his loss to AJ. 
Will you take this excuse from Francis as a good reason why his performance in the fight with Anthony Joshua was nothing compared to his first fight? 
Quote
Francis Ngannou has claim that the late start time of his fight against Anthony Joshua affected him.
Do you think time wastage can affect a fighter.
This is where I came across the news: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/francis-ngannou-claims-late-start-time-affected-him-in-fight-against-anthony-joshua/ar-BB1kisZo

Francis also has his ranking from number 10 in the WBC ranking dropped to number 24 as a result of his poor fight against Anthony Joshua that landed him a second loss in boxing.
https://www.telecomasia.net/news/boxing/ngannou-drops-to-24th-in-wbc-rankings-after-defeat-to-joshua/
hero member
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I changed my mind, I want to see Wilder Vs Ngannou now. I think Wilder would be a favourite but it won't be as easy for him as it was for AJ.

The fight is a banger, two heavy hitters, but Wilder will have a massive advantage here in my opinion. Perhaps this fight could be good for him to get back his confidence and maybe still continue with his career and making good money.

Let us not expect from Ngannou, he was already exposed, loss to AJ in just 2 rounds, so there's no reason for promoters to hype him as 0-2 is enough to conclude what he can do in boxing. Wilder vs AJ might be a good fight IMO, after all Wilder is still a boxer and who knows Wilder might upset AJ in this match and will put his name again in the possible championship fight. There's no guarantee that AJ could beat Wilder but I'm sure Wilder will just easily destroy Ngannou, and might experience the worst loss, worst that his loss to AJ. 

hero member
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He was the favorite during the first and 2nd fight between Fury, but in the 3rd, Fury ended and proved that he had won all 3 fights. Wilder was a 100% KO artist before he fough Fury, but he just found his kryptonite as he could not KO Fury, the guy got knock down, got up and continue like nothing happen/ I think that's really how strong Fury is, he might not be a KO artist but anyone who would fight him would struggle to beat him especially if they are thinking of pull up an impressive win.

I think the main reason for Wilder's downfall was his lack of resilience and weak mentality. He had a massively inflated ego from the zero-loss and 100% KO record. That was where he was getting his confidence from. The moment that was taken away from him by the draw in their first fight, his mentality collapsed like a house of cards. He realised he was not the "chosen one" destined for success. In the pre-fight interviews he looked scared and broken, Fury was totally dominating him. Before the 3rd, there was even a press conference when he refused to talk at all, which was a massive sign of weakness. Fury even offered to do both parts himself, which was hilarious.

Yes, and as we have seen when he lost the second fight, he was blaming everyone, the referee, the costume that he is wearing coming out, his trainer. And that is a sign that his ego has been damage already. And in his last fight he lost, again, I see that his lost with Fury has something to do with that, mentally wise.

I changed my mind, I want to see Wilder Vs Ngannou now. I think Wilder would be a favourite but it won't be as easy for him as it was for AJ.

The fight is a banger, two heavy hitters, but Wilder will have a massive advantage here in my opinion. Perhaps this fight could be good for him to get back his confidence and maybe still continue with his career and making good money.
hero member
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For sure, Ngannou will excel in boxing with time, if puts his mind to it, at least he now knows that boxing is not only by physical strength alone but by the way one applies their defense and tactics they use to attack their opponent.
The first two fighters he has faced in his boxing career are top boxers, against less professional gamblers, I am sure Francis will win. He has had a good taste of boxing and must by now understand that a boxing professional will always be superior to a fighter from the MMA who wants to box.

It is a good learning experience for him, he made some good money while at it, the hype was surely there.
No doubt  i think this is a good start for him for him to always challenge professional boxers. This last fight he lost to Anthony Joshua was not really a lost for him but it is a fight that will prepare him for the future. Honestly I like his energy as a fighter,  he really want to go above this level and he will surely do well with the way he is going about boxing. Despite Anthony Joshua has more experience than him, before the fight Francis was so confidence that he is going to win the fight,  this is a good energy a good fighter should always have, to always have the mindset of winning.
legendary
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He was the favorite during the first and 2nd fight between Fury, but in the 3rd, Fury ended and proved that he had won all 3 fights. Wilder was a 100% KO artist before he fough Fury, but he just found his kryptonite as he could not KO Fury, the guy got knock down, got up and continue like nothing happen/ I think that's really how strong Fury is, he might not be a KO artist but anyone who would fight him would struggle to beat him especially if they are thinking of pull up an impressive win.

