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Topic: bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game - page 24. (Read 293500 times)

legendary
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
Edit: I mixed up my terminology. Valor is what gamblers get. Silver is what investors get.

New version of bustabit looks pretty cool, and the "valor" seems interesting.

Why are investor profits realized as silver and need to be fused with valor to get BTC though? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I'm trying to avoid repeating the mistakes I made in moneypot, so I guess here's the backstory: in MP I could've provided the bankroll myself (and/or shared it with BaB), but I intentionally didn't as I thought it would be a community-building feature type thing. I also assumed it'd be less stressful if I wasn't a big investor and didn't need to worry about variance.

However what ended up happening is:  a) Risking other peoples money is actually more stressful than risking your own.  b) Almost all substantial investor logged in only ~twice. Once to invest, once to divest.

During the ~6 (?) months before I sold the project, I believe those investors made something like 30-40% return in that time period. The whole thing left me thinking that if I were to do it again, I would structure it radically differently.

--

So taking from that, my original idea was that only active gamblers could invest in BaB, or there would be certain wagering requirements. Then after generalizing a bit, I came up with the idea: for every 1 bit of investing profit you make, you need to have wagered 100 bits. But if you're an investor, and not a gambler -- you can buy that "wagering requirement" from actual gamblers (and thus subsidize their play).

So as you can probably tell by now, "wagering requirement" is known as "valor". Gamblers automatically get 1 valor for every 100 bits they wager. And "investing profit" is known as "silver". And they are freely tradable between players, with the ultimate goal of community building. To also further this goal, investors profits will be automatically divested each day. This way investors need to login to every day and interact with the community if they want to experience the magic of compounding returns (i.e. investors profits are divested in the form of valor, and they need to either trade or gamble to get silver in order to convert it to bits, to reinvest).

From gamblers point of view, the new setup is pretty great. You effectively will get a ~50% off the house edge, selling your valor to investors

 

Quote
You also noted that the database will be reset frequently, that means testnet coin balances will be lost as well as accounts, right?

Yeah, although if you need/want your testcoins back, just shoot me an email and your address and I'll happily send

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Here's an small issue I found (I don't like using github, so I'll post it here)

Thanks, I'll take a look soon. Something came up in my personal life that's taken me out of action for the last couple of days and will stop me working on it for at least a few more. However, I'm still checking in on things  and making sure all the prod support tickets are handled and everything is running smoothly. But there probably isn't going to be any new commits this week.


Quote
Edit: Does instant withdraw do anything?

I should probably create a different thread for the dev site, so people don't think there's a production problem. But the withdrawals there don't seem to be working at all, i think I broke something pretty badly. I'll be fixing that soon =)
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
So due to popular demand, I'm releasing the current dev branch of bustabit v2:

http://dev.bustabit.com

It uses bitcoin testcoins instead of real bitcoins, and comes with a faucet (you can also google "bitcoin testcoin faucet") and deposit them in your account.

You can find the source here:
https://github.com/bustabit/bustabit-client

It's completely full of bugs, and half-done stuff. The best thing is to make issues on that repository -- make note of your bustabit username, so you can be rewarded with some vanity stuff in the indeterminate future.

Also pull requests accepted  Grin




Edit: in an unrelated note, here's a game dump of the last 10M plays: https://ln.sync.com/dl/0c20bf440#78hvmigq-xjiymwmj-vqcdt46n-is8vhdnc


Much appreciated!
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 3282
New version of bustabit looks pretty cool, and the "valor" seems interesting. Why are investor profits realized as silver and need to be fused with valor to get BTC though? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

You also noted that the database will be reset frequently, that means testnet coin balances will be lost as well as accounts, right?



Here's an small issue I found (I don't like using github, so I'll post it here)

http://i.imgur.com/i9dFPEz.gifv

Gives an error when you try to bet a multiplier of 1.1x, but still makes the bet. Same happens with 1.01x, haven't tested others yet.

I also tried placing a bet with 1k tBTC as well as 100tBTC at 1.01x, but it would say "Placing Bet" and then do nothing.



Edit: Does instant withdraw do anything? I added the 10 bits, but my withdraw was still in the queue and I had to pay another 100 bits.
legendary
Activity: 2557
Merit: 1886
February 28, 2017, 12:22:44 AM
So due to popular demand, I'm releasing the current dev branch of bustabit v2:

http://dev.bustabit.com

It uses bitcoin testcoins instead of real bitcoins, and comes with a faucet (you can also google "bitcoin testcoin faucet") and deposit them in your account.

