[Boxing] Canelo Alvarez vs Edgar Berlanga - September 14 - page 7.

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Quote from: Kemarit on August 15, 2024, 06:42:18 AM

Now, as what we are expecting, after Munguia, another young fighter, good in paper but is not on the level of Alvarez.

He could win this as he is good at cherry-picking his opponents. However, Canelo has nothing to prove anymore, but if he wants to continue building his legacy, he should keep fighting boxers who are also making their own legacy. And yes, that's the right description of his opponent--good on paper but not in an actual fight, especially against a boxer as experienced and talented as him.

Quote from: Kemarit on August 15, 2024, 06:42:18 AM

Look at Canelo as well not wanting a rematch against Bivol, because he knows that he might lost again.

If he doesn't want this fight, there are plenty of other fighters he could choose that would still satisfy the fans. The thing is, the fighters that fans want him to fight are the ones he doesn't want to face. So, it's clear he doesn't want a big fight anymore, likely because he's already satisfied with what he's earning, even if it leaves us dissatisfied.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 14, 2024, 11:55:38 PM

We have less than a month to go for this fight, and I am surprised that this thread is not that active. I remember the last time when GGG fought against Canelo Alvarez. The thread was hundreds of pages long by this time. So why is the lack of interest this time? Is it because of the lop-sided nature of the fight? Edgar Berlanga is not a strong opponent, and his odds, as per various sportsbooks vary from 8/1 to 9/1. On the other hand, Saul Alvarez has his odds fixed more or less at 1/10 (Betfair has him at 1/18 though).

That was probably Canelo's last great fight, specially the first one against GGG and I thought and for sure many of us here will agree that he lost the first one. And then it took him sometime to give GGG his rematch. GGG needed to go to DAZN under contract and chase GGG.

And after his lost to Bivol, as what we have been saying, he is very careful of who is going to fight because he doesn't want to get another lost that might hurt his career and his legacy. Now, as what we are expecting, after Munguia, another young fighter, good in paper but is not on the level of Alvarez.

Look at Canelo as well not wanting a rematch against Bivol, because he knows that he might lost again.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on August 15, 2024, 02:49:38 AM

Dominating? But he has face boxers that are either green or doesn't have the experience like Munguia, or not that well known like John Ryder, or having someone to go up two weight class from 154 lbs to 168 lbs like Jermell Charlo. And now he will fight that has no experience at all will be his opponent. That's why majority here thinks that this is a cherry pick fight for him again as he doesn't want to lose anymore or be upset like when he fought Bivol.

And what we wanted next for Canelo is to fight Benavidez, but it seems that he is not that interested and now that him and the power broker has someone in a public verbal tussle, this mega fight might not happen.

Thanks for reminding us about Dmitry Bivol. Two years back, he scored an upset win against Canelo Álvarez at the T-Mobile Arena. I would love to see Bivol fighting against Álvarez again, but don't know whether it will happen ever again. The main problem is that Bivol is a Russian citizen, and as far as I know he hasn't yet received the prize money from the 2022 fight. Canelo's manager reportedly approached him for a second fight, but Bivol wants that outside the EU/US region, so that he will not face any issues in receiving his prize money.

https://www.marca.com/en/boxing/2024/06/20/66748971ca474123338b45ca.html

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Quote from: Finestream on August 15, 2024, 01:35:57 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on August 14, 2024, 11:55:38 PM

We have less than a month to go for this fight, and I am surprised that this thread is not that active.

It's not surprising at all. Although Canelo has been dominating recently in his fights, fans want to see more from him, specifically by seeing Canelo fight a legitimate opponent, not someone who isn't a champion and where there's a big disparity in chances based on the bookies' odds. Obviously, Canelo will win this fight as it looks like another cherry-picked fight. So, he can't blame people for not being interested in discussing his fight since they aren't excited about it.

Dominating? But he has face boxers that are either green or doesn't have the experience like Munguia, or not that well known like John Ryder, or having someone to go up two weight class from 154 lbs to 168 lbs like Jermell Charlo. And now he will fight that has no experience at all will be his opponent. That's why majority here thinks that this is a cherry pick fight for him again as he doesn't want to lose anymore or be upset like when he fought Bivol.

And what we wanted next for Canelo is to fight Benavidez, but it seems that he is not that interested and now that him and the power broker has someone in a public verbal tussle, this mega fight might not happen.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 14, 2024, 11:55:38 PM

We have less than a month to go for this fight, and I am surprised that this thread is not that active.

