bustabit – The original crash game - page 116.

quickmaffs

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Quote from: dragonmaster2 on February 26, 2018, 09:45:12 AM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 26, 2018, 09:35:56 AM

My argument is that he was able to bet more than 1% of the bankroll. Am I lying?

No, I am not. He was able to bet more than 1% and RHavar and devans allowed this. They are the liars. Prove me otherwise without lying again. Use facts instead of insults you two criminals.

0.75%/1% is the max bet per account. 1.5% is the max bet per game. This was known since the beginning of V2.

Furthermore, a player isn't limited to playing on one account, that's been known since V1 and hasn't changed for V2.

You claim they are "lying", but they never claimed that 1% is the max bet a single person over multiple accounts can hit. That doesn't even make sense with the current game logic, and I can't even begin to think how that would even be possible.

RHavar had the audacity to lie about me, lie about what I had said, and insult me. I'd like it for him to answer for himself. Thank you.

dragonmaster2

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 26, 2018, 09:35:56 AM

My argument is that he was able to bet more than 1% of the bankroll. Am I lying?

No, I am not. He was able to bet more than 1% and RHavar and devans allowed this. They are the liars. Prove me otherwise without lying again. Use facts instead of insults you two criminals.

0.75%/1% is the max bet per account. 1.5% is the max bet per game. This was known since the beginning of V2.

Furthermore, a player isn't limited to playing on one account, that's been known since V1 and hasn't changed for V2.

You claim they are "lying", but they never claimed that 1% is the max bet a single person over multiple accounts can hit. That doesn't even make sense with the current game logic, and I can't even begin to think how that would even be possible.

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: RHavar on February 26, 2018, 04:23:46 AM

Quote from: JackpotRacer on February 26, 2018, 01:33:39 AM

sorry I dont understand what you mean. please be so kind and explain why you think that RHavar did not have same risk or had less risk than other Investors?

thx

The guy is just an idiot, I am investing on the same terms as everyone else. Ironically the whale just busted and everyone (including me) in the bankroll should now be at a considerable profit. People like quickmaffs take the term "the house always wins" too literally, invest and then start crying at the slightest down turn in profit.

Some thing I used to always tell players was "the casino isn't a charity" when they thought there was free money to be had from gambling, but the same really can be said for investors. The site isn't giving money to investors as some act of kindness, it is paying them in +EV to accept a lot of risk and eat a lot of variance.

Anyway, as of now investors are up 280 BTC, I doubt anyone has cause for complaint Grin

More lies. You think you can try to change my narrative, put words in my mouth, and insult me to try and cover this up? You are clearly a dishonest person.

Let's circle back to this later and remain focused on my one claim.

The whale (singular), as quoted by you, was betting maximum bets.

My argument is that he was able to bet more than 1% of the bankroll. Am I lying?

No, I am not. He was able to bet more than 1% and RHavar and devans allowed this. They are the liars. Prove me otherwise without lying again. Use facts instead of insults you two criminals.

JackpotRacer

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1014

All Games incl Racer and Lottery game are Closed

Quote from: RHavar on February 26, 2018, 04:23:46 AM

Quote from: JackpotRacer on February 26, 2018, 01:33:39 AM

sorry I dont understand what you mean. please be so kind and explain why you think that RHavar did not have same risk or had less risk than other Investors?

thx

The guy is just an idiot, I am investing on the same terms as everyone else. Ironically the whale just busted and everyone (including me) in the bankroll should now be at a considerable profit. People like quickmaffs take the term "the house always wins" too literally, invest and then start crying at the slightest down turn in profit.

Some thing I used to always tell players was "the casino isn't a charity" when they thought there was free money to be had from gambling, but the same really can be said for investors. The site isn't giving money to investors as some act of kindness, it is paying them in +EV to accept a lot of risk and eat a lot of variance.

Anyway, as of now investors are up 280 BTC, I doubt anyone has cause for complaint Grin

thx for explaining

luckily I understand variance

congrats to Investors and owner for 280 BTC profit

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: JackpotRacer on February 26, 2018, 01:33:39 AM

sorry I dont understand what you mean. please be so kind and explain why you think that RHavar did not have same risk or had less risk than other Investors?

thx

The guy is just an idiot, I am investing on the same terms as everyone else. Ironically the whale just busted and everyone (including me) in the bankroll should now be at a considerable profit. People like quickmaffs take the term "the house always wins" too literally, invest and then start crying at the slightest down turn in profit.

Some thing I used to always tell players was "the casino isn't a charity" when they thought there was free money to be had from gambling, but the same really can be said for investors. The site isn't giving money to investors as some act of kindness, it is paying them in +EV to accept a lot of risk and eat a lot of variance.

