Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders - page 33.

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: Endlessa on May 25, 2013, 10:09:29 AM

I find it appalling and hypocritical, that Xian, after coming into shoutbox begging to keep his order and telling BFL he's deleting all posts he, himself, referred to as inflammatory against bfl (not josh), wants to run around stirring the pot. All the while, only confirming that BFL's decision was a good one.

To be blunt, Josh started it. I just called him out in his behavior. To see the COO of a company I gave almost $5k USD in preorders to, acting the way he did, was something I have never experienced before. It is not normal. I've already admitted I overreacted in retrospect. I can't change the past.

Quote

Then props himself up as the "big" BFL martyr righteously standing up for the loyal customer, while spewing conspiracy theories and shouting "SCAM" from the four corners of the forums. the whole thing is ridiculous and absurd (imo).

Absolutely false. I have never claimed BFL was a scam.

mezzomix

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Activity: 2730

Merit: 1263

Quote from: Endlessa on May 25, 2013, 09:53:29 AM

It's not about complaining, it's about being abusive and damaging to their business.

What's BFLs business? It's definitely not building and shipping ASIC miners to customers. Maybe it's collecting money and telling customers fairy tales?!

Xian01

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1067

Christian Antkow

Quote from: Endlessa on May 25, 2013, 09:53:29 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 25, 2013, 08:38:51 AM

So you support the position that customers who complain should be refunded without seeking or opting in to a refund?

The reality distortion field around you is so intense that I think I can see the back of my own head.

--------------

Lets say you really do support this position. Then when should a customer legitimately complain, nottm28? Are you the type of person that only sees things in black and white?

===========
Days waiting: 190+

Loop Resolution:

IF complain,

Then, issue refund.

Else, remain silent.

END Loop.

It's not about complaining, it's about being abusive and damaging to their business. They tolerate lots of complaining. In forums, shout box, etc. but if I had a customer that was damaging my business, yes I'd shit kick them to the curb and never look back. So Yes, I support them in their decision and freedom to choose what kinds of people they want to do business with. . ..It's shocking to me that in a deregulated free market supportive community such as bitcoin, so many people would raise a stink eye. Is it fair? no, but tough tits, free market isn't fair, it all choice. I don't understand how people performing general ass-hattery (imo) seem so surprised when people respond in kind or think they are entitled to immunity.

Again imo, suggesting to people to not purchase product or that a business is disreputable is a direct assault on their vitality. I personally think they were being kind by politely terminating the relationship.

Josh has flat out stated these forums are not important to their business and has trolled and been abusive to their customers here.

Please reconcile that for me. Or is that yet another one of his lies ?

Endlessa

sr. member

Activity: 335

Merit: 250

Quote from: DobZombie on May 25, 2013, 09:55:25 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on May 16, 2013, 12:49:02 PM

TL;DR: Josh "Inaba" Zerlan, COO of Butterfly Labs, taunts Bitcointalk forum members. I call him out on his behavior in an incendiary fashion. He tells Jody to cancel my orders (#s 2030, 2158 & 100033486). Check posting history. Is this the kind of company you want to be doing business with in America ?

I am absolutely appalled at that. Totally bloody disgusted.

I find it appalling and hypocritical, that Xian, after coming into shoutbox begging to keep his order and telling BFL he's deleting all posts he, himself, referred to as inflammatory against bfl (not josh), wants to run around stirring the pot. All the while, only confirming that BFL's decision was a good one. Then props himself up as the "big" BFL martyr righteously standing up for the loyal customer, while spewing conspiracy theories and shouting "SCAM" from the four corners of the forums. the whole thing is ridiculous and absurd (imo).

DobZombie

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 532

Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum

Quote from: Xian01 on May 16, 2013, 12:49:02 PM

TL;DR: Josh "Inaba" Zerlan, COO of Butterfly Labs, taunts Bitcointalk forum members. I call him out on his behavior in an incendiary fashion. He tells Jody to cancel my orders (#s 2030, 2158 & 100033486). Check posting history. Is this the kind of company you want to be doing business with in America ?

I am absolutely appalled at that. Totally bloody disgusted.

