Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 151. (Read 131378 times)

you can't completely talk about investment without mentioning Risk. Risk is part of an investment variable but it's just that some investment choices and approaches are less risky as opposed to others. Although we're all positive about the future of Bitcoin which is the reason why we are investing for the long term, we're not blind to the fact that anything can happen in the future. For as much as I know, Bitcoin isn't too strong to the point we can assume that it's immuned to uncertainty but that's just same with everything that's in this world. When you talk about risk in the context of Bitcoin Investments it's not a source of deterent to your Bitcoin accumilation but just a variable to be considered while deciding the amount you're to use for your DCA such that it only occupy a smaller percentage of your total earning.

while it's advisable to invest an amount you can afford to loose, I doubt that the primary intention of an average investor is to loose the amount he invest in Bitcoin. Profit and loss are part of every investment decision journey and while you don't you're hoping for the best you're also expecting a worse case scenario but what could even be the worse case scenario for Bitcoin? Is it that if you started buying at this price it will just go down to zero? That at the moment is almost at the stage of impossibility.  It's mostly short term holders that gives themselves a fix time before taking out there investment that will be worried of looses, long term holders that are ready to keep HODling even when there is correction in the market untill it bounces back won't witness any form of loss.

lol! Doesn't the statement that you're ready to lose shows that you're still talking about the risk associated with Bitcoin investments? If you're investing for the long term the chances of experiencing a loss in your investment is too minimal so You've got no reason to panic or talk about losing shit.

Your psychology about Bitcoin investment seem a bit low actually because I wonder why you would feel that investing in Bitcoin for the future of our children is wrong, actually with your statement shows that you don't really understand Bitcoin too well because if you believe on the potential of Bitcoin you will see from other people's perspective, however contrary to your believe on Bitcoin so many people who are investing and holding may not actually be for there own consumption but they are actually investing on Bitcoin for the future of there children so that when the time comes they would have something to build up with, so if I may ask are you saying that those that invested on Bitcoin for the future of there children made a wrong decision?.

Investing in Bitcoin is not risk free especially to investors who do not  invest appropriately with the right approach and strategy,  and also not sticking to their investment plans (long-term). What makes Bitcoin to be risky is because its volatile in nature meaning the price fluctuates, some investors might struggle to keep up to a long term strategy when faced with FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) or sudden changes in the market  this can trigger emotional response causing some investors to take quick decision of selling at loss without reaching a profitable target. It's only investors who develop a disciplined approach and habit to their investment  can go through the risk and make good rewards and profits.

Investors should discipline their emotions not to take impulsive and unnecessary decisions that will result in loss due to the volatile nature of bitcoin. Having a long term perspective (HODLing bitcoin),helps in going through fluctuations, by focusing on your long-term strategy and not being emotional to market situation. With this kind of mindset investors can benefit from investing in bitcoin.

No matter how you see this, there are still some people who don't have this confidence in the price of Bitcoin and that's because not everyone is your long term holders some Bitcoin investor are just after their little profits of which is very risky. Panicking when the price drops is a actually a sign of not knowing the true value and worth of Bitcoin. The same panic that is done with the amateur holders the experts and determine investor see as a window of opportunities to actually buy when the price is up.

As for long-term Bitcoin holders, I don't expect them to be panicking about the price of Bitcoin after they have understood the basics of Bitcoin. I don't really see why someone should panic about their Bitcoin investment when the history of Bitcoin has already shown that Bitcoin holders have great opportunities to make more profit from Bitcoin. So, for anybody who wants to enjoy their Bitcoin investment and make reasonable profits, they should have a mindset of holding Bitcoin for the long term. The easiest way to accumulate Bitcoin without much worry about the price is by using the DCA (Dollar Cost Averaging) method, which involves buying on a regular basis.

And many people mention the word risk here, aren't we ready to lose?  So why else use the word risk?

Every investor has a willingness to hold for a long time and they are people who are ready to lose.

Therefore, my advice is to use money to invest in bitcoin that you don't need for your living needs.

So that way you can target a time period for investing in Bitcoin such as 10 years or 30 years.

So just buy and don't think anything strange about the future, you have to think about every decision before you decide. So I don't like any risk because I am ready to lose in long-term investment planning.

