Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 304. (Read 137310 times)

They are a big company that has unlimited money. They have become a role model for many people because of their attitude towards investing in Bitcoin. Bitcoin will make us rich and we can buy things that may be difficult for us to buy at the moment but by investing in bitcoin we can achieve our dreams in the years to come. We are all beginners who want to change our lives by investing in Bitcoin.

Maybe it's true that that won't happen in the near future because the investment we make is smaller compared to Blackrock, but in this case we have the same goal, namely buying and holding.

The biggest losses that occur today are for those who keep selling and there is no inner perseverance in them to hold it in the long run. Holding fiat is meaningless because its value will continue to decline due to inflation, Bitcoin has changed this path because its limited supply will make us rich in the decades to come.

We found ourselves currently accumulating bitcoins with small amounts of money only since joining this topic. As much as possible we are trying to accumulate enough bitcoins, feel useful from the day we start accumulating bitcoins. Only DCA method is the best method to invest, there are many big investors who can convert their capitals into Bitcoin.

Having a secure source of income is of particular importance for sustaining the DCAing process. Once you start a project, if you don't keep it going, it will die. Irregular flow of salary is a big problem in employment whether it is government or private.If you don't get paid on time, your DCAing routine can become uncoordinated. In this case you can start again after some time (Pause) interval where no one is exerting some force on you. When you have enough you fill in the blanks.This is your freedom and getting your profit into long term DCAing.

Amongst all three it seems that the second person has a far more better investment stance than the first and slightly better than the third and this is because he was a little fairly aggressive than the first person and continued to input 25% to his weekly DCA buying (And its clear from your explanation that all of them had equal financial capability and probably also had figured out their cashflow very well, meaning that they all had equal ability to be aggressive as the second person but for one reason or the other did not, maybe cause they are also feeding other asset alongside bitcoin),  I know that clearly the time he started has put him at quite a disadvantage compared to how well his other fellows investment are doing and how long they have been into it, and from your explanation he had already invested 100k in traditional investments which should already be bringing in some dividends by now that he could use to front load his investment at some point, but this would only be achieved if he realises at some point that bitcoin is a more better asset than the rest and decides to have more value in it then liquidating some asset is possible, just like Micheal saylor that sold most of his MSTR shares just to buy more bitcoin, IMO if the second guy wants to catch up at some point he must actually have to take a different approach than just the normal consistency, he has to also adopt other buying the dip strategies and maybe more investment into bitcoin with lump sum, but yeah it has to be done in a way that he won't be messing up himself too much and maybe spread his aggression over the years so that his other asset can still be generating extra income for him to invest in bitcoin.

The third person is also having a good portfolio and that is because he was fairly aggressive to invest in bitcoin and maybe at some point reduced his allocations to other asset.

My lesson from this is simple, get started early, now is early for me that started 2 months ago to invest and if I maintain my consistency with a little aggression like third cause I'm not well able now to be like the second untill I have an income raise then I'll be far better than someone who is going to start investing later in the future.

Self management is what matters a lot in our bitcoin journey. It is not a most that you need to have various means of income before you can be consistent and persistent with your DCA approach weekly or monthly. Those civil servant that you mentioned that are not being paid regularly, it is not a problem to hinder them from using DCA strategy to accumulate bitcoin, because it is the best option that a new beginner can use to accumulate bitcoin to a certain height. Since you said three to four months is when they get paid. I know that it cannot be always maybe it use to be once in a while that the government pays them like that while the other months are being paid regularly. Such investor only needs to frontload his DCA to cover for those monthly that he will  not be paid. If he is paid regularly, he continues to buy whenever he gets paid.

Although that's true, I'm basing my post from the viewpoint of plebs like me - who have just recently started their accumulation of Bitcoin. We don't have the capital like BlackRock or Warren Buffett. Because if the plebs did, I'm very confident they wouldn't be buying Bitcoin with almost 100% of their savings during 2019. Hahaha. They would be buying houses and yachts, or the next new sports car.

Plus the other point is to always be humble, and stack sats.

well at first I will say thanks for the clarifications it was helpful alot . One diversifying his money in shitcoins is like saying he don't want that money again (is not important) because at the shitcoins will only get you reckt. If I have gotten to such point  of diversifying , I would try and Diversify my money on other projects outside cryptocurrencies space  because at then I may have already gotten myself a good quantities of  Bitcoin stashed so what else , I will probably diversify my money in some project  can easy minimise or manage the risk like real estate, and some others worth Considering.

you are right the best is just for one to be consistent and persistent with his Bitcoin accumulating. One thing have learned since being in this thread is there's no reason to fear or panic whenever there's some dip or decrease in price due price fluctuations and all that as long have been consistent with accumulating I would be doing my self some big favour. Because have already see such price movements as an opportunity to stack more Bitcoin in your portfolio.