Anyway, as of now investors are up 280 BTC, I doubt anyone has cause for complaint Grin

JackpotRacer

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1014

All Games incl Racer and Lottery game are Closed

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 10:04:35 PM

Quote from: RHavar on February 25, 2018, 08:31:54 PM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 07:44:55 PM

That's a bold faced lie.

You were the first investor because you knew when it was launching and originally received 10% dilution fees from everyone.

I was certainly an early investor, but I don't see how that changes anything -- especially on account that Daniel reimbursed everyone for the 10% dilution fees out of pocket. Anyway, my net profit/loss from dilution fees is pretty negligible. Not sure exactly, but I suspect it's < 1% of my investing loss (which with hindsight my investment has been the single biggest financial mistake of my life Tongue

) But I'm not going to complain, I knew the risks and based on the current volumes it's seems pretty likely the site will get out of the red in the next 6 months (in fact, I've recently seen it in positive profit briefly twice so far during the crazy whale action).

Regardless, I really don't know what more you expect. The site is already running with no commissions, did a pretty big refund to investors and lowered the worst-case kelly. If you're not prepared to absorb (a lot of) variance, don't join the bankroll.

It shows that you lied. Doesn't matter if it you claim it was negligible or not. Don't claim that you had the same risk and playing level as everyone else when you didn't.

What more can we expect? That you don't lie.

sorry I dont understand what you mean. please be so kind and explain why you think that RHavar did not have same risk or had less risk than other Investors?

thx

dragonmaster2

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 26, 2018, 12:03:08 AM

You have forced investors into getting margin called by misrepresenting the kelly criterion exposure, even though you say "bustadice[/bustabit] keeps track of your offsite investment and automatically adjusts your leverage to ensure that you are always exposed to the optimal amount of risk.". This is a lie.

You claimed that a single player could only bet 1% of the bankroll, when in fact, a player can bet over three accounts (ie: whatevs, whatevvs, whatevvs) and win up to 1.5% of the bankroll.

You've taken no steps to prevent this from happening. You have not warned investors that this has been actively taken place for a while and that their offsite investments are exposed to higher criterion levels that they agreed to based on your ~~words~~ lie!

You and RHavar keep lying and you've cost investors millions of dollars while you have profited over a million dollars yourself.

It was made pretty clear that the onsite/offsite is meant to represent your investment onsite and offsite. Pretty sure both Daniel and Ryan also made it clear that you probably shouldn't set the offsite to something you don't have, otherwise you would be over-risking yourself.

A single player/account can only win 0.75/1% of the bankroll before automatically being cashed out. It was always clear that the max profit for the entire game was 1.5%, before everyone is cashed out. This info has always been in the FAQs.

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: devans on February 25, 2018, 11:35:28 PM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 11:00:28 PM

This site is a sham.

It does not follow 1x kelly and all investors will eventually lose all their money.

RHavar and devans lied about the kelly criteria all while getting their fixed share. They both need to be tagged here and outted on Reddit.

Could you clarify what you think I lied about, please? We openly discussed the reasoning behind accepting some >1x Kelly rounds in this very thread as early as two weeks ago. The site makes no secret of risking 1.5 % of the bankroll per game either.

The worst possible scenario of a single player controlling all bets in a round and targeting a single multiplier has a risk of 1.5x Kelly for investors. At this risk investors still have an expectation that their investment will grow, assuming they don't abuse the offsite system to overleverage.

I am the only the one who–normally–receives any fixed commission from bustabit. A little over a week ago I suspended the commission in order to help investors recover and prop up the max bet and profit.

Quote from: devans on February 25, 2018, 11:35:28 PM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 11:00:28 PM

This site is a sham.

It does not follow 1x kelly and all investors will eventually lose all their money.

RHavar and devans lied about the kelly criteria all while getting their fixed share. They both need to be tagged here and outted on Reddit.

Could you clarify what you think I lied about, please? We openly discussed the reasoning behind accepting some >1x Kelly rounds in this very thread as early as two weeks ago. The site makes no secret of risking 1.5 % of the bankroll per game either.

The worst possible scenario of a single player controlling all bets in a round and targeting a single multiplier has a risk of 1.5x Kelly for investors. At this risk investors still have an expectation that their investment will grow, assuming they don't abuse the offsite system to overleverage.

I am the only the one who–normally–receives any fixed commission from bustabit. A little over a week ago I suspended the commission in order to help investors recover and prop up the max bet and profit.

You have forced investors into getting margin called by misrepresenting the kelly criterion exposure, even though you say "bustadice[/bustabit] keeps track of your offsite investment and automatically adjusts your leverage to ensure that you are always exposed to the optimal amount of risk.". This is a lie.

You claimed that a single player could only bet 1% of the bankroll, when in fact, a player can bet over three accounts (ie: whatevs, whatevvs, whatevvs) and win up to 1.5% of the bankroll.

