Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 256. (Read 123883 times)

You have gotten it all wrong in your perception about Bitcoin, Bitcoin is best performed when seen on the long term perspective, and this thread talks only about Bitcoin in terms of long term investment plan and not some fucking trading strategy. You have to reframe from it before you contradict the thread, hence there are better thread to  talk about that, you can go to trading discussion board and explore your trading skills discussion there.

Bitcoin is not a quick and get rich scheme that is one mistake alot of people are making seeing Bitcoin as a quick and get rich quick,  buying low and selling quickly after a price rebound doesn't apply in Bitcoin as an investment rather you accumulate a sizeable Bitcoin over a long time and have the compounded value of your investment over time. There is  so much risk associated with trading unlike investing,  there are emotional devastation when it comes to trading when you buy low and the market keep dipping the more you will panic and probably sell at lost in other not to loss completely and that is more like gambling. Alot has already been discussed as regards to Bitcoin in terms of investment where various strategies of accumulation has been exhaustibly talked about, the dca strategy is where you buy Bitcoin with a fixed amount of money in a regular intervals irrespective of the price over a period of time and the lump sum that is buying in bulk, buying when there is a dip is an  added advantage for a no or low coiner to accumulate more Bitcoin, there is nothing wrong buying  at every dip that is if you have the finance, reason being that you can not determine the outcome of what will be the minimum dip so buying at every dip if you can is another way of seizing opportunity of buying more Bitcoin at a cheaper price. All this can be achieve with a proper financial planning by making provisions for your daily upkeep, emergency, reserved and float funds. Hodl is a watch word that is meant to encourage investor not to sell off their investment when they are in profits or not but to hodl for a longer period of time in other to have the compounded value of their investment over a period of time of about 5 to 10 years or more.it  Is your choice to know what will work best for you, am waiting to receive any corrections if there is any in my expression.

You are right, if a hot news is printed, there can be many comments for and against it. In this way, the essence of this topic can be extracted, which is very helpful for investors, especially for beginners. Newbies who are interested in buying Bitcoin can easily invest in Dollar Cost Averaging (DCA) as I find Dollar Cost Averaging to be the safest. For holding you need to have a lot of money which may not be available to everyone, in this case dollar cost averaging(DCA) can be best for you. Many investors waste a lot of time buying dips, in this the time if they can buy bitcoin by dollar cost averaging (DCA) daily. Then dollar cost averaging (DCA) would be more profitable than buying the dips.

Need money and investment money are very different in their use. Necessity money is money that you can use to buy all your needs to be able to live and have fun in the real world.
while investment money is money that is specifically intended for your future. so you don't need to take this money just to shop for daily necessities.

You also need to pay attention to how much your budget is for your needs. For example, if your income is $500/month, and you only need $200 for daily needs and emergency funds, that means you can use $300 for investments.
or how you arrange it already, because everyone's needs are different. However, it is better if the needs are few and the investment is greater.

For me, buying every dip doesn't feel like seizing an opportunity; it feels more like a setback. I respect others' views on Bitcoin's price, but as a short-term trader, it's not my preferred strategy. Instead, I look for specific conditions to buy during dips, especially in bounce play setups. These involve buying low and selling quickly after a price rebound, which suits my trading style better. I steer clear of trades against the trend because they're less likely to succeed.

The DCA method means buying small amounts of bitcoins and holding them for long periods of time. By controlling the average price, buying Bitcoins with the DCA method, it is possible to accumulate Bitcoins regularly for a long period of time. Consider that if I buy $500 worth of bitcoins weekly or monthly, I will be able to earn (500×12=6000 dollars) worth of bitcoins in a year. And because of the ups and downs of the bitcoin price, the bitcoin price may improve further, so the DCA method is the most suitable way to invest in bitcoins. A person will never be able to purchase Bitcoin with the money they have accumulated, because their needs will stand around it. That's why many investors have become self-sufficient by buying bitcoins regularly in the DCA system.

