Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 153. (Read 142509 times)

The reason why so many people find it difficult to invest bitcoin is because they do not understand bitcoin. If people really understand the volatility of bitcoin they won't feel panic when the price of bitcoin goes dip. It is only when one lack understanding of bitcoin then the dips of the market always looks dangerous while the the increase is only what looks attractive.

You really need to understand the volatility of the market before making decision to invest in bitcoin, one must have understanding that if making profit in bitcoin is interesting then the dip must also be interesting too. Having money is not just enough to invest bitcoin,  if you don't bitcoin volatility will always br a threat to you which can cause you to sell you coin without having any good investment results.

True, I believe that's what someone was trying to tell me lately that Bitcoin investment can be done with someone who is financially ready ^{not stable} because when you are ready, the kind or number of job you do will be a factor to you having some kind of stability to your investment because it's not easy having or hoping on just a job to meet ends need then saving up through that job without having a backup plan because one day you will get to use or temper those coins.

I really envy those who are privileged to get the awareness of Bitcoin while they are still in school, probably with less financial responsibilities and still under the guidance and provision of their parents. I usually encourage such people to endeavor to take their finances seriously and one of the ways of doing that is to invest in Bitcoin with some part of their pocket money. They can do this even if it is $10 per week or bi-weekly, they can go that over the years they are in school and this will amount to something remarkable. However, I will not encourage anyone to use their tuition fee to invest in Bitcoin, because the tuition fee is not money they can afford to keep in Bitcoin for a long time. It is like investing the basic funds into Bitcoin which is not advisable.

In this section there is an experienced investor as well as in this section there is a new investor so do not spread any information which may be harmful to the newbies. I will say a little less than what I know is necessary so that what I have said fully will be of use to another person. When I started investing I got help from others. If I didn't get the right information then my investment strategy might have been wrong. Some of those who follow DCA investment strategy may come with good financial support, some may invest a part of the total cost savings in DCA method, and there are some students who save their tuition fee money and invest here.

That is, no matter the professional person who invests, the plan of all but one is to invest and leave it as a long-term plan for the future. So that those investors reach a stage of age and get substantial benefit from this investment. If we have the right intention to do something then we can manage money for that work in any way. 

I see there are many investors who earn money through this forum or online and with that money they are now doing business but it is a big achievement and gain for that investor. But before starting there will be one thing for all that they should not rush and take right decisions at right time.

An example might be helpful here, and there could be a couple of ways that decisions to diversify could take place and they do not necessarily involve selling BTC - though situations in which someone over allocates to bitcoin might result in some selling that might also be motivated to diversify... so it is not easy to overly generalize the circumstances in which a bitcoin investor might start to conclude that he has enough BTC or more than enough BTC.

Frequently, it seems that newbies will be talking about diversification in the beginning of their investment rather than later down the road, and so surely the way that an investment evolves may also affect how diversification decisions are made, and again there might not be any need to sell BTC during those kinds of situations, even though surely Troytech seems to be talking about selling BTC in a kind of context in which the BTC price goes up so then profits are taken and put into other assets, and those are not necessarily wrong ideas, even though it surely could be the case that there is a bit of a trading mentality going on that might still ultimately result in too many BTC being sold too soon and then getting put into either inferior investments or into consumption items that are couched as investments.. which is also not even necessarily a bad thing to get some pleasure out of the wealth that we accumulate as long as we aren't deceiving ourselves into some kind of erroneous beliefs regarding the trade-offs that we might end up making.


It is true that there are likely a lot of newbie investors who might not realize that bitcoin allows them to invest with quite small amounts and to build up their investment over time, and so sometimes poor people will either fail to invest or they will over invest in part motivated by incorrect ideas that they need a lot of capital to get started and/or to maintain their investment.

So when they actually put investing into bitcoin into practice, even in fairly modest ways, they may well come to realize that they do not need as much capital in the beginning as they had previously believed to have had been necessary and yeah, maybe even after a whole cycle, they have still ONLY built a relatively modest bitcoin investment and they are still in their early BTC accumulation stages, they still might start to come to appreciate that bitcoin investing (and any investing) tends to take a lot of time, and they end up being in a much better place after 4 years of investing as compared with if they had not invested into bitcoin... so they are both reinforced in the idea and personally learn through experience in regards to the better practices (including that they also may have personally learned from some of their application mistakes in their first whole cycle of investing into bitcoin).   

So surely sticking through a whole cycle and being able to make it through a whole cycle should well be a learning experience, even if several mistakes are made along the way, too.