I also think one of the risk is your seed phrase it has to be kept save and secured before and after your investment so that your investment can not be tampered without your consent  and don't also forget where you store them else you will or may lose everything. I don't know why people panic or bother themselves when Bitcoin dip I mean that's one of its behavior and it will definitely take an uptrend with time.

In as much as Bitcoin is very nice investment that doesn't mean you should force or ask someone to do it, I mean partaking in Bitcoin should be a choice not something we should bid one to do perhaps the best thing is letting them know about Bitcoin (awareness) and allow them to decide if they want to do it or not after all it's not everyone that is surviving with Bitcoin but on the other hand I don't think there's someone you will tell about Bitcoin that won't be interested to join unless the person doesn't know what Bitcoin is.

I can see that you are seeming to describe some situations in which some early bitcoiner might have had a lot of coins and then presuming that the fact that they do not have as many coins to be a bad thing, when there are a lot of ways that the shaving off of coins over the years could play out. We can even backtest someone who had a lot of coins, and even if he might have had been fairly aggressively withdrawing coins over the years, such at a rate of 10% per year, he would still be really well off, and perhaps even better off for withdrawing coins along the way.

So for example a guy who might have had started out with accumulating in the ballpark of 1,000 coins towards the beginning of 2012, he might have had paid around $5k or $6k for those 1,000 coins (whether he lump summed in or maybe he bought over several purchases), and maybe he decides that starting in mid-2013, he would withdraw right around 10% of his coins per year - on a monthly basis (twice per month - which would be right around 0.4167% for each withdrawal 24x per year).  In this kind of a scenario, over the last 11 years, he would have had withdrawn right around $7.2 million dollars (669.3 BTC), and he would still have right around 330.7 BTC remaining in his BTC stash size (presuming that he did not buy more BTC over the years, which currently 330.7 BTC is a bit over $22 million in value based on current prices.  You can back test these kinds of numbers here (or input your own numbers): https://bitcoindata.science/withdrawal-strategy?U2FsdGVkX1+iCmHSNWrLm2DpDph5lrzDu/TJtxZp7EJqBvgf/ap85eFc8YfZVrXtSyQxDfMd/+Sh+j9DpOirVw==

In other words, I don't see any problem that the guy in this particular example ended up depleting right around 2/3 of his BTC stash over the past 11 years and extracting a bit over $7 million in value, and so yes now he only has around 1/3 of the quantity of coins that he had when he started in early 2012-ish, and surely it is likely he will never have that many coins again (the starting quantity of 1,000 BTC)....

I would suggest that it would not even be unreasonable for a guy in 2013 to start to conclude that he might have had accumulated enough BTC if had 1,000 BTC and they went from $6k-ish in value and to right around $100k in the middle of 2013 (valued at over $1million in late 2013 and even valued at more than $200k after the down correction of 2014 and 2015), yet at the same time, maybe such hypothetical guy would not want to start to cash out of his BTC so soon, so it could be possible that such guy with 1,000 coins would have had waited one or two years longer or maybe even longer before starting to employ some kind of a cashing out strategy.. .and maybe he would consider valuing his stash based on the 200-WMA rather than based on BTC spot price, even though we frequently gravitate towards the BTC spot price when looking at the value of our BTC stash, which could end up leading us to cashing out too many BTC too soon.. but then maybe buying back too.. which could devolve into trading and gambling, too - depending on the techniques that we might adopt.

Maybe part of my point is that frequently there might be too much emphasis in regards to BTC stashes going way down (being depleted) in quantity over the years, yet if the overall wealth is measured, it remains way more realistic for longer term BTC holders to be cashing out parts of their BTC stashes along the way rather than just sitting on their BTC stashes, especially once they started to reach levels of BTC accumulation (or even appreciation in BTC value) that it makes sense to engage in some reasonable forms of BTC withdrawal practices - whether they choose sustainable methods of withdrawal or not.  ..

Yeah, surely if some BTC holders are practical about their withdrawal practices, it might be a bit dumb and whiny for them to be having regrets about what they could have bought with their bitcoin if they had held it and waited to cash it our later.. blah blah blah..