It's not surprising at all. Although Canelo has been dominating recently in his fights, fans want to see more from him, specifically by seeing Canelo fight a legitimate opponent, not someone who isn't a champion and where there's a big disparity in chances based on the bookies' odds. Obviously, Canelo will win this fight as it looks like another cherry-picked fight. So, he can't blame people for not being interested in discussing his fight since they aren't excited about it.

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We have less than a month to go for this fight, and I am surprised that this thread is not that active. I remember the last time when GGG fought against Canelo Alvarez. The thread was hundreds of pages long by this time. So why is the lack of interest this time? Is it because of the lop-sided nature of the fight? Edgar Berlanga is not a strong opponent, and his odds, as per various sportsbooks vary from 8/1 to 9/1. On the other hand, Saul Alvarez has his odds fixed more or less at 1/10 (Betfair has him at 1/18 though).

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Quote from: TravelMug on August 06, 2024, 07:20:20 AM

Quote from: Dave1 on August 06, 2024, 07:16:50 AM

Here is the kick-off, and Canelo was ask why he chooses Berlanga and he says that it's going to be Mexico vs PR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXag6T6P9s

So that reason though is shallow in my opinion, and I don't think that fans is going to look for this fight as like that. It could be their story board, but for us, it's weak and most likely he is just avoiding David Benavidez.

He will not get Crawford next, this is according to HE Turki Alalshikh

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“Just wrapped up an important meeting now with my team, planing for the upcoming fights that we will make for 2024-2025. I decided to disregard the Canelo fight, as I don’t want it anymore.

https://www.boxingscene.com/saul-canelo-alvarez-terence-crawford-ruled-out-by-saudi-arabian-powerbrokers--185231

So in any case, I still think that a Canelo Alvarez vs David Benavidez is going to happen in the future. If Turki Alalshikh is not willing to brokered a Crawford vs Alvarez fight, then the best thing is Alvarez vs Benavidez, all Mexican brawl. And this potential fight could bring tons of money for Canelo if that is what he wanted as a retirement money.

If my memory serves me right, HE says that he is willing to brokered a fight between Canelo and Benavidez. And even if Benavidez goes to 175 lbs, for sure if their will be offered by the Saudi's he will readily accept it.

But first we will see if Canelo even at his age, is still on top of his game, we have seen that Crawford against Madrimov wherein it's the first time that we've seen Bud somewhat vulnerable and there are fans that think Madrimov did enough to steal that fight against him.

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Quote from: Dave1 on August 06, 2024, 07:16:50 AM

Here is the kick-off, and Canelo was ask why he chooses Berlanga and he says that it's going to be Mexico vs PR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXag6T6P9s

So that reason though is shallow in my opinion, and I don't think that fans is going to look for this fight as like that. It could be their story board, but for us, it's weak and most likely he is just avoiding David Benavidez.

He will not get Crawford next, this is according to HE Turki Alalshikh

Quote

“Just wrapped up an important meeting now with my team, planing for the upcoming fights that we will make for 2024-2025. I decided to disregard the Canelo fight, as I don’t want it anymore.

https://www.boxingscene.com/saul-canelo-alvarez-terence-crawford-ruled-out-by-saudi-arabian-powerbrokers--185231

So in any case, I still think that a Canelo Alvarez vs David Benavidez is going to happen in the future. If Turki Alalshikh is not willing to brokered a Crawford vs Alvarez fight, then the best thing is Alvarez vs Benavidez, all Mexican brawl. And this potential fight could bring tons of money for Canelo if that is what he wanted as a retirement money.

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Here is the kick-off, and Canelo was ask why he chooses Berlanga and he says that it's going to be Mexico vs PR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXag6T6P9s

So that reason though is shallow in my opinion, and I don't think that fans is going to look for this fight as like that. It could be their story board, but for us, it's weak and most likely he is just avoiding David Benavidez.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on August 06, 2024, 12:30:14 AM

Some harsh words for Berlanga from BoxingScene writer David Greisman:

Quote from: https://www.boxingscene.com/fighting-words-canelo-alvarez-vs-edgar-berlanga-stench-business--185168

He is undefeated, yes, but he is still undeserving – at least in terms of what he’s done in the ring. Berlanga is a prospect who reached his ceiling some time ago, whose limits are clear, who hasn’t yet shown himself to be a contender, has not proven to be near the level of the other notable names in the 168-pound division.

This is the sad reality about this opponent. Berlanga isn’t near the level of guys Canelo should be fighting. He’s done nothing to deserve being in this position, it was a decision driven purely by business motives and political corruption among the sanctioning organizations.

