Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 277. (Read 123834 times)

I don't think short term investments are true investors. they can still be considered traders. because they still want to profit from significant price movements in a short time.
different from real investors who already understand that investment has a longer term. and will continue to keep its assets forever. and the profit is from keeping the asset, not from selling coins.

My point exactly.  Most short term investors have a fixed investment duration, and then they sell off their coins, which as you've stated isn't the best. And as it takes several years to start making PROFITS, they mostly do not take heed to that, and their investment duration falls below the 'several' years that they need to get into profits. Bitcoin being as unpredictable as it is, can drop or whatever other reason, they find themselves incurring significant losses.

you're right, though their parents may have serve as an emergency funds, doesn't mean they would also be the one that would be helping them with the funds they are going to use in investing, (if one plan to invest in bitcoin). Inorder for one to keep accumulating bitcoin with any of the strategy that are suitable for them , while schooling he or she must have a side hustle that won't affect their studies that much but at same time serve as good sources for them to purchase some quantities of bitcoin. Though the money coming out from the sources may be small but it would still help in accumulating some bitcoin when their parents serve as an emergency funds, that may minimise their expenses.
thanks for the clarity , am kinda of aware of something like this , that the most you could lose in bitcoin Is 100%, but the thing is that if one was able to be patient enough he or she may endup bouncing back. While for those that use leverages to hold with the mindset of wanting more profits ( most time due to greed) would endup losing huge percentage, and either they sell In loss due to cutting losses or they endup getting themselves liquidated.

You are right because lately I have noticed so many persons with different assumptions of the possibility of Bitcoin price making some correctional moves, so with that information most people feel that is something that would happen and instead of them to keep buying they are still waiting for the correction to happen so that they would have an opportunity to take advantage without knowing that those information are based on assumption and there is a possibility it may likely not happen, so perhaps @JAY I think your advice on this situation is actually the best way because with the current price movement of Bitcoin nothing is for sure now so one of the preferable way is to take a position size on Bitcoin so that if the price movement keep increasing they will never be left out because there position will still be running for them. However one of things I realized about investment is that an investor shouldn't always rely on assumptions of people or even if they should give a listening ear but there should be a back up plan that if should incase it doesn't work the way they had assumed, then there investment back of plan will cover for it.

Actually, I am not concerned about whether his sister-in-law adopts bitcoin or not, but I would be concerned about either getting involved in supporting her ideas to gamble with bitcoin or being roped into her way of framing the reasons for investing in bitcoin. So, in that regard, I think that it is best to stick to the real reasons to invest in bitcoin and to describe the preferred practice techniques for long term investing, and in the end the sister-in-law can do whatever she likes.  She can follow the long term, or she can follow her original ideas and/or she can follow some modified variation that is a hybrid combination of the preferred long-term approach  and the decision will be hers to make, and it might work out for her and it might not.  I think that it is not a good idea to compromise with folks and then potentially get sucked into their variation of a plan that you outlined, and also you may or may not know their situation, but you can still outline what you believe to be the better approach based on whatever information that you believe that you know, whether they agree to follow your recommended approach or not.. and even if they agree to follow your recommended approach, it is also good to make sure that they understand that they are completely responsible for their own investment choices, whether to invest or not and how to invest if they do choose to do it.



 I am not sure if I agree with that way of framing the matter.  I think that we can say that bitcoin is an assymetric bet to the upside, so if you do not leverage or otherwise gamble with your money, then the most that you could lose is 100%.  On the other hand, there are decent odds to be able to perform at least as well as any other investment option, including possibilities to outperform other assets. There is no guarantees which way bitcoin will perform, but it seems that with the passage of time, the strength of its investment thesis is getting stronger rather than weaker... .

while at the same time past performance is not a guarantee of future performance or even faction of future performance similar to the past, so if someone in the past was able to get 1,000x or 100x in the past that does not even mean that you are guaranteed to get 3x in the future, even though bitcoin continues to appear to be a strong investment, especially investing over the long term helps with the lesser guarantees that come from up and down short term volatility and the 200-WMA has historically moved up so that show the trend is up, but the 200-WMA remains a lagging indicator...even though it has always been trending up.. at least so far.