If one invests in Bitcoins with the DCA method, one must have a plan to hold it for a long period of time. Because when investing in DCA method we don't buy a lot of bitcoins at once we buy small amount of bitcoins using this method maybe it is 50 dollars or 100 dollars or 150 dollars. Many may purchase a little more than those who can afford it. And the way we invest is to keep it for a long period of time because we have to make small deposits and make big ones. Maybe that's the way to invest in bitcoins which is why many people invest in the DCA method and hold it for a long time then their investment becomes much larger.

I was mostly attempting to give the example of a guy buying on the dip and then calling that lump sum, and that is the part that mixes the categories because why is there a need to call it lump sum if it is buying the dip?  Lump sum seems to be figuring out what to do with an amount that you have right now, and if you decide to buy the dip with part of it, then so be it, but if you decide to buy right now then why would that not be lump sum.


I doubt that the amount is really very important, but there is a bit of an assumption that Lump sum would be outside of your regular abilities to buy, so if you have a income of $3k per month and expenses of $2k per month, then you have $1k per month of discretionary income, and perhaps you DCA with part or all of that.

I would think that lump sum would need to be at least higher than discretionary income.. but there could be an amount of money that comes in extra from time to time, and there could be employees who sometimes will receive a once or twice a year bonus, and if they know about it, then they might already spend it before they get it.. or if they sometimes are not sure if they are going to get it, then once they get it, then all of that money might end up considered to be a lump sum, since it is kind of extra.. and maybe the bonus is $2k or $3k.. and then at that point there could be considerations about how much to invest into bitcoin and then if so how much to lump sum (buy right away), DCA and allocate towards buying on dips.


You can call it whatever you like, but I am not going to call buying on dip lump sum since in my mind those are different categories, even though I can see how people might convolute them merely because they are choosing to buy extra on the dips that are higher than their regular DCA.. but I still think that fails to recognize and appreciate the concept of the lump sum that buys right now.

I already gave the example in my earlier post of a guy who had suddenly received $6k, and I think that I explained that sufficiently well, but let me mix it up a little bit.

Let's say that the person is absolutely brand new to bitcoin, and he knows that he can invest $100 per week for the next 6 months from his salary (his discretionary income / his cashflow), and so that would be $2,600 that he is already planning to invest into bitcoin.  And so then he has $6k also that he can move from some other investment or maybe it is an extra amount that was in his cash reserves.., so with that $6k and the $2,600, that means that he has a total of $8,600 that he could invest over the next 6 months. He can divide it however he likes, except $2,600 is currently not available because that is going to be flowing to him in the next 6 months at a rate of $100 per week.  So he could lump sum invest anywhere between $0 and $6k, but then if he puts the whole $6k into the investment, then he has no money for buying on dips - except for the $100 per week that he expects to come in for the next 6 months, and that is a choice that he could change if he thinks that it would be good to set a bit aside for possibly buying on dips.. beyond the mere $100 per week that he has.

He could invest $4k right away and then just save $2k for buying on dips.. and instead of having 1 or 2 buys at some various price points, he could instead have 20 buy orders of $100 each all the way down to $40k.. and maybe they are $1,200 apart with the first one being at $63k and the next one at $61.8k and the next one at $60.6k and then next one at $59.4k etc etc etc... or he could have 4 buy orders of $500 each at various points on the way down.. so then he runs the risk that the buy on dip orders will not fill... so there is no guarantee that any of them will fill and that is the trade off that he has to make when he chooses the difference between how much he is going to buy right now with his lump sum amount or how much he is going to allocate for buying on the dips versus DCA.. and maybe he just wants to add to his DCAs and so that is another way of dealing with the extra money that he has available and either of those cases in which he holds back lump sum buying right now, are preparing him for down but they do not prepare him as much for up, and those are trade offs that guys have to consider and decide, since more down might not happen from here... but then if down does happen, does the guy want to have more funds than his DCA amount or is he o.k. with taking his chances and just lump summing all or most of the amount that he has available right at or around current prices. and there is no exact correct answer except that the guy should consider each of the three categories when it comes to funds that he has available to him..

Even with the regular cash coming in, the guy does not have to DCA right away with it, he can hold back some or all of it for buying on dips, or maybe having options to later lump sum the saved up amount if dips may or may not end up coming.


