Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 155. (Read 142533 times)

Perhaps you might think that there are no risk in bitcoin because of how well it has performed over the years but you can't underestimate the fact that carefulness is very important as much as the investment itself. Of course @synchronym might not express what he meant by being careful but we can still relate bitcoin risk to other areas apart from the obvious part that it's a paradigm and not a Ponzi scheme as lots of people saw it from the past. Risk that are involved in bitcoin could be few and not as much as shitcoins can be risky hence I can would relate you to the irreversible nature of bitcoin, wallet compromise etcetera.

Apparently you might not want to consider this as risk that one should be careful with for some reason of being acquainted if the basic bitcoin knowledge but for someone who is probably a newbie or a novice investor it's paramount to be careful and examine every step which one would probably take in the cost of bitcoin purchase and/or investment.

How do we measure the knowledge to know at which point the knowledge is deemed enough before investing in bitcoin? At the end of the day you will find out that you are really neglecting what's important (investing) and doing something which ordinarily you can do later while you have already invested. What exactly are you doing with enough knowledge while all you need is just a basic knowledge of how to buy bitcoin. Sometimes even people with zero knowledge about bitcoin do invest and successfully hold on to it. Sometimes I think those who stress about having enough knowledge before investing in bitcoin are actually people who have the mindset of trading, because these are people that are more concerned about knowing everything about bitcoin.


Those who have the mindset of holding for long term don't actually stress in knowing everything about bitcoin before investing. The most important thing for them is just buying the bitcoin. What is the purpose of having knowledge about bitcoin without having any Bitcoin in your possession? but it will be more profitable to people who hold bitcoin even without having enough or any knowledge about bitcoin.
At the end of the day it is the amount of bitcoin in your possession that matters and not the level of knowledge you have about bitcoin that will count. In nutshell, invest the  moment you have the opportunity and go for whatever knowledge you want to acquire down the line.

There has been a ton of true statements that you made in that post. I am not going to address them one by one as I am a little bit short on time, but one thing that people can't get into their heads is that it is still early days for BTC. More reasons will come why a decentralized currency (or reserve tool or whatever someone wants to use it for) will find its way into society in wide spread fashion. The only thing that gets me concerned at times is the pace of development. Frankly, I am not even up to date how that is going and what the pace is at which advancements happen.

I have said a while ago that technologies like the lightning network should in a best case scenario work more like a plug and play, like an app, someone presses connect and there you go. Similar to a VPN or even the TOR browser where someone can connect their wallet and then benefit from LN as the rest will be done automatically in the backend.

But apart from these issues, the number of people owning BTC is still small. It's actually tiny. People are too obsessed with the price instead of the network potential. Of course when someone sees that it was once pennies and now it's in the tens of thousands, it looks like they are late to the party. But price is probably one of the worst metrics to base their decision on.


That sounds reasonable to me, but I still think that BTC can barely be stopped from expanding unless there is some fatal flaw or threat that hits the network out of nowhere. I find the fact that governments are now paying close attention to BTC very interesting. Because now they all know that being late to the party could have geo strategical consequences in the long term. Some of them probably build at least a little reserve and hence remove more circulating supply.

The whole "waiting for the dip thing" is flawed. The only approach I would somewhat accept is if someone has a set in stone threshold and if that is hit, a lump sum is going to be used to build a substantial stash (relatively, depending on the individual). I think those who talk about waiting for the dip are also those who panic when their chosen threshold is reached, they buy and then BTC crashes further and they sell again because they panic. We have said this dozens of times, nobody knows where exactly a correction or crash makes the U-turn. If Wind_FURY believes that this is the way to go for him, then fine, but propagating that it is a golden formula is utter nonsense. Maybe he should start a dedicated thread and post his decisions in real time, so we can see whether he is making the right calls all the time or not. My modest guess is that he is 50% right and 50% wrong, so why not just flip a coin once a week, buy when tail shows up and don't buy when heads show up

Yeah actually there is no investment without Risk and bitcoin is not excluded too, but I don't think bitcoin is as risky as other forms of investment. With the little knowledge I have about bitcoin from the past years, the only thing I know is risky is just rise and fall which is normally volatility. and that is the more reason you should invest in bitcoin than talking about risk. The risk you presume about bitcoin, most people have been Able to accumulate alot of starshes expecially during price correction or bitcoin dip. What you complain to be risky is what others are taking advantage from it. I guess you should think of accumulating than talking about risk.