thanks, your are so right alot of folks at there are being mislead due to not having proper knowledge concerning Bitcoin and this all Space.  By some individuals who claim they know too much but they don't. So it is the duty of those who truly understand how things work here, to lead those who are ready to invest to the right part , so that they won't endup investing in some project that would get them reckt ( like shitcoins) . And also help them in a way to secure a proper investment ( bitcoin).
 

sometimes , depending on a single stream of income most expecially as an average salary earner might not give you the luxury of being consistent with your DCA methord most expecially in most countries where civil servants don't get paid on a regular bases and thier salaries can be withheld for months before paying which could be a serious setback that might possibly hinder the effectiveness of your DCA routine but knowledge and discipline entails that you understand the peculiarity of your Financial circumstances and make proper planning which might involve looking for alternative streams of income that will stand as a support system in times when issues might sprout out regarding how consistent you receive your pay.

For those in the business field, it's not going to be a big deal to do a monthly DCA  plan since you're very much in charge of your business and can take a set out portion of your profit into investment purpose while the rest goes back into the daily running of your business. Regardless of the nature of your source of income, with proper planning you can effectively practice and undergo in your accumulation with a very minimal challenge.

Every man needs money for his living so man engages himself in various business jobs so that he can provide his financial support.Whether people have a job or a business, they have a certain plan to set aside or insure some of the money they get at the end of the month. People should understand that if they deposit their remaining money in bitcoins, they can make more profit from bitcoins instead of cash. Bitcoin investment is easiest for those who have an additional income opportunity as they can invest in DCA method if they want. Anyone who invests in Bitcoin this way gives everyone the opportunity to deposit Bitcoins weekly or monthly. People who have a job get paid a fixed amount every month and not everyone spends the full amount of that salary. If they invest that money in bitcoin and if they accept their bitcoin investment as a bank, even if they are able to manage it for a long time, they will be able to succeed one day.

Bitcoin is probably around 1,000x better than gold, even though it could take 50-200 years before he market reflect that - unless bitcoin ends up breaking before then.. .. or something better comes to supersede bitcoin in order to take away its current place as a superior/strongest monetary asset.


I wasn't trying to specifically point out anything related to your actual finances, but instead giving an example of a wage and an ongoing aggressive BTC accumulation that could have had happened in the last 18 months at a rate of about 15% of someone's income... and yeah, some guys might not been able to accumulate BTC that aggressively because they may well have to put other aspects of their finances in place and also figuring outways to either increase their income or to cut their expenses in order to potentially achieve that level of aggressiveness... and that was part of the reason that I suggested that I anticipated that your situation was likely not even as good as the one that I was describing in terms of being able to get to a point of having 6 months worth of your income in BTC after ONLY being in bitcoin for less than 18 months.


I was not even really suggesting any kind of withdrawal even under those kinds of circumstances that were described in which the BTC price could double from here and then double again, and then those kinds of dynamics should be considered.. even though for sure a guy with even 2-3 years of value in BTC does not really seem to be in a position of withdrawing, but he may well be in a position in which he might been some needs to reallocate an to diversify out, whether it is bolstering his emergency fund and/or his float or diversifying into some other assets - and I surely am not referring to shitcoins or even locking up large amounts of value.. and yeah, there are guys who are in places in which it is nearly impossible to invest into anything besides bitcoin and shitcoins, so those are choices that guys would be faced with . and anyone getting into gambling shitcoins better be limiting his exposure to less than 10% of his BTC holdings.. .. .. but anyhow, since we have guys from all over the world, there could be guys who have access to investing into index funds or something, and even if they have 2-3 years of income in BTC, they still might be in a good place to merely bolster their emergency funds and reserves a bit.. and that could be enough..

and, yeah, if you are not quite even close to that and even if your BTC holdings might ONLY be 3 months of your annual income, then it well could take a 10x increase in BTC prices, and then 3 months turns into 30 months, so those are the kinds of scenarios, even guys with modest BTC holdings should be taking into account in terms of what is possible in the next 6 to 18 months - even though maybe the odds are not exactly that high to end up getting a 10x from here so quickly.. but you never know with BTC.. In March 2020, we dipped down to $3,850 and then maybe we could say that we bounced back to $10k-ish by late in the year (2020), yet within the next 12 months we were 6x and 7x higher than those $10k prices... ..

