Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 61. (Read 415663 times)

The problem isn't really getting a judgment in a case of blatant fraud like this, but collecting against a bunch of fucking bums.  Look at the principals of BFL.  Convicts, trolls, just a bunch of fucking losers.  What are the odds any of these clowns have assets to collect?

No one would dare take on BFL they're untouchable and most people are weak and scared of courts. Not to mention pussies!!!

There's three levels of laws about refunds.  There are federal consumer protection laws, generally pretty anemic.

Most of the effective laws are state laws.  All states have laws based on the Uniform Commercial Code.  Many states, though, have their own consumer protection and anti-fraud laws.  In some of these states, you can collect double or triple damages from fraudulent practices.

To the extent BFL has marketed their products to these states, they are probably subject to long-arm jurisdiction and can be sued in that state by anyone with the gumption to walk into their nearest county courthouse.

E.g., are you in New Jersey?  Are you being refused a refund?  Google New Jersey Consumer Fraud Act.  See that phrase "treble damages" showing up in the results?  That's lawyerspeak for triple.  You can fuck their shit up.

Contacting police should be a last resort. Contacting your credit card provider should be the first.
Although BFL continue to anger 99% of their own customers, it's amazing how little they've learnt by their mistakes. Treat people (customers) right and they wont get sued. Arent refunds a part of consumer law in the US?

Looks like an attempt at a one man sting operation to me.  Not that there's anything wrong with that per se but it doesn't make for a very sympathetic plaintiff if it comes down to that.

I guess it's an expensive lesson learned. If you're going to send $22k to a vendor, better to do your due diligence first rather than after. I know I did a couple hours checking them out, and that was just for a $150 purchase.

Yes. But it was done after he paid the money. He is not an exception. It is a common mistake for the average BFL sponsor (customer).

Yes. But he appeared to have attempted to do some due diligence. Having done that, why would he place and order in July 2013 and complain a couple weeks later when he already knew that people who ordered the same unit a full year earlier had yet to receive theirs? Especially when he said the site was quite clear it might be two months or more til they get to his order. It's like me ordering today and complaining next week that I didn't get my order. Sorry. It just doesn't make sense. Nor does it make sense to call a detective rather than his credit card company when the vendor fails to refund his transaction.

Maybe he thought he's ordering an ASIC from BFL?

OK, so you saved your money and placed an order in Early July 2013, knowing full well at that time that they had just started shipping orders from mid 2012 (for reference, my early Sept 2012 order was delivered July 2, 2013 - just a jalapeño). And now you're upset that it might take a while, even though, at the time you ordered it, it said plainly that you were looking at at least 2 months until they shipped (or longer). And you're upset that another non-affiliated website shows you the time to break even without calculating for the increase in difficulty that will occur by the time you receive, which is also an unknown number? And then, you demanded a refund, which they declined. So you posted on their forums a solicitation to find other people to team together to have them investigated? So you went to the detectives about it?

A) Why in the world did you order on July 2, 2013 when you were already fully aware of the delays they were facing?

B) All they're selling you is hashing power. Whatever the network hash rate is, difficulty is, or value of bitcoin is at the time you receive it is nothing to do with the unit they're selling you.

C) So they declined to give you a refund. You're within a month of purchase, just call the credit card company and cancel that way. If you didn't use a credit card, paid by bankwire or worse, bitcoin, well, why did you do that knowing point A?

D) and of course they're not going to want their forums to be used to enlist people to try to get them in trouble.

I'm sorry. It's a lot of money. But I don't understand why you parted with it in the first place, quite honestly.

http://angelitominer.atwebpages.com/

Looks like the shit is splattering all over the room after it hit the fan.

we've discussed this at length. use USD roi calculation. if you get it today your USD break even point is roughly 2 weeks.

I'm really sorry for your experience. I've compiled a manual for people like you on this forum half year ago.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/purchasing-bitcoin-asics-the-manual-136615

What method of payment did you use to pay BFL $22,484 USD?

http://angelitominer.atwebpages.com/

BFL is the best company to learn a life lesson from. Understand it and most of all study it.

Learn something from this.

Nothing new under the sun.



Charles Ponzi in 1920





Read more!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ponzi#Collapse_of_the_scheme

BFL has rotten.

Not true.

Are you saying that every BTC related scam is not a scam in the true sense of the definition because BTC is not money in the true sense of the definition? Is stealing BTC not a theft in the true sense of the definition because BTC is not money in the true sense of the definition? May be you forget that the "business" of Carlo Pietro Giovanni Guglielmo Tebaldo Ponzi, (March 3, 1882 – January 18, 1949) was not a scam in the true sense of the definition (by that time)? However, since then the word "ponzi" became a synonym for finance related scam. In the same way the word "butterfly" will become a synonym for BTC related scam!

...

The definition:


BFL is a scam from day one of its existence. It is more than obvious now that it was planned to be a scam from the very beginning.

BFL Not a scam in the true sense of the definition, but a massive disappointment to anyone dealing with this company.

When I finally receive my 4x60GH/s, I dont think I will have a return on the investment. Not while 1 BTC = $100 USD and increasing difficulty.
Will anyone here still continue to mine even if the return is negative? (ie, hoping for prices to increase enough in future to make up for it?)

That was redundant, but unfortunately also is BFL's strategies.  It seems like now even Josh is starting to play himself as a victim.  Whether or no the has financial incentive to do so, he is a superstar.  Congratulations to him for at least superseding Hollywood, not that it is much of a compliment in terms of efficiency.