To me, it seems way better to figure out some kinds of reasonable and sustainable withdrawal practices, and not to whine about the matter - unless  there are surely a lot of folks who end up engaging in BTC selling practices in which they sell way too many coins too soon, but there is no reason to engage in such practices of withdrawing too many BTC too soon in order to still enjoy the fruits of BTC price appreciation by working towards the employment of reasonable and meaningful withdrawal practices that might be based on time and/or prices.

In other words, with bitcoin there have been ways to both have your cake and eat it too, especially if whatever withdrawal system does not devolve into all or nothing kinds of plays that result in having regrets about selling too much too soon and mostly stays weighted towards holding most of the BTC rather than getting overly excited about cashing out large portions of the BTC stash into dollars.. and largely just shaving off along the way and even while potentially the amounts of the shavings had been capable of increasing quite a bit through the years, including 10% per year levels and perhaps even larger kinds of levels depending on how the withdrawals are structured or maybe just making sure that the BTC holder has enough value in the BTC holdings before starting the withdrawal practices... and those withdrawal practices could be structured with a combination of time-based and price-based practices.


Yep.

A variety of strategies in terms of both accumulating bitcoin and then once we might reach some BTC accumulation goals, we might well not be relieved of how to consider and to employ some kind of maintenance strategy that makes sense, that would not contribute to our selling too many BTC too soon.  We don't need to be greedy in order to think about and put into some practice a kind of maintenance and or withdrawal strategy that is reasonable.

Age does not matter when one wants to pass his bitcoin investment to his heir, what matters is the size of bitcoin portfolio that he has. Some early investors started their bitcoin journey early but they invested in a whimpish way that they didn't take it serious and this made them to have a small investment portfolio for a very long time. While some investors did not start early but they were luck to invest aggressively and was able to acquire more bitcoin than some early investors.

If at old age, you have enough Bitcoin that can serve as your pension funds and there will still be enough left over from your calculations, you can pass them on to your heir before death or if you have already planned to accumulate bitcoin for your kids during your accumulation phase, you can hand it over to them at the right time.

If you are old and don't have enough Bitcoin to serve you as pension funds at old age till death, then there will be no bitcoin to pass down to your heir. It is not at what age that you could invest in bitcoin but it is about how aggressive you were during your accumulation phase that will determine the size of your bitcoin at old age because the size of your bitcoin will determine the profit overtime.

Wow, well this is surprising. I understand that Bitcoin future isn't certain but the level to which you are saying it is the one which I would disagree with you, I believe Bitcoin is still at its early stages and we haven't seen anything close to the full potential yet and I can definitely tell you that its actually a good and Wonderful idea to have stacked up some Bitcoin for your children in the future and even your spouse and family if possible because Bitcoin is definitely going to stay a lot longer than you are already perceiving it won't. Just do the basics with investing in Bitcoin which is consistency, patience, positive mindset and also buying the dip whenever you are privilege or just be straight with the DCA strategy and believe me you would be surprised what the future might have installed for you and your holdings.

In as much as you are trying to prove a point here, but I think statements like this are considered to be made by "critics", as described by Andreas ( the author of "The Internet of Money"). Okay let's do a quick questioning here.

• Can you picture the internet fading out in the future?
• Can you picture automobile like (cars, planes, train, etc) fading out in the future?
• Can you picture Houses fading out in the future?.
• Can you picture Technology fading out in the future?
• Can you picture human Clothing fading out in the future?

I can go on, and on, listing all these things. Personally, I can't picture any of these things fading out, as they've come to stay, so why is Bitcoin now an exception?.

You need to understand that there are some innovations that are here to stay. Upgrades and re-modification can be done, but talking about fading is just like those people who Andreas described as critics. I read his book(though not done with it) as a newbie when I joined this forum few weeks back, where he talked about those who never believed that the invention of cars was not going to last long. He talked about so many things, which I will suggest that you also read about when less busy. I think he also talked about how he saw the future impact of the internet, but people didn't believe him.

I can't really say much, but I hope you understand what I am trying to pass across. Bitcoin is here to stay, just as the internet has been able to survive even though it was criticized and there were doubts of it lasting long.

