Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 259. (Read 123883 times)

Yes I understand what you are saying and that's just the truth. What I was actually saying was that salary earners should not just wait for a dip to buy or take break to see if there will be a further dip before they can buy. Rather they should continue with their weekly DCA and not wait only on the dip. They should buy at all market conditions provided their salary keeps flowing in. Even if they have been buying for the past 2 years they should just keep buying until they have gotten something reasonable. And for people doing low income DCA it could take several years to get a reasonable amount of bitcoin, but what's the rush all about? After all this thread is about buying and hodling, so we shouldn't stop along the way. If we must see positive result, then it must be continuous.

to be honest, some people need to fix their finance before even thinking about buying Bitcoin. how do you allocation just a $10 worth of investment in a whole month and you are hoping it will amount to anything big in the next ten years? I know everyone's income is not the same and while it might be easier for some to invest with something as high as $100 a week, others might not cope with that but we all know that our finance is one aspect of our lives that's very important and that we have to take it seriously and and not allow an average mentality tire us down to taking our investment casually.

The primary reason why we are making bitcoin investment is to ensure our future security is insured and that we don't necessarily have to work till we become extremely old and that's why it's necessary we don't just go about it casually as though we are playing. Their is a popular saying a professor told us while we matriculated into high school that always stocked with me whenever I'm doing a long term something. She said, throughout your stay in school, read as if your your success depends on you and you alone and pray as though you've not read at all and that your succes depends only on God. you should also use that statement as a sort of motivation to incourage you wile buying your Bitcoin. You you have to Buy as if your future depends entirely on the quantity of your bought Bitcoin and work as though you don't have an investment at all. if you're able to blend this mentality into your mind, you will definitely improve on how you take your financial life seriously and it will also go a long way to increase the weekly or monthly allocation you put into buying Bitcoin.

with proper planning An average Man can also  keep to the term of buying the dip whenever there's a dip , not just the rich alone , true that those who are financially stable have more advantages in accumulating more quantities Bitcoin using any of the strategy, but as an average Man that's not that financially stable would consider basing more on planning when accumulating more bitcoin, like putting an reserve money aside in order to buy the dip (he reserve money may not be as big as the rich but it can secure some good quantity for him) mostly when his entry was just right. The rich may be more aggressive and all that in their accumulation due to their financial capability. But if an average Man can be aggressive according to his financial capability without over doing it he won't have  any urge of considering using his emergency or reserved funds to accumulate just in the name of wanting to be more aggressive.
Preventing him from ever tampering with his investment, inorder to cover a certain expenses.

Edited:
you are right, this is one of the reason why most people haven't started investing or accumulating Bitcoin, due to not be able to meet their need with their salary earned. So an individual who's not able to meet his need can't think of investing, because if by any chances they endup investing with such financial situation they would endup selling their investment when it haven't yield them anything inorder to coverup some expenses , because their money was not able to sustain them or enabled them to have an emergency funds. Most people that found theirselves in such situation most time  endup having multiple sources, inorder to have some money they can use to invest and to meet their need . Even though their accumulating money might be small ( still better than none) but if they are frequent it like 4-10 years using %10 of their earnings they would be able to secure a good investment for themselves.

Ultimately it is good for each of us to get our priorities straight, including that a lot of people fail/refuse to invest, and maybe they do not have opportunities to invest, so they may end up working their whole lives without really being able to stop because they don't have enough money to be able to stop or even to slow down without suffering from their lack of any kind of meaningful nestegg.

Bitcoin provides an opportunity for anyone and everyone to invest, even with a relatively small amount, but like you suggest Sim_card, there should be some kind of a meaningful amount in order for the outcome to have some kind of potential for meaningfully impacting the person.

Frequently, I suggest to shoot for 10% of your income and/or expenses, so then at least after 10 years, you would have had invested a whole year's of income. even though surely income levels and expenses are likely to increase over the years, but it seems that investing in bitcoin has a good chances to keep up with and perhaps even outperform inflation(and/or the debasement of fiat currency values).