I do agree with that statement, ever since that defeat against Bivol, Canelo has been carefully cherry picking his opponents. We've seen the boxers that he fought after that and none of them have close to beating him.

Sad reality that we have to accept in the sports that we love. Although when he retired most likely he will be inducted to the boxing HOF, but right now, he could be facing David Benavidez or Morrell to clean up the 168 lbs.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on August 06, 2024, 12:30:14 AM

Some harsh words for Berlanga from BoxingScene writer David Greisman:

Quote from: https://www.boxingscene.com/fighting-words-canelo-alvarez-vs-edgar-berlanga-stench-business--185168

He is undefeated, yes, but he is still undeserving – at least in terms of what he’s done in the ring. Berlanga is a prospect who reached his ceiling some time ago, whose limits are clear, who hasn’t yet shown himself to be a contender, has not proven to be near the level of the other notable names in the 168-pound division.

This is the sad reality about this opponent. Berlanga isn’t near the level of guys Canelo should be fighting. He’s done nothing to deserve being in this position, it was a decision driven purely by business motives and political corruption among the sanctioning organizations.

And that is why boxing in the last couple of decades is somewhat dead as there are fights that we could have witnessed when they are in their prime, but the business of it and then the corruption by some bodies, prevented us from seeing them. And this is the case for Canelo, he might have been thinking of retirement already and so he wants to maximized his last couple of fights with big money before his retirement. And then WBC not forcing him to fight his mandatory of David Benavidez or other bodies to order him his mandatory but instead choosing fighters that has less risk like Munguia and Berlanga this year.

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Some harsh words for Berlanga from BoxingScene writer David Greisman:

Quote from: https://www.boxingscene.com/fighting-words-canelo-alvarez-vs-edgar-berlanga-stench-business--185168

He is undefeated, yes, but he is still undeserving – at least in terms of what he’s done in the ring. Berlanga is a prospect who reached his ceiling some time ago, whose limits are clear, who hasn’t yet shown himself to be a contender, has not proven to be near the level of the other notable names in the 168-pound division.

This is the sad reality about this opponent. Berlanga isn’t near the level of guys Canelo should be fighting. He’s done nothing to deserve being in this position, it was a decision driven purely by business motives and political corruption among the sanctioning organizations.

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Quote from: Viscore on July 28, 2024, 07:26:22 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 28, 2024, 05:20:46 AM

Quote from: Davidvictorson on July 27, 2024, 06:40:59 AM

There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

This will be his biggest pay check I reckon, Canelo remains the cash cow in boxing, despite his recent decline and so fighters are really looking to fight him and win a sweepstakes, just like the time of Manny Pacquaio.

Nah, I doubt that even if he takes the fight seriously he will win by first round knockout. This is a heavier weight so it's very hard to knockout something bigger unless you have the power. Canelo hasn't knockout opponents in years if I remember it right, most of his wins in the latter stage of his career are all in the scorecards. After his lost to Bivol, he become very cautious and not going for a knockout. Although I will say that he takes all his fight seriously.

Sure, it's a big payday for an unknown boxer like Berlanga, so he should also consider this as an opportunity to become popular by beating Canelo in this fight. Unfortunately, despite his undefeated record, many believe this is just a mismatch, as we can confirm from the betting odds of the fight. Canelo really is a cash cow; that's why he isn't worried about whom he fights because the money is already guaranteed as long as he is in the ring against anyone.

I would not say that Berlanga is outcome, he is ranked amongst in the four governing bodies of boxing. So he is a rising star and the plot is that him and Munguia as in the collision course to fight first and then the winner potential getting their payday against Canelo.

But it just so happened that they have already past Canelo, so the buildup to that hype has stop for a while and maybe we can say that they are very luck at their early age (both are less than 30 years old), that they have face the cash cow and then they have a guaranteed money in the line and most likely it will be in millions.

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Quote from: Jating on July 28, 2024, 08:40:21 AM

Quote from: Viscore on July 28, 2024, 07:26:22 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 28, 2024, 05:20:46 AM

Quote from: Davidvictorson on July 27, 2024, 06:40:59 AM

There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

This will be his biggest pay check I reckon, Canelo remains the cash cow in boxing, despite his recent decline and so fighters are really looking to fight him and win a sweepstakes, just like the time of Manny Pacquaio.

Nah, I doubt that even if he takes the fight seriously he will win by first round knockout. This is a heavier weight so it's very hard to knockout something bigger unless you have the power. Canelo hasn't knockout opponents in years if I remember it right, most of his wins in the latter stage of his career are all in the scorecards. After his lost to Bivol, he become very cautious and not going for a knockout. Although I will say that he takes all his fight seriously.