I agree with this part.. Ultimately, anything that she does is her responsibility, whether she follows your guidelines or not, yet I am not going to agree that it is a good idea to get involved with playing around with the creation and following of short-term plans, even though there should not be any problem to listen to her plan and then present your plan and see how she reacts and if she has any questions and at the same time figuring out how much detail to give her based on how interested that she is.. because if all that she wants to do is put $1k down and then just sit on it until it reaches a certain percentage of profitability and then to get out.. that's her choice. 

It might work, but it is not really meaningful and it seems to be something different from what a long term investor would do, but it still might end up working for her.. even if it might not be as advantageous as figuring out a longer term plan and then employing it.. but many people have short attention spans, and that is part of the reason why they like to gamble and not to commit to something long term, like bitcoin... especially since long term might cause them to have to think about it in a more detailed way, and they don't want to think and they don't really even want to take responsibility for thinking and that might be part of the reason why the sister-in-law was asking @danadc what to do.


Usually someone with an irregular income would need to keep more emergency funds, reserve and float - especially if they want to keep buying bitcoin during periods in which their income is low or non-existent, and yeah, they also might have thresholds  that if their income is not greater than a certain amount then they are not going to buy bitcoin at all.. so it would not be automatic that they would not be able to buy bitcoin, but they might have to hold money aside and try to tailor their bitcoin buys based on their cashflow situation and sometimes there could be known periods of low income in advance and even known periods that the income will go up in the future, so they can kind of plan around that, but still have some financial cushion to account for the uncertainties that might come from having such cashflow irregularities.


Even if they have a lot of expenses paid by parents, they still might need to try to anticipate their cashflows, because even if the parent's might also give them money, they may well have limits in how they are going to be able to get, and even if their parents serve as an emergency fund, there may be limitations with that, too.  so it is still likely a good idea to consider the various categories, even if the source of income might not be from regular work (salary).


I like the idea of weekly buys, but yeah, if the amounts are so small then there could be some value to making the time over a longer period of monthly and/or quarterly.. but I would still try to encourage the idea of more frequency, if and when possible, even though I agree there could be circumstances in which longer periods might be justifiable.   

Sorry I misinterpreted the understanding in the previous post, but I mean if someone doesn't have a permanent job and doesn't have a regular salary every month of course they will find it difficult to manage their cash flow in investing in Bitcoin. Of course, if they don't get a regular or regular salary every month, their investment plans could stop halfway and that's the point I wanted to convey in the previous post.

Well, that is of course a big consideration that they have to try as best as possible. If they really want to invest, they must first look for work to make their investment in Bitcoin run smoothly. However, if they are 18+ or over or are still in high school, of course their living expenses are still paid for by their parents, so this will not affect their investment if they invest in bitcoin while they are still in education.

Apart from that, whether someone doesn't have a permanent job, of course they are also very suitable to apply the DCA method in their investment strategy in Bitcoin. Yes, they can buy per quarter if they can't afford it regularly every month.

lol yeah most people back then would never had believed bitcoin would undergo such growth in price, and at that bitcoin was gradually gaining ground. And also gaining more adoption as time goes, the funny thing is that bitcoin still as the potential to hit 7 digit someday .

Sir JJG is actually right, leading your sister in-law to engage with short-term investments expecially this time around bitcoin as increase in price, is like she gambling with her funds, and if market endup not going her way she might lose interest in investing in this space (because first trials do matters) expecially to those that are not use to this space. So is better for you to try and show her the beauty of long-term investment. Telling her the risk and also the benefits attached to it , because if she decided to hold for long-term the chances of her selling in loss Is pretty low , but  the chances of she yielding good profit still high, Even though there are no guarantees in bitcoin. And she can also decide to back things up with some DCA, Without being much aggressive. But still everything still base on her choices.