When discussing whether or not it is permissible to give bitcoin investment savings to children or grandchildren, we must first look at who the investor is, at what age he started accumulating his bitcoins, from the age of 30 years or 40 years or maybe more, and if you look at these factors there is no harm also if there is someone or maybe a parent who invests in bitcoin and gives some or maybe all of the investment to their child, because when it comes to long-term investment in bitcoin by continuing to accumulate, it takes a journey of 5 or 10 or maybe 15 years, depending on the income that can be made. in the investment that the investor has, all forms of investment have risks. We cannot deny this and it is natural that we must be prepared for these risks and it is true that no one knows the future conditions of the market or Bitcoin, but we must be optimistic about the investments we carry out. , and as long as bitcoin has a limit of 21 million and technology still exists in this world, during that time I still believe in bitcoin

Nobody is sure of the future but this your line of thought makes me see you like a bitcoin critic and your statement seems a little like fud. It also make me feel you have not really come to terms with the fact that bitcoin have come to stay. If you must do well as a bitcoin investor, you must grow above the doubt of bitcoin failing like those critics do. This way, you will be confident that you are investing in a solid ground that will yield good profits.

There is nothing that does not fail. Stocks fail, you can buy property and tomorrow natural disaster can wash it away or government policy can mess your investment up. Sincerely, bitcoin have proven to be one of the safest investment instrument of all time. Neither inflation, nor government policy can spoil your investment, so where is the risk? The only risk I see in bitcoin is when you are in a hurry to sell, this way you can sell during retracement and incur losses.

Finally, I disagree with you that bitcoin is not good be given to our children. Bitcoin should be one of the best gifts you can give your children as it gives you the opportunity to grow the wealth gradually without stress. The asset is liquid that your children can immediately access it unlike other asset classes that they have to fill many papers. If you are not thinking towards saving for your children, I will advice you to start now and see how happy you will become doing that.

Why should an investor panic over price drop or fluctuation when he is not even planning to sell? If you are invested in Bitcoin and you panic during the last dip, then you are not doing it correctly because instead of that panic, you ought to have taken advantage of those discounted prices to collect more Bitcoin for the same dollar amount you have been using to buy. I agree with Ginsan that it is traders that panic over retracement of price and investors sometimes are not bothered with that because they know it is normal and Bitcoin will always recover.

It will surprise you to know that I never checked my wallet to see the dollar value of my Bitcoin during the dips, instead I continued with my purchase and sending to my wallet and as soon as it is released and I receive a confirmation email, I don't bother what it come out again in terms of dollar value in my wallet.

Another source of panic is if you invested what you are not supposed to invest in Bitcoin, like going above what you ought to budget for Bitcoin investment. We must appreciate the fact that we have needs, so those needs have to be met especially the basic ones, before we talk about investment. This is the reason it is important to do proper planning which involves keeping both money for basic needs and emergency funds before investing from the balance. If you invest money you are supposed to use for feeding into Bitcoin, you will not have peace of mind if price diminishes, this is not the best thing to do.

Do you know that bitcoin investment is risk, what I will tell you is that don't bag your eggs with one bag, you can invest in bitcoin for long-term but is not something that you will invest for your future children because its clear that nobody knows if the technology of bitcoin blockchain will fade off one day, their is a place I read in this forum, it stated that you should make bitcoin your side hustle, so as your investing in cryptocurrency you have to be mindful and don't put all you hope on it, now bitcoin is increasing and everyone is ready and interested to buy more bitcoin, but never know that bitcoin price can crash from this high price to low price, and it has happened in this form so many times, and it's possible another currency that is higher that bitcoin can be introduced.

Well said.  But I disagree with you that those who panic are traders, even Investors panic... Anyone can panic about there investments it's natural in Human. Full of hope I don't seem to understand what you mean, I believe ignoring bad traits is a wrong approach instead you work, build and develop oneself to be stoic because one can never ignore what is natural instead it will keep giving them pangs occasionally.

Accumulation of Bitcoin should be a continual process, investors need to keep DCAing instead of just saving it rather keep building it in other to have a solid Bitcoin portfolio.

Well, you are getting it wrong about DCA method, if you are indeed investing on Bitcoin for long term with the help of DCA method you don't need to withdraw a dime from your investment because withdrawing from your Bitcoin investment will take you backwards.
As DCA is concerned you don't have to withdraw from it, no matter how the condition is (except it has to do with health). Because of not withdrawing from your Bitcoin investment you must have a solid emergency funds so that you can be able to take from your emergency funds and sort yourself out during emergencies.
Talking about the fees, I think you wanted to say transactions fee, there is nothing like gas fees in Bitcoin transactions, unless you are referring to shitcoins/altcoins which we aren't talking about here.