You make my point then.. because maybe you feel good because largely over the last year (and even over the last 16 months) the BTC price has been going up, so maybe you would not have had appreciated the DCA approach if the BTC price had gone down during the period that you have been buying BTC.

I think that you are way too new to DCA in order to consider it a resounding success, even though maybe it is the best that you have available, and so if you plan to continue to buy BTC for a whole cycle that would be interesting to hear.. or if you are not even able to make it through a whole cycle because you are mostly just planning to sell... so yeah. .it is hard to really consider that you really understand and appreciate the power of DCA until maybe you get through a whole BTC cycle.. and yeah, that's my perspective.. and surely you have to consider for yourself if you want to continue with it or if there might be some other kind of an approach that you plan to take over the coming 3-ish years, if you are even able to last that long in terms of your bitcoin journey.

I invested $100 before registering on this forum. $100 is a big amount for me, $100 is more than ৳10000 in local currency of our country. I have learned a lot since I registered in this forum. I didn't know what the DCA method was before. I came to know about DCA method from this forum and started investing in DCA method. The amount of bitcoins I have accumulated now, I would not have been able to invest together. But after investing in DCA method I became successful. My plan is to continue investing in the DCA approach for the long term.

Investment is not something you should be forced into. Investment should be done out of your own will to expand your portfolio. It is a wrong idea to allow someone or you forcing someone into investing, particularly bitcoin investment.  Am talking this because I read from your post where you said if someone is forced to invest. Bitcoin investment should be done willingly by the investor. Anyone who is forcing into investing possibly might have other motives behind it and it this point you will become vulnerable as you will be lacking the basic knowledge. And some people will go as far as setting up a wallet for you and thereby getting access of the wallet phrase which is very wrong. Please don't allow yourself to be forced into doing any form of investments, bitcoin included.

I'm quite new here and I'm still doing some reading through, so I think from what you have just explained a lump sum is not every big money we throw into bitcoin, like in the case you used where the guy had a new amount of 6k and if he had decided to invest all right away that would have been a lump sum cause he made his purchase once and with a huge amount and if he maybe dividend it into three parts equal or not and invested them on intervals that would be a DCA buying Which I had understood from your recent comments on the board.

Sir my question is if a person can make lump sum with a small amount, like I've read about how we can mix our strategies to have a maximum effect on our accumulation, like when we set aside some amount to buy on dips and this money is not up to 1k or maybe equal with the allocation you normally give to DCA , would I still call it a lump sum buying.

It is important to highlight again that once an emergency fund is established, it is likely just going to sit there and it is not going to be a burden, but initially establishing the emergency fund might take some time and it might feel like a burden.  Of course, the reserves might bounce up and down a lot more, but whatever the reserves are used for that is going to be within the guys discretion regarding how much cash to keep available in reserves, whether the reserves are designated for buying on dips or for other purposes, and surely  if some of the reserves are used for buying on dips then they might need to be reestablished.. and again there can be quite a bit of variance in regards to how the reserves are treated.. .. but still it seems to me that there could be choices to maintain an emergency fund at a bare minimum of 3 months.. and maybe an extra month in there.. so 3-4 months, but then if there become situations in which someone believes that his income is not secure or his health is not secure or that there might be some reasons to increase the emergency fund because some things in his family and/or business are complicated, then he is going to be way better off to identify those needs earlier rather than later.. which could result in greater emergency funds, greater reserves and even keeping a greater float too... and if the BTC investment grows and grows, there could be some temptations to dip into it and so no one can really say how to manage those funds, and guys sometimes end up making the wrong choices... and not realizing until much later that he would have had been way better off to not take as many chances and to maintain various cash cushions, even if it is seeming like a lot of that cash cushion value is not working and is losing value by sitting around... but it still might be the better thing to do in terms of making sure that the various kinds of cash cushions are sufficient and some of them are not being touched.. especially the BTC investment and the emergency fund..


I think that people get the term lump sum mixed up, since lump summing does not need to happen on the dip, and surely if you are buying on the dip whether you choose to do a large amount or a small amount, I still would not consider that to be lump sum investing.