And, surely some folks might not consider the kind of runs from 2017 to be possible or likely, but those 2 years resulted in more than a 78x price appreciation from the 2015 bottom to the 2017 top.. .. but then maybe we might say that they measuring point might NOT start until around January 2017 when we reached $1k, and so by the end of 2017, we had accomplished a 20x.. so the BIG numbers are possible and they should be considered in terms of where your BTC holdings might be and if you might need to consider some adjustments based on those kinds of possible levels of exuberance and outrageousness.. and sure it may be the case that you just keep accumulating and hold through it. and make tiny adjustments along the way and just let the BTC price do whatever it is going to do while you just continue to regularly stack sats.. whether the BTC price is high or low..

and I am not even opposed to that.. especially for both a guy that is still going through his first whole cycle and a guy who also might not have a high discretionary/disposable income, it may well be the best of strategies just to continue to pace yourself through the whole matter however it ends up playing out.. which surely guys who were new to bitcoin and went through either the 2017 price run or the 2021 price run, they would have still ended up fine by just continuing to buy the whole time.. . which was kind of the case for me, except I started at the top of the 2013 run, so I started while the price was going down rather than while it was going up.. so the dynamics are a bit different in terms of what might be reasonable and how to play it.. even though in the long run DCA does still end up working for both, especially for any persons with relatively low levels of disposable/discretionary income.


Trading does seem to be worse.. and yeah, if you are able to figure out some consistent system to focus on BTC accumulation, then you likely will be good.. .. .. even though like jossiel mentioned there can be quite a few psychological challenges to go through real BIG price swings, yet we cannot even really know how much of a price correction is going to happen or how long it is going to last until after it has happened, so there are a lot of guys who end up selling too much too soon and they are never really able to figure out when to buy back. when they likely would have been better to just keep buying regularly because at least that way they can see the number of their sats increasing, even though the value per sat might be fluctuating a lot along the way, too.


The meaning of aggressiveness does not have to do with the amount that you are putting in.. because even if you are ONLY putting in $10 per week, you might be being as aggressive as you are able to be.. so I am not really talking about amounts when I refer to aggressiveness.. but there are ways that you can be aggressive by just making sure that you have all your financial and mental matters in order, so then you are able to afford to be more aggressive than someone who is disorganized and is not paying attention to his cashflow, his emergency fund, his reserves and his float.. and so yeah, you might also make some mistakes because you might sometimes get too aggressive, but if you are planning through various aspects, then your mistakes are not likely going to be enough to put you out of the game.. the mistakes end up not being able to buy for a few weeks or having to use some of your emergency fund because you fucked up with your management of your reserves and/or your float. and things like that.. so part of this whole matter is staying in the game, since there are hostile governments and hostile financial institutions that would like to remove you from your coins and even discourage and/or dissuaded you from accumulating bitcoin... I get the sense that some of the matters related to fees in the last 6 months were attacks on the psychology and the finances of poor people, and so poor people have to figure out ways to be more organized and to put systems in place so that you can still accumulate bitcoin, even when there are forces working against you, and surely as I said before holding your own keys, but maybe you have to build up your wallet size on some exchange to get it up to $500 or $1k before you move it to a private wallet.. which also can cause additional risks that you have to figure out for yourself you level of wanting to deal with that or you might screw yourself if you end up having 400 transactions that are valued between $10 and $100 and when you should have taken measures to limit the number of UTXOs that you have that are so small like that.
 

It is not guaranteed but surely we have quite a bit of evidence in place that bitcoin is going to continue to have a lot more UPside movements, so this is a good place to be, yet you still have to figure out your position size and your balancing of you position size with real world concerns.. so that you will have enough fiat during times in which you need it.
 

 Yep.. we get arguments about whether 1% adoption has already happened or not, and there can be some distortions since there are a lot of rich people gobbling up the supply.. which also will deter poor people from doing their own gobbling up of coins... so there are so many normies who don't realize that they are going to need bitcoin, ... .while at the same time none of us knows the future exactly.. which again gets us back to figuring out our position size.


Many people will probably need to take more than a whole cycle and even 2-3 cycles or more.. to be able to really get to a point of accumulating enough BTC.. so you might end up being ahead of the game, even if you perceive that you were a bit of a slow starter.. but there are a lot of folks who consider that they are too late, but they end up not doing anything or they get distracted into shitcoins because they are searching for the next bitcoin or the quick 10x or quick 100x.. .. hahahahahaha .. I remember some of the trolls were even worse in 2017 when they were arguing that BTC was not going up fast enough and pumping their shitcoin bullshit. ..and yeah, there might have been some of them who were able to get in and out of their shitcoin, but just holding BTC worked pretty damned good for guys who bought and held through that whole period, even though guys will sometimes start to get depressed when the BTC price is down 50% and it keeps correcting... and so the end of the correction remains unclear.. but the  guys who kept buying through 2018, 2019 and 2020.. ended up looking like geniuses later down the road.. .. and so we cannot know how it will end up playing out this time.