I want to make it clear to you that investing in bitcoin is not a risk to me, because in a lung run success will be achieved. What I count to be risky is investing in shitcoins or when you think of a risky investment think of shit/altcoin or some sort of gambling coins. apart from that anything bitcoin investment to me is an asset for future profit.

In the early stages of investing in Bitcoin, a investor should have the knowledge to accumulate beyond the traditional knowledge. Traditional investment concepts often promote trading concepts that encourage long-term holding and accumulation when investing in Bitcoin. If you want to continue depositing Bitcoin with the DCA strategy you should make a long-term decision because you need to remember that it is a valuable asset and its growth can make you much richer over time.

A new investor should not tend to profit from bitcoin as he has to keep depositing first no matter what the amount may be. If he has a system of disposable income and can turn at least 2 cycles from it. Or he may be recommended to hold for longer and run more accumulations during price dips. Miscalculating when you invest means you put on a veil of short term planning that differs from long term investing or accumulate.

Yes it is very important to have cash flow to reduce the tendency to get greedy when investing which can see an investor through the long term plan. I think there must be a balance between having cash flow and doing DCA on a long term basis. In conclusion I should say that in a long bitcoin cycle an investor should have at least 6 months to 2 years of cash flow so that he can keep buying and holding more than every bearish.

I would say that Bitcoin investment is risky for people who are not experienced with Bitcoin, moreover Bitcoin is the most reliable coin in cryptocurrency. But it is true that every person should be cautious before investing, otherwise it is always good for a person to be cautious as he may face losses at any time. Those who are new to Bitcoin investment should not only acquire knowledge about Bitcoin but also have long term plan in mind as investing is never profitable if it is short term. When an investor invests he must hold which will give him good success in future so investing in bitcoins cannot be profitable in short term so invest for long term. Patience is definitely one of the most important things in investing, the more patience one can achieve in the future, so knowledge and experience and patience are necessary for all investors before investing.

There is no need to be too afraid of the risk in investing in Bitcoin as long as you still believe in Bitcoin and still have a long-term plan to keep holding it and also buy it when you have funds that you can still use for it. Because sometimes the fear of the risk can also make some people hesitate to start investing in Bitcoin and will not lead them easily to continue to like Bitcoin in the long term because they remember the risk too much. Indeed, in terms of investment, knowledge and patience are needed as well as caution in choosing and storing the assets that have been purchased, but this is not to scare more people, which could make people not dare to take steps.

What do you mean when you say we should invest in Bitcoin with careful, there is nothing to be careful about investing in Bitcoin because is not like putting your money into investment that would claim all your funds because is one of the most safest digital investment you can ever think of, so instead of the word being careful I think you have use the word investing with what you can afford because that's the only way to represent the careful you are talking about, also not everybody that believes that Bitcoin is as risky as you believe because to some persons is the best investment that has lesser risk compare to others, so perhaps it seems is from the experience you had from the kind of investment you were doing that made you think that way

That is why you must take the risk in the bear market to invest some money in BTC before you can be able to earn profits, when other people that invested in BTC are earning profits because the risk is very important to those that take the step always to invest what they can afford to lose in BTC investment. Having the knowledge of BTC before buying BTC from the market, it will open your eyes to see many opportunities  that will make you to hodl  for long period of years because that is what some newbies that lack the knowledge of BTC are experiencing from the market, which they need to have the knowledge to improve in the BTC investment.

I guess patience is among the knowledge we are talking about here, because once you have the knowledge and patience in your BTC investment, you will never fall victim of buying BTC when the price is high in the market because you no that it will not allow you to buy plenty of BTC than to exercise patience for the price to dump to your satisfaction before you can buy and hodl for long.