I think the main reason for Wilder's downfall was his lack of resilience and weak mentality. He had a massively inflated ego from the zero-loss and 100% KO record. That was where he was getting his confidence from. The moment that was taken away from him by the draw in their first fight, his mentality collapsed like a house of cards. He realised he was not the "chosen one" destined for success. In the pre-fight interviews he looked scared and broken, Fury was totally dominating him. Before the 3rd, there was even a press conference when he refused to talk at all, which was a massive sign of weakness. Fury even offered to do both parts himself, which was hilarious.

I changed my mind, I want to see Wilder Vs Ngannou now. I think Wilder would be a favourite but it won't be as easy for him as it was for AJ.
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UFC superstars have better contracts now especially to demanding fighters. But still far from boxers' PPV revenue share and their purse guarantees. But maybe boxing superstars are overpaid or their purse guarantees are just too high which is why networks like HBO and Showtime left.

Purse inflation has certainly been detrimental to the sport of boxing. Fighters are less active than ever and less willing to take risks. It is why Canelo is fighting Munguia instead of Benavidez. Why face a bigger and more dangerous fighter when you can still make tens of millions against an inferior opponent. Let’s keep in mind that to even agree to fight Munguia was a difficult ordeal because Canelo’s preference was the less active and presumably easier Jermall Charlo. Fighters like Gervonta Davis have taken cherry picking to an even more extreme level by entirely avoiding any credible threat and trying to gaslight the public into believing his secondary titles are meaningful accomplishments.
hero member
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I think he just need to switch completely from MMA training into boxing if he wants to stay in boxing. Or make a decision where he plans to fight in the future. It is impossible to sit on two chairs at once. For example in that fight, when AJ threw fake jabs or body shots what did Ngannou do? He has tried to swipe them secondary hand (not front, right hand, dunno how it is in proper English), leaving full body open. Plus his stance was way to wide for boxing. Of course Ngannou knows better how to box than me, but AJ with such fake shots quickly found a breach in defense and shoot straight. I am not a super expert in boxing, but that move with right arm he made to avoid punch was totally wrong. For MMA it would do, as he might grab that attacking hand, gloves allow that. But in boxing it is totally wrong to do.
Since Ngannou has been doing MMA fights for years, his muscle memory is actually registered for him. No matter how much boxing training he does, I think it will be revealed that they have memorized MMA because boxing is in this match. In my opinion, Ngannou can stay in boxing, this comes to my mind. He is currently 0-2, but who will he fight next? He has fought the best fighters he can fight, such as Tyson Fury, AJ. The names they will fight with from now on will not attract much attention and this means that the match will not sell. He and the people in his team know best where his career will go. AJ's comeback was extraordinary, his response to all the criticism was his strikes and knockout. In the Tyson Fury-Ngannou match, Tyson Fury was criticized a lot, but I don't even think Fury took that match seriously and prepared for it.
legendary
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I remember Wilder after his draw with Fury entered the rematch his heaviest in his career but was humiliated. He changed team and once again tried his heaviest weight in the third match but was again knocked out. After that Wilder dropped in weight like his old days but was taken to school by Parker. So I wonder how much he weigh in his next fight.

He was the favorite during the first and 2nd fight between Fury, but in the 3rd, Fury ended and proved that he had won all 3 fights. Wilder was a 100% KO artist before he fough Fury, but he just found his kryptonite as he could not KO Fury, the guy got knock down, got up and continue like nothing happen/ I think that's really how strong Fury is, he might not be a KO artist but anyone who would fight him would struggle to beat him especially if they are thinking of pull up an impressive win.

That is the real strength of Fury; he can deliver big punches that can knock someone out with 1 hi but he can also take the big punches (like from Wilder). To be honest, I didn't expect Fury to recover from all the hits he took in the first fight, but somehow he survived and still won 2 of the 3 fights and drawed the other one.

And that is the big difference between AJ and Fury, Fury has so much recuperation power, I agree with you that no boxer can comeback from that devastating big punch from Wilder and yet we see Fury on the canvass, open his eyes and get up. And this can't be teach by any boxing trainer it's either you have it or don't. And Fury also proved that against Ngannou.