No problem.. one of the best teachers is your own practices and your application and your coming back to help other guys. .. we are going to continue to get newbies, and even though you might be feeling like a newbie, at some point you are going to be having to teach the newbies who are coming here.. .. including figuring out ways to deal with the traders and the shitcoiners... who might not always be completely wrong.. but on this forum,  there are other threads for that, too... yet they are still going to be coming into threads like this and also into some of the other bitcoin threads and either pumping shitcoins or trying to get you to sell your coins earlier than is probably for your own good... and likely many of us will also question our own practices.. because even if we are continuing to build our sats, we sometimes will consider if we might need to make some adjustments to get some more sats.. or more bang for the buck, which is part of the dilemma presented in this thread, even though many guys have considered DCA to be the best, buying the dip (or even lump summing) sometimes will get us more sats.. it is just quite difficult figure out when the dip is going to be, how far it will go or how long it is going to last.


I made this prediction a bit spontaneously from numbers that came into my head (and wanting them to add up to 100%), and so I was also trying to ball park the numbers but also to frame the various possible price ranges in terms of both where we might be in 10 years (or what price range we might be in in 10 years).. based on where we are at right now.. and so if something were to change, I might have to change my ranges or my odds... so for example, if we were to shoot down to $20k or we shot up to $200k within the next 6 months, then I likely would have to reconsider matters.. and any of that kind of shooting around is quite likely, and it would probably be unlikely that the price would perform in such a gradual kind of way that my numbers would not end up changing along the way..

I frequently like to go by the 200-WMA, and so if that 200-WMA is kind of staying on track, then it gives decently good guidelines for where we are at, how we got here and where we might be going.. which I figure is represented in my entry-level fuck you status chart... which shows the historical and projected 200-WMA every 6 months.. and even this 6 month period, it is appearing that the upward trajectory is going to have to get upgraded from 16% to around 23%. which is going to end up changing the subsequent bottom (200WMA) prediction numbers and even my own ongoing consideration that my last updating of that chart in November 2023 was too conservative (so yeah, I am planning to update it every 6 months.. .even though maybe I should update it more often or even create another thread just for updating it more frequently.. especially since I refer to it so often.


I would imagine that its odds for going to zero in a longer timeline would be greater than it is for within the next 10 years, but who knows?  It could well be that bitcoin is with us forever, as amazing as even the idea of that seems to be and a lot of no coiners and precoiners cannot get their minds around the concept that bitcoin has a kind of existence that makes it stronger than gold.. . .(and in the ballpark of 1,000x more valuable than gold, even though it could take 50-200 years to get to that valuation).


My phrasing regarding the "stuck there" is mostly an attempt to say where we might be 10 years from now.. so "stuck there" might not have been a great descriptive choice... .. but maybe if I had just said, where is the BTC price going to be in 10 years and then assigned ranges, that might have been better, even though we know that the BTC price could go up down or whatever, and then where-ever we might end up in 10 years could be crazy, because there could be scenarios that bitcoin does something outrageous and moves through some pretty broad swaths of prices, even though there is a certain kind of Lindy effect that is going on too.. and also including that the more capital that comes in, then the more capital it takes to move the price.


Probably a bad way of phrasing where we might be in 10 years, and surely I agree that BTC is both designed to pump forever, but also there are likely to be a lot of battles between here and $5 million or so then maybe between $5 million and $100 million per coin might be price arenas in which it becomes a lot more difficult to move the price as much.. so yeah, bitcoin is almost inevitably going to be volatile at least until we get to $5million, which could happen in a cycle or two or three or maybe it takes longer to get there.. and there are going to be both battles and also ongoing and continuous gravitation of monetary value into BTC. .. which is why its addressable market is close to $2.1 quadrillion in future value and around $1 quadrillion in current value.. but there is likely going to be more monetary value in the future as well that is brought by things like bitcoin that we don't necessarily know, yet.. and so $2.1. quadrillion is $1 per satoshi.. but yeah it could take 50 to 200 years to get there..


You are nutso, and you are bound to be wrong.  Evenif you want to stick to those categories, you need to at least present all of the possibilities..

So maybe something like this would be more encapsulating of all possibilities from your perspective.. which again is nutso, as presented, even if one of those two possibilities might end up playing out..

Stablexcoin's prediction reframed into comprehensiveness

Below $500k - 1% or less

Low-end prediction: $500k - $800k - 69%

High end: $1M - $2M - 29%

Greater than $2 million - 1% or less

You can tweak these numbers  if you like.. but at least the categories are not logically fallacious if you at least account for all of the possibilities, which your earlier example did not and your earlier example likely assigned too high of values to your  two price range possibilities, even though surely you are free to believe whatever you like, even if you are living in a fantasy with your failure/refusal to acknowledge all possibilities.  


