Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 152. (Read 131381 times)

This show how amazing to hodl bitcoin.



Will give credit to Bitcoin Magazine for showing this graph

Also nice article to read regarding on this topic raised up https://crypto.ro/en/news/why-holding-bitcoin-has-been-profitable-for-nearly-100-of-its-existence/

So hodl and investors should stop wasting their time for trading shitcoins.

More to come especially soon USA will be a bitcoin friendly nation and there would be a lot of great developments to happen.

Could it be that we are getting our information from different sources because the information I have is that most early owners of bitcoin sold when they saw substantial profits. There are many articles suggesting that majority of the early investors have sold most of their bitcoins and I tend to agree with that because I have seen old thread of people here in the forum who had hundreds and thousands of bitcoin but have sold when they saw profit. If you check the discussion in this article, you will agree with what I am saying and don't forget that it was only few people that saw bitcoin beyond a few hundred of dollars.

Those who invested early and are still holding, deserve special respect because they have foresight and are the true believers of bitcoin. I believe more people are holding now because they have truly seen how good it is to hold. Just like you suggested, many people are already seeing bitcoin beyond their generation because it should be one of the best things to hand over to the next generation. Just imagine my dad handed me over a paper containing the seed phrase to a wallet containing 10BTC, he would have eradicated poverty from me, my children and my grandchildren because even if I want to establish business outside bitcoin with part of that, I need just 1BTC to do that which means I can save as much as 70% of the BTC to hand over to my children after building a good house and putting in place other necessary things in place and also establishing a business.

The thought of Bitcoin being too expensive is just mostly in the perspective of a newbie because an investor who have made investment for long will not think about the price of Bitcoin anymore but how to increase his portfolio.

 Bitcoin is a very broad subject that's for someone who wants to study and know more about Bitcoin so it will take a lot of time to study Bitcoin investment that is why making investments first before one can ask for more understanding about Bitcoin, however , just like i said of Bitcoin being a broad subject so you can't completely know everything about Bitcoin but as times goes on your investments, you will get to know more about bitcoin but the most important thing an investor should think of is how he can apply various strategies that will help him throughout his time of investment and how to be able to manage his income in such a way that he will balance his financial needs without affecting his investments in Bitcoin that is why financial management as a Bitcoin investor is important so that you don't get into a difficult situation at any point in your investment.

You are right there is a saying that goes thus "a little drop of water each day will definitely fill a bucket one day", accumulating Bitcoin gradually increases the quantity of your Bitcoin hodling for it is better to buy small than not buying at all because you feel the amount of money with you is too small to accumulate enough Bitcoin is not a good idea, that's why the DCA strategy is there to help investors to accumulate Bitcoin gradually because with your DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin one can buy Bitcoin gradually every week or month regardless of it price level with the amount an investor chooses to accumulate Bitcoin with and hodl for long or for the future with your discretionary income made available which will always help in accumulating more Bitcoin and HODL and not to sell.

You are right actually because each transaction generates it's own UTXOs which means that if an investor decides to be moving out small unit of Bitcoin from an exchange to a self custody wallet, it will certainly create too many UTXOs which in most cases are not spendable so just as part of the Bitcoin will be lost as transaction fees that's how some will also be lost as UTXOs so all these have to be put into consideration so that we don't get into making withdrawals from an exchange after using Fiat to buy Bitcoin, at least it will make more sense to accumulate a higher amount of Bitcoins before moving them to a non custody wallets so that even if some are lost to UTXOs and transactions fees, it would not be much as someone who keeps making withdrawals all the time.

People who panic are not investors but they are traders.

People who are slow and full of hope are not loyal or long term investors but they are traders.

These two characteristics can be ignored in each of you.

Just buy BTC and save it until you have children and grandchildren because Bitcoin investment is very good for the long term.

I prefer the old style of investors who accumulate bitcoins gradually but they don't sell them at every recorded ATH. why don't they sell because they know bitcoin is very limited. Whatever happens, buy bitcoin even if it's $10, do it gradually.

I agree with the point you've made, newbies can start their accumulation without wasting too much time. for some of the things that they do not know for instance like security measures that is involved and some of the mistakes that can made will be lessons learned and corrected once the right questions are asked, is more like saying they will be learning on the job first hand. The thing with newbies is that, the beginning stage looks so frightening, as most beginners find it hard to pull through that first stage of their investment journey, but hence they are consistent with their investment and are able to pull through the first stage with strong convictions, then you will see procrastination and other forms of distractions will die a natural death.