There are many who do this, and I am one of them, especially now that we are in an uptrend, and that depends on the altcoins that we also hold. Personally, the other coins I hold are in an uptrend, and I am waiting for them to downtrend in the short term, and then I will take action to buy coins and then hold them again.

This is what I always do, to be honest, and of course it is also done by those who have extensive knowledge of trading as holders and even others who are not that deep in trading because they are just learning it too.

In the investment and personal finance world, the term "passive" has a specific meaning that revolves around getting and/or receiving income without working - in other words an investment can earn a passive income because either it bears interest or it grows in value faster than the rate that value is withdrawn from it. 

It seems wrong and/or misleading to use the term "passive" as a way of describing how we are investing into something like bitcoin..  Sure there can be ways that we set up automated buys  or we could follow a system in which we invest every week no matter what from our discretionary/disposable income, yet I still would not describe that as passive, even if there might be some automation involved in it. 

Also, we could use income that comes from a passive source in order to invest into another asset such as investing into bitcoin from the proceeds of your property rent (presuming that you don't have to do any work for that property rent income)...

Sure, I might be quibbling about semantics, yet it seems to be frequent that guys are misusing the term "passive," and it can become quite confusing to either try to figure out what they are saying or what they mean, especially if they are most likely talking about income that they are receiving from working and maybe it does not even really matter so much from where they are getting their income because in the end, the amount of income that is coming in needs to be greater than the expenses in order to be able to invest with what is remaining and the remaining portion is described as disposable/discretionary income and so if they have $600 per month in disposable/discretionary income, they could be aggressive and invest at or near 100% of that into bitcoin or they could be more whimpy and invest only 10% or 20% of that into bitcoin.. so maybe you are suggesting a more whimpy approach is the same as passive, and I think that it is misleading to use the word passive when you might be talking about being less aggressive in the BTC accumulation approach.


Even though there are no guarantees in bitcoin, it seems quite likely that people who are thinking that BTC is at a current top and vulnerable to crashing, and so therefore they hesitate to buy BTC, and if they continue to hesitate to buy based on that kind of thinking which also relates to their thoughts of "being too late," then in 3-4 years if they still had not been buying BTC, they are likely going to see that bitcoin had landed in a place in which 5 digit bitcoin was not even available anymore and so those who had gotten in at current prices are looking like geniuses. 

Again, surely not guaranteed, yet it is way better to get some kind of position size into bitcoin rather than presuming from the mere fact that we are hitting ATHs that there needs to be any kind of correction from here or even that BTC prices need to return to these price levels once (or if) they decide to go up... and even this year, we well could be experiencing a BTC price range that is bouncing around $120k to $180k (with $60k price moves to the upside and downside over a few months).. .again, no guarantees of these kinds of scenarios, yet the ONLY way to benefit from those kinds of possibilities is to buy some bitcoin and/or buy exposure to bitcoin (if for some reason you are not ready, willing and/or able to buy bitcoin directly, which would be the preferred way to hold your cornz).


I think that you are suggesting that your sister-in-law gamble, and I think it is better to stick to long term investing of 4-10 years or longer, and if she wants to invest for shorter periods, then that is her choice, I would not get involved in her potential decisions to fuck around with shorter plays and/or gambling.  Yeah, she is free to make those kinds of choices, but there is no winning in getting involved in those kind of short-term plays that are less than 2 years, and it surely is discretionary regarding how much to put in, how to put it in and when to cash out.. and we are not talking about trading/gambling with your bitcoin in this thread, so fuck trading and gambling.. especially with bitcoin.

Now in regards to long term investing and a potential initial investment amount of $1k, then there could be some way of figuring out how to divide that in terms of Lump sum investing, DCA and buying on dip. So in that regard, it would be good to know what the discretionary income is for that person for the next 6 months and how much of that discretionary income are they willing to put into bitcoin.  Once you have the full number for the next 6 months, then you can figure out each of the three categories and also figure out the extent to which there is a preference to attempt to mostly front load the investment.