Whenever I make future predictions, I try to frame them in terms of either today's dollars or a reasable ongoing dollar debasement, even though we know that the dollar is not going to debase in a reasonable way..  .. sure we could make our predictions in terms of some other asset like gold or oil or big macs or something like that or even measuring from Hookers, lambos, blow and yachts, but at this time, we are still measuring these kinds of matters in terms of dollars, which the dollars ongoing debasement is perverting values a lot since it is likely going to enter into hyperinflation at some point, so we will end up having to measure in other ways when that ends up happening.. which may or may not end up happening soon within 1-30 years.. I have no clue about how long the dollar/fiat/debt-laden ponzi scheme can keep from totally crashing..


Yep.. Negotiation seems to be ongoingly blind and ongoingly fighting the idea of investing for the long term.. so he is going to have to have fun staying poor... because he is likely never going to get ahead by saving in fiat and failing/refusing to build a BTC stash (even if it is a small one), and surely there are going to be a lot of people coming to bitcoin quite late and wishing that they could have stacked some sats for less than $100k per BTC... and there are going to be satoshi millionaires and they are going to be quite proud of themselves, when right now we can get become a satoshi millionaire for right around $700.. what a deal!!!  that some of us do not recognize and/or appreciate.

I remember less than a year ago, I helped my sister to become a satoshi multimillionaire and it was on several occasions that added up; to a few hundred dollars for sharing various costs and I paid her in BTC. and since then, she has been stacking her own sats... so I am not sure how many she has, but they surely have become more expensive over the last year to year and a half.

For most this is the job, you work for your living but it may not be enough.And anything other than sufficient income is out of the question.In this case, small income people can move towards DCA strategies but on a small scale.Start with a small portion of your weekly or monthly income, such as $100. And if you start, you can save it without any hindrance in addition to household expenses. If you can keep DCAing for at least a year then you are successful.This is how people's success stories begin. And bitcoin DCAing a deposit is going to be great for you in future.

Thumbs up for this Jay. However, i believe its a complex task to predict the price movement of bitcoin. But you have made efforts to share your thoughts on what concerns you.

You have assigned a probability of <1% to Bitcoin reaching zero which I fully agree with you. It is difficult to believe that Bitcoin will ever go to zero someday irrespective of the factors that may affect the price (regulation, adoption, technical development, and competition). Prediction number 9 interests me the most. This is because the probability of hitting $1m and $2 is above the 12.5% margin. I support any investor with a whole of Bitcoin and will be much happier. My only consideration is that the price won't get stuck there. I don't know your reasons for thinking that the price would get stuck at certain price ranges, which is not typical market behavior for Bitcoin. The market tends to fluctuate so sustained plateaus are unlikely.

Here's how confident I am predicting that the price of Bitcoin will be in the next 10 years.

Low-end prediction: $500k - $800k - 70%
High end: $1M - $2M - 30%

Considering that the rate of inflation may be greater 10 years from now, I doubt that bitcoin would want to remain at the bottom when it's a hedge against inflation.

I pretty much understand your point sir @JayJuanGee and  you're definitely right,  like I keep on saying I haven't  gotten far with my accummulation so I'm far from thinking of withdrawing now , my aim now is to keep accumulating and hodl till I hit my accummulation goal. Like I said back then I focus mainly on trading which eventually was a damn waste of time(It may be helpful to others but to me it wasn't) , so back then I wasn't as aggressive I am now due to knowing about the thread and the knowledge I have acquired from it concerning Bitcoin investment. Well to be honest most of us here are not able to be more aggressive the way we wanna in our Accumulation due to our earnings not being able to keep up .but all I know is that as my earnings or sources multiply as time goes so as my accumulating rate would also multiply . Just as you said we are still in the early stage, though have missed alot of opportunity in investing in bitcoin but this time around am not planning to take any chances, I will keep accumulating going even though it take me a whole cycle to hit my goal it still worth it. And have alot to still learn from you sir JJG and other users here while I keep  Accumulating .

While most people now make money for a living, there are few people who can earn some extra income beyond a job or fixed income. What you suggest is certainly valid, but most people by now think that cash is the only thing that matters to them. That's basically why they convert from all other currencies or from bitcoins to cash. Because of this they cannot implement any kind of plan, because the cash withdrawals are spent on life or livelihood.

This is one of the main reasons why most investor who understand this nature of bitcoin choses to invest in bitcoin rather than stocks and forex. Let me put it this way that bitcoin has no one to trust, it's given you the authority to trust only yourself as an investor through its ledger storing them in the wallet. What more can I say? The source code is transparent and cannot be manipulated building trust and transparency in the system. None of these features of bitcoin exist in the stocks, forex and in the fiat monetary system generally. 