As _BlackStar, there may well be some members who are barely making ends meet, so they might have some weeks where their disposable income is not enough to buy BTC, and they also might end u selling some of their BTC when they should be buying, holding and/or using their back up funds or their emergency funds to take care of their expenses prior to spending from their bitcoin holdings... and yeah, there can be a lot of struggles for some newbies (especially poor ones) to both invest into bitcoin and also to maintain emergency funds, so these can be difficult areas to balance and to either not mistakes or to learn from mistakes when they are made.

Sometimes it could be that a user might have been carried away and allowed himself to be influenced by peers, who tends to fancy the idea of trading than holding bitcoin. Because it's very uncommon for someone who has been supportive of the idea to buying bitcoin and holding for long, all of a sudden starts going against that idea that he once defended and tends to fancy trading in the same thread. Think about it, because to me it doesn't really makes sense. Your point is a valid one too, but this is someone that has been supporting the idea of long term hold. So if you ask me I will say that it's not about them being unemployed or not having a good financial background, but a matter of listening too much to peers who fancy trading over long term hold. His close peers might be people who are seeing little  profits from trading and he got carried away. You know when someone starts to listen to different people that have different opinions about one particular subject, he will tend to follow the one that is constantly seeing and hearing from. Sometimes people don't make decisions on their own without consulting other who they feel or see as a mentor or role model, hence the reason we are seeing a different perspective from what the person was previously known for.

 

I agree with you and am very grateful to you for throwing more light to what I have said already, with your statement I strongly believe that you understand my point of view, many newbies wants to be jack of all trade master of known and we already know that this is not part of Bitcoin investment, in every journey there is always a starting point and I believe there should be a goal set for every individual to achieve at the end of their Bitcoin journey, that's why it is important for intending and existing investors to take it one step at a time in other to achieve their aim of investing in the said investment.
When most of us statred this journey we know nothing but today we can testify and tell people what we have learnt so far, if we waited to have more knowledge before investing in Bitcoin, we would t have reach where we are today, I have always known that learning is a continues process and for us to learn, we must be part of the process, if not , we can't learn.

I agree with you that profit is one of the encouraging factor that triggered the interest of many investors in Bitcoin investment but existing and intending investors should know that this profit is not achievable immediately it is future thing and for us to get it right we must keep buying the little we can consistently and continuously until we are sure that our portfolio has reach level we want it to be and we keep holding for the future which is long-term to get the profit we have waited for, in conclusion we must not wait to buy when the market is dip since we can actually use DCA to buy the little we can at any given time, buying at anytime is good and as time goes on if the market dips you can increase your capital and buy more but waithing till it dips before buying is not advisable.

The reason for investing in long-term is because of how volatile bitcoin, because there is constant changes in the market (favourable & unfavourable)  of which holding for long term gives an investor the advantage to maneuver these conditions.  Along an investment journey  different situations and market conditions will unfold itself  but staying committed and dedicated to your well-thought-out plan is what matters keep building your portfolio to hit a good profitable target rather than sell your holdings  because of short-term changes.

As an investor  with a long-term vision selling because of market conditions means you don't really believe in the growth potentials of bitcoin and by doing so also imply that you're allowing emotion cloud your decisions rather than sticking to your plan and strategies and not letting short-term fluctuations destabilise your aims.

Because of the nature of Bitcoin I don't think there's a nice or best time to invest or accumulate because its variation is what we can't predict correctly but the good news is that if one invest now and Bitcoin skyrocket definitely you are going to be on profit. Some people invest in Bitcoin not because they don't know how Bitcoin works but because they want to turn millionaire and billionaire over night ( impatient) that's why they choose memecoins while some people actually lack's knowledge on how Bitcoin works and how to go about it, that is why it is very good to be inform because lack of knowledge can result to a very big disaster.

New Bitcoin Investors and Old Investors why they should Wait for Market Dips. If they adopt DCA strategy in their investments and plan to hold for long term then they can buy or be ready to buy anytime with available funds. I don't think it is very convenient to just buy dips all the time because any situation arises in the market at any time. As you mentioned the price of bitcoin touched $54k then it went up again. So those who didn't buy Bitcoin at that price but thought it would go lower may be regretting the rise in Bitcoin prices right now. Likewise, if the price of Bitcoin rises again from here, they may regret it. Then they will have a reason to regret why they didn't buy bitcoins at that price to invest. That's why DCA investment always gives us an opportunity to buy Bitcoin whether it's a market dip season or a bullish season.
Before investing in Bitcoin, the investor should pay attention to his reserve fund because even if the price of the coin falls in the market, he can use his reserve fund to continue investing. Every dip may scare the investors but if there is enough money to invest, the dip creates more opportunities for the investors, moreover, the level of buying bitcoins increases during the dip season due to continuous DCA.

if you're investing for the long run you're investing for the long run and if you're not that's purely the case. There's nothing like investing for the long run and then trying to sell midpoint along the way because you feel diversification is the way to go or that it's when you've sold at that point that  you've made profit. Mind you that the reason you're selling in this context is because of the market condition that's fluctuating around this price and you feel that it's not favourable for you. It means you've not learned how to manage your emotion and how well you respond to market condition.