I agree with all of the points of your post Btcdeybodi; however, there is something wrong with your seeming to ONLY think about the withdrawal transaction fees, and anyone who moves quantities of bitcoin from third-parties, such as exchanges (or even makes other kinds of BTC transaction choices that result in the creation of both sending UTXOs and change UTXOs), should also be attempting to consider future transactions that come from how and where various UTXOs are held.  If a guy has a bunch of small UTXOs, some of them might either become unfeasible to spend, but the fees from having a bunch of small UTXOs could also end up taking a very large toll upon how much actual net worth (or value) that a guy has in bitcoin as compared to what he believes that he has... I had already mentioned an example of the difference between someone who has $3k to $5k held in just a few UTXOs as compared to another person who might have that same quantity of value held in 100s of UTXOs.


I agree that buying and holding and DCA is likely to be way less stressful than trading, but it surely is not stressfree, and there are also various kinds of ways that DCA can be done by itself in aggressive ways that potentially contribute to more stress, and also DCA can be accompanied by lump sum investing, buying the dip and HODL, and even though not trading, there still can be some levels of stress contained while using DCA that may well depend upon how aggressive and creative you are.. and yeah, it still might be considered to be some variation of DCA that does not involve trading but is surely not completely free from potential stresses and/or even making mistakes by overdoing it (by potentially going beyond your disposable/discretionary income or sometimes mismanaging cashflows including but not limited to emergency funds, reserves and/or float) and not realizing the mistakes until later down the road..but still may well fit within the category of DCA and not in the category of trading.


Again, you seem to be too narrowly focused on ONLY the withdrawal fee rather than considering UTXO management on a larger and longer timeline... but hey whatever, do your multiple $50 withdrawals and see how you might be feeling after 10 years of doing that and having 100s, if not 1,000s of UTXOs and you had not realized that you did not even know what a UTXO was, and you mistakenly believed that wallet and UTXO was the same thing.  By the way, learn about coin control too in order to help you to better learn about what is a UTXO and potentially how to manage them in the present and to anticipate future potential issues in regards to how small UTXOs can be problematic for onchain transactions (and yeah these problematic issues regarding small UTXO matters might get resolved, and yeah, they might  not).


I get your idea and I agree with the overall idea that there are those who get it (and are focusing on BTC accumulation and holding) and those who are lacking focus or failing/refusing to have any clue about the value of accumulating bitcoin (or the disvalue when they don't).

Yet, there are likely going to be variations of those two extremes in terms of potentially when a low coiner/no coiner finally gets bitcoin and what s/he finally does about it when s/he gets it... .. so yeah, the issue is ongoing in terms of when a person starts to accumulate.. which seems to be why a lot of us regular members might disagree regarding some of the BTC accumulation strategies, yet we still tend to agree that the sooner that low coiners / no coiners get started, the better off that they are likely going to be (or perhaps the more that they will be able to mitigate damages from their time as no coiner, low coiner and/or pre-coiner).


Frequently wealthy investors who are able to lump sum into a new investment, such as bitcoin, they still may figure out some form of DCA because of the practicality of not necessarily wanting to sell any of their other assets and not wanting to experience tax consequences or other burdens (including liquidity questions) that might come from selling other assets and/or currencies, so it may well be way more practical in terms of their financial management to DCA over 3 to 6 or even 12 months or more.  Maybe they have zero bitcoin exposure, but they already have something like a $1 million investment portfolio, and maybe their income (disposable income) might ONLY be around $1k to $2k per month (or maybe their overall income might be $6k to $10k per month).. and so if they are targeting something like a 5% to 25% ($50k to $250k) into bitcoin, based on their disposable income, they might have to take 1-8 years to get even close to reaching their BTC allocation targets, so even if they are DCAing, they also may be trying to figure out ways to reach their target levels faster, but still might end up having to engage in forms of DCA when they might have some funds coming available to them or if they figure out sways to reallocate.. and so they might be able to get in the lower end of their target accumulation range, but they still might be striving to reach the higher end of the target accumulation range which could take even longer to reach depending on how liquid some of their other assets might be or if they might be willing to sell them or purely rely on their incoming disposable income which they might be able to increase by increasing income or cutting expenses.


Again another member (Salahmu) seemingly overly focused ONLY on the withdrawal fees, and sure you end up reaching a decently good conclusion, but your focus merely on the withdrawal fee seems a bit short-sighted as to why UTXO management remains important in the present to prepare for into the future and calculations about the future.


Bitcoin does not have "gas fees"  Fuck shitcoins, ethereum and all of the others.

We are talking about bitcoin here... try to focus ur lil selfie... or maybe learn what is bitcoin so that you learn how to better stay on topic.

A newbie that wants to start investing in Bitcoin should start as soon as possible.There are things to learn along while investing in Bitcoin, learning about security measures shouldn't prevent a person to get started in Bitcoin accumulation.A newbie that has disposable income can get started as soon as possible, there's no time to waste, learning is a continuous process you can learn about Bitcoin security measures on Bitcoin forum like Bitcointalk where we have experienced bitcoiners to educate anyone about Bitcoin and it's security measures.Unfortunely trust wallet is not recommended as a safe wallet to hold Bitcoin for a long term.Once again start accumulating right away and there's no need for procrastinating because one wants to learn about the security measures of Bitcoin before investing.