In the end, it seems to be a matter of priorities, even though surely there are some folks who really do struggle to figure out ways to earn an income that is high enough that they are actually able to invest, so it is hard to blame people for those kinds of circumstances, even though bitcoin does seem to be amongst one of the best ways forward if they are actually able to figure out a way to earn more than their expenses and to stock (stack) some of their value away in some kind of savings/investment - including the need to maintain an emergency fund, too.

Bitcoin investment is not buying of candy, and you are investing for the future, because the value of bitcoin tends to move in an upward trend more than downward. This is why you must venture into something realistic, and worth sacrificing more for. $10 for one month like you said is $120 in a year and in 10 years, it is $1200. Is this the best you can do. How would you transfer your coins from an exchange to your private wallet, is it after 5yrs or 10yrs because your transaction output matters a lot. So that you don't end up having small output, and later in future if tx fees are high, you end up using almost all your profit, if not all for transaction fee, when you are ready to sell your bitcoin in the long run. I believe that as time goes on, and bitcoin price keeps increasing, your $10 will be worthless. This is because the unit it will buy you would hardly have any increase to your portfolio.

Big up mate, if you don't have much on you or cannot afford to invest in bitcoin because of low income, you should try to look for a second means of income to increase your total income or cut down your expenses, so that you will use the excess that you will not be needing for long to invest in bitcoin regularly through DCA. In ten years time, when you look at your portfolio, you will be proud that you increase your income, and used to reasonable amount to DCA regularly. Don't forget that the size of your bitcoin portfolio determines your profit.

Even though we are on a long-term investment journey, at least we already have a small amount of Bitcoin in our portfolio. For this reason, constructive advice is to buy and keep buying so that you will feel satisfied with your BTC ownership. Today Bitcoin has corrected again and this is an opportunity to continue accumulating at cheap prices and don't keep waiting because time passes so quickly that later you will regret it because you postponed the purchase.

3 years is not a short time and of course you need patience to achieve your investment target. I have even gone through the first year and it requires full concentration so that our investment goals can be completed perfectly. Don't delay your purchase because there are lots of big companies out there that continue to accumulate Bitcoin and they continue to buy using the DCA strategy.

This is good for rich investors because they have enough money, which will allow them to accumulate bitcoin anytime there is a dip, and they will not struggle to solve their financial problems. If people who are using their monthly salary to accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy keep buying the bitcoin dip, they might have problems holding their bitcoin for the long term because they will use the money meant to solve their financial problems to buy the bitcoin dip. Since we are all in on bitcoin for the long term, any investor who doesn't have enough money to accumulate bitcoin in the bitcoin dip should concentrate on accumulating bitcoin with the DCA strategy. When it is time to accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy, if bitcoin is in dip, you can still buy it, and if bitcoin is not in dip, you will also buy it and have enough money to take care of your financial needs.

Small word about your "disposable income" meaning a lot. Disposal income is a key vehicle in long-term investment strategies. This catalyst is the driving force for long-term growth in Bitcoin investment. Apart from that there are other elements like investment strategy and right timing...It goes without saying that DCA is the best investment strategy.

Of course I fall in the category of people who have not accumulated enough bitcoin. At my level even I keep accumulating on my DCA for the next 3 years I wouldn't still have enough bitcoin so why will I wait? There is no way am going to wait, instead of waiting I will continue buying. You see lots of people are making this mistake of waiting and it will only hurt them. Even Microstrategy are buying bitcoin in all market conditions and are yet to stop buying, then why will someone like me who has gotten anywhere think of waiting for which market dip before buying, that will never happen. I will encourage everyone to leave the waiting camp and join the continuous buying camp. It is more organic this way!!

from the tome of your responses, it's possible you're still trying to figure out if you can buy with a greater amount or you're yet to start starching at all.

Investing $10 at the end of every month as a DCA strategy only goes to suggest that you're possibly playing too safe maybe because you're still skeptical about the fate of Bitcoin in the future and wouldn't want to risk investing a greater amount into it. But if my assertion is wrong and you're currently DCAing with the $10 a month, then I should tell you how much you would have starched up in the next ten years you're looking at so you can see things better off by yourself.

