Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 343. (Read 108545 times)

I agree with you that Bitcoin does not require much learning before one can start a Bitcoin investment. Once newbies have the basic knowledge of Bitcoin and also understand that Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quickly scheme, that it is a long-term hold for like 4-5 years before the real profit will come. I think when newbies know these basic things about Bitcoin, whenever they are ready to invest in Bitcoin they will use the money they will not need soon to invest in Bitcoin with the DCA strategy because they know Bitcoin is a long-term hodl. They can continue to learn about Bitcoin after they have made their investment in Bitcoin.

Many people think that investing in bitcoins doesn't require much learning, yes investing in bitcoins doesn't require much learning, if there are some minimal ideas to invest. There is no end to learning, the more you try to learn the more knowledge you can gain. Actually gaining knowledge in Bitcoin is not a difficult matter. You don't need to go to school and get a degree to learn about Bitcoin. If one can study this bitcointalk forum regularly for a few days to learn bitcoin then one can easily gain knowledge about bitcoin. Besides, one can easily learn about Bitcoin from those who have enough knowledge about Bitcoin. So why invest in Bitcoin with little knowledge? It is better to invest by acquiring good knowledge about Bitcoin.

In terms of investment, you can actually experiment while learning, because there really isn't much that needs to be theorized about investment as long as someone already knows which assets are the best and why those assets are the best. So it is necessary to introduce yourself at an early stage while reading several theories that can help you invest in Bitcoin.

That's what I meant above so studying theory doesn't need to take too long because in the end it also requires direct practice of what we have read previously. So learning while practicing is quite a good and complete thing to reap maximum results in a job and the most important thing is not to quickly give up on what we have done in a certain time after taking the time to study it and practice it on ourselves. Stick to good paths and methods such as DCA if you are also starting to like Buy the Dip, and Hodl.

How can you be motivated to invest in Bitcoin if you don't know about Bitcoin investing? Don't you know that the more experienced you are with Bitcoin the more successful you are. Because you don't know what to do about Bitcoin? There are ideas. Because of course our education about bitcoin is very important because if I don't have knowledge about bitcoin then investment is definitely ricks. Only after knowing the information should we awaken our ability to take risks, and invest in Bitcoin to the best of our ability as we move forward into the future. So I definitely prioritize learning about Bitcoin and gaining knowledge about investing.

Your comments are mostly fair Churchillvv,  yet there are a lot of ways to deal with uncertainties in terms of upside and also acknowledging that upside is not guaranteed and even going to zero is not a non-zero event, even though it may well be a 1 in a million kind of an event...or some other low probability kind of a situation.

So a couple of fairly obvious ways to deal with the various negative scenarios might be to figure out position size that allows you to account for that, and there is no reason that you might still be aggressive and also be reluctant to sell any BTC until reaching some kind of a target amount while at the same time acknowledging the various possible negative scenarios.

Another thing is that bitcoin is such a great asymmetric bet to the upside that if the upside scenarios end up playing out any of us could become rich as fuck (or at least beyond any of our wildest of expectations) and the most that you could lose (as long as you don't employ leverage) would be 100% of your investment, but you could end up gaining multitudes higher especially since there is a quite a bit of power in compounding profits which results in exponential growth of investment sizes.

Another thing is that you could actually still achieve exponential growth and great compounding profits even while shaving off small amounts of profits along the way... and I think that I mentioned to someone that I have around 80% of the amount of cash in my bitcoin related investment portfolio that I had totally invested into bitcoin, but still my cash is like only 2.5% the size of the value of my whole BTC investment porfolio that includes calculating the value of the bitcoin and the cash that is dedicated to buying bitcoin.. . and part of the explanation is that my BTC profits are around 37x to 38x, so you might be able to imagine why the amount that I invested is like around less than 2.5% fo the overall value and that happens to be the amount of cash that I am holding... so it can be quite amazing to be able to shave off profits from time to time, and still have plenty of BTC so that there is not so many worries about it.. even though surely, even if someone has a lot of other non-BTC assets, sometimes there still can be feelings like there is too much bitcoin exposure.

Some people will be quite challenged to ever getting into a position of having too much BTC, because sometimes it can take 10, 20 or 30 years to get to that kind of a position in which you had been building up your investment portfolio.. and still be lucky to still be alive an to be able to reap some of the profits from it.

Another example might be a real poor person who might ONLY make less than $5k per year, and so it might feel like a real lot of money to get up to $5k invested into bitcoin, and if the person ONLY has bitcoin and cash as his/her investment portfolio, there could be some questions regarding if such person should not start to engage in diversification. .. and so at what point is the diversification question becoming relevant might be different foreach person even though I like to use the annual income as a kind of guide and I also like to consider that anyone getting in the arena of 20x to 30x of his/her annual income in his/her investment portfolio, then s/he is likely reaching entry level fuck you status, which largely means that s/he should not need to work anymore and s/he should be able to live off of his/her investment portfolio for the rest of his/her life without really depleting it.