Hahahahaha you are very funny @Hatchy most of my post in this thread may look bullshit to you and still make a meaning to other person's here you sounds as if we are issues here but am really excited that you are always going through my bullshit post .
If you are educated enough you will know that there is a different between having a basic knowledge and having proper knowledge as you have just said. It is good to have some basic knowledge before into Bitcoin investment but waiting to get all necessary proper knowledge is the area am saying is not good because there is no way you can get proper knowledge without being into Bitcoin investment for that is when you will know more about how Bitcoin investment works for you can't be outside and know all what is happening inside you must be an insider.
So what am saying is to get started so you will know more however Bitcoin investment works.

When it come to Bitcoin investment and holding for long, I have have seen people with zero knowledge at the initial stage getting into bitcoin and successfully held onto it. At the end it turned that the investor became successful with it. There are people who invested in bitcoin through the influence of others who probably knew more about bitcoin than they do and it turned out very well for them. I will use a practical example of what happened when I was in the university. My first year in school, a friend of mine who his elder brother knew Bitcoin investment asked us to invest in bitcoin as early as 2016. I refused back then because I felt I knew nothing about it and I needed to learn about bitcoin investment first. My friend invested some good amount of money in it, he just decided to follow his brother advise. He bought the Bitcoin and stored it in his wallet and deleted the wallet from his phone, after storing the seed phrase securely.

 When we graduated from University that was when he referred back to the wallet where he stored his bitcoin and he saw a reasonable amount of money far beyond what he invested. At that point he said there was no need to look for a job as he has enough capital to set himself up. It was then he began to learn more about bitcoin and making more research about it. Myself on the other hand I didn't invest back then, and even when I finally got the knowledge about bitcoin, I already used up the cash I had back then so I was hindered from investing because of no cash available. So between me and my friend, I became a man with knowledge but without bitcoin, while my friend was the person that jumped in back then, had Bitcoin success from the investment he made with zero knowledge back then. He still got the knowledge later on after successful holding his bitcoin for over 6 years. So between me and him I became the foolish one while he was considered the wise one.

Bitcoin investment defies human logics, he was considered the wise one because he invested and got the knowledge after many years. The knowledge is not what's going to bring in the cash that will be used to make the first and subsequent purchases. Sometimes we can leverage on other people's knowledge and make firm decision that will better our lives, we must not get our own first hand knowledge at the initial stage. We can figure things out later on.

You can call it whatever you like, but when it comes to Bitcoin I think it's worth it. Let's not allow the meaning that others assigned to words or alphabet define us and our investment decisions. Bitcoin is not a pump and dump Coin.

But there is nothing wrong in jumping into buying bitcoin. This is Bitcoin we are talking about and not just some stupid shitty coins. After all those who made the decision to jump into buying bitcoin years ago and has held it for long time hasn't regretted doing that. This year Bitcoin broke the last ATH and set another one. So it has been more of an upward trends than downward trends over the years. Provided an investor has his funds and he is determined to hodl Bitcoin for long, and the investor has set up his emergency funds and reserved funds and have  sources of income, I don't see anything bad in jumping into bitcoin investment.

Actually there is, last year was a better time to buy bitcoin, if you missed it then, last month was better, if you missed it then too, last week was, if you missed also, yesterday was perfect if you missed yesterday then today is a good time to buy bitcoin than waiting for tomorrow. As no one knows the direction that bitcoin will be heading when tomorrow comes.

This might not actually be true, as the choice of acquiring proper knowledge or not is subjective to individual investors and preferences. As there are no laid down principles as regarding if an individual should acquire proper knowledge or not before buying and enjoying Bitcoin investment.

I don't get what you mean by acquiring enough knowledge before you can invest, with what I know the knowledge you need as a newbie is just to know the basics like how to buy Bitcoin, the best wallet you can use to hold your Bitcoin and how to DCA to enable you to buy the little you can slow and steadily continuously as for having enough knowledge before someone can invest as you said, I don't think that is part of the investment, don't forget that having enough knowledge can be discouraging because there are misleading news and articles that intending investors may come across that may discourage them to discontinue their plan to invest.

Remember there are some aspect of this investment that we learn in the system, as spectators there are things you won't learn once you are not into the investment, when it comes to Bitcoin investment we should know that it's a long-term investment which requires perseverance and endurance to continue the journey to our expected destination as such we should abide by the aforementioned terms to get keep accumulating for us to have a bulky portfolio.