No one is suggesting that you will never sell your holding. You will eventually sell it at some point but barely selling because of the market condition mean you weren't ready for long term investment in the first place.
one thing about engaging in investment discussion as this is that even when you don't have the finance to carry it out as a new person in the system, what you're doing is that you're building a mentality that will help you invest well when the resources comes to your disposal. Knowledge is important and maybe it's not everyone that's engaging in this space that is actually doing what he's saying based on limitations of finance but believe  me that a lot of people have started building thier portfolio because they've engaged in this discussion even when at the onset they lacked the idea on how to go about it and never knew it was even possible for them to start somewhere small. Before spending a full circle in the system, I believe you are better prepared to learn, unlearn, relearn and apply all you've learned into use and yet make all the necessary mistakes which will better prepare prepare you for your investment goal. I believe the journey is not a straight forward and an ideal one that you're certain will follow a set out trajectory of continuous buying and never making mistakes at a point. A lot will go down most expecially at this entry phase when you're battling with grasping the right information and sourcing for enough finance that will take care of both your investment, money for upkeep and serve as your emergency funds.

I totally agree.
One thing is to say and to understand, the other is to follow it for real.
It comes with the knowledge at hand and the experience from the past, whether it is mistakes or successes, in my opinion.

For sure, part of the reason to participate in a forum like this (and even in a thread like this) is to bat around ideas including talking about experiences or our making plans and strategies related to bitcoin, so surely I am already aware that the already existing experiences, knowledge and/or cashflow situation is likely to vary quite a bit among members, and so even if my post seemed to have some direct criticisms of Troytech, I am not largely still just attempting to respond to the points that he made in a generally applicable way, including providing my opinion about what seems to have been some inconsistencies in the current ways he is talking about bitcoin in contrast to some of his earlier posts.. and while at the same time emphasizing that this is an investing thread and not a trading thread.   Similar kinds of criticisms can be given in regards to a member who is seeming to mix up ideas of trading in regards to their investment discussions whether they have a lot of discretionary income or not. 


Whether poor or rich, it can take a long time to build up good habits, and surely folks who have low levels of discretionary income will be tempted to invest beyond their discretionary income, so then they end up devolving into trading/gambling rather than investing, and sure there can still be ways to accomplish both, yet those kinds of trading discussions seem to go beyond the scope of this thread.. .since there is a bit of presumption that guys are investing from their discretionary income and they are able to dedicate 4-10 years or more to their investment into bitcoin, and yeah, I understand that not everyone is going to agree to those kinds of parameters or even end up practicing in accordance with investing rather than trading.


We do spend a certain amount of time engaged in semantical arguments in this thread, so there is nothing really wrong with repetition of ideas and clarification, and surely I understand that there could be cases in which guys might come into bitcoin with intentions to invest, but they may devolve into some other practice that might be trading or gambling or selling too much too soon because they had not realized that they had invested beyond their discretionary income and a variety of scenarios in which putting theory to practice can really help guys to learn, even if some of the learning ends up being through mistakes.

You may have aware that not all of the users discussing in this thread have a good financial background. They are also very likely to be unemployed and just hoping for a signature campaign to bring in profits - while their knowledge of investing is learned over time. They certainly understand the strategy theoretically - but chances are, they don't have the courage to do what they say.

I don't mind the theory they put forward as long as it's not misleading - but not all of them understand how to apply it properly. It's even possible that they sell bitcoin every signature campaign payment period ^{[instead holding it long-term]} just to make ends meet, and then how do they build a portfolio or diversify assets when other budget support is not available.

Previously you were talking about building up your BTC portfolio and appreciating that it could take a long time to build up your BTC holdings. 

So now you changed your mind, and you think that it might be good to sell?

And if you diversify you are going to sell bitcoin in order to accomplish such a thing?

When are you going to start with such selling of BTC and/or diversification?  How much do you need to have invested into bitcoin when selling becomes part of the strategy?

Sure, here we are mostly talking about accumulating bitcoin, yet I am not opposed to the idea of considering at what point we might have enough bitcoin, so then we might transition somewhat out of our need to accumulate bitcoin, so does that mean that we go straight to selling bitcoin or might we have some other considerations in regards to management and maintance of our BTC stash?