I think that the more pure way to think about lump sum investing is that you have some money and you have to choose right now if you are going to buy BTC with it or are you going to set it up as a DCA or buying on dips.

Of course, you can do all three, but lump sum investing is more likely going to be a phenomena that applies when someone might have some extra money that comes to him or that maybe he is transferring over from some other investment(s) that he has.

So we could think about it in terms of a person being brand new to bitcoin and then he has an amount of dollars that is he wanting to get started investing into bitcoin, or we could think about a person who has been in bitcoin for a year or two, and then all of a sudden he has a lump sum amount that comes available to him.... Let's say that a guy had been DCA buying bitcoin at $50 per week for the last 2 years, so he has invested right around $5,200 into bitcoin so far and so he has accumulated right around 0.2 BTC, and yeah the last couple years has been pretty good so his BTC is worth right around 2.5x the amount of his investment, and his budget allows him to either continue with $50 per week or maybe he can even work towards increasing his DCA amount, and then all of a sudden, he realizes that surprisingly, he has inherited $6k, and so all of a sudden he has more money that he can invest into bitcoin, and he is faced with a dilemma regarding if he should just buy $6k worth of bitcoin right away (which would be a lump sum investment), or he could divide the amount into 3 parts.. and put 1/3 into each of the three categories of lump sum, DCA and buying on dips. . and he does not need to divide them up equally, and he might choose to put $4k into buying right away, and have the other $2k for buying on dips and to just continue to DCA with his regular salary at $50 per week or maybe he is coming to a pint to be able to increase  his DCA amount based on improvements in his overall financial situation.   

The way he divides the buying on dips is not necessarily lump sum investing, so guys here like to mix categories and say that lump sum investing is going on because a large amount might be invested on the dip, and I consider that to be sloppy thinking that fails to recognize and appreciate the difference in the categories.. even though some times the categories can seem like they overlap, but they likely can still be considered in their separate conceptual frameworks in order to make decisions based on the different kinds of trade-offs that might exist based on how a guy might choose to invest any sum of money that he has coming in.


More importantly, DCA helps a guy to manage his budget and to manage his entrance into BTC.  Of course, there might be some concerns about average costs per BTC, yet most likely if a guy is 10 years or more into his investment, his is mostly going to be concerned about how many BTC he has and how much they are worth rather than what his average cost per BTC might happen to be.  Sure of course, he wants to be in profits and he even wants to have some of his BTC with multiples of compounding value, yet if he had been buying $100 per week of bitcoin over the next 10 years, he is most likely going to be concerned about whether he had managed his budget well through all of those years and was still able to live his life while he was building up his BTC investment, and maybe at some point he is going to see that he has enough BTC or that he can change some of the ways that he accumulates BTC. 

Yeah.. DCA works for rich people, poor people and average people, yet rich and average might be able to establish their position faster than the poor man, and so the poor many might not have a choice but to follow DCA method for 15-20 years or more before he starts to feel that his investment is building up to a point in which he might be able to employ other kinds of strategies.

Even a rich man may choose DCA to make his first entrance into an investment like BTC, and so let's say that the guy has a $2 million investment portfolio, and so he is considering coming into bitcoin fairly aggressively and perhaps getting a 10% to 25% position in bitcoin (which would be a $200k to $500k allocation to bitcoin), yet he remains a bit nervous about trying to sell other assets in order to establish his BTC position up to his target levels, so he is trying to figure out ways to get into BTC without creating tax consequences for himself, and so even if he might have various lump sum payments in the process of getting started, he also might consider that it might take him 1-2 years to actually establish his 10% to 25% position.. which may well be best established by DCAing rather than overly lump summing, but if he is worried that the BTC price might go up fast in the short term, then he may well try to front load his investment to get it into play in a shorter period of time, but he still might have trouble doing it in a way that is anything other than a kind of DCA approach that involves large amounts.. such as $10k per week... or some other amount that he might consider to be manageable - depending upon from where he is drawing his revenues... If he already has some cash available that is around $100k, then that might only last for 10 weeks with a $10k per week plan, so even the rich guy might have some dilemmas, and DCA might fit into the picture.

