Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 60. (Read 415663 times)

Don't they file as BF Labs INC?
http://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main;jsessionid=83599219BA7C6526AE556B6921BBC9E3.aptcs03-inst0?execution=e1s13

Voicemail: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)
Fax: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)
Skype: butterflylabs

that MINE you can translated into all you paid is ....

Anyone actually found corporate records on this shit?  As far as I can tell, it doesn't even exist.  I haven't gone to much effort, though.

Address: 10770 El Monte, Leawood, KS 66211 United States of America

Voicemail: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)
Fax: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)
Skype: butterflylabs

If you google map them with the above address you can see their office(or what they claim is their office) I was able to get a good 'street view' from the interstate that goes right by them.

They have what looks like solar panels for window shades..

The phone,fax,and skype numbers are of little help.

Is there even a company?  Has anyone found anything resembling corporate records for BFL even being a corporation? 

Where is it incorporated?  Delaware?  Anywhere?  The lack of any kind of corporate entity would be quite disturbing.  It would indicate nobody involved with this whatever-it-is even has assets worth protecting, i.e. that the whole thing is judgment-proof.

Glad I don't have a dog in this hunt, because I'd be pretty scared if I did.

Nonsense and BS...

To wrap it up; 1 year ago when BTC/USD exchange rate was at 20 I loaned you 4 BTC at 25% interest rate. Now you can pay back this loan with only 1 BTC because exchange rate is at 100. Reason: we must be "looking at the whole picture"... Is that your understanding for a fair business, moron? Have you ever touched a real business during your entire life?

Next sock puppet, please! This one is smoking some BS and exposing BFL scam even further.

BFL lolz What a fucken joke of a company! Is there anything that has come out of bitcoins in general? That was good?

Josh and the gang WooHoo

Between the criminal at the helm and the patsy issuing promises like his ass can cash the cheque, everyone gets shafted...

Then again what did you expect a box that made money? plz!!!!! hahaha

Has anyone successfully gotten a refund during the month of July?

At the rate they are shipping it feels like they are intentionally slowing down shipping so they don't fill too many orders. I'm out, I emailed them last night for a refund, if they deny that I will be issuing a paypal dispute or if need be a chargeback.

doh!

Yet another lie. 

If you think that first scenario was a positive outcome, I certainly wouldn't want you as a business partner! In the second scenario, yes, I might be open to it. Its called looking at the whole picture. Bitcoin doesn't exist in its own static world, it constantly intersects with fiat because that's what we earn and spend day in and day out.

In relation to your constant gripe, you bought from BFL when btc was much cheaper. Think of yourself as having an investment portfolio. In that you had dollars and you had bitcoins and you wanted to add a butterfly labs device to it. Butterfly labs needed dollars from you, as their suppliers are paid in dollars, their rent and utilities are paid in dollars and their employees need dollars too. They provided the option to either pay in dollars or to pay in btc which they would then sell and convert to dollars for those above mentioned expenses. You looked at your "portfolio" and saw dollars and bitcoinsand made the choice to lower your bitcoin exposure in order to add a BFL gadget. You can't scream at them demanding they reimburse you the bitcoin value you sent - those were converted to dollars by your own choice when you chose to send them to BFL. If you thought they would run up to 100-200 at the time, shame on you for sending btc rather than dollars. Yes, it took them longer to ship than you expected (and they expected), that's on them, yes. But you chose to pay in bitcoin rather than dollars, making the decision implicitly that it was more prudent to hold bitcoin than dollars at the time.

And you know what? Who could blame you? By June 2012, btc had lost 80% of its value from its previous high. And if you receive your device and mine enough bitcoin to break even on a dollar denominated basis, you won. Not as much as if you'd held the bitcoin, but your return is still positive. Yes, it could have been higher by spending dollars and not bitcoin, but that was an allocation decision that YOU made.

Now, if josh reads this, I have a btc address in my sig. Please send my some, so I can graduate to the title of "official sock puppet". 

Sure I do! If I want to come ahead in USD I would loan USD. If I loan BTC I expect BTC back. Sounds strange? Are you honest with yourself?

Put another way: if I loan someone 2 BTC when BTC/USD rate is 200 and instead of paying back 3 BTC he can pay back his loan with only 1 BTC because rate is 600?! Is that what you'd justify?

makes sense to me.

Once again, BFL sock puppet here. Except they've never heard of me and I don't get paid.

Until such point as you can buy food gas groceries, pay rent or mortgage, and taxes with bitcoin, it could be INSANELY stupid to judge you returns by bitcoin and bitcoin alone. Even if you're buying things directly for bitcoin, it still would be, since almost anything sold except for block eruptors are sold with a fixed USD (or CAD or EUR) and a price in BTC that fluctuates.

In other words, even if you could live in bitcoin only land, your prices will be fluctuating based on exchange rates. Besides which all of your other inputs are denominated in fiat - electricity, computer, rent, etc. it's frankly insane you don't recognize this.

Put another way: if you loan someone 2btc when usd/BTC is 200 and they pay you back 3 BTC when usd/BTC is 100 did you come out ahead? Did you do better than someone who loaned out 2 BTC when usd/BTC was 100 and received back only 2.1 BTC when the usd/BTC exchange rate is 240? If you can say with a straight face that you'd prefer to be the first person, well, you're living in an alternate reality.

One day, when goods and services are sold for fixed BTC rates against fluctuating fiat rates, then yes, denominate your returns in bitcoin. That day isn't today. You're not being honest with yourself, and more importantly, you're not being honest with anyone else by pretending otherwise.

Yes, it has been discussed at length and BFL sock puppets keep disregarding the obviuos. Ordering bitcoin ASIC is not a USD investment, it's a BTC investment irrespective of how you paid it. Your ASIC can be used ONLY to mine BTC and nothing else. If the price of BTC drops to zero the price of your bitcoin ASIC will drop to zero as well.

Well thats pretty much what im saying, You might also be able to close the account and run for the border

Based on what I've seen about how Paypal works, I doubt they will block refunds unless BFL's balance and linked accounts completely dry up. Paypal will side with the buyer 90% of the time even if the seller is perfectly legit and has held up their end of the deal.

So with all the shenannigans over at BFL, Paypal will probably be glad to reverse anyone's order that paid with PP until their account goes negative.

If Paypal says they can't refund your order, THEN panic. That would be a good indicator that BFL implosion is imminent.

Beautiful work and advice goodsir!, I sure hope people do this before BFL tries to do something to block paypal disputes.

Requested a refund and got this in reply:


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy.html

Filed a dispute on Paypal and received a refund.

So if you paid via Paypal, file a dispute, even if after 45 days.
Also file a complaint with the FTC.

Why would I calculate ROI in USD when I paid in BTC? Well, I paid for half of it in BTC. I paid for the upgrade from two jalapenos to the LS with paypal. So that makes BTC ROI easier.


Yes USD ROI will be very fast (especially since my LS is now in production) but coins are what I paid and it will take several months to get those coins back. I only held onto my order since I was a first week preorder. Otherwise I would've gotten a refund months ago. Those still months out are in deep shit unless something significant changes in the assembly line.