Another reason is that bitcoin has been the best performing asset since its existence. In terms of value, it has been the most appreciating assets. Its value can be compared to that of gold and silver, i would say 5o times better than gold and 100 times better than silver. There are plenty of other reason why people would prefer bitcoin to any other assets. Of which those reasons are best known to them. But generally, security is what we investors value most in bitcoin. No digital technology has the same level of security that bitcoins have.

This is a good point.

A person might want to be as aggressive as he can be within his own means to acquire as many bitcoin as he is able to do, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as he does not cause something like the wealth (or the earlier BTC adoption) of someone else to cloud his own visions regarding some of his own limits.

There is no problem with some healthy levels of competition, since it is quite likely that many of us engage in a certain level of competition, yet there are also some needs for measuring our own levels of aggressiveness in reasonable kinds of ways in order that we do not end up overdoing it or even contributing to our own levels of becoming too emotional in the ways that we are investing and/or protecting ourselves..  

Let's say for example, there are two guys of very similar economic status and maybe in their early 30s, and maybe they earn around $40k per year and they are able to save and/or invest around $4k (10%) to $10k (25%) per year - depending on how aggressive they are or how much they had been building up their investment portfolios.. so if each of them had been investing and/saving for 10 years, there could be quite a bit of variance in both the size of their investment portfolio and also what is contained in their investment portfolio, and after 10 years investing,

Guy1-  Earlier bitcoin investor with 10% investment -  might have around $40k invested - but he discovered bitcoin 7 years ago.. so he has around $22k invested into traditional investments  like stocks ($8k in his first 2 years and then $14k in his last 7 years).. and around $18k invested into bitcoin at $50 per week that resulted in about 2 BTC.  If we assume around a 50% increase in the value of his traditional investment, his total investment portfolio is worth about $161k ($21k stocks + $140k BTC)

Guy2- Later Bitcoin investor with 25% invested -  might have $100k invested but only invested into traditional investments of stocks, and just discovered BTC... so the total value of his investment portfolio might be around $150k.. so this guy surely could catch up to the earlier guy by starting to invest aggressively into bitcoin at around $200 per week (or even lump sump moving some of his earlier investment into BTC), yet it does not seem as practical to lump sum invest with all of it, so he has to find some  kind of a balance and then start to pursue bitcoin with $200 per week and he will likely end up passing up the guy who is ONLY investing 10% of his income.. and perhaps only 5% into bitcoin.

On the other hand, if there were a third guy (guy3) with the same demographics as the other two and a 15% per year investment of his salary which would be $6k per year and a total of $60k invested over 10 years -  but who had taken both a more aggressive bitcoin stance and a more aggressive overall investment stance than the 10% guy but not as aggressive as the 25% guy, yet who had also discovered bitcoin around 7 years ago and who had been investing into bitcoin for the last 7 years at $100 per week, and who continues to invest at $100 per week.. so his total portfolio has $23,500 invested into stocks and then $36,500 invested into bitcoin with 4 BTC accumulated  So his total portfolio would be $315k ($35k stocks and $280k BTC)

The second guy who is investing 25% per year for the past 10 years is the most aggressive of the three investors, yet his total portfolio has performed the worst over the past 10 years, and since in this scenario, he had just discovered bitcoin, he surely could catch up and pass the first guy in a fairly short period of time, yet if those two guys were to maintain their same pace, it could take him 15-20 years to catch up to the third guy since the third guys in not overly aggressive, but he is maintaining a pretty good pace of $100 per week, and he might never catch up to the third guy unless he increases his income and/or cuts his expensive, but he might not have as much room to work with since he is already aggressively investing 25% of his income at $200 per week-ish, so it is not always easy to either increase your income or decrease your expenses in order to be able to invest more, so in some sense, the second guy just has to continue to invest at his own pace and there may be some points in which he ends up catching up to the third guy. but surely no guarantees and probably no reason to really overly stress out about.


I think that many of us are pushing the idea that every time that a long term investor adds new capital to his investment, then that new capital should be considered in terms of having a 4-10 year or longer timeline before it is going to be needed (or wanted), so surely if a guy is investing for 4-10 years or longer, by the time he gets into his 6th year of investing, he is going to have some of his earlier investments that have been brewing (or sitting for 6 years or so) and then his later investment amounts would have not had as much time to brew  (or to compound or to grow in value).. ... of course, the longer that he is investing the more options that begin to develop regarding how he might change the way that he builds and/or maintains his investment, so it would not really start to make sense to both buy and sell at the same time, but if he has enough time building, he might get to a point in which he thinks that he is able to somewhat attempt to play the trends.. but not necessarily structuring any sales in a way that he expects to be able to buy back.. so if he does not quite have enough (or he mis-measures how much he has versus how much he thinks he has), then he could end up running into a situation in which he sold too much too soon and/or he failed to continue to maintain enough focus on ongoing BTC accumulation.