$10 a month ×12 months =$120
$120 a year ×10 years should give you = $1200. That means that at the end of making a ten year starching, you're only able to get $1200 worth of Bitcoin.
What would be the value of $1200 worth of Bitcoin in the next ten years? Let's assume that Bitcoin doubles it current price or triples it, as long as the quantity of your starch isn't much, your profit wouldn't be much also.

But let's assume you're DCAing with 20% of your $100 weekly pay;
$20 a week × 4 weeks = $80
$80 a month times 12 months = $960
$960 a year × 10 years = $9600 in the next ten years which is a reasonable amount and average person should hope to starch up in the next ten years.

Maybe we should be frank enough to tell ourselves some bitter truth that we can't achieve most of our goals if we are trying to do things in our most comfortable way. I'm never suggesting you invest with an amount that will inconvenience your life throughout your holding stage but pushing yourself a bit further would still do you good in the long run.

I was not saying that the person has $100 per week income.  I was saying that the person has $100 per week that he has dedicated to investing into bitcoin, which presumes a much higher income since we should ONLY be investing from our discretionary income.

Of course, there is another guideline about trying to save or invest 10% or more of your income, which surely is another kind  of target that a person could have so then there would be an attempt to make sure that expenses are going to be less than 90% of the income, but then investing 100% of disposable/discretionary income is usually not a good idea until a person has gotten all of his shit together regarding cashflow that includes considering cashflow variance, emergency fund, reserves and/or float.

If we go with your example of a person who has $100 per week income, then that would be something like $400 per month - so surely there would be needs that all of the expenses would be less than $360 if he was going to choose to invest $40 per month or $10 per week into bitcoin (which yeah is 10% of his income).. now if that same guy had expenses that were $360, but he received a raise or a promotion or was able to increase his income to $800 per month, then maybe his expenses might go up too. .but he would be in a position to potentially invest a higher percentage of his income into bitcoin.. which has to do with refiguring what is his disposable/discretionary income. and surely if the guy is investing into bitcoin, then he likely need to establish an emergency fund that is 3-6 months and also some reserves so that he does not have to dip into his emergency fund unless it is truly an emergency.. so if the guy has expenses of $400 per month, then his emergency fund should be a minimum of $1,200 and perhaps even up to $2,400 and perhaps the first three months would be the most liquid in cash or something like that and the additional amounts could be a bit less liquid as long as he could get it within 3 months. as he is using his liquid portion of his emergency fund.

Of course, how much and how long a guy is able to invest into bitcoin is going to make a difference, but he also has to figure out ways to stay in the game and to attempt to be as aggressive as he can but without over doing it. and another part is to get off zero and get some kind of a regular practice of investing at whatever level he can to get started and then to put various systems in place to keep him investing and keep him in the game at whatever level he is able to and he can adapt as he goes if his income goes up or his expenses go down or whatever might end up happening..


Yep.. that sounds right.

From what you have explained here I understand that we can only buy bitcoin with the money that we are not going to need and not going to need in the next 4-10 years or as long as we are supposed to be in accumulating bitcoin cause we don't want a situation where buy we out ourselves under financial pressure cause we strain our expenses or other stuff just to invest in bitcoin without having proper preventive measures to ensure we are not going to dip our hands back in that invested bitcoin.

And building my emergency which should be up to 3 months or 6 months which should be enough to cater for any emergency and I should not use them for any reason other than real emergencies.

Well nice to for suggested, Your advice seems to work, but when a person has a weekly income of $100 or less, I think they should follow the DCA method and deposit at least $10 per week. After 10 years it will be seen that he has been able to make a good profit.

What I think is most important here is that if a person wants to invest even $10 per month, then after 10 years he will be different from others and profitable.

Whether we are talking about shore term or long term, there is no guarantee of profit, yet I frequently like to suggest that we are not really investing unless we are planning to stay in at least a whole cycle...otherwise there is just an attempt to play the swing.. and even someone with a 4 year timeline might be trying to play the swing of the whole cycle.. which I would not really consider that to be investing either..

But any event, anyone who has been investing is advantaged by having had been investing... surely you are correct about that.