One don't need to panic if he's using DCA method to invest on Bitcoin for long term, and I agreed that those who don't panic and sell their Bitcoin if it hits ATH  is because they are investing on long term and they believed that Bitcoin has a lot of potentials, and they also knows that within some months the figures of Bitcoin they have presently will increase again. And if eventually it dips they sees it as an opportunity to buy more and hold for a longer time. So they also understand all this before they refused to sell their Bitcoin for any reasons.

Ignore that trading makes you nervous, investing in bitcoin is much less stressful because we have a sense of comfort with continued accumulation, so the main focus is how the DCA continues without any obstacles, now that bitcoin has recovered a little to its original price, I will not hesitate to continue buying it by means of DCA.

HODL bitcoin for the long term, can be for your old age as a pension fund, can pay for school children, make your life better with bitcoiin.
No problem with doing it $10, I also started small now it lasts a large enough amount to do DCA depending on the monthly spending situation.
The important thing is that we must be able to manage cash flow so that we can do it on an increasing basis.

this has always been the wrong assumption most people held on to that earlier Bitcoin holders did anything different from what curent Bitcoin enthusiast and skeptics are currently doing. Earlier investors hard to banter between the possibility of Bitcoin being another ponzi scheme and that led some to sell off thier holding at any slightest profit they witnessed. If you asked those that probably bought Bitcoin at $10 if they even thought Bitcoin would eventually get to $1000, most wouldn't imagine that it will be an easy feet and when it eventually happened, some still sold it at that price and others couldn't even HODL till that time, selling at such range of price would most likely appear as the best option for them and we can't even blame them because most people are still making the same haste to seel too soon even now that we can actually learn from the mistakes of earlier Bitcoin HODLers. The fact that Bitcoin price was quite low for earlier Bitcoin holders enabled them to buy in large quantities and I doubt they even did DCA at the time. It's because with the current Bitcoin price, it's deficult to buy in the kind of quantity earlier Bitcoin holders where previledged to buy that we had to make use of the DCA methord and buy in smaller quantity for years before some people would even buy up to 1BTC

I don't like to even make any sort of comparison between the peculiarity of our Bitcoin accumulation journey with earlier HODLers, they hard thier time and while some made the best of the opportunity, others gambled thier holding away and it's just a lesson for us to learn now and use whatever strategy that suite us to accumulate Bitcoin.

early folks who accumulated bitcoin gradually and never considered selling their bitcoin holdings despite it keeps recording  new ATH.  It's because they understood and saw the growth potentials bitcoin carries, global Adoption  and demands in the market was constantly on increase  which keeps appreciating in price and making  it a store value.  Knowing  this,  if they keep holding onto their Bitcoin, more ATH will be recorded in the future it's important to utilize and maximize bitcoin potentials to it fullest to be profitable and successful.

Some investors (newbie) now after an ATH is recorded they consider selling their bitcoin holdings, Knowing fully well that there is still a lot of potential growth in bitcoin, which will increase their investment profits higher. Because
the more adoption and demand rate, more ATH will be recorded, Investors need to learn from early adoptors of bitcoin, and the need to be patient and utilize bitcoin to its maximum. There's still a very high percentage (%) of the world population, who has no investment in bitcoin, meaning bitcoin is still in ithe early stage with so much room for expansion. The successful reward from holding bitcoin for a long term makes it a very unique investment and  make s bitcoin an asset of its own kind.



HODLing Bitcoin  stands out to be very  profitable without the fear of losing your funds, you just have to accumulate steadily and purchase Bitcoin consistently  to make profits. Bitcoin is still growing and look at the value it commands, an asset that is not up to 20 years  old but possess a significant value. The potential  of Bitcoin in the future is still broad and exciting  as demand and adoption continue to grow globally investors will benefit more from the opportunities bitcoin will offer. Investors should save their self from trading stress, and Buy & HODL bitcoin for long-term  which is stressless but not actually stress free.