As I recall, you did not start accumulating bitcoin until recently, maybe even in the last year or so, even though your forum date shows that you registered a couple of years ago, yet from your earlier descriptions of your buying of BTC, I can hardly understand how you would be transitioning out of your BTC accumulation stages, so maybe you can explain how you are now considering selling techniques rather than remaining focused on buying and/or accumulating of BTC... unless perhaps you cannot get yourself out of a trading/gambling mindset?

I will admit that there are not a lot of guys can even get through a whole BTC cycle without getting distracted into  trading/selling/gambling when they should still be in fairly early stages of their BTC accumulation journey, so yeah a lot of guys lack patience to really continue to accumulate and to get to some kind of a meaningful BTC accumulation leavel in which the BTC accumulation helps to inform them about the next steps rather than talking theoretical nonsense about supposed needs to sell BTC in order to diversify... and all of those kinds of mumbo jumbo talking points that tend to show that their thinking is distracted by perceptions of short-term fiat "profits."

You are very optimistic when you said long-term investors should never sell their Bitcoin. Let us be realistic here, the market conditions can change at any time and there may be instances where selling would be a strategy to adopt. Either to maximize profit or to diversify. There is a great advantage of holding for the long term which we all know but there is no possibility that one day we will say. Like what is the point of investing in the first place? Meanwhile, the idea of solely depending on short-term price movement and ignoring the knowledge we have gathered about Bitcoin investment might lead to suboptimal outcomes we do not expect.

Before investing every investor thinks that they will have money and they will buy Bitcoin with that money and when the market is positive they will sell their investment and earn profit thus they will only continue to make profit. But as simple as new investors plan, in reality this matter is very difficult. So the initial investment must be taken seriously. 

If our plan is to buy bitcoins with the amount of money we have and sell the investment at some profit, then it would not be an investment at all but trading. We know investing and trading are two different things. Business is usually done with a short term profit plan but investment has to be planned for the long term. After investing, if the investor gets some profit temporarily, then the investor should not see the profit and sell the coins but should wait for something better.  It is best for the investor if the investor invests consistently for a period of time. I was new and things were difficult for me too but gradually I tried to learn and took difficult things easy now I don't find it very difficult to invest consistently.

Yeah, but so fucking what about either 2% profits or having had been able to buy 2% more BTC with the same amount when the BTC price had dipped.  We are not talking about trading in this thread.  There are all kinds of other thread that you can go present your trading discussion points, or make your own thread on the topic of trading. 

And, yeah, when we are in the midst of a dip, we might even see that BTC prices are getting to be more than 20% lower than the ATH or even some other price point that we might see. and so we can potentially consider that we are getting a bargain as compared to the earlier BTC prices.  We are alto buy 20% more with the same amount of money and then when the BTC price returns to the prior prices, we are able to skim off 20% profits if we were to be trading rather than long term investing.  When we long term invest, we have the potential of our profits to fold in amongst themselves and so we increase our odds of being able to achieve compounding profits rather than just skimming off profits at various points along the way...

And don't get me wrong, I am not even suggesting that the compounding profits is guaranteed, yet I am suggesting that guys who are in their earliest stages of buying BTC and building their BTC holdings are likely not even that well severed by giving a whole hell of a lot of thoughts in regards to how much he is in profits or not in profits, even though I do appreciate that any of us feel better to be in profits rather than having our BTC holdings being in the negative... but it is very difficult for any newbies to really establish any kind of decently sized BTC stash within their first cycle unless they were able to front-load their investment, which truly is not the situation for a lot of people in world, so I am not going to assume that people are going to be able to front load their investment into bitcoin unless they describe their situations to have had been enabling them to accomplish such front-loading of their BTC investment.   

I understand that the title of the thread is a bit misleading since people see buy the dip and then they start to consider trading kinds of ideas, and surely over the past few years of this thread we have been having battles over the ideas of buying the dip versus just plain ole DCA buying, especially for newbies and especially for members who are inclined to invest for the long term in bitcoin rather than trading.. .. so yeah, we have never been talking about trading in this thread, except maybe incidentally, and also if our goals are to accumulate BTC, then many of us already recognize that selling is not a great strategy in order to achieve accumulation goals, and to the extent that you are trying to use selling as a BTC accumulation method, then at least you are potentially closer to the topic, even though many of us are not too excited about selling to be serving as an effective and reliable technique to accumulate more bitcoin, since it also has likely tendencies to devolve into gambling. just like any trading techniques seem to suffer from that same risk of devolving into gambling.


At least you recognize bitcoin as a long term investment.. so at least, we are on the same page in that regard.