A novice to bitcoin who doesn't know anything about bitcoin but want to start investing in bitcoin because he believes in bitcoin as a store of value or an investment will only need to learn the basic knowledge of bitcoin before he can start buying. This is because he only needs to be buying bitcoin alone and nothing more, while he can be learning of other aspects of bitcoin when you has started buying because his plan is to invest in bitcoin for a long-term, so he has enough time to learn whatever he wants to know.

What are some of the basic knowledge of bitcoin.
-Invest with your extra cash i.e part of your discretionary income.
- Invest and hodli for a long term to reduce the risk of volatility.
-how to open an account in an exchange and buy bitcoin.
 
Bitcoin proper knowledge is too broad for a new beginner to learn before he starts investing because it can gake up to two years and more still you have not known everything because bitcoin technology is being developed on time to time to increase the security and that is why it was an open source so that everyone is welcome to contribute to the development. I believe that you Hatchy don't have 80% of bitcoin knowledge including technical but you have a bitcoin investment. The best wallet to use can also be learnt during investing.

A brand new investor only needs to have the basic knowledge of bitcoin and figure out how much from his discretionary income he will use to buy bitcoin that will enable him keep on buying continuously every week or month for 4-10 years and above, while he learns whatever he wants to know along side with investing.

If the new beginner does not have any reserve funds, he can build his bitcoin investment with one part of his discretionary income and use the other part for his emergency funds because it is very compulsory to have an emergency funds. Investing is bitcoin is better done by pratical because that is when you will feel the emotions of the market ups and down and will be able to sacrifice, be patient and discipline yourself till you reach your bitcoin target so that you can keep buying and not sell when it is not of your will.

A new investor does not need to wait for the dip before he start his bitcoin journey, because it is impossible to know when the dip will come and it will be useless waiting for the dip that may come or not. What if the dip did not come, it means that he will keep waiting and waiting, missing all tge opportunities in the market assuming he got started immediately. DCA method is good for beginners to start buying their bitcoin with so that they can continue buying regularly and growing their bitcoin investment overtime because the more you wait, the less bitcoin you buy and you should know that bitcoin price waits for no one.

@Hatchy, we all are here to learn and sometimes we make mistakes and believe me if there's no mistake there wouldn't be corrections and the reason why this thread have been active for years now is because even people that got some knowledge through this thread do come back again for more clarification and I believe those are the primary reasons why @JayJuanGee have also been following up this thread for a long time now so if you are observing someone saying shits here the best is to call them no order instead of concluding that they are saying bullshit. I went through the merit history of Zackz5000 and saw he earned some merits from Jayjuangee perhaps his bullshit still got him Merits. What am trying to say is that we can equally correct each other without demeaning or degrading ourselves as a result of the mistakes we made.

Looking at the reply you quoted, the only mistakes I saw he made was saying that getting enough knowledge about Bitcoin before starting to make investments may lead to delay in accumulations which is a very wrong statement he made there because Bitcoin is an asset of ease, no one should be under any pressure to invest in Bitcoin and investing in a valuable asset like Bitcoin should be done on personal conviction and not based on persuasion to invest. However, anyone can decide either to start making investments in Bitcoin before sorting for a wider knowledge or to also acquire more knowledge about Bitcoin before venturing into it but the only thing I could figure out from what Zackz5000 is saying is that waiting to acquire all the necessary knowledge can lead to procrastination of which it's true reason being that a new investor might see the price of Bitcoin as being too high after getting the fundamental knowledge and may be thinking that it's not the right time to invest which can make them to start waiting for a DIP before they buy and in the process of waiting for the appropriate time they wish to invest, they might start developing mixed feelings which can end up not accumulating again.

Your last line about gaining knowledge then buy the DIP and HODL, what if the DIP doesn't come after gaining knowledge should they not invest?. For all I know, knowledge is practical so what will be the essence of acquiring knowledge without actions (investing)? Perhaps the both can go simultaneously. However, no one can have a complete knowledge about Bitcoin investment but as we invest we learn continually.