So then the next question for everyone else is that if they have not been investing, then they have to figure out if they are able to establish some kind of confidence regarding their disposable income and if they have any of their disposable income that they are able to allocate towards bitcoin.. even if it might ONLY be $10 per week... it is likely better than nothing.. but surely, I like to suggest $100 per week, even though I know that some people do not have that level of disposable income, so they just have to figure out how much disposable income they have and that they can allocate towards bitcoin in order to have good chances of having more options for themselves 4-10 years or longer down the road.

I mean in general not to look long for a dip, now if one is able to find the maximum dip in 1 week then that is definitely a good thing for short term. But those who have money to invest and those who have been investing consistently for a long time have many advantages. Because I think you'll agree with me that they know they have to wait a few years to get the maximum dip, but it's very difficult to get it nowadays.

But currently only following DCA can't make much profit if one thinks in 1-2 years, but if one does it again in 5-10 years then chances of profit again are very high.

It seems that @Justbillywitt and I are somewhat on the same page here. and you  are the only one suggesting the possibility of waiting more.

I still am not sure why there would be any reason to try to figure out the high and the low unless a guy were to be trying to buy a further dip than we already have had and surely we don't know if there is any further dip and we might not even be able to assume that anyone - Justbillywitt or anyone else - still has extra value that he might be holding back to buy a further dip.

Surely if you are manually employing your DCA every week, then you might try to maximize your buying potential by trying to figure out the dip within the week and to buy the dip; however, if you are having trouble figuring out the dip wouldn't you just buy at any price rather than waiting around with the money or letting it build up?

So in the end, the extent to which you feel that you are even able to wait for further dip depends partly upon if you already have enough BTC, and since an overwhelming number of people do not have enough BTC (which I believe Justbillywitt fits in that category), then they most likely should not be waiting around to try to figure out how much of a further dip there might be at some later point..

Let's say if a guy is buying every week for the past 6 months or 1 year or even 2 years... do the guy think that he has enough BTC and does he believe that he can stop and wait and figure out if there is going to be more of a dip in the BTC price or just buy with his weekly authorized amount?

If the weekly amount is $100, then maybe instead of buying $100 for that week, you decide to buy $50 and then wait for a further dip for the other $50?   But there has already  been a decent dip, so if ONLY $100 is available, then there might be questions about how much waiting is necessary since there has already been a pretty decent dip.   Or would there be some other strategy?

You might not even be in a good position to say @Negotiation, especially since you said that you are not even buying BTC on a regular basis because you have too many expenses... I mean if you are not buying BTC regularly, then you are not prepared for UP, so are you just waiting for more down before you buy?  And, none of us here are really making those kinds of recommendations for guys who don't have much if any BTC.  We already had some down, so it seems that it may well be good to buy at these prices and perhaps save some more for next week depending on when the money comes in (and becomes available).  Are you waiting for more down from here?

I guess part of my point is that any of us here should be suggesting something that we are practicing or that we had been practicing and we think is the better way forward based on where BTC prices are right at this moment and in terms of whether the guy is ongoingly buying or engaging in some other potentially reasonable approach to the matter.

My opinion here is very clear because when you are looking to buy bitcoins you have to look at the low or high prices. You should pay more attention to how much you can save or invest or accumulate bitcoins. Then the continuity in investment will be fine. But if you want to buy bitcoins on your own and invest a large amount, it depends on your personal decision what kind of decision you actually make and with what kind of plan you manage the investment. But if you want to make a plan then I hope @JayJuanGee's suggestions will be very useful in your case

Frequently, I am trying to avoid pigeon-holing guys too much, yet I keep attempting to suggest that there may well be stages that guys should expect to go through, including that there might not be profits in the first stage because the emphasis would be accumulation of BTC rather than whether the BTC holdings are in profits, and sure if you are able to buy some BTC on the dips rather than the nondips (even in the first stage), then there could be attempts to front-load the investment during such dips.. if it is even worth it to try to figure it out.. so maybe figuring out if you are in profits or not may not really start to come until you are towards the end of the first stage, and so being in profits might just be a feel good thing that might not be really necessary to consider, especially in the first stage and especially since there is no selling that would be going on in the first stage.