Surely if someone already has BTC then he may well have more luxuries to wait for the dip, yet frequently many of us talk about newbies to BTC are likely going to be better off to just continue buying BTC no matter the price, and sure if they happen to have some extra money come in while the BTC price is dipping, then they may well end up choosing to buy more BTC on the dip with that extra money.  So, yeah, there can be some competing ideas about whether anyone in their earliest of stages of bitcoin investment should be just buying BTC all of the time or waiting for dips, and if they are buying BTC all the time, then they probably woudl be happy to see dips during periods that they are continuing to buy, so even if they had bought a lot of BTC at higher prices, they should be able to recognize and appreciate that ongoing buying is putting them into even more of a proactive position in regards to their bitcoin holdings, rather than waiting around for the BTC price to go back up above their earlier higher buy prices.

As I said earlier in the local board today, new investors and old investors of bitcoin are always happy when the price is in the dip and the bear market because that is the best time to accumulate many to the wallet so that whenever the price goes up they will make good profit from it. And what happened last week in the bitcoin price was also good for short term investors like the price was on $54+k and if an investor bought it at that price and today, it is $56+k and the person would make 2% increase as profit. But the best investment plan is long term so you don't have to both yourself to monitor the market.

And nobody can guarantee the price of bitcoin at all time and that is why it is good for the long term investment. And whenever the price dip then it is to refill the wallet for whatever I have. If someone bought it when it is high and the price  suddenly came down to the dip, he should not panic and all what he should do is to pick courage and keep hodling and one day the price would go up again.

There could be a variety of scenarios in which a newbie started out his investment into bitcoin at the top, including front loading (or lump summing) the investment at or near the top, and so it could be the case that he knew that the BTC price might go down and he just wanted to be prepared for UP, so he lump sum invested just in case the BTC price went up, and yeah, as you mentioned, he may well have accounted for that and already had a plan in place to continue to buy with extra funds that he had held aside for such purposes or alternatively to continue to buy with whatever portion of his disposable income that he would have available on a weekly basis if the BTC price went below his purchase price.  Of course, he could DCA in or he could have even set up predetermined buy amounts at various dip points, so he could combine DCAing and buying on the dip to attempt to lessen the blow of his having had bought higher, which also would end up bringing down his average cost per BTC from the price of his initial lump sum purchase.

Another possibility is that the guy might have had made a mistake and used all of his available money and potentially even gotten out a loan, so that he was pretty much all in bitcoin at his first lump sum price, and then he might not have any extra money to keep buying BTC, and he is using any extra money that he has to service the loan that he had taken out.  Surely, we can see that this second situation is worse than the first, and surely the guy still has good chances of still coming out o.k... .but he might have to wait several years to get back into profits in the event that his discretionary income or situation does not improve in such a way that he would be able to authorize more BTC purchases in order to bring down his average costs per BTC. Surely the guy might also had come into bitcoin with a certain budget that he was going to use for buying bitcoin and that he was not going to go higher than his allocated budget.

Even though there are no guarantees in bitcoin that the BTC price will continue to go up, we can likely see that a guy who has various plans to continue to buy might be better in circumstances that the BTC price dips after his initial purchases, yet surely people are going to have their own ideas in regards to the BTC investment strategies, and some people will have been better at planning and/or having some flexibility to roll with the punches than others.


In this thread, we are not talking about cryptocurrencies and/or shitcoins, so I doubt that it is accurate or even helpful to suggest that the same principles apply to crypto or shitcoins as compared to the principles that apply to bitcoin.

For example, with bitcoin you can invest with only mere basic knowledge levels of your cashflow situation and generally develop a bit of a long term investment approach of 4-10 years or longer, yet the same long term plan cannot be applied to shitcoins and the level of knowledge that you need to get into shitcoins is also quite likely to be greater than bitcoin since you should most likely need to have some considerations regarding what you are getting into and what your timeline might be for getting out. There are likely no shitcoins that you should not consider some sort of an exit plan or an exit timeline or to take into account the various centralized vulnerabilities that almost all, if not all, shitcoins have, even when they might be trying to put themselves out there as decentralized or similar to bitcoin or even claiming to be better than bitcoin in various ways.. You should be attempting to evaluate and study those kinds of claims if you were to even come close to attempting to treat any of the shitcoins as investments rather than trades....

and those kinds of shitcoin-related considerations should neither be brought up in this thread or even attempting to suggest that shitcoin considerations are the same that are made with bitcoin. That is not correct, and it is misleading to lump shitcoins together with bitcoin by suggesting (or implying) that shitcoins need similar kinds of considerations as bitcoin.