You've taken no steps to prevent this from happening. You have not warned investors that this has been actively taken place for a while and that their offsite investments are exposed to higher criterion levels that they agreed to based on your ~~words~~ lie!

You and RHavar keep lying and you've cost investors millions of dollars while you have profited over a million dollars yourself.

devans

sr. member

Activity: 528

Merit: 368

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 11:00:28 PM

This site is a sham.

It does not follow 1x kelly and all investors will eventually lose all their money.

RHavar and devans lied about the kelly criteria all while getting their fixed share. They both need to be tagged here and outted on Reddit.

Could you clarify what you think I lied about, please? We openly discussed the reasoning behind accepting some >1x Kelly rounds in this very thread as early as two weeks ago. The site makes no secret of risking 1.5 % of the bankroll per game either.

The worst possible scenario of a single player controlling all bets in a round and targeting a single multiplier has a risk of 1.5x Kelly for investors. At this risk investors still have an expectation that their investment will grow, assuming they don't abuse the offsite system to overleverage.

I am the only the one who–normally–receives any fixed commission from bustabit. A little over a week ago I suspended the commission in order to help investors recover and prop up the max bet and profit.

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

This site is a sham.

It does not follow 1x kelly and all investors will eventually lose all their money.

RHavar and devans lied about the kelly criteria all while getting their fixed share. They both need to be tagged here and outted on Reddit.

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: RHavar on February 25, 2018, 08:31:54 PM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 07:44:55 PM

That's a bold faced lie.

You were the first investor because you knew when it was launching and originally received 10% dilution fees from everyone.

I was certainly an early investor, but I don't see how that changes anything -- especially on account that Daniel reimbursed everyone for the 10% dilution fees out of pocket. Anyway, my net profit/loss from dilution fees is pretty negligible. Not sure exactly, but I suspect it's < 1% of my investing loss (which with hindsight my investment has been the single biggest financial mistake of my life Tongue

) But I'm not going to complain, I knew the risks and based on the current volumes it's seems pretty likely the site will get out of the red in the next 6 months (in fact, I've recently seen it in positive profit briefly twice so far during the crazy whale action).

Regardless, I really don't know what more you expect. The site is already running with no commissions, did a pretty big refund to investors and lowered the worst-case kelly. If you're not prepared to absorb (a lot of) variance, don't join the bankroll.

It shows that you lied. Doesn't matter if it you claim it was negligible or not. Don't claim that you had the same risk and playing level as everyone else when you didn't.

What more can we expect? That you don't lie.

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 25, 2018, 07:44:55 PM

That's a bold faced lie.

You were the first investor because you knew when it was launching and originally received 10% dilution fees from everyone.

I was certainly an early investor, but I don't see how that changes anything -- especially on account that Daniel reimbursed everyone for the 10% dilution fees out of pocket. Anyway, my net profit/loss from dilution fees is pretty negligible. Not sure exactly, but I suspect it's < 1% of my investing loss (which with hindsight my investment has been the single biggest financial mistake of my life Tongue

) But I'm not going to complain, I knew the risks and based on the current volumes it's seems pretty likely the site will get out of the red in the next 6 months (in fact, I've recently seen it in positive profit briefly twice so far during the crazy whale action).

Regardless, I really don't know what more you expect. The site is already running with no commissions, did a pretty big refund to investors and lowered the worst-case kelly. If you're not prepared to absorb (a lot of) variance, don't join the bankroll.

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: RHavar on February 24, 2018, 05:32:38 PM

Quote from: Lionidas on February 24, 2018, 05:09:53 PM

Let me guess who that reasonably large investor is...
Could it be you? The former site owner?

Yes, I was speaking about myself when I said: "as a reasonably large investor in the bankroll".

And just to be clear, I am doing it own volition (not as part of the sale or anything) and under the same terms as everyone else. I'm a bit of a fan of +EV deals, and trust Daniel with the amount I have invested. (Although don't take that as an endorsement). I've only invested what I'm ok with losing, (which is a real possibility with an extreme variance investment like BaB and an angry whale).

I've also similarly invested in other casino bankrolls in the past (as well as things like margin lending), when I thought it made sense.

That's a bold faced lie.

You were the first investor because you knew when it was launching and originally received 10% dilution fees from everyone.

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -553 Bitcoin

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: Lionidas on February 24, 2018, 05:09:53 PM

Let me guess who that reasonably large investor is...
Could it be you? The former site owner?

Yes, I was speaking about myself when I said: "as a reasonably large investor in the bankroll".

And just to be clear, I am doing it own volition (not as part of the sale or anything) and under the same terms as everyone else. I'm a bit of a fan of +EV deals, and trust Daniel with the amount I have invested. (Although don't take that as an endorsement). I've only invested what I'm ok with losing, (which is a real possibility with an extreme variance investment like BaB and an angry whale).

I've also similarly invested in other casino bankrolls in the past (as well as things like margin lending), when I thought it made sense.

