Topic: Butterfly Labs (BFL) raided today by U.S. Marshalls 9/19/14 - page 7. (Read 20404 times)

I asked on the BFL forums after I saw a few posts deleted on the subject. BFL Josh came forward and replied to my post. Make of it what you will.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/the-monarch-discussion/8836-reports-bfl-have-been-raided-us-marshals-official-statement-request.html#post86110

Has anyone posted actual links to real news articles yet or is this just "news" from anonymous forum posts and reddit? Until then, it's all bullshit.

Interesting thread, lol.

But what really makes my day... I'm finally done with all of this BFL madness and preorder bullshit! I don't have a single active order with anyone. I've finally received all of my preorders and now I don't have to worry, plan and find space/power for another piece of gear. I'll just sit and hash and watch my earnings decline to zero over the next month or two.

And then... BTC goodbye! I'll keep a few in my wallet just in case the price rises again but I won't be heartbroken and suicidal if it crashes. This is just too stressful although it's also been kind of fun too. But honestly not worth the stress anymore.  

it wasn't an actual raid, but they didn't invite the FTC. those reportedly arrested didn't even show up for work. the officers came in, gathered the employees, an attorney for District Court explained what was happening, they were given papers to sign, asked a few questions, and then sent home with only their belongings.

given the nature of their investigations and a number of individual and class-action lawsuits that also point to violations of FTC guidelines, it's tough for me to imagine a recovery. Even if they went back to work, it would only be for a short time, and under different leadership. In effect, BFL is operated by the US government until the courts decide what to do with the company and its administration.

given the time-sensitive nature of the product, if things go as well as they can, the company will be liquidated, and anyone with a legitimate order who doesn't receive their product will receive at least a partial refund. perhaps they will open the warehouse to ship what units they have, and then auction off the chips. Any way it shakes down, it is going to be rough on the customers. i'm also convinced that the whole process is going to take a very long time, since the result of any of the upcoming court cases could have strong influences on the others.

on another note, just before I began this post, i checked to see if it was possible to order anything on BFL's website, and I was able to get to the last step without being shut down. i'm not sure what the really means with regard to what happened Friday. the US DID go to BFL HQ and shut it down. two people were taken into custody, but it was likely more like simply being processed and being put out on bail so you can flee. I doubt either actually spent time in a jail cell.The hard proof that this event took place will surface. who knows if the FTC will ultimately decide BFL is in compliance, doubtful, but who knows. but still, every day that BFL can ship their products, the stronger the FTC's case will actually become. If they are not forced out of business by legal means, i believe the combination of this incident, plus upcoming class-action suits, and likely some individual suits will drive them out of business.

BFL, KNC and Cointerra, all immoral businesses that keep the prebought hardware untill they made the most profit and only then sent it to their customers, or as a like to call them, victims.... That people still buy HW with them amazes me.

I'm just saying if they played the books correctly...any losses would be BFL losses...any xfer of equip or assets to EMC miner pool could be listed as
xfered but *unpaid* ..mine with them a bit ...give them back to BFL ....games could be played if they have legit reciepts for miners sold on the
inside....well if the paid for the miners even if they jumped the que as employees or investors by 6 months to a year...they could do that

then when it all goes to sh*t....BFL the corporation for bad loans or selling equip at cost to insiders/investors/employees way way before us
could claim they were independent

also all that pre-order money they are giving back ..my suspicion is a lot of it was used on the nimbus mining pool etc....they had a year
to hash with this pre-order money in various cloud mining operations...again if they bled it off the main company BFL....and they did it
correctly and BFL goes under (bankrupt) and takes the fall...all personal assets and other corp assets like EMC and hashing etc outside
of BFL would get washed....it would look slippery as hell...but with BFL they could claim a long track record of being 'stupid' rather then
criminal etc

ie like the bankers in the banking crisis...only 1 guy went to jail..and that is because he felt guilty....even thou all the actions of the bank
for a period of years ONLY  helped the individuals running it...not the bank that was insolvent

now truthfully I don't think the folks at BFL are this smart nor would their ego allow failure etc....BUT they could have pulled
(or tried) to pull something off like this..moving assets around on the claim of bad business decisions etc

just gives me the hebbie jebbies to think that such a plot ...(hey were stupid not crooks!) the line that our monarch product was SOOOOO
cutting edge ...oops we failed....and BFL takes the fall as a corporation on all the bad derisions (for the corp) ....but all the good results
go to EMC Pool ...the pre-order money mining for say 1 year on Nimbus and personal miners for themselves mining as they stalled for a
year with our pre-order money

if I was an Evil Genius..that is how I woulda played it internally for the last year with all that nice slushy.....pre-order cash and no refunds
and all the access to equip ahead of everyone else..either by purchase (with receipt to show bona fides later) or more risky as a 'testing purposes
loan"

anyway like I said they are likely just Evil and not Evil Genius's but hey ......just saying......In that even more of a puzzle then the above is
HOW the mangaged to not ship ANY product less then 9 months late since at least nov/dec 2012!

so in reflection of how long they have been doing this...the above fiction I just wrote on BFL Corp looks a little more real/scary imho

again I'm likely wrong just gives me the hebiee jeebies thinking about such a possible end game ...where the lose the battle over BFL
going bankrupt but win the war personally

again just hopefully telling nightmare stories here
 

I doubt very much that BFL is insolvent. I just received my bonus Monarch on Wednesday (shipped Monday). And I also received a BTC refund on Monday for the balance of my original order.

