[BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS) - page 64.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 03:32:54 PM

Quote from: Lohoris on July 31, 2013, 03:27:17 PM

Who cares, this isn't going to happen!
If you don't trust him, you shouldn't be holding his shares in the first place...

I trust him... but I heart he is an heavy drinker and gets into fights.... Tongue

As long as he wins, I'm fine!

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Lohoris on July 31, 2013, 03:27:17 PM

Who cares, this isn't going to happen!
If you don't trust him, you shouldn't be holding his shares in the first place...

I trust him... but I heart he is an heavy drinker and gets into fights.... Tongue

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: eltopo on July 31, 2013, 03:26:59 PM

We should discuss this if it's not paid back tomorrow...

Yep sure, BTC world right Grin

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 03:22:08 PM

What if the loan is not paid back within 24 hours, do we get EXTRA daily interests?

Who cares, this isn't going to happen!
If you don't trust him, you shouldn't be holding his shares in the first place...

eltopo

full member

Activity: 230

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 03:22:08 PM

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 31, 2013, 03:18:49 PM

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:59:34 PM

What if you cannot pay back the loan within 24 hours. I will be expecting a daily 20 BTC interest.

You're out drinking tonight and maybe something stupid happens, you can never know for sure....

He's already addressed that. He has reserves far in excess of 400BTC.

People please try to read...

What if the loan is not paid back within 24 hours, do we get EXTRA daily interests?

We should discuss this if it's not paid back tomorrow...

eltopo

full member

Activity: 230

Merit: 100

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:20:43 PM

Just giving disclosure of something.

Some of you may know there's over-subscription of the Labcoin IPO and that it's being done in a strange way (everyone getting orders partially filled at a fixed price). That means you only get sales of a fraction of what you bid for - rather than the usual all-or-nothing approach.

I can't buy them with DMS - as would need investor approval to do so. What I AM doing is lending 400 BTC to myself at 5% for 24 hours. So 420 BTC will be repaid within the next day.

Most of it will never be used - it's just to bump my order so I actually get the few hundred BTC-worth I personally wanted. Will send back most of it right after IPO processes - and the rest as soon as I sell a few. If I don't get the price I want by midday tomorrow for some I'll pull the rest back from my personal J-D account.

So it's basically as safe a loan as you can get - most of it will never be used for anything at all and the bit that will be used is backed by my own cash. It's a 20 BTC bonus for SELLING on their next dividend in effect.

EDIT: to be clear, when I say it's for 24 hours I actually mean it'll all be back before tomorrow's report.

I guess your investment in Labcoin is just for short term? Do you think there's a big difference between e.g. ActiveMining and Labcoin?

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 31, 2013, 03:18:49 PM

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:59:34 PM

What if you cannot pay back the loan within 24 hours. I will be expecting a daily 20 BTC interest.

You're out drinking tonight and maybe something stupid happens, you can never know for sure....

He's already addressed that. He has reserves far in excess of 400BTC.

People please try to read...

What if the loan is not paid back within 24 hours, do we get EXTRA daily interests?

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:59:34 PM

What if you cannot pay back the loan within 24 hours. I will be expecting a daily 20 BTC interest.

You're out drinking tonight and maybe something stupid happens, you can never know for sure....

He's already addressed that. He has reserves far in excess of 400BTC.

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

What if you cannot pay back the loan within 24 hours. I will be expecting a daily 20 BTC interest.

You're out drinking tonight and maybe something stupid happens, you can never know for sure....

Rannasha

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:48:39 PM

Quote from: Lohoris on July 31, 2013, 02:41:25 PM

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:35:51 PM

What if you make a huge loss at IPO and are not able to pay back the 400 BTC loan and the daily 20 BTC interest?

this:

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:32:32 PM

To be clear, even if my personal J-D investment all vanished AND labcoin immediately scammed and their shares went to 0 the loan would be back before tomorrow's report.

Personally, I'll enjoy this bonus to the dividend! : )

Whilst I'm disclosing stuff may as well disclose that I also cashed in 5500 MINING and 5500 SELLING form my personal holdings. Had been planning to hold them longer but am using the cash for that IPO. I still have more value of personal DMS holdings left than that 170 BTC I just cashed out - that's one of the ways I could repay even in worst case scenarios.

Off out for beer/live music now - expect a nice boost in NAV/U tomorrow.

More NAV/U! Must have more NAV/U!

In other news, the wording of the DMS contract conflicts with the JD investment.