Surely there is no certainty.. yet we might need to consider what we believe to be possibilities.

No one responded to my post from a few days ago in this very same thread when I attempted to assign some probabilities to where I speculated that the BTC prices might be 10 years from now... It was how I was thinking about the topic at the time of the posting, and sure the probabilities might change with the passage of time (and the happening of events), too.

 

We do not have to imagine, even though we could describe a certain kind of hypothetical of a guy who might have invested $100 per week for the past 5 years, and consider that their older bitcoin are likely more in profits than the more recent bitcoin, even though right now when BTC is bouncing around within 5% of the ATH territory, it is pretty much every single person is going to be in profits, and the longer they have been accumulating, the more profits that they would have put themselves in.. so long as they had not screwed around with trading and/or leverage (which may or may not have helped themselves in comparison to a more strict ongoing, consistent and persistent DCA strategy.

$100 per week of BTC accumulation over the past 5 years would have had resulted in $26,100 invested and 1.5578 BTC accumulated (currently worth about $109k - about 4.2x returns), and maybe not enough to feel comfortable to be at entry level fuck you status, but surely enough to cause a person to feel pretty good about his progress and the options that the BTC stash is providing.

Another example would be a guy who might have started investing 10 years ago at the same amount of $100 per week.  He would have had invested $52k into BTC and he would have accumulated nearly 44.4 BTC (which currently would be worth about $3.1 million - about 60x returns).. so there can can be quite a bit of value that comes from allowing additional time to pass - even though it seems quite unlikely that BTC is going to be returning such great returns...

None of us should be complaining even if BTC were to at least keep up with inflation (the debasement of the dollar and other fiats), and any kind of extra return would be a bonus... yet surely we are going to be more inspired to aggressively invest into bitcoin when we consider that it has good chances of beating rather than merely matching the performance of other possible places to put our value to save/invest.


Edit After I had written my whole response, @jossiel, I come to realize that I had misunderstood your points... so I went back through my response to attempt to fix it a bit.. .. but when I saw that it still might contain some of my earlier misunderstanding.. I decided to change my response.

I agree that a guy might believe that he has everything figured out, and then he ends up getting frustrated because he ends up buying at top.. and he had not really adequately planned for the correction, even though he thought that he was sufficiently prepared.

part of the trick is to get out of the trader mindset and get into the investor mindset.. which means to prepare yourself to be holding your investment into BTC for 4-10 years or longer no matter what the price does.. .. so if you are overly worried about the price, in regards to whether you are in profits or in the negative, then you likely have not prepared either the correct mindset of the correct approach that will prepare yourself to deal with the likely inevitable volatility of BTC prices... so preparing financially is figuring out position size but also having your financial matters in order that includes your maintaining emergency funds, reserves and a float.. emergency fund should be at least 3 months, but if you have complicated things going on in your life that either potentially involves expenses that could come up or fluctuations and/or drying up of your cashflow, then you need emergency funds that cover longer periods of time.

Also if you invest into bitcoin for 1-3 years and then the price goes shooting up and you cannot control your emotions because you see how much it had become worth and you just cannot resist but to tap into it, then likely you have to figure out some way to deal with that.. since what is it that you are wanting to do with the money?  Are you wanting to consume? or you want to diversify into other investments? or what is it that causes you to get worked up about it?  It could be that even though you are still in your BTC accumulation stage that you might have to take some off the table and to invest into other things because you cannot handle how much it had become, even though you should also realize that the amount of BTC that you might never be able to get back the amount of BTC that you end up shaving off.. so that should be factored into your consideration regarding how much BTC you feel that you need to shave off, and you should be attempting to do these things without emotion.. so that you had somewhat preplanned them rather than acting out too rashly merely based on sudden changes in the BTC price.


I agree it is good to attempt to think through the various scenarios and try to be prepared, even for extreme scenarios.

You don't like the idea of planning?  

Yes it can be difficult to plan for everything, yet we can set out some scenarios so that we are somewhat prepared to mostly know what we are going to do, and so if we end up doing something, we are already in the ballpark of what we had already planned, even if we might not have had planned the specific situation that ends up playing out.  We are likely not going to be able to completely know how certain matters will play out, but we should have a certain level of preparation for a variety of scenarios and also for some scenarios that go beyond our expectations.