1st stage - early accumulation - establishing good practices - likely involves 4-10 years (or more) of strict BTC accumulation. .mostly starting out with DCA and/or lump sum investing and optionally buying on dips to the extent that it makes sense to set up those kinds of extra buys without interfering with ongoing and persistent buying that may well be considered forms of DCA and perhaps attempts at front-loading the BTC investment to the extent possible - while setting up and following various kinds of practices to establish and maintain emergency funds/reserve funds/floats and other good financial/psychological practices

 second stage - more advanced accumulation - perhaps involving another 4-10 years of strategic accumulation -  becoming more aggressive and strategic in BTC purchases after having had been practicing in the first stage and getting well organized.. perhaps even starting to diversify more into other assets (not referring to shitcoins, but if you cannot resist shitcoins then maybe up to 10% of your BTC portfolio size could go into shitcoins, without cheating).. so maybe in the second stage a guy would more likely be in profits with his bitcoin, but the BTC portfolio still might not be necessary to be in profits in the second stage since there are no guarantees in bitcoin and also in this stage there is no selling going on, just continued BTC accumulation that might be less rushed than the first stage, yet  perhaps more strategic accumulation since the BTC stash would presumptively start to become a larger and perhaps a larger and larger portion of his networth would be in BTC, and there can even be variance in terms of how much of a guy's networth would be in bitcoin as compared with other assets - to the extent necessary to diversify beyond dollars and bitcoin.. which most likely diversification might be starting to make more sense, but is not absolutely required since diversification in property, stocks, bonds, commodities, cash/cash equivalents are largely various other forms of holding cash. but then less liquid than cash but at the same time could be assets that would be more likely to spend prior to spending bitcoin - especially since part of the presumption of this second stage is that the guy still likely does not quite have enough BTC.

third stage - maintenance perhaps 4-10 years of maintenance .. that might involved both BTC accumulation and selling  - which involves a presumption that the guy has accumulated enough and likely more than enough BTC, and part of the reason that he is justified and authorized to sell is that he has more than enough BTC and he has decent portions (perhaps a overwhelming majority) of his holdings in profits - more likely more justifiable to establish diversification beyond bitcoin and cash (if not already established),..perhaps even increasing standard of living and being more lose with consumption since the BTC investment is likely inevitably on track (by this time) to be reaching the fourth stage in the near future...  presumptions of over accumulation and so there would be presumptions of profits in this stage, especially for the bitcoin that would have been acquired in stages one or two... and there maybe well be some coins that have a lot of compounding value and other coins that are still in more simple profits that are less than 100% profits.. and since there are no guarantees in bitcoin, we cannot completely characterize the level of profits of all of the coins or even the overall holdings in this stage... but the presumption would be at this stage the guy has assessed that he has enough BTC or even way more than enough BTC.. even though he is not quite yet at the fourth stage - but it appears that he is inevitably on-track to make it to the forth stage with either the passage of time or with continued accumulation, even though since he mostly has enough, there may be considerations that just time to pass in order to pass from this kind of a maintenance stage to liquidation at stage 4.

fourth stage - maintenance/liquidation maybe after going through three earlier cycles (or stages) -(which may well could have had taken 12-30 years to arrive at this stage), a guy might be ready to start to live off of his BTC entirely or to supplement other forums of income that he might already have and/or to set up various ways to draw regular passive income from his bitcoin whether it is regular time-based withdrawal or even price-based withdrawal or a combination of those.. and this may or may not mean that the guy has reached fuck you status... Fuck you status would be the ability to completely quit any kind of work,  yet a guy would not necessarily need to completely reach fuck you status in order to consider himself to have had reached the fourth stage and wanting to start to draw upon his BTC to either supplement his income or completely replace it.  Don't get me wrong, the use of the term liquidation does not necessarily mean that the guy sells very much of his BTC and it could well be the case that the BTC continues to increase in value faster than the rate that he is spending it.. absent some actual life situation in which he might actually have to liquidate his bitcoin rather than continuing to just live off it entirely or just to supplement his lifestyle... or even to use his bitcoin in forms of pristine collateral in order to generate income from it without necessarily selling it.