I keep reading through most of your replies on this thread and to me is all bullshit. Again your quoting habit is bad. How will you rush invest in something you have no knowledge about? Isn't this what we call the FOMO? Just because you feel that you might miss out on the potential profits from investing in BTC, then you rush into buying? There's nothing like no time when it comes to Bitcoin investment. There will always be a chance for you to jump into the train. Acquiring proper knowledge first is the best way to enjoy your BTC investment. This way you don't end up getting scared in little dips that come in the market and then end up selling at the wrong time. That's the initial purpose of this thread. You again knowledge, buy the dip then hodl

Acquiring enough knowledge before Investing into Bitcoin may lead to delay in accumulating Bitcoin, the time you will use in acquiring enough would have been an opportunity to accumulate enough Bitcoin.

You can get fucky started now and acquired more about Bitcoin investment when you are already into Bitcoin investment, waiting to acquire enough knowledge may also lead to procastination so I think the best is not to wait to learn more or know more about Bitcoin before venturing into it but to get started and figure out more about Bitcoin when you are into it because delay in Bitcoin accumulation maybe very dangerous so it is better you get started now and start accumulating more Bitcoin for there is not time to be waiting to acquire enough knowledge before going into Bitcoin investment.

Bitcoin investment is inherently risky and we should invest with that risk in mind. But we must be very careful in investing in Bitcoin, if we can invest carefully, Bitcoin can achieve a lot of success. Those who are new to Bitcoin investment must acquire enough knowledge about Bitcoin before investing in Bitcoin. If they do not acquire enough knowledge about Bitcoin then they will not achieve good success in Bitcoin investment. Sometimes it is seen that even experienced investors lose patience so definitely our patience is very important when investing in Bitcoin. If we can invest with patience and long-term planning, surely we will be successful in investing.

You should also learn strategy to mitigate your spendings to be Able to accumulate a sizable amount within the time frame or the time horizon of your investment without fucking up down the road. Because most folks who thinks that investment is all about long time or short term without also learning how to manage their fund properly may end up over spending or mismanage their fund and later sell off their starshes due to little dip in price of bitcoin or wrong speculation. I think the major thing to Focus in bitcoin investment is to have a sizable upfront amount to be able to keep the accumulation process continuously till a reasonable amount is achieved without deviation or panic of selling withing a short period of time when their is down trend. Because surely one factor of an investor is also patient, an investor who is not patient may not be able to make profit in the lung run, because surely he will be tempted to sell off without meeting up their goals.

Like I said lack of patient, Lack of planing, lack of Focus is also a factor in addition to your sudjestion is what makes people not to achieve a reasonable amount or stop to invest in bitcoin. But for the other statement you made  here" lose their investment" I don't know what you mean. Because it's suely looks like it portrays another meaning from your intended meaning like a hack or stolen btc.

Waiting is a backup option assuming it will happen in the next few days. For example, if you set a strategy with several divisions of your cash flow such as reserve funds or regular funds.

Reserve funds can be used to wait for the opportunity to buy at a falling price.

While regular funds are used every week with routine accumulation that is done.
Yes, the conclusion is buying regularly with DCA + with waiting purchases with reserve funds, this strategy should have been planned by someone before they started investing. Buying dips or waiting is one of the best ways to increase btc ownership by going hand in hand with DCA every week.

I think the criteria for collecting a weekly budget in order to be able to wait for the price to drop far is an unwise decision. Yes, that's just my opinion because instead of waiting longer, of course they can be assumed as someone who continues to postpone purchases.

I don't know if they learn their lesson.  It is like dumb ideas are embedded in their brains and they cannot stop doing the same thing that does not work.  Wind_FURY's a great example of this idea of waiting to buy the dip, and he keeps repeating it, even though he should realize from his October 2023 experience that his waiting to buy the dip did not work out for him very well.. but he still believes it, practices it and spouts it out as if it is a great and broadly applicable idea that works, especially for poor people.

Part of my problem remains his emphasis that poor people need to do something like this, which seems to make even less sense for poor people to use waiting as their investment strategy.

Personally, I think that part of his problem is a kind of mixing up of the meaning of disposable income and mixing up the idea of investing money that you cannot afford to lose.  So he is actually investing with money that he needs rather than what he can afford to use, so it is mixing up his cashflow management because he is likely using money that he needs rather than money that is extra.