Let's say that the person has $1k right now and $200 per month over the next 6 months (so $1,200 coming in) and so that would be a total of $2,200 over 6 months... and yeah maybe she does not want to invest that much into bitcoin, yet if she is willing to put $1k into some investment right now, she must have some amount from her salary that she is willing to put into any investment on a regular basis, even if there might be a desire to skew the investment towards frontloading (buying now rather than deferring). 

The answers are not always straight forward, but those seem to be the kinds of choices, and if the investment is presumed to be 4-10 years or longer there might be some tentative thoughts about what to do after 6 months or just to keep in mind a tentative plan for 6 months and then perhaps to revisit the matter when the 6 months are about to run out in terms of if any adjustments need to be made in terms of continuing to put value into bitcoin, and if value is continued to be put in then any new value should also have a 4-10 year or longer investment timeline from the time that it is put in (rather than using the initial investment time).


Even though you are likely technically correct about the "profits," but you sound more like a trader and a person with a short term mindset if you are so maniacally focused on the "one thing" that you believe to be important.  Long term investors might still want to be profitable in the long term but they may also not be focused on whether they are short term profitable or not and/or getting distracted by those kinds of considerations. 

If anyone takes a bet on bitcoin in the long term they may well commit to it and hoping it to be profitable by the time they get to their 4-10 year or longer timeline in which they might change their strategies... while at the same time, they might be using their investment as a kind of hedge, in which any particular investment within their investment portfolio might not be profitable, but they cannot really know which parts of their investment might be profitable or not, but they are not necessarily focused on each of them being profitable at any given time, even thought they want their overall portfolio to be profitable and that the gains outweigh the losses including that they had chosen a good combination of products in their investment portfolio (I am not referring to putting shitcoins in your investment portfolio unless maybe you limit them to very small allocations, such as less than 10% (hopefully much less than) the size of your bitcoin allocation).


You make choices and bitcoin is risky, but it hedges against dollar-reliant investments, and so bitcoin is a good thing to have in your investment portfolio (as a kind of insurance) even if it might not end up working out in the long run.  And, so some of the more important questions would be how much to allocate into each kind of asset, and if you happen to be a beginner investor, you likely ONLY would end up having bitcoin and cash, and maybe after investing several years, then you might decide to start to diversify out to other assets (again not referring to shitcoins, though diversification generally means other kinds of asset classes, such as stocks, property, commodities, bonds and cash/cash equivalents). 


How many coins you have accumulated can make a lot of differences in terms of your investment choices, so lowcoiner are not in the same category as those who have accumulated a lot, and I would not even suggest that a low coiner is a good descriptor since low coiners might be some folks who are building their stash with aggressiveness but they still don't have enough coins, versus another kind of low coiner who is not aggressively even trying to accumulate coins....  So when I refer to low coiners, I tend to use the term derogatorily to refer to someone who is not even trying to accumulate coins.   On the other hand, I would not consider a person who is still in the earlier stages of his BTC accumulation to be a low coiner, even though he perceives himself to not have enough coins.


This part is true... it can take several years to start to get into profits, yet even the mere fact that you are in profits would not even necessarily start to mean that you need to sell any coins.  Right now, almost everyone is in profits as long as they had been buying and holding and not selling or using leverage, yet even though they are in profits, they may well be really far from their BTC accumulation goal, which may well mean that they are going to need to continue to buy for the next 4 years or even longer and then maybe at some point they well start to consider if they are starting to have enough BTC yet or not... If someone has ONLY been in bitcoin for a year, and they are accumulating around 10% of their income into bitcoin, they still might consider that they want to accumulate for around 10 years before they start to think about what to do next, yet in the meantime, they can also consider if they might want to increase their accumulation pace up to a higher level.. and so it could be difficult to figure out a way to either increase income and/or cut expenses in order to be able to stack more bitcoin harder in the beginning rather than spreading out their investment over 10 years or longer, yet at the same time, there is ONLY so much any individual is able to do in terms of increasing income and/or cutting expenses.


Bitcoin broke its ATH right around 4 days ago, and then it broke it again, so you have repeated the same factually inaccurate bullshit on a couple of occasions.  You might want to refer to Bitstamp when trying to figure out whether ATH has been breached or not and/or when.