Sure some guys might get through some of the stages faster than other guys and some guys might take way more time to get through the stages than other guys, yet at the same times, guys have to go at their own pace and even realize that it likely takes a long time to get through each of these stages and they might not be able to be rushed beyond the means that a guy has available and in terms of his own measuring of where he needs to be in order to advance to the next stage, and I might even be unrealistic to be attempting to describe such stages as being as potentially being as short as 4 years, and even though they might consider that they will be able to advance to further stages, many of the newer guys here are mostly at various points of the first stage.. .and they sometimes might want to get into the second stage prior to their having had really accumulated enough BTC in order to change into any other strategy or into a more advanced stage that suggests that his BTC accumulation is either on track or perhaps even being overly invested into BTC in order to advance to the next stage.


For sure, guys who are in their first stages of investment should not be wasting their time trying to analyze the market, even though they can study it and try to learn about it... but the main thing is studying and learning about their own finances and psychology in order to figure out how much bitcoin they are able to buy. .. and then on the side, they can learn about bitcoin, but guys should not be delayed in their investment due to their trying to figure out this or that thing about bitcoin's short-term price directions that may or may not end up playing out.


DCA also covers you for buying the dip in case that you don't have extra, you just keep buying and yeah, maybe you saved some extra for buying dips, but the main thing might be that you just keep buying since you don't really know how long the dip will last or how low it will go.


You are not wrong.. but you have chosen a strange way of expressing this idea of "hold enough Bitcoin as to make good profits"

Thinking in terms of profits sounds like short-term trading ideas, and yeah, we will presume that we are likely to be in profits with our BTC after several years of investing into it... and that our BTC has given us more options. .perhaps not losing value as much as if we were to keep the same value in other kinds of fiat-based investments.


DCAing and buying on dips can be great supplements for anyone who had started out with lump sum investment, especially if the BTC price moves against them after making the initial lump sum investments.


You cannot really control how many BTC that you might be able to get, so you can ONLY have some kind of ballpark idea about how much BTC you might be able to accumulate, but you might have some ideas about how much you are able to spend on buying bitcoin based on your disposable income.. so you might have some ideas that you might want to invest as much as you are able to, which might be $500 to $1k per week - especially if you expect to be able to accumulate 2 BTC in 4-5 years (and even that might not be enough if you consider that $500 per week is $26k per year, which would be $130k in two years, which might not even get you two BTC.. but it might potentially be in reach.. and doubling it to $1k per week seems to make it more possible to reach)... we could not necessarily consider the BTC price to remain flat, but we could attempt to project out how much fiat we believe that we will be able to invest... and we have to attempt to be realistic in terms of how much we will be able to earn and invest and how many BTC that might get us.. and we can surely project it out, even though there are going to be several unknowns that we would try to estimate to the best of our abilities.

It always depends on your plans since you are the one who can set your goals towards your accumulation and what you want to achieve also it depends on you the timeline of your accumulation then the methods you want to use.

I don't think it will matter on the price since people can decide to accumulate depends on how many satoshi they can afford and everything is fine on any amount as long as they accumulate then have something to stake for future. But investor should make sure that everything on their side has settle and they will not encounter any problems while accumulating since if they don't have back up funds or separated emergency funds then chances for their plans to fail is high. That's why its better if they are fully prepared on each decision they want to do so they can assure success on their holding plans and can get a good profit in future.

I agree with what you said regardless of what strategy we do whether it's buy on the dip or DCA, everything is still very doable depending on the readiness of each and the plan that has been prepared because after all it must be in accordance with the steps we want to do so that the plan and realisation in making purchases runs smoothly and in accordance with what we expect.

Indeed, this is not easy especially when bitcoin has received a new ATH back and the current bitcoin price is still above $60k but in the end things like this also need to be seen from several sides because when we have focused especially in the DCA that is done then I think it would be unfortunate if it stopped just because the current hagra happened especially if indeed the target that we will achieve is still far enough away so that the price is still correcting I think there is no problem to continue to make purchases according to plan because it is possible that with the increase that is happening now, bullish will still continue to occur even in a longer period of time especially the halving is getting closer.