You have said it as it is because the study about security is an ongoing one and even till date, new measures are still being added that strengthen the existing measures. For instance, every now and then we hear about the lunch of new wallet or improvement on existing ones, the bottom-line is security. I remember when Trust Wallet was seen as the best in the market only to be revealed after a while that there were issues with it such as you said before which is it being close source. Therefore, if a newbie decided to graduate from security classes before investing in Bitcoin, he may not even graduate and may never get started with investing in Bitcoin.

To me an investor just need to put in mind that "not your keys, not your coin" and he is good to start because knowing this means he knows the importance of being in charge of the secret phrases and private keys of the storage media, hence will avoid keeping his coins in CEX and other wallets and places where those information are controlled by another entity other than the investor.

Samlucky O, you are contradicting yourself with your statement above because you said it is important to study about security measures before investing and immediately you are saying the opposite. Learning about security measures is far too complex for a new investor and he might get scared of getting started. A new investor only need to figure out how much of his discretionary income he will use to buy bitcoin consistently and persistently without stopping for a long period of time and open an exchange account.

Trust wallet is not good to store your bitcoin because it is closed source which means you are entrusting your bitcoin to a third-party. Electrum cold storage wallet and hardware wallets are good ones because they are airgapped wallet and only use open source hardware wallet.

It is not called passphrase, it is called seed phrase. Seed phrase is the 12 words or 24 words that is given to you when you create your wallet to show that you are the owner of the wallet, and that is why you are advised to keep your seed phrase secret from the reach of anyone. Backing it up in three different locations far from each other is also important.

Passphrase is the additional words that is being added to a seed phrase by the owner of the wallet to strengthen the security of the wallet, and you don't write down both the seed phrase and passphrase together or keep them in the same place. So that whoever sees your seed phrase will not be able to have access to your wallet until he sees your passphrase making it difficult for anyone to steal your coins.

 You see very complicated for a new investor to learn be getting started. This is why they need to get started immediately with their bitcoin accumulation and learn these other things as they are investing with time.

There is no way you can do without withdrawal fee from centralized exchanges. The choice of how many times to withdraw from exchanges is up to the investor and not mine or yours. What I suggested above is just a precautionary measure in a situation where people will use high withdrawal fee as excuses why they left their assets in a custodian wallet. My suggestion is never in any way suggesting to investors to invest aggressively or go out of their original budget of investing in bitcoin either weekly or monthly. It was just a mare insight that investors should prepare ahead and know that they are definitely going to pay for withdrawal fees either from what they have accumulated till the point of withdrawal or they can make extra provisions that will cover for the withdrawal fees, if they don't want the withdrawal fees to be charged from the bitcoin they have accumulated. When investors uses withdrawal fees as excuse for keeping their bitcoin in exchanges it gets me worried, because ordinarily they should have known that withdrawal fees are part of buying and hodling of bitcoin.

It is called transaction fee and not gas fee. Etherum is gas fee.

It depends on the amount of bitcoin that you are buying, if you are using lump sum from $500 and above, you can transfer it to your exchange immediately and that is when the transaction fee is normal and not super high. But if you are using little amount just keep stacking it in an exchange till it get up to $500 before transferring to your private wallet.

You are getting it wrong mate, we are talking about how to prevent you spending too much on transaction fee in future due to too many small input made during your accumulation phase  by keeping your coins for a short period of time for it get to a certain amount before transferring it to your exchange and not using an exchange as your wallet for long term because it is not safe to do that. This is because exchanges are in charge of your keys and when your funds are in exchange, it is not yet yours until you have withdrawn it.

If you read my post carefully you will understand that I said the $5 addition is just something you are adding up to make up for your withdrawal fee and I also made mention that you shouldn't withdrawal weekly unless you are buying up to $200 and above. If you buy $50 weekly you have to leave it till it gets to like $200 which is up to 4 weeks making it a month. So if you are adding the $5 for that 4 weeks you are likely going to have $220 so when you are withdrawing the withdrawal fees will be charged from the extra money you added to your initial weekly allowance for DCA, the fee might not get to the $20 depending on the exchange and their charges, there is every possibility that the extra $20 won't be exhausted on the withdrawal fees so the rest will still go to your holding. The essence of this is to make sure that your weekly DCA target is not shorten because of exchange fees. The choice of how many times to withdraw to a non custodian wallet solely lies with the investor, if he chooses to do it weekly if he can afford the fees that's fine, but if he can't he can do it monthly as you have stated above. But the most important thing is to get our assets off custodian wallets. We can't take because of withdrawal fees and lose our bitcoin.