Hardly sounds like they aren't at least trying to ship and/or refund which you would expect if they were going out of business.

True that! It's not like BFL could've set up some other facility to produce miners using parts paid for from their investomers, then either sell or mine with said miners unbeknownst to anybody. For that to have happened, he would've had parts sent to a completely different location then BFL's current facility.

e.g.

http://www.importgenius.com/importers/bf-labs-inc


Okay, so China shipped to the wrong address. It's not like Sonny Vleisides lives there or anything.

http://radaris.com/~Sonny-Vleisides/292519188


Okay, okay, so obviously there's at least two Sonny Vleisides in the world, for surely this one wouldn't had received highly needed parts at the time at his residence, when shipping them to BFL's normal facility would have sufficed.

Ergo, since you offered up no proof, there probably was no second facility, nor did BFL sneak out miners through the back door, thus the government has made a grave error in busting BFL's balls.

I can't wait to suck Josh's dick to show him how sorry I am for ever doubting him... and lying.

True or false? Im confused. 

Even if BFL is insolvent, and even if the government goes after them personally, it is highly likely that they snuck mining rigs out the back door and setup personal mining farms. Assuming they didn't convert the mined Bitcoins to FIAT any time soon, it would be near impossible to trace, no?

Care to take another stab at it if the following is true?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gvnhm/butterfly_labs_bfl_raided_by_us_marshals_today/cknd72z

No, I'm not suggesting that they are insolvent. I however think that they aren't competitive and don't have much value as a going concern that will continue to release products for many years into the future. In particular I don't think that BFL can be sold to a 3rd party or subject to a management buyout.

If not Ch.7 then trusteeship followed by a regular liquidation. If they really sit on a boatload of cash then that surplus may forfeited or used to compensate past customers.

In any case I don't think all employees will be immediately laid-off and the premises cleaned by hazardous waste disposal contractors.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8864685

 

y'all copy cats? ^  lmao

Wrong play book! I say BFL will take the route that Laissez Faire City did and have Johann Gevers as the liquidator so that others that come after us, say ten years down the road, can come back here and quote this thread, wondering why nary a Monarch purchaser was never reimbursed from the "raid" forward, just like those Sonny Vleisides fleeced during his LFC reign have yet to see one cent of their investments, and I'm not talking about his lottery scheme, for those old farts will die waiting for whatever.

Besides, foregoing Chapter 7 worked out so well for HashFast, why should BFL pursue it when other great courses of actions are abound?

Looks like Josh's former EMC is about to take a hit as well, with miners exiting that wonderful pool.

http://www.offshorealert.com/forums.aspx?g=posts&t=37064


Not once did JG mention Sonny Vleisides' full name during the liquidation process, opting to always referring to him as the son of Jame Ray Houston, Sonny's real dad.

And, if you think that's funny, LFC had it's own Satoshi Nakamoto at the time: http://web.archive.org/web/20000301124449/http://zolatimes.com/V3.44/dmt1.html

Hell, they even their own version of Atlas.



Yes, LFC was entirely built by Sonny Vleisides and his real dad, James Ray Houston, a.k.a. The Silver King (look it up). LFC came complete with its own internet money and uber-private email.

if they were smart they have a 'loan' on an invoice from every piece of equip that went to EMC pool and personal stuff to BFL owners

alas BFL is bankrupt and they are just one of the creditors...ie the made BFL a shell corp moved the cash out...declare BFL kaput

keep personal assets EMC etc

viola!

leave BFL the corporation holding the bag on bankruptcy protect all their personal assets and EMC pool

anyway just speculating that it could have been a bankruptcy shut down rather then a criminal one

but then again WTF do I know I ordered from BFL .did get a refund thru more luck then skill....

Are you suggesting they're insolvent? How or why would that happen if they're sitting on boatloads of cash.

Theoretically speaking BFL could be forced through Chapter 7, and that would mean retaining some (or even most) employees through the initial liquidation stage.

hey it may not have been the marshals or feds etc

It could simply be BFL is being served for debts/obligations etc...if that is the case ...imho that was the plan by BFL execs from the get go..have BFL the corp take the fall
on liability and losses as all the hardware etc was bought/moved to EMC and personal use..that is why you incorporate so the corporation takes the fall

I will be so pissed if BFL the corp takes the fall on this and the execs walk as was done by bankers in the banking crisis....personal wealth is untouched..the corp
takes the hit

crap just scared myself ...damn scammers may still be playing the system