Some folks like to suggest that Michael Saylor (MSTR) is buying on dips and/or lump summing, but that is ridiculous since they are just getting distracted by the amounts that Saylor is investing into BTC.  Largely Saylor has been buying BTC almost every quarter since August 2020, and so Saylor has been employing a form of DCA especially since he seems to buy BTC when he has the money and not so much in regards to the price, so he is not really lump sum investing and/or buying on dips, and surely some quarters, he is able to secure various kinds of financing so he gets more money to buy BTC, but he still tends to buy BTC as soon as he gets the newly authorized money rather than diddly daddlying around and waiting.. so Saylor on behalf of MSTR has largely been DCAing his investment into BTC over the past 3.5 years.


Nothing wrong with buying BTC at any price, especially if you do not have any BTC or you don't have enough, and also it helps if you have a 4-10 year or more investment time horizon and you are continuing to buy.

if you are merely trying to make a quick turn around, then you might get into trouble.. so part of the more important issue might be concerning how long the buyer is planning to stay into bitcoin rather than if his entrance point might have been higher than he could have had gotten.. especially since if someone is brand new to bitcoin, then the only way that they can prepare for up is by having some bitcoin, and if they do not have any then they are not prepared for up.

If you are suggesting to ONLY prepare for down by waiting, then it could be that the down possibilities are no longer available.. Do you know from here?  Is this enough of a dip to buy or should the newbie to bitcoin or the low coiner wait for more dip?


Yeah but when did you start?  You have ONLY been registered on the forum for less than a year.

I've read some other comments in the thread and what your saying seems quite contradictory, I don't think the dip is the only time we should accumulate bitcoin since we are using the DCA method that involves buying at intervals and helps reduce the impact of market volatility on our portfolio, besides those who buy only at dips would miss out on all other times to buy.

I think it's far better to buy eventide with DCA cause trying to time the market is the same as trading cause you might never buy If you keep on waiting for the dip especially as a new investors that needs to take more action than wait.

I think the whole confusion here is originating from a lack of understanding of how the DCA works or why its preferd to be used. The DCA method involves splitting your capital into equal parts and investing them on intervals, now for those that are confused why we used this strategy, among many other reasons most persons prefer DCA strategy cause it reduces the impact of market volatility on your portfolio, when investing in an asset as volatile as bitcoin such a strategy would stand out amongst many other good strategy cause its best fit the accumulation of Bitcoin.

The amount that can be allocated to the DCA is not fixed to any amount and both rich and poor can use it based on their disposable income and the ability of their income, a rich guy with a disposable weekly income of 1000$ can chose to invest 25% of this to bitcoin and a poor guy with 100$ can chose to invest 10% to bitcoin and both are practicing DCA method.

I think we shouldn't misunderstand Jay's substainable withdrawal threshold, it's not for ealry investors just starting out their investment journey and having a sell plan so ealry in your investment journey with an aim of trying to buy back is no different from trading, what if the price you sell and busy expecting a dip to happen never comes or takes too long to happen. The idea here is to keep to accumulating bitcoin for more than 10 years for someone who is well at his youth and maybe up to 4 years for someone starting out late in his investment before we can start thinking about selling and applying Jay's strategy to know how much is good to withdraw that would sustain your bitcoin portfolio.

You are absolutely right that DCA method of Bitcoin investing is not only for low income people but everyone can invest in this method according to their convenience. Dollar Cost Averaging is one of the most convenient ways to invest because using this method you can buy Bitcoins with any amount of money you have. Moreover, you don't have to depend on the rise or fall to invest in this method, you can buy at any time. DCA method is an investment method. The sole purpose of adopting DCA in Bitcoin investing is to ensure that our investments continue to grow at the same rate as possible with this method regardless of income and expenses.

I do not agree with you that the DCA method is for investors who have financial problems. The DCA method can be used by anyone irrespective of the financial level and I think it is wrong to refer to the DCA method as something meant for the poor. Anyone in financial crisis cannot even make proper investment in bitcoin because his finances are not enough and he will not even be able to setup emergency funds that is required to protect the investment from being liquidated when it is not expected due to emergencies. Anyone going through financial crisis ought to first look for other means of solving the financial problems before considering investing bitcoin.