Sure, it's a big payday for an unknown boxer like Berlanga, so he should also consider this as an opportunity to become popular by beating Canelo in this fight. Unfortunately, despite his undefeated record, many believe this is just a mismatch, as we can confirm from the betting odds of the fight. Canelo really is a cash cow; that's why he isn't worried about whom he fights because the money is already guaranteed as long as he is in the ring against anyone.

I would say that Berlanga has some hype on his name already and they touted him to be the next star coming from Puerto Rico. But just like Jaime Munguia, I think he is still very inexperienced compare to Canelo Alvarez that's why others says that this is a mismatch. But what Berlanga holds is the power, and we will see if he can at least move Canelo or make him respect his punching power and not just going straight to him.

I'm talking about hype in the world of boxing, not only in his country. Or maybe I just don't know him, but if he is a top 10 boxer, then sure, he will be hyped, or a boxer that talks a lot like Broner even if he isn't a good boxer. But let's see if he can impose his power on Canelo, as Canelo loves to beat an undefeated boxer who hasn't made a name yet in the sport.

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As for the payday, yes, Berlanga will get his due and probably this is why he agree to fight even if he doesn't have the experienced yet. So let's see how Canelo's chin is, he is getting older, and maybe his chin might crack if Berlanga can hit him with his power.

As he gets older he gets more matured with his style of fight, and that makes him more dangerous as he might not be able to KO his opponent but he could dominate easily. Canelo is only 34 years old, IMO he isn't that old.

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Quote from: Viscore on July 28, 2024, 07:26:22 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 28, 2024, 05:20:46 AM

Quote from: Davidvictorson on July 27, 2024, 06:40:59 AM

There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

This will be his biggest pay check I reckon, Canelo remains the cash cow in boxing, despite his recent decline and so fighters are really looking to fight him and win a sweepstakes, just like the time of Manny Pacquaio.

Nah, I doubt that even if he takes the fight seriously he will win by first round knockout. This is a heavier weight so it's very hard to knockout something bigger unless you have the power. Canelo hasn't knockout opponents in years if I remember it right, most of his wins in the latter stage of his career are all in the scorecards. After his lost to Bivol, he become very cautious and not going for a knockout. Although I will say that he takes all his fight seriously.

Sure, it's a big payday for an unknown boxer like Berlanga, so he should also consider this as an opportunity to become popular by beating Canelo in this fight. Unfortunately, despite his undefeated record, many believe this is just a mismatch, as we can confirm from the betting odds of the fight. Canelo really is a cash cow; that's why he isn't worried about whom he fights because the money is already guaranteed as long as he is in the ring against anyone.

I would say that Berlanga has some hype on his name already and they touted him to be the next star coming from Puerto Rico. But just like Jaime Munguia, I think he is still very inexperienced compare to Canelo Alvarez that's why others says that this is a mismatch. But what Berlanga holds is the power, and we will see if he can at least move Canelo or make him respect his punching power and not just going straight to him.

As for the payday, yes, Berlanga will get his due and probably this is why he agree to fight even if he doesn't have the experienced yet. So let's see how Canelo's chin is, he is getting older, and maybe his chin might crack if Berlanga can hit him with his power.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 28, 2024, 05:20:46 AM

Quote from: Davidvictorson on July 27, 2024, 06:40:59 AM

There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

This will be his biggest pay check I reckon, Canelo remains the cash cow in boxing, despite his recent decline and so fighters are really looking to fight him and win a sweepstakes, just like the time of Manny Pacquaio.

Nah, I doubt that even if he takes the fight seriously he will win by first round knockout. This is a heavier weight so it's very hard to knockout something bigger unless you have the power. Canelo hasn't knockout opponents in years if I remember it right, most of his wins in the latter stage of his career are all in the scorecards. After his lost to Bivol, he become very cautious and not going for a knockout. Although I will say that he takes all his fight seriously.

Sure, it's a big payday for an unknown boxer like Berlanga, so he should also consider this as an opportunity to become popular by beating Canelo in this fight. Unfortunately, despite his undefeated record, many believe this is just a mismatch, as we can confirm from the betting odds of the fight. Canelo really is a cash cow; that's why he isn't worried about whom he fights because the money is already guaranteed as long as he is in the ring against anyone.