Surely, I understand that there are poor people around the world who barely have any discretionary income, so it makes it hard for them to invest into bitcoin or into anything else, and truly folks who don't have disposable income should not be investing, yet how else are they going to get ahead?  They have to figure out ways to increase their income and/or to cut their expenses.. .. which truly if they are used to living hand to mouth and never having any savings or investment at all, if they end up being able to invest $520 ($10 per week) into bitcoin for a year, and then all of a sudden it goes up 2x or 3x, they won't be able to resist except to tap into that money, which might make it nearly impossible for them to ever get ahead if they cannot both invest into bitcoin and to let their investment ride for 4-10 years or longer.


I agree that is another problem with letting the cash build up, and maybe even worse for someone who hardly has any bitcoin.  On the other hand, if such person already has a decent stash of bitcoin, then maybe it is not as BIG of a problem to let the cash build up, even if they end up using the cash on something else.. .. but yeah, if their real goal is to be building up their BTC stash, they might not realize how much disadvantaged they are becoming by not making the commitment to just buy BTC regularly rather than letting the fiat stash build up and run risks of getting tempted into using such cash for some other non-bitcoin purpose..


Yep. it is true that the DCA buyer is quite likely going to end up with a higher average cost per BTC as compared with the successful buyer of the dip, yet there are some circumstances in which the BTC price does not dip to the levels of the intended buy, so then that person who is waiting gets stuck in a trap of waiting and waiting and if the BTC price goes up, there could be questions regarding if it might become more practical to raise the waiting level BTC price to that such buying on the dip becomes more likely to fill.  So frequently the buying on the dip becomes way too tentative and way too whimpy, and not really reinforcing buying practices that will also contribute towards more enthusiasm and interest in studying and learning about bitcoin rather than passively waiting and not doing anything for potentially weeks, months and very extended periods of time that might even result in psychological blockages in regards to the value of holding bitcoin that might even contribute to feelings of prematurely selling rather than ongoingly buying to reinforce beliefs in bitcoin.

Sure, the ongoing buyer may likely run into another problem which is running out of money when the BTC price is dipping, so there could be some value for the ongoing buyer to hold some value aside for buying on dips so that he does not feel as bad when the BTC price drops and he might not have any money remaining to be able to buy more.


Yep. They happen quite frequently in bitcoin, and we might not know when they are going to happen or how to exactly to prepare for them, yet when they happen, the best place to be is "in" rather than "out."  It is like the example of BTC price moves to the upside happen about 10 or so days each year, and if you are not into bitcoin on those 10 days (that are not known in advance) then you lose most of your gains for the year.  In other words, you gotta be in it to win it, and also you should always make sure that you are prepared for up, even if you might choose to sell some or to fail to buy or to wait, you should also consider that whatever decision that you make that is taking away from your preparation from up, nonetheless, are you still sufficiently/adequately prepared for up at all times, just in case?  Each of us are responsible to answer that question for ourselves, and if we fuck up, then no one is going to rescue us. We are responsible for our own actions that include our failures/refusals to act.


Yep. time in the market tends to be much better than timing the market, and so whenever we are making our DCA buys while we are accumulating BTC, we buy BTC with the belief that it is good to get in and to get more BTC. Personally, I think that there can be some times in which it takes a while for the BTC price to work itself out, and so there could be extended periods of time in which our portfolio holdings are in the negative, yet I have my doubts that there are many folks who are in the negative after a few years of ongoing DCA.  Yeah, sure the more problematic portfolios would have been the ones who made decently large BTC purchases towards the top of the BTC price range, and then his subsequent DCAs at lower prices were not enough to overcome the earlier lump sum buys at higher prices, so there surely can be some BTC portfolios that might take a while to get back into profits, even after several years of ongoing BTC buying.   

Most of us also recognize and appreciate that there are no guarantees in BTC that it will end up being profitable, so we likely consider bitcoin as an asymmetric bet to the upside in which the most that we can lose is 100%, so in that regard, we should be choosing our BTC investment size in accordance with our weighing of these various considerations as well as considering our other 8-9 personal factors.