Endlessa

sr. member

Activity: 335

Merit: 250

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 25, 2013, 08:38:51 AM

So you support the position that customers who complain should be refunded without seeking or opting in to a refund?

The reality distortion field around you is so intense that I think I can see the back of my own head.

--------------

Lets say you really do support this position. Then when should a customer legitimately complain, nottm28? Are you the type of person that only sees things in black and white?

===========
Days waiting: 190+

Loop Resolution:

IF complain,

Then, issue refund.

Else, remain silent.

END Loop.

It's not about complaining, it's about being abusive and damaging to their business. They tolerate lots of complaining. In forums, shout box, etc. but if I had a customer that was damaging my business, yes I'd shit kick them to the curb and never look back. So Yes, I support them in their decision and freedom to choose what kinds of people they want to do business with. . ..It's shocking to me that in a deregulated free market supportive community such as bitcoin, so many people would raise a stink eye. Is it fair? no, but tough tits, free market isn't fair, it all choice. I don't understand how people performing general ass-hattery (imo) seem so surprised when people respond in kind or think they are entitled to immunity.

Again imo, suggesting to people to not purchase product or that a business is disreputable is a direct assault on their vitality. I personally think they were being kind by politely terminating the relationship.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: nottm28 on May 25, 2013, 08:12:36 AM

Nor would I offer any choice if one of my customers slated me so publically, so often. I'd give them their money back and be done with them...

Let me know what business you run, so I can stay far away from it.

PuertoLibre

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Activity: 1890

Merit: 1003

Quote from: nottm28 on May 25, 2013, 08:12:36 AM

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 25, 2013, 06:52:00 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on May 25, 2013, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: DBG on May 25, 2013, 04:07:40 AM

"There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal

This is pretty much exactly what happened; I responded back saying I was not interested in, nor did I ask for a refund.

When Xian told them he didn't want a refund, they forced it on him by "terminating" their relationship with him. They didn't offer any choice.

Nor would I offer any choice if one of my customers slated me so publically, so often. I'd give them their money back and be done with them...

So you support the position that customers who complain should be refunded without seeking or opting in to a refund?

The reality distortion field around you is so intense that I think I can see the back of my own head.

--------------

Lets say you really do support this position. Then when should a customer legitimately complain, nottm28? Are you the type of person that only sees things in black and white?

===========
Days waiting: 190+

Loop Resolution:

IF complain,

Then, issue refund.

Else, remain silent.

END Loop.

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 25, 2013, 06:52:00 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on May 25, 2013, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: DBG on May 25, 2013, 04:07:40 AM

"There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal

This is pretty much exactly what happened; I responded back saying I was not interested in, nor did I ask for a refund.

When Xian told them he didn't want a refund, they forced it on him by "terminating" their relationship with him. They didn't offer any choice.

I get such a warm and fuzzy feeling from BFL, don't you?

nottm28

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: PuertoLibre on May 25, 2013, 06:52:00 AM

Quote from: Xian01 on May 25, 2013, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: DBG on May 25, 2013, 04:07:40 AM

"There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal

This is pretty much exactly what happened; I responded back saying I was not interested in, nor did I ask for a refund.

When Xian told them he didn't want a refund, they forced it on him by "terminating" their relationship with him. They didn't offer any choice.

Nor would I offer any choice if one of my customers slated me so publically, so often. I'd give them their money back and be done with them...

rograz

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Activity: 575

Merit: 500

Quote from: k9quaint on May 24, 2013, 10:59:07 PM

A chip that can do ~2GH can't be used to make a device that needs 2 chips that can each do 2.5GH.

Probably the opposite if they decide to do something like this. They are stuck with chips that cant go high enough to end up in singles/little singles but can do more than 2.5Gh/s so why not offer people a factory OC, all it would cost them is another firmware version.

PuertoLibre

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Activity: 1890

Merit: 1003

Quote from: Xian01 on May 25, 2013, 06:22:15 AM

Quote from: DBG on May 25, 2013, 04:07:40 AM

"There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal

This is pretty much exactly what happened; I responded back saying I was not interested in, nor did I ask for a refund.