Quote

Investments (including loans to other companies) must meet ALL of the following criteria:

They must be BTC denominated.
They must have a precise face value with guaranteed redemption at that face value (other than small administrative fees)
They must anticipate paying a return of at least 10% per year
They must be backed by significant assets making the risk of default absolutely minimal
Issuer must have no history of defaulting, paying substantially late or failing to deliver on promises/guarantees made by themselves or companies managed/operated by them.
Issuer must have a significant track record of successfully managing business(es) in accordance with their contracts and with a profitable outcome for investors.

Specifically, item 2 and 3 are an issue. The JD investment has no guaranteed redemption whatsoever. Also, no yearly return is anticipated by the issuer/manager at all. The yearly return may fluctuate greatly, depending on ratio between amount wagered and amount invested per unit of time.

Personally, I have no objections to the JD investment and I voted in favour when the motion was put up. But that doesn't take away that there's an discrepancy here.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Lohoris on July 31, 2013, 02:41:25 PM

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:35:51 PM

What if you make a huge loss at IPO and are not able to pay back the 400 BTC loan and the daily 20 BTC interest?

this:

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:32:32 PM

To be clear, even if my personal J-D investment all vanished AND labcoin immediately scammed and their shares went to 0 the loan would be back before tomorrow's report.

Personally, I'll enjoy this bonus to the dividend! : )

Whilst I'm disclosing stuff may as well disclose that I also cashed in 5500 MINING and 5500 SELLING form my personal holdings. Had been planning to hold them longer but am using the cash for that IPO. I still have more value of personal DMS holdings left than that 170 BTC I just cashed out - that's one of the ways I could repay even in worst case scenarios.

Off out for beer/live music now - expect a nice boost in NAV/U tomorrow.

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Lohoris on July 31, 2013, 02:41:25 PM

Personally, I'll enjoy this bonus to the dividend! : )

Yeah, but all the bitcoin (that I don't have) to buy more SELLING is in the IPO Grin

Rannasha

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Me too, do this more often

NAV/U increases are what makes me sleep well at night

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Lytse on July 31, 2013, 02:35:51 PM

What if you make a huge loss at IPO and are not able to pay back the 400 BTC loan and the daily 20 BTC interest?

this:

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:32:32 PM

To be clear, even if my personal J-D investment all vanished AND labcoin immediately scammed and their shares went to 0 the loan would be back before tomorrow's report.

Personally, I'll enjoy this bonus to the dividend! : )

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

If it's not clear what the loan is being used for, it's being used to inflate a bid I make so I actually get to spend all (or msot of) my own funds. The loan itself isn't being spent (or not much of it - I can't tell for sure exactly how much excess demand there is).

My guess is it'll be around a 2.5:1 over-suscription on the IPO. So if I want to spend 100 BTC I have to put in 250 BTC of bids. I want to spend more than that - but can't get cash there in time to bid excessively - so am just borrowing so I can spend my OWN cash then return the loan soon as my order is partly filled. As it's possible the filling will run into the loan a bit I gave myself 24 hours - as I'm about to head out I won't be able to sort it anyway until tomorrow (will be drinking so not gonna risk moving significant sums around when I get back). At present there's bids for over 17 million shares with only 7 million available - and there'll be more bids going up all the time until the actual sale. So I may STILL not get to buy all I planned to anyway.

Lytse

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:20:43 PM

Just giving disclosure of something.

Some of you may know there's over-subscription of the Labcoin IPO and that it's being done in a strange way (everyone getting orders partially filled at a fixed price). That means you only get sales of a fraction of what you bid for - rather than the usual all-or-nothing approach.

I can't buy them with DMS - as would need investor approval to do so. What I AM doing is lending 400 BTC to myself at 5% for 24 hours. So 420 BTC will be repaid within the next day.

Most of it will never be used - it's just to bump my order so I actually get the few hundred BTC-worth I personally wanted. Will send back most of it right after IPO processes - and the rest as soon as I sell a few. If I don't get the price I want by midday tomorrow for some I'll pull the rest back from my personal J-D account.

So it's basically as safe a loan as you can get - most of it will never be used for anything at all and the bit that will be used is backed by my own cash. It's a 20 BTC bonus for SELLING on their next dividend in effect.

EDIT: to be clear, when I say it's for 24 hours I actually mean it'll all be back before tomorrow's report.

What if you make a huge loss at IPO and are not able to pay back the 400 BTC loan and the daily 20 BTC interest?

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: twentyseventy on July 31, 2013, 02:26:59 PM

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:20:43 PM

Just giving disclosure of something.