This is totally wrong and makes me wonder if you are talking about the DCA method or something else. There is no limit to the amount that can be used for DCA. Any income class can use the DCA method as it is convenient for both huge buys and small buys. If I have $10k set aside for investment in bitcoin and I noticed that buying at once may not give me the results I want, I can decide to make the investment in different segments and times through the DCA method. Assuming bitcoin is in a range and I do not know where the breakout will happen, the DCA method can be used to buy such that if the price drops, I buy more at lower prices and if it rises those I bought at the range will compensate for those I will be buying at higher prices. Many big investors uses this pattern to make best use of the buying process.

Of course, investment planning for old age must be thought about from an early age, where if you are 40 years old, of course you can already think about making investment plans for your old age. Of course, it is true that when we reach old age, of course we no longer have the strength to work instantly or do heavy work like we did at a young age, so we need to look for other alternatives that can bring in income without having to work with our energy. One side of Bitcoin investment is certainly quite good for our old age where we can invest $20 regularly every week so that in the next 20 years we can reap the results from the investments we make.

On the one hand, I am not too interested in diversifying in a long-term investment journey because I think assets other than Bitcoin are assets that have quite a big risk of losing our money, such as Terra Luna and FTX. However, I am also not against you because it is your money and you are the one who determines the decision to diversify or not, but so far I still stand by my stance on accumulating bitcoin and forgetting about shitcoins.

Yeah that's very clarifying @JayJuanGee because is quite surprising with the kind of mindset or understanding some persons could have about Bitcoin by assuming that since the price has gone this far it will have some correction, and this assumption has affected so many new investors mindset that instead starting to accumulate Bitcoin they are still waiting to see if the Bitcoin will have some correction before they could start investing. However what they failed to understand is that nobody knows what will be the next movement of Bitcoin so instead of people to wait and see the outcome they could actually utilize the opportunity now and start accumulating because looking at the bright side of it even if the price drops or increase it will not affect there investment because is for a long term holding and considering the potential of Bitcoin they will always be proud to have invested on Bitcoin in the future.

So far as life is concerned everyone needs to prepare their future on time and the best way is to learn a good investment practices that will stand as a relief at a time when we won't have the strength to work much again because that is what will smoothen our financial position in the near future and we should do away with the fear of failure and be very positive as well apply the best investment strategy that will enable us to become successful investors. Investments are attached with risks but the risks are minimal more especially when we invest in Bitcoin because you don't need to be disturbed about your investment as all you need do is just to keep your investment goals alive by accumulating more at every time there is a dip in the price of Bitcoin.

Having Bitcoin as a means of retirement is not that bad but just like your friend talked of diversification, it should not only be focused on Bitcoin investment alone as he can also venture into other forms of investment that will second his Bitcoin investment because despite that Bitcoin investment look somehow secured in the future but it is necessary to also get involved in other aspects of investment. My reason is that with the way Bitcoin is gaining more recognition and adoption, some may misinterpret it to a get rich quick project, not that it is not but it takes longer time which some persons may not really be able to endure and at the end may decide to withdraw their assets because in this modern or digitized world now, almost everyone wants something that they would start experiencing the impact at a very tender stage.

There are various investment at there, but bitcoin investment as made it More easy for anyone who's interested in investing to start their investment (in bitcoin) without going through anyone before investing. All one really need just some good sources (for capital)  and  a  cex account (for purchasing) and noncustodial wallet for holding. And some proper knowledge on how to  accumulate more Bitcoin , and some good plannings on how to manage their investment while holding.

Edited:
you're right DCA do help those who are not financially stable to accumulate more Bitcoin for themselves as time goes. But the thing is that DCA is not for those set of people alone , even those that are financially stable may also decide to use DCA method to accumulate bitcoin. For instant some one who's financially stable can purchase a large quantities of bitcoin for himself using lump-summing and all that. Then such individual may decide to use DCA to accumulate more in order to have the advantage to buy more Bitcoin at different price interval and same time having more quantity for himself. That why as an investor one need to be flexible in order to gain more profit as bitcoin increase in price as time goes.