Anyhow, I think the OP should lock this thread for good already.

I think we've given our thoughts on this fight, and most likely after this lost, Ngannou will go back to PFL and fight again and then see if he will go back to boxing in the future.
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I remember Wilder after his draw with Fury entered the rematch his heaviest in his career but was humiliated. He changed team and once again tried his heaviest weight in the third match but was again knocked out. After that Wilder dropped in weight like his old days but was taken to school by Parker. So I wonder how much he weigh in his next fight.

He was the favorite during the first and 2nd fight between Fury, but in the 3rd, Fury ended and proved that he had won all 3 fights. Wilder was a 100% KO artist before he fough Fury, but he just found his kryptonite as he could not KO Fury, the guy got knock down, got up and continue like nothing happen/ I think that's really how strong Fury is, he might not be a KO artist but anyone who would fight him would struggle to beat him especially if they are thinking of pull up an impressive win.

That is the real strength of Fury; he can deliver big punches that can knock someone out with 1 hi but he can also take the big punches (like from Wilder). To be honest, I didn't expect Fury to recover from all the hits he took in the first fight, but somehow he survived and still won 2 of the 3 fights and drawed the other one.
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I remember Wilder after his draw with Fury entered the rematch his heaviest in his career but was humiliated. He changed team and once again tried his heaviest weight in the third match but was again knocked out. After that Wilder dropped in weight like his old days but was taken to school by Parker. So I wonder how much he weigh in his next fight.

He was the favorite during the first and 2nd fight between Fury, but in the 3rd, Fury ended and proved that he had won all 3 fights. Wilder was a 100% KO artist before he fough Fury, but he just found his kryptonite as he could not KO Fury, the guy got knock down, got up and continue like nothing happen/ I think that's really how strong Fury is, he might not be a KO artist but anyone who would fight him would struggle to beat him especially if they are thinking of pull up an impressive win.
legendary
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Wilder is overrated, a product of careful matchmaking and was pumping his wins against nobodies. Wilder needs 32 wins before fighting for the belt. Cherry picked opponents for his title defenses. Ducked Wladimir Klitschko for years hostage the belt and preventing the division to have an undisputed champion. Instead of challenging AJ for the undisputed belts he challenged and tried to exploit Fury who just came back from long years of inactivity and mental problems. AJ only need 15 and Usyk only 9 fights before having their title fights and were ready to unify the belts once they became champions.

I think Ngannou being inactive from MMA is taking a huge risk against Ferreira. We'll see if he takes Ferreira because Ngannou even if he lost badly to AJ might still receive bigger purse in boxing.

Don't make me defend Wilder, I don't even like him.
What you wrote is just the nature of boxing. Pretty much every champion has faced accusations of charry picking opponents and avoiding tough fights. The same was said about Klitschko brothers, AJ or Fury. But eventually Wilder did face Fury, who defeated Klitschko and gave a decent fight (the first time around), to be demolished later on. I think he was pretty decent before those losses to Fury, but seems to have fragile mentality.

I think Ngannou being inactive from MMA is taking a huge risk against Ferreira. We'll see if he takes Ferreira because Ngannou even if he lost badly to AJ might still receive bigger purse in boxing.

I would imagine that since the PFL has already announced that Ngannou will be fighting the winner of Ferreira Vs Bader, they must have had at least some sort of pre-agreement if not actual contract already signed, but we'll see.
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Wilder is overrated, a product of careful matchmaking and was pumping his wins against nobodies. Wilder needs 32 wins before fighting for the belt. Cherry picked opponents for his title defenses. Ducked Wladimir Klitschko for years hostage the belt and preventing the division to have an undisputed champion. Instead of challenging AJ for the undisputed belts he challenged and tried to exploit Fury who just came back from long years of inactivity and mental problems. AJ only need 15 and Usyk only 9 fights before having their title fights and were ready to unify the belts once they became champions.

I think Ngannou being inactive from MMA is taking a huge risk against Ferreira. We'll see if he takes Ferreira because Ngannou even if he lost badly to AJ might still receive bigger purse in boxing.