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Quote from: Davidvictorson on July 27, 2024, 06:40:59 AM

There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

This will be his biggest pay check I reckon, Canelo remains the cash cow in boxing, despite his recent decline and so fighters are really looking to fight him and win a sweepstakes, just like the time of Manny Pacquaio.

Nah, I doubt that even if he takes the fight seriously he will win by first round knockout. This is a heavier weight so it's very hard to knockout something bigger unless you have the power. Canelo hasn't knockout opponents in years if I remember it right, most of his wins in the latter stage of his career are all in the scorecards. After his lost to Bivol, he become very cautious and not going for a knockout. Although I will say that he takes all his fight seriously.

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There is a lot of money to be made from this fight and Berlanga knows this. He's probably going to be rich after the fight. However, since I know he has struggled to beat his opponents in the past, Ifeel that if Canelo takes this fight seriously, it’ll be over in the first round. Personally, I am not enthusiastic about this match because of Canelo attitude towards David Benavidez. I think he is afraid of Benevidez. I am in doubt that this fight is going to have any impact because of the UFC event at that is happening at that time. Either he's saving Benevidez for the last part of his career because he knows it's a hard fight, or he's simply not ever going to fight him.

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This is a nice article on why Canelo Alvarez is fighting Edgar Berlanga.
Why is Canelo fighting Berlanga? What about Crawford and Benavidez?
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/40625642/canelo-boxing-berlanga-crawford-benavidez

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Why won't Alvarez face Benavidez?
Benavidez would present a dangerous test for Alvarez, but to this point, Alvarez has shown virtually no interest in the matchup boxing fans most want to see. Benavidez is a big, strong volume-puncher and appears to own considerable punch resistance.

Benavidez has also undoubtedly earned a shot at Alvarez. He defeated Caleb Plant and Demetrius Andrade in impressive fashion last year. Benavidez claims Canelo is avoiding a fight with him because he's a rising star of Mexican descent, and a loss would mean Alvarez has passed the torch.

"I think he's scared of him losing and then me taking all the shine," Benavidez told ESPN back in June. "... I don't really think he's scared of me. ... I think he doesn't like me and he doesn't want ... another Mexican to take the shine."

Whatever the case may be, Benavidez is now campaigning at 175 pounds since he realized an Alvarez fight wasn't on the horizon.

Oh yeah, I agree with that. Benavidez is truly a big man and a volume puncher and I don't think Canelo would like to face something like that. He truly earned his shot against him but until now Canelo's camp seems to know that they will be in big trouble if they face him which is why they are avoiding it to happen maybe until Canelo retires.
We don't like it as boxing fans but that's reality if you want to protect your boxer with his reputation. The same as how Mayweather avoided Manny for a long time until Manny got old and that's the only time he accepted the fight but with so much written in the contract for his advantage.

I don't even think it will happen but there's good news written in the article and I think it could be possible.

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Who does that leave for Alvarez to face in a superfight after what amounts to a stay-busy bout vs. Berlanga?
Assuming Alvarez takes care of business against Berlanga in impressive fashion, there's only one dance partner outside of Benavidez who can present a marquee event with Alvarez: Terence Crawford.

This will be fun if ever it materializes and I think it will be big with so many fans of both sides getting excited that will hype in on all social media.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on July 26, 2024, 09:38:33 PM

Quote from: Baofeng on July 26, 2024, 09:13:32 PM

And with Canelo not wanting to fight his IBF mandatory in William Scull, IBF decided to stripped him of his belt. So he is no longer undisputed at Middleweight. And I lauded the IBF for doing that.

WBC should also follow suit as well, they should have stripped Canelo of the WBC belt long time ago for not fighting their mandatory in David Benavidez.

Canelo Alvarez stripped of IBF title after agreeing to fight Edgar Berlanga.

William Scull is not the most deserving challenger but at this point you can’t justify letting Canelo hold the belts hostage, like the WBC is allowing him to do. If Canelo is not going to fight the best, the division needs to move on and have some fresh faces try to establish themselves. Eventually somebody will rise up and become the new king of super middleweight.

Right, but we have to give it to IBF, they have a mandatory fighter and even if he is not well known, their champion will have to oblige and take his mandatory otherwise it will be a complete slap on the organization themselves.

And at the very least, it makes the IBF more exciting, maybe they will have to relegate Scull at the interim, or maybe have him fight the next rank boxer which is Vladimir Shishkin for the regular belt. Interesting that Berlanga is rank 4th in the IBF so maybe he will have a crack in the future if he losses to Canelo in this fight.

Topic: [Boxing] Canelo Alvarez vs Edgar Berlanga - September 14 - page 7. (Read 1752 times)