It is true that if the BTC price goes shooting up, guys end up not really being as prepared as they thought that they were.

That is not true.  

You could plan that you are not selling any BTC if the price goes anywhere between $80k and $180k in the next 1 to 9 months.. and then maybe you have some plans that if it goes faster than that, then you might end up selling some.. even though you already might know that you are in accumulation phase and if they BTC price keeps going up then you have to make sure that you do not sell too much too soon.. so there are risks for any guys who are selling some of their BTC and they already know that they do not have enough BTC.


That is getting back to the idea of having your finances otherwise in order.. which is also having certain amounts of funds..

You may well be in another position jossiel than a member who is brand new to investing into bitcoin.. especially since you have been registered on the forum for more 8 years and 3 days.. happy anniversary.. so yeah if you been in bitcoin longer than you might have more luxuries in terms of how many BTC you have already accumulated.

Let's say for example that a guy has only been into bitcoin for a year and a half (looking at I_Anime), his income is about $36k per year, $3k per month, and he is investing about 15% into bitcoin which is $100 per week which is $5,200 per year and $7,800 for 18 months), he had continued to maintain a 3 month emergency fund and also 3 months of reserve funds, so if he had only been investing for 18 months, his investment into bitcoin would be merely around 0.282 BTC - which currently is close to $20k in value and slightly more than 6 months of his income (if we are looking at BTC spot price) .. so he should feel pretty good about all of that, and he has a steady income and is investing around 15% of his income into BTC, but then if the BTC price were to double to $140k, then all of a sudden his BTC holdings are more than 1 year of income.. and so if BTC prices double again to $380k, then he would have 2-3 years of income in his BTC holdings.. so then he might start to think that his investment is getting ahead of his levels of preparations, and he might have to take some BTC off the table in order to either bolster his emergency or reserve funds, or perhaps he starts to feel some needs to have some of his value in other assets/investments.. and so there is nothing wrong with having some of those kinds of considerations in advance and even plans to take some off of the table, even if the guy might have concluded that he does not have enough BTC.

I actually suspect that I_Anime does not even have that good of finances in place,   ..  but I don't know, yet these would be the kinds of considerations that a newer guy into bitcoin would have to attempt to take into account and try to plan around so that he can control the amount that he sells or does not sell and to consider if there might be some price points in which it does not make sense for him to continue to DCA.. and either just to hold those funds or maybe put them into other assets.. which are all trade offs, in which some guys will just continue to accumulate BTC for more than a whole cycle before getting into any ideas of selling any BTC or even discontinuing their DCA... but part of the problem is reality.. and the reality may well be that the job of any newbie is not really paying very high wages as compared to the appreciation of their BTC (at least the appreciation that may not end up being sustainable)

They should not compare any individual success or activity done since each people have their own timeline on when they starting up their journey to hodl. If they see those people doing good on what they are currently doing then everything is fine on their end and we can just look after them then try to get inspired to get more better result to. But they must not forget that they must do better for theirselves since no one can help them to decide what strategy to use,how much they are willing to spend and how long the timeline they set before they decide on when to execute everything according to their plans.

Bitcoin is just there and for sure it will stay for long time since many people already know its existence and provably for more years we can see a lot of success including more price rise especially that we know there's only limited supply for it then there's a lot more people coming to grab some because they see how good bitcoin as an asset or investment.

If so then you can definitely divide your money into two to three parts. And can you keep some of your money as an emergency fund, so that you don't have to sell your investment in case of any danger? That's why there should be enough knowledge so that we can use the emergency fund anytime, DCA investment is so important that you only realize when you start saving money. Note that you should never consider selling a hold if you have future financial benefits from the amount you invest.

You really have to set and plan out your DCA if you're going to do that because if you don't, big tendency of you dumping the Bitcoin that you've just bought is high.

And that's no common sense for you when you do that as you're just going to throw up your money again to it. Why it should be important for you to plan it?

To avoid scenarios like this that you have no option but to sell the purchased Bitcoin of yours. But if you have done it and you have spare money in doing it, you'll not be forced to sell it when you are in need.

  well said, there's no investment that there's no risk attached, there's a reason why risk tolerance is number 6 of the    9 principle individual factors . So yeah there are risk in Bitcoin investment, but it can be easily minimise with proper plannings and all that , like engaging in long-term investment in Bitcoin as also help to reduce the risk . Because that chancea of one selling his long-term holding in losses is pretty low comparing to those that normally base in short-term profits alone. That why most time is best to encourage someone to engage in long-term holding than short-terms. Just as you said , imagine those that started their accumulation five years back imagine the profit they have Made (depending on the number coins they have accumulated so far though). But you can see that chances of them selling in loss is damn low, because they embark on long-term holding .