Some of you may know there's over-subscription of the Labcoin IPO and that it's being done in a strange way (everyone getting orders partially filled at a fixed price). That means you only get sales of a fraction of what you bid for - rather than the usual all-or-nothing approach.

I can't buy them with DMS - as would need investor approval to do so. What I AM doing is lending 400 BTC to myself at 5% for 24 hours. So 420 BTC will be repaid within the next day.

Most of it will never be used - it's just to bump my order so I actually get the few hundred BTC-worth I personally wanted. Will send back most of it right after IPO processes - and the rest as soon as I sell a few. If I don't get the price I want by midday tomorrow for some I'll pull the rest back from my personal J-D account.

So it's basically as safe a loan as you can get - most of it will never be used for anything at all and the bit that will be used is backed by my own cash. It's a 20 BTC bonus for SELLING on their next dividend in effect.

EDIT: to be clear, when I say it's for 24 hours I actually mean it'll all be back before tomorrow's report.

I'm assuming you'll still have enough to cover if J-D sees another Celeste swing into the negative?

I have enough to cover in a few different places - just J-D is the fastest one to get cash out of. I still have investment in DMS that would cover the whole amount that is being spent. And my personal LTC-ATF shares are worth a lot more . Plus I have other investments, funds on Bitfinex etc. Only way it vanishes is if BTC-TC takes it - in which case DMS has rather bigger problems anyway as ALL our cash would be gone.

To be clear, even if my personal J-D investment all vanished AND labcoin immediately scammed and their shares went to 0 the loan would be back before tomorrow's report.

twentyseventy

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 02:20:43 PM

Just giving disclosure of something.

Some of you may know there's over-subscription of the Labcoin IPO and that it's being done in a strange way (everyone getting orders partially filled at a fixed price). That means you only get sales of a fraction of what you bid for - rather than the usual all-or-nothing approach.

I can't buy them with DMS - as would need investor approval to do so. What I AM doing is lending 400 BTC to myself at 5% for 24 hours. So 420 BTC will be repaid within the next day.

Most of it will never be used - it's just to bump my order so I actually get the few hundred BTC-worth I personally wanted. Will send back most of it right after IPO processes - and the rest as soon as I sell a few. If I don't get the price I want by midday tomorrow for some I'll pull the rest back from my personal J-D account.

So it's basically as safe a loan as you can get - most of it will never be used for anything at all and the bit that will be used is backed by my own cash. It's a 20 BTC bonus for SELLING on their next dividend in effect.

EDIT: to be clear, when I say it's for 24 hours I actually mean it'll all be back before tomorrow's report.

I'm assuming you'll still have enough to cover if J-D sees another Celeste swing into the negative?

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Just giving disclosure of something.

Some of you may know there's over-subscription of the Labcoin IPO and that it's being done in a strange way (everyone getting orders partially filled at a fixed price). That means you only get sales of a fraction of what you bid for - rather than the usual all-or-nothing approach.

I can't buy them with DMS - as would need investor approval to do so. What I AM doing is lending 400 BTC to myself at 5% for 24 hours. So 420 BTC will be repaid within the next day.

Most of it will never be used - it's just to bump my order so I actually get the few hundred BTC-worth I personally wanted. Will send back most of it right after IPO processes - and the rest as soon as I sell a few. If I don't get the price I want by midday tomorrow for some I'll pull the rest back from my personal J-D account.

So it's basically as safe a loan as you can get - most of it will never be used for anything at all and the bit that will be used is backed by my own cash. It's a 20 BTC bonus for SELLING on their next dividend in effect.

EDIT: to be clear, when I say it's for 24 hours I actually mean it'll all be back before tomorrow's report.

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: eltopo on July 31, 2013, 11:26:58 AM

Quote from: Deprived on July 31, 2013, 10:45:32 AM

Report will be at usual time (right after dividend gos out and I've checked everything balances). This is just a brief note in advance so I don't have to type it later.

A total of 5000 each of MINING and SELLING were bought back by DMS today. The effect of that has been that NAV/U after today's dividend will be higher than they were at the start of the day (as we buy back at a bit below NAV/U). If we have more sell-backs then I'll need to pull some of our investment out of J-D so as not to go over 10% invested there.

The sell-backs are working as intended - they provide a mechanism to prevent total collapse of prices when someone heavily dumps one or the other of MINING/SELLING (as soon as it falls a bit below sell-back price people step in to place bids and make a profit selling back pairs).

So, how many of the 5000 did you buy back from yourself? 3000? Grin

Actually yeah - I sold back 3000 MINING + SELLING myself (at same price as anyone else obviously). Good guess

Topic: [BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS) - page 64. (Read 198958 times)