When Xian told them he didn't want a refund, they forced it on him by "terminating" their relationship with him. They didn't offer any choice.

Xian01

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1067

Christian Antkow

Quote from: DBG on May 25, 2013, 04:07:40 AM

"There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal

This is pretty much exactly what happened; I responded back saying I was not interested in, nor did I ask for a refund.

DBG

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Activity: 119

Merit: 100

Digital Illustrator + Software/Hardware Developer

Okay so I just came across this today and only read the first page, so please keep that in mind (aka if what I'm about to say has been brought up, feel free to tell me "stfu"... in fact, feel free to say that for any reason Tongue

).

Xian01, while I am not agreeing with your orders seeming being put into a cancel queue without a formal request from you to do so, couldn't you have just replied to that e-mail from Jody saying something along the lines of "There has been a misunderstanding, my venting has been mistaken as not wanting the products I ordered, please keep my orders in place." or was that insulting enough/final straw kind of deal.

Personally I've expressed disappointment in BFL on their own forums as well as others, however I did not invest in the product line to make money but to support the Bitcoin community and BFL (even though I didn't get a chance to own their FPGA product, they had previously shown their ability to ship - to the best of my knowledge).

I have always understood how others (esp. those who paid with Bitcoins originally) could have a much higher emotional/financial connection to the multiple delays and issues that have prevented shipment to date.

Edit: Apperently a mod edited part of my post with a strike-through. I meant to say I understand how others feel, not that BFL did. Hope that clears things up.

k9quaint

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Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bassclef on May 24, 2013, 10:39:38 PM

Apparently you can now upgrade your jalapeño by 2GH for an additional $100.

Nope, no cash flow problems.

I'd say they have binning issues with wide performance variance between chips. A chip that can do ~2GH can't be used to make a device that needs 2 chips that can each do 2.5GH.

I would expect the +$100 is so they can use chips from the lowest bin. That also means each chip cost some serious $$ and are in short supply. Otherwise they would just make hot Jalapeno's with 3 chips @ 2GH each for ~6GH and ship them out.

miter_myles

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Code:

[10:50 PM]   Ivan Frimmel : seems this is been televised live to a troll thread near you

[10:51 PM]   Ivan Frimmel : Josh, can you text me more pics without a shirt on now?? umm, beside a jally of course.. yeah..

wtf

bassclef

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Apparently you can now upgrade your jalapeño by 2GH for an additional $100.

Nope, no cash flow problems.

Xian01

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1067

Christian Antkow

Quote from: miter_myles on May 24, 2013, 10:29:57 PM

Appears this Ivan character loves to slurp some Josh dong:

Code:

[10:29 PM]   BFL_Josh : I don't know off the top of my head.
[10:29 PM]   Ivan Frimmel : have you got all the show cooties off ?  :) takes days to wash those off your clothes :)

Very unfortunate. I thought Ivan was smarter than that. Sycophantry is serious business to some.

miter_myles

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

Appears this Ivan character loves to slurp some Josh dong:

Code:

[10:29 PM]   BFL_Josh : I don't know off the top of my head.

[10:29 PM]   Ivan Frimmel : have you got all the show cooties off ?  :) takes days to wash those off your clothes :)

k9quaint

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Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: creativex on May 24, 2013, 04:59:54 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on May 24, 2013, 04:16:48 PM

Quote from: nottm28 on May 24, 2013, 04:09:23 PM

For example:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auction-2-bfl-64-ghs-single-preorders-214965

2 buyers for 2 60GH/s singles - 50BTC on the first bid - isn't that about 5 x the price you paid...

No escrow = bad sign. Technically, Xian doesn't need his BFL orders to auction them off with no escrow. Cheesy

Confused. The link is to Garr's auction, and I think he's correct, he should not need an escrow agent with his impeccable history of trustworthiness.

Well. It is cheaper than an Avalon Batch 3.
But. Nicksasa had a good rep until notroll.in pool imploded. I would always do escrow for large transactions, unless I know the counterparty personally.

Topic: Butterfly Labs Forced "On Hold For Refund" for all my Single SC orders - page 33. (Read 59178 times)