If you don’t learn about wallet security before investing, then don’t be surprised that you will end up losing your bitcoin. Wallet security is one of the things we are not supposed to joke with when investing, because it’s really going to be bad losing bitcoin after holding for a while, so we shouldn’t joke with that.
 
Also, if you are learning about wallet security from anyone, make sure you don’t use the wallet that was used to guide you in storing your bitcoin. Don’t trust anyone, the person might have secretly stolen your seed phrase and will be waiting patiently for you to store bitcoin before stealing from you. So the best thing to do is, after learning, create a separate wallet for storing your bitcoin and properly store your seed phrase.
 
When storing seed phrase, it should be completely stored in a place where there is no internet connection, it should be completely stored offline. If you leave your seed phrase in a place where there is an internet connection, you are at risk of losing your bitcoin at any moment.

Well, there are some people who don't care about the fee in their withdrawal as long they are going to achieve something in their weekly withdrawal, but the profit will not be big compare to people that withdraw monthly to reduce the gas fee to accumulate profit.  I don't know why some people are very comfortable with weekly or monthly withdrawal in the industry because it will not help to achieve your target on time base on the high fee involved but if you can continue accumulating your portfolio for a long period of years, it will help you to earn plenty profit and reduce your gas fee.

But making it a long period of years before withdrawal, it will make it more better for you not to be charging big money on gas fee because you know you are about to withdraw plenty, so that it will bring big money no matter the gas fee that will occur in the cause of the transaction.

I don't think that it is a wise decision because you will end up spending carelessly on transaction fee that is not your priority because you feel that you have enough to waste. I will say that is a poor financial management system on accumulating bitcoin. Your priority should be buying and building your bitcoin investment in the best way that it will not affect your profit from your bitcoin investment in future.

You should also know that it is not everybody that can afford 5usd for only fee and some new investors might only have $10 or $20 as their discretionary income will you say that this new investor should not start his bitcoin journey because he cannot afford 10% for every bitcoin he purchases weekly because he should not keep his coins in an exchange temporarily. I don't think you are right, let's not see keeping our newly purchased bitcoin in an exchange for it to reach a good amount before transferring it from an exchange as a big problem if not it will become an unnecessary problem that might prevent new investors to get started immediately or it can also slower the rate  at which will reach our bitcoin target.

Have you also considered future transaction fee when you want to transfer your bitcoin when the right time comes in future. Those your many small inputs will make all your sacrifice and consistent DCAing to achieve that amount of bitcoin you accumulated overtime a waste of time and resources because your transaction fee will be fucking high and can consume majority of your profit due to improper withdrawal plan in future. It is not just by buying and accumulating but also you consider the challenges in future of your investment so that you don't end up in regrets for investing in bitcoin.

Do you mean that if bitcoin blockchain is congested due to those garbage inject in the blockchain, you will still be able to be buying bitcoin weekly and transferring to your private wallet constantly, I doubt. Which makes your idea not cool for me to digest.

I think your suggestion would be good for those on a low budget, say $50 per week. They can withdraw their bitcoins to their wallet within a month or after they accumulate more bitcoins to save on withdrawal fees instead of withdrawing every week. Of course they can choose a trusted and reputable centralized market to avoid many unwanted risks, but they can also choose which step they want most.

There is no pressure to withdraw every purchase or withdraw after a few purchases, it really depends on how they do it. The bottom line is, bitcoin should not be held on an exchange for the long term because of the risks.

I don't think it is a smart move to use 10% of your capital as withdrawal fee, that is too high for me. Instead of doing that, you could buy weekly but withdraw monthly, this way you will be cutting down the fee to 2.5% of your capital. If you continue to spend $5 as withdrawal fee for a $50 weekly DCA, that will amount to $260 annually as fee which is too high for such a low capital. So like I said before, instead of this, a weekly DCA and monthly withdrawal will be better.

What I'm suggesting to you is also what I'm doing because we have to maximize the opportunities while cutting down the cost of doing that.

For me I would say it is important to study about security measures before investing in Bitcoin, but it doesn't mean that one should apply for online or offline course to only study much about security measures and how to buy and sell bitcoin before starting to invest. As far as I know we all here learnt it in one way or the other, most people learnt it online and practice it, while some learnt it here in this forum through regular conversation and creating of thread. Any newbie that want to lean will learn, I don't see much deal or grammar in leaning how to invest in bitcoin it's simply, buy from a centralized exchange like binance, kucoin, bybit, bitget or any other centralised exchange supported by your country, and send to decentralized or self custodial wallet like metamask, electrun wallet or truswallet, for the specific period of time of accumulation of maybe 4-10 year or above and make sure you keep your 12 or 24 key pass phrase safe from people or avoid saving it in your mobile device to avoid hack, that's just all.