You can find the source here:
https://github.com/bustabit/bustabit-client

It's completely full of bugs, and half-done stuff. The best thing is to make issues on that repository -- make note of your bustabit username, so you can be rewarded with some vanity stuff in the indeterminate future.

Also pull requests accepted  Grin




Edit: in an unrelated note, here's a game dump of the last 10M plays: https://ln.sync.com/dl/0c20bf440#78hvmigq-xjiymwmj-vqcdt46n-is8vhdnc
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
February 24, 2017, 11:30:12 AM
Nah, the strategy tester doesn't track bonuses. No point in using that if I want to test if my script can be +EV...

Perhaps we've misunderstood each other. I wasn't talking about a strategy tester, but suggesting that you run your script locally and connect it directly to bustabit instead of through the browser.

Oh I see what you mean. Yeah, that's the next step. Don't have time with work right now unfortunately. Plus I actually want to run some analysis on the game results, but it's impossible to get a download of the game files
sr. member
Activity: 528
Merit: 368
February 24, 2017, 11:13:15 AM
Nah, the strategy tester doesn't track bonuses. No point in using that if I want to test if my script can be +EV...

Perhaps we've misunderstood each other. I wasn't talking about a strategy tester, but suggesting that you run your script locally and connect it directly to bustabit instead of through the browser.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 500
February 24, 2017, 11:07:41 AM
This was my first gambling website where i learn on how to gambling without reading mechanics i just follow the graph and test with the faucet (way back time) i always earn bits from faucet where i use that to bet and win bits now im deposit atleast 0.1 per week and making my bankrole doubled then withdrew i love to see my net profit positive.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
February 24, 2017, 10:44:33 AM
Understood. I have my own script that managed to stay +EV for about a week before it ran out of RAM and crashed, but I don't really play all that much. I'm more interested in the theory side of it

I assume that you've been running your bot in the strategy editor and–since it's running out of RAM–keeps track of historical data in some way. For what it's worth you could connect your bot directly to bustabit. This method has the advantage of being able to persist data to disk in between gambling sessions among others.

BaBot, a stripped-down version of Shiba, provides an easy example of how to accomplish that.

Nah, the strategy tester doesn't track bonuses. No point in using that if I want to test if my script can be +EV...
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
February 24, 2017, 08:43:32 AM
libertynow, is RoberBaron your account? same bets and cashouts.
Yes, it's an account I've used for testing for a long, long time.  Probably ran more than 100 different scripts on that account. :-)
Why did RoberBaron fall from +4btc to -2btc?
Have u any expierence with percentage bet (percentage of bank)?
What algorithm do u use to cashout instanly?

I was betting to high a % of my bankroll. About 1%, which was not low enough to account for variance. 

Sorry, I will not be sharing any details on the actual algorithm itself with the possible exception of a little more detail to large investors.
member
Activity: 126
Merit: 22
February 24, 2017, 05:35:20 AM
libertynow, is RoberBaron your account? same bets and cashouts.
Yes, it's an account I've used for testing for a long, long time.  Probably ran more than 100 different scripts on that account. :-)
Why did RoberBaron fall from +4btc to -2btc?
Have u any expierence with percentage bet (percentage of bank)?
What algorithm do u use to cashout instanly?
sr. member
Activity: 528
Merit: 368
February 24, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
Understood. I have my own script that managed to stay +EV for about a week before it ran out of RAM and crashed, but I don't really play all that much. I'm more interested in the theory side of it

I assume that you've been running your bot in the strategy editor and–since it's running out of RAM–keeps track of historical data in some way. For what it's worth you could connect your bot directly to bustabit. This method has the advantage of being able to persist data to disk in between gambling sessions among others.

BaBot, a stripped-down version of Shiba, provides an easy example of how to accomplish that.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
February 24, 2017, 03:13:44 AM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.

This is all assuming that enough games can be +EV right? Given where the whales cash out, not every game is +EV?

Yes, it's an average.

Right, but theoretically you could have a scenario where it's impossible to play +EV, no? Does your bot account for that?

Sorry, this is about as far as I'm willing to go on explaining the bot.  This is a competitive game after all. ;-)

Understood. I have my own script that managed to stay +EV for about a week before it ran out of RAM and crashed, but I don't really play all that much. I'm more interested in the theory side of it
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
February 23, 2017, 08:38:45 PM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.