Lionidas

hero member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1012

Quote from: RHavar on February 24, 2018, 04:32:37 PM

Quote from: DarkDays on February 24, 2018, 03:41:35 PM

A site owner, who cannot finance his own game, taking a profit while the investors that finance the entire operation take a loss will never sit right with me.

Hm? Well Daniel hasn't been taking a commission for a while now. But as a reasonably large investor in the bankroll, I would have no problems even if he was. His job is to keep the site running, improve it, keep bringing in players etc. And it's investors job to eat the variance. He shouldn't really need to worry about things out of his control (like if players or investors are getting unlucky)

While I would never encourage people to invest (after all, it's more of a good-odds gamble than anything) it seems like a perfectly reasonable arrangement to me, with investors having no commitment and an expected 75% of the sites profit. And in fact, I think is more beneficial for the long-term prospects of the site (e.g. if you want to start hiring and have an advertising budget .. having a stable income is pretty important).

But I think it's worth emphasizing, the whole reason the site gives investors so much of it's expected profits is precisely as compensation for risks like this. Assuming there's no funny business happening, I don't think anyone has any legitimate reason to be complaining.

Let me guess who that reasonably large investor is...
Could it be you? The former site owner?
It would make sense since you have said you would continue to be a partner in bustadice and I am thinking you have said before you would be a co owner of the new iteration of the bustabit site as well.

RHavar

legendary

Activity: 1463

Merit: 1886

Quote from: DarkDays on February 24, 2018, 03:41:35 PM

A site owner, who cannot finance his own game, taking a profit while the investors that finance the entire operation take a loss will never sit right with me.

Hm? Well Daniel hasn't been taking a commission for a while now. But as a reasonably large investor in the bankroll, I would have no problems even if he was. His job is to keep the site running, improve it, keep bringing in players etc. And it's investors job to eat the variance. He shouldn't really need to worry about things out of his control (like if players or investors are getting unlucky)

While I would never encourage people to invest (after all, it's more of a good-odds gamble than anything) it seems like a perfectly reasonable arrangement to me, with investors having no commitment and an expected 75% of the sites profit. And in fact, I think is more beneficial for the long-term prospects of the site (e.g. if you want to start hiring and have an advertising budget .. having a stable income is pretty important).

But I think it's worth emphasizing, the whole reason the site gives investors so much of it's expected profits is precisely as compensation for risks like this. Assuming there's no funny business happening, I don't think anyone has any legitimate reason to be complaining.

DarkDays

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1189

Quote from: Samarkand on February 24, 2018, 04:30:43 AM

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 23, 2018, 05:03:46 PM

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

This is the beauty of charging a fixed commission while investors are exposed
to all the variance Grin

However, the outcome for investors is still easily within the possible range of outcomes.
Variance can be crazy in a game with a very small house edge and high betting limits.
Both requirements are definitely fulfilled by Bustabit.

Bustadice was at a loss for the investors for several months after the site launch and suddenly
1 losing day of a whale was enough to turn around 4 months of investor losses.
It is entirely possible that the situation at Bustabit could play out similar or that the situation
for the investors gets even worse as players continue to perform above expectation.

A site owner, who cannot finance his own game, taking a profit while the investors that finance the entire operation take a loss will never sit right with me.

Samarkand

sr. member

Activity: 658

Merit: 282

Quote from: quickmaffs on February 23, 2018, 05:03:46 PM

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

This is the beauty of charging a fixed commission while investors are exposed
to all the variance Grin

However, the outcome for investors is still easily within the possible range of outcomes.
Variance can be crazy in a game with a very small house edge and high betting limits.
Both requirements are definitely fulfilled by Bustabit.

Bustadice was at a loss for the investors for several months after the site launch and suddenly
1 losing day of a whale was enough to turn around 4 months of investor losses.
It is entirely possible that the situation at Bustabit could play out similar or that the situation
for the investors gets even worse as players continue to perform above expectation.

Lionidas

hero member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1012

Quote from: devans on February 23, 2018, 06:16:45 AM

Quote from: Cluster2k on February 17, 2018, 05:36:38 PM

Great restyling, I like it a lot. Loving the public bankroll too.

Is the shiba chat bot still active?

Shiba is back and available in chat again!

Noticed him pop back up last night while betting a bit.
Someone called "bot" is on there too and thought it was shiba but then it was talking to the players and not just canned answers that shiba would give out to certain commands.
Some big players last night betting 20btc at a time were there briefly as well last night.
You can tell they had alot of bitcoin to wager with because the maximum site profit was at 18btc at one point but then back to where it was before they arrived and starting betting within an hour again. Undecided

quickmaffs

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Devans: +124 Bitcoin
Investers: -531 Bitcoin

Topic: bustabit – The original crash game - page 116. (Read 61604 times)