Good hit on Wilder Cheesy Its funny how people consider him being a heavyweight, when he weight less than Usyk, who had to gain to be a heavyweight Cheesy That being light on the feet helped him to be a little bit quicker than his opponents and connect overhands or throw those sweeping blows straight from Alabama. Plus his reach advantage.

Yeah, Usyk was able to transition his body as a heavyweight although still below the usual heavyweight weight. I do not know how Wilder's team assessed his weight. He's too skinny. But maybe his limited skills made his team decide that he continues to weight that way in order to maintain his decent speed. Wilder has nothing to offer except that he is gifted with a powerful punch.

I remember Wilder after his draw with Fury entered the rematch his heaviest in his career but was humiliated. He changed team and once again tried his heaviest weight in the third match but was again knocked out. After that Wilder dropped in weight like his old days but was taken to school by Parker. So I wonder how much he weigh in his next fight.
legendary
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I think he just need to switch completely from MMA training into boxing if he wants to stay in boxing. Or make a decision where he plans to fight in the future. It is impossible to sit on two chairs at once. For example in that fight, when AJ threw fake jabs or body shots what did Ngannou do? He has tried to swipe them secondary hand (not front, right hand, dunno how it is in proper English), leaving full body open. Plus his stance was way to wide for boxing. Of course Ngannou knows better how to box than me, but AJ with such fake shots quickly found a breach in defense and shoot straight. I am not a super expert in boxing, but that move with right arm he made to avoid punch was totally wrong. For MMA it would do, as he might grab that attacking hand, gloves allow that. But in boxing it is totally wrong to do.

It's called parrying in boxing,

Quote
A parry is the defensive technique of deflecting a punch by knocking it in a different direction. The word comes from the French, parez! - a fencing term, imperative of parer "ward off."

https://www.mrdenizates.com/blog/5-types-of-parry-in-boxing

And most likely Joshua and his team have seen this weakness of Ngannou that he will try to block it and so his face will be open for a right straight counter and that's what Joshua did in that 3x knockdown that he score.

Francis wasn't able to recognize it as maybe he is not used to it. However, he can't go full 100% on boxing right now as he has a contract with PFL so he will definitely will go back to MMF again in his next fight.
Totally owned i should say on which even if he tries to parry it but he failed on that 1st round. He should make out some adjustments on which its been clear that AJ had already found that that weakness.
A one clean straight jab in the face would really be definitely be effective or could penetrate that Ngannous defense.  You could see that have right hand cover on the face and the left for parrying but
with those feints then you would really be able to weak or lower your guard down and this is something that AJ does have the edge over the opponent and it was effective.

It is really just that odd that Ngannou didnt really make out some adjustments from that 1st knockdown. He did the same thing on the 2nd and AJ did really made it
that hit hard even more.

Right, but he could be really desperate already, as we can see that his facial reaction when he goes down the first time. And as Mike Tyson says ""Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". So that's what happen to Francis here, once he get punched in the mouth goes to the canvass, plans were thrown out of the window.

So there's no adjustment, while AJ read it beautifully, make feints and Francis fall for it, hence he was able to get him go down three times and the last one was so powerful because it was a counter right, he cocked in like a gun and then blasted Ngannou.
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I think he just need to switch completely from MMA training into boxing if he wants to stay in boxing. Or make a decision where he plans to fight in the future. It is impossible to sit on two chairs at once. For example in that fight, when AJ threw fake jabs or body shots what did Ngannou do? He has tried to swipe them secondary hand (not front, right hand, dunno how it is in proper English), leaving full body open. Plus his stance was way to wide for boxing. Of course Ngannou knows better how to box than me, but AJ with such fake shots quickly found a breach in defense and shoot straight. I am not a super expert in boxing, but that move with right arm he made to avoid punch was totally wrong. For MMA it would do, as he might grab that attacking hand, gloves allow that. But in boxing it is totally wrong to do.
You are right, Joshua immediately started make body shots, apparently his team had worked well before this fight and they saw this flaw in his defense. It worked well for AJ and he also caught Ngannou with a good shot at the end of the first round. For AJ, everything turned out perfectly, in heavyweight fights you can’t miss such blows, because one shot can decide the outcome of the fight, in fact, that’s what happened in this fight, and after this shot he was never able to recover, or maybe he just didn’t knew what to do next.
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