This is all assuming that enough games can be +EV right? Given where the whales cash out, not every game is +EV?

Yes, it's an average.

Right, but theoretically you could have a scenario where it's impossible to play +EV, no? Does your bot account for that?

Sorry, this is about as far as I'm willing to go on explaining the bot.  This is a competitive game after all. ;-)
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
February 23, 2017, 07:01:07 PM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.

This is all assuming that enough games can be +EV right? Given where the whales cash out, not every game is +EV?

Yes, it's an average.

Right, but theoretically you could have a scenario where it's impossible to play +EV, no? Does your bot account for that?
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189
February 23, 2017, 06:38:43 PM

You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

You don't know what "EV" means.  You probably mean "house edge", but as been explained many times in this thread, the house edge can be overcome due to the nature of the bonus system.  You also don't know what "gamblers fallacy" means. 
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
February 23, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.

This is all assuming that enough games can be +EV right? Given where the whales cash out, not every game is +EV?

Yes, it's an average.
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 502
February 23, 2017, 06:10:51 PM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.

This is all assuming that enough games can be +EV right? Given where the whales cash out, not every game is +EV?
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
February 23, 2017, 05:47:53 PM
You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.

1) The bot isn't "beating EV", it's constantly making positive EV decisions which assuming bankroll is large enough and given enough time, turns into actual profit.  Like what Ryan is doing with the actual site itself or what any other casino does....

2) Actually, gamblers fallacy is "the mistaken belief that, if something happens more frequently than normal during some period, it will happen less frequently in the future" and vice versa.

3) There's nothing magical about the EDGE bot.  I'm a professional coder and have put a lot of time into fine tuning the algorithm to adjust for max EV situations...and I'm not saying it can't be beat sometime in future by someone else or another bot, but right now, it's playing positive EV.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
February 23, 2017, 05:32:11 PM
With all these new bustabit clones spawning its a surprise they still as popular as ever. I guess its the trust in the name and the brand. You can't beat that.

Still trusting in the EV?

His bot seems to be doing reasonably well. It's wagered wagered 501.34 BTC, but got 8.1453 BTC in bonuses. His average cash out is around 1.28x, so that puts him pretty firmly in +EV territory.

Thanks for that confirmation, Ryan.  I was starting to wonder if my EV calculation was wrong.

You calculate it in real-time?

The bet amount has the EV stored in the last 3 digits. For example, right now the bet amount is 17,117.  The "1" in the hundreds spot means the EV is positive.  The last two digits, "17" means that it's currently running a minimum EV of .17%/bet.  According to the stats Ryan provided, EV is actually much higher around .40%.  8.1453 / 501.34 = 1.6247% - 1% (0x bust every 101 games) - .218% (house edge at 128) = .407%/bet

Every once in a while, I start and stop the bot.  So that EV stored in the bet amount is for that session.  Previous stats are stored at the NXT forum here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488

Thanks for the question.
LibertyNow
Still trusting in the EV?

His bot seems to be doing reasonably well. It's wagered wagered 501.34 BTC, but got 8.1453 BTC in bonuses. His average cash out is around 1.28x, so that puts him pretty firmly in +EV territory.

Thanks for that confirmation, Ryan.  I was starting to wonder if my EV calculation was wrong.

You calculate it in real-time?

The bet amount has the EV stored in the last 3 digits. For example, right now the bet amount is 17,117.  The "1" in the hundreds spot means the EV is positive.  The last two digits, "17" means that it's currently running a minimum EV of .17%/bet.  According to the stats Ryan provided, EV is actually much higher around .40%.  8.1453 / 501.34 = 1.6247% - 1% (0x bust every 101 games) - .218% (house edge at 128) = .407%/bet

Every once in a while, I start and stop the bot.  So that EV stored in the bet amount is for that session.  Previous stats are stored at the NXT forum here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488

Thanks for the question.
LibertyNow

You can't beat the EV that is why it is an EV. Just gamblers fallacy to believe a bot can magically do what a human cannot.
full member
Activity: 145
Merit: 100
February 23, 2017, 05:26:16 PM
libertynow, is RoberBaron your account? same bets and cashouts.

Yes, it's an account I've used for testing for a long, long time.  Probably ran more than 100 different scripts on that account. :-)
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