Yes when we talk about the situation of bitcoin in the past few years then it is true that many people are hesitant to buy because they think that the price is already quite high and they are worried about a dump that will make them experience a loss, but actually we don't have to talk about something that happened in the past because actually such worries and anxieties will continue to occur as long as bitcoin still exists, we can see that now bitcoin is in the area of all-time highs and isn't it a fact that there will be some investors who feel hesitant to buy when the situation is like this? of course.

In fact bitcoin can break all the doubts that exist in the minds of most of us, which means it is never too late in terms of accumulation, you can allocate your money at any time because bitcoin will continue to rise over time, but remember in addition you must really have a proper understanding of investment, make sure that you understand that however investment can never escape the name of the possibility of loss, which means that you are more advised to put an amount that is not for other needs in your life, this is useful for minimizing the occurrence of emotions and disturbances in your mental and psychological or to minimize "worries" when bitcoin is experiencing a correction. On the other hand, yes as you said that doubts will only end in regret, which means that if we continue to prioritize doubts I make sure that you will never be able to achieve profits, meaning that accumulation requires intention, determination, sincerity and courage because if you want to get profits then obviously you have to dare to take risks but make sure not to exceed your limits, as I said above, namely allocating money that will not be disturbed for other things, and believe your accumulation plan will be able to reach a "tantalizing" point in the future.

mehn! It can't be less fulfilling seeing how the market has been very impressive and consistently proven all critics wrong every step of the way.

I had a friend who never saw it wise to invest during the bearish season but rather chooses to accumulate bunch of altcoin in his portfolio that have dropped a lot. We got talking this morning and you could literally see regrets in his eyes when I showed him how within some couple of months BTC has risen from aroumd $39k it was at the time he invested into those  altcoin to this current ATH.

It's now obvious that at any point you decide to start accumulating , if you're patient enough, you will still be in profit. The journey continues above $80k. Believe.

I can't agree with your statement because long-term investment in Bitcoin is not the only way to get profit. A lot of profit can be earned even by short term investment. Many times it is seen that many people invest in Bitcoin for a short period of time and earn a lot of profit. If you have a large amount of bitcoins you will be able to earn a lot of profit from bitcoins even with short term investments. Let me show you an example how to earn profit by investing large amount of Bitcoin in short term.

We looked at the crypto currency market in September 2023 when the price of Bitcoin was around $25,000 and if you bought 1 Bitcoin it would be twice (2x) what it is today. This clearly shows that this is not a long-term investment but an example of a short-term investment. If you were to invest in the DCA method at the same price at the same time let's say you would have invested $100 per week or month. Then the amount of your invested bitcoins would be 6 x 100 dollars in 6 months i.e. 600 dollars.

So if you have more amount of money then invest more amount of bitcoins and you will be able to earn more profit even if it is a short term investment.
[/quote]
But still, short term investors will mostly be subjected victims to fluctuation in price, although profits are possible, it still is  not compared to long-term holders, like those who have been holding for the past 15 years. Short term investors profits cannot be compared to long term holders as the margin is conspicuously defined.
Over a short period of time, Bitcoin can fall really low as we saw in the last bull run, but then, over a long time frame it really appreciates.
The risks for short term investors is too great compared to the long term.
[/quote]
This thread is a place to learn, if you look very well you will see that this thread has been existing for many years. You will also noticed that we have Legendary/Hero members who has been in the bitcoin investment long before you and I started our bitcoin journey. We  have been following their teaching and gradually we have been seeing growth by following their guidelines. You as a newbie should follow suit when they are telling you things that will help your life, you should stop arguing and making unnecessary analysis which are not relevant. Bitcoin investment profitability is for long term and not for short term. Judging by your analysis, can you compare the profit of those who invested in bitcoin 10 years ago and still holding with those you said bought in September 2023? As a newbie if you want to grow, listen more than you teach because it will profit you more that way.

Talking about short term investment in some kind of way might actually make this thread some worth contradictory, I really think we should stay in track,  I don't think talking about it is going to add any meaning to this thread, there are better board to actually discuss that,

Bitcoin broke its previous ATH. I haven't been able to check the market today due to a lot of busyness, so when I check the market now, I see that Bitcoin broke its previous ATH almost 19 hours ago, That price of Bitcoin is $69,427. But this ATH did not increase much from the previous ATH. But still I am very happy and glad that Bitcoin broke its previous ATH. I am a big believer in Bitcoin and it's a lot of faith that the price of Bitcoin will definitely rise above 100k and it will happen very soon.

Well said. At a larger scale, there is no reason to choose the short term investment over the long term, given that as investors, we all have one thing we pursue. Profit. And if your investment plan isn't giving you the best of that, as a business person, I do not think there's any reason to venture in that direction.

If as investors, we seek the best out of Bitcoin, I'm certain in lies in long term investment as it is advisable to both low coiners and those who have gathered alot.
People who do not have money to purchase many coins should heed to this, as short term investment may even lead to loss.

My sister-in-law called me today to ask me that she has 1000usd to invest, and she asked me what I recommended, I told her, that she buy bitcoin, because even though it is close to its last maximum, she can still buy, but that she has two scenarios, if it goes down When it comes to price, you should not despair, but wait until it goes up, do not take out an investment, or lose patience, but you have to have the conviction that the price will go up, the other is that if you buy and it goes up, then she evaluates what she can withdraw, but which will recommend that less than $150k do not withdraw profits, it may not be in the Dip, but it is a good time to make an investment.

You should not wait for bitcoin to rise from the ASTH to buy what if you were going to do it, you should do it now, before the opportunity passes, that is something you have to understand, what happens is that you are a very good person. He knows a lot about how this is handled, but I said that for 2024-2025 he can wait, if he is not able to wait that time then he should not invest it there but in something else.

Many doesn't expect that to happen since $20,000 big at that time and many doubt that it will be so hard for bitcoin to pump on that amount or more bigger than these since many are afraid for the possible dump to happen.

But for so many times it proves us that if we keep doubting there's nothing to gain and we regret our decision for not buying while bitcoin is quiet affordable. For sure we think about going to past where everything is cheap that's why people should not make the same mistake again since there's still plenty of time for them to accumulate and they should not about they came late since on bitcoin there's nothing like that exist since price of bitcoin continuous to grow.

I would absolutely be one of those people who never have believed that Bitcoin would surge to $20,000 OR even five digits. Hahaha. But it was only during that time, that it started to become obvious that six digits is a possibility for the next cycles. Although there were many people that remained very doubtful.


That illustrated that large DIPs are for buying.

I always wonder why most people always prefer short term investment, I know that everyone is entitled or decision to choose what they feel is better for them but I will always advise that short term is not the best investment pattern for Bitcoin because it will likely deprived you the chances of getting what you are supposed to have in the future if you hold for a long term because one of the factors that lead to investment failure is greed because the mindset of most people is based on the possible profits they could get from there investment that's why they always sees short term as the best investment strategy for them without knowing that they could get into trouble on the process if they sell there Bitcoin and the price did not give them another chance to buy again because this has been what most investors has witnessed but thanks to @JAY for educating us on ways of investment so I believe that so many persons should be able to understand and utilize the investment discussions that has been done here.

exactly, Short-term investment can be profitable but the risk attached to it is too much compare to that of long-term investment, due to price fluctuations. And other thing about short-term investments is that one can easily it turn it to gambling, like in a scenario whereby there's a hype in market, due to such hype market experience a surge in prices and due to FOMO one may come up with the thought of diving in all at once inorder to be catch in th wave ( during the increase of prices in market) with the thought of making some profit as the market  increase, which would make one to be restless while he or she keep checking Market charts . But at the end market didn't went their way they would endup selling in loss because their aim was to get short-term profit and they won't want their funds to get stock. While those who are holding won't be bothered with such because their mind as already being set for long-term investment, though it may take alot of time depending on one target but at the end you would Found that it all worth it .