I have several times mentioned that I like to use the 200-week moving average to assess the value of my BTC stash (not spot price), and so spot price could still affect what i do, but the 200-week moving average helps to reach a fair value of the BTC based on bottom prices. rather than getting mislead by bitcoin's ongoing volatility that is not likely to really get any better in the coming 10-20 years, which should be relevant to almost any of us currently investing into bitcoin.

This response of yours has now open and/or widen my horizons, because most people have created this illusion around long term holding of bitcoin as the messiah that guarantees 100% profit in future without rational thinking, just to prove themselves lovers of Bitcoin or thereabout. now making someone who is selling out their Bitcoin of any amount look foolish or something even though the reason for selling is quite convincing and underminding the fact that Bitcoin is over 14 years now that it could be someone's target of holding or someone who has hodl for about 10 years or thereabout could have been a long time holding for the so called person. Some people might sell out there holdings for some reason like health issues etc but constantly I see people judging from their subjectivity and/or biased views that it is only advisable to hodl for long time. The manner in which it's been discussed brings up this xenocentrism in people who might not be well grounded in Bitcoin or the forum itself to feel so low and/or disappointed in themselves speaking from an empathic view. In as much as am concerned the major reason for venturing into Bitcoin is for the sole aim of profit. Infact every investment is majorly for profit but although in the case of Bitcoin it not  about investment but other knowledge included. So considering long time holding doesn't guarantee profit.

Actually in this situation I think it is optional. We do need to learn about what bitcoin is and how to invest in bitcoin but we don't need to learn too much about investment theory if we really want to start because in the end this kind of theory will only make you struggle in learning but not dare to try.
I do not deny that learning is something very important but you should also try to directly practice what you learn because after all we can also still learn by doing so that the theory we learn is directly in the form of action in practice so that you know that what you learn is true or not.

Too much time can be spent waiting, when within that time, you can already start gathering bitcoins. The most important question before investing should be the right coin to invest in, which should be bitcoins and where to buy the bitcoins safely, just also as keeping it safe. If these questions can be answered, then a new investor can start investing before they are able gain more inside knowledge on bitcoins.

Buying while learning will be good and may help in the learning process.

Bitcoin investment does not require as much knowledge as trading requires, if you have a basic understanding of Bitcoin you are good to invest in Bitcoin because what you will only have to do is to buy the quantity of Bitcoin with the strategy that suits you and hodl it on your Bitcoin wallet for the period you intend hodling it. Anyone who Invests in Bitcoin because someone has benefited from Bitcoin investment, that person does not have any knowledge about Bitcoin he/she only invested in Bitcoin because of FOMO. And nobody will like to invest in something they do not know of.

Actually you have said it all because for a beginners to have develop passion on investing on bitcoin is when he is being shown the practical aspects of the learning as such that if his normal intentions is for accumulating using $10 on a weekly basis but however since he is still getting use to the basis of bitcoin he could start with $5 weekly accumulation at least to get use to the bitcoin investment then later he can continue with his normal amounts he intend to use in his accumulation.

So perhaps if a beginners is investing, it could help enhance or encourage him the more in times of learning about bitcoin and investment instead of going through all the learning without really knowing or seeing what investment is all about perhaps the beginner may be discouraged on the process because in times of investment is always wise to be learning as you are investing because that would be your propelling factor or motivation

The way you framed that seems quite a bit off topic....

"locking in profit" both sounds like a trading term and also a kind of valuing your bitcoin in dollars.. as if you want to lock in dollar profits, which is also short term thinking and does not even address the idea of portfolio management, which might have had been what you were trying to say but just using trading terms.. which we are trying to de-emphasize those kind of ideas in this thread. 

Sure we are in both worlds of dollars and bitcoin, but still why be so blatant about desires to increase dollars matters?


You don't have to study very much to get started in investing in bitcoin (as Roseline492 also mentioned in response to you), but if you try to employ more sophisticated techniques or you want to attempt to maximize your ways of investing in to bitcoin as compared with other investments that you have versus other assets/currencies that you might invest in, then you may need to study more about that too.

But if you just start out with some straight-forward techniques of investing into bitcoin that involve dollar cost averaging or maybe some other techniques, then the starting points may well just have to do with your figuring out your own cashflow.. and setting up some areas to source your bitcoin and figuring out if you are going to hold your BTC at the place that you got it versus holding your BTC yourself, and probably the more bitcoin that you accumulate, the more security, benefits and sovereignty will come from holding at least some of it on your own and separately, and it could take a bit of learning and practice to get used to privately holding and deciding on which systems to use for such private bitcoin storage and/or abilities to privately transact, if that also might become a choice of what to do with held bitcoin..


Sure there is value in education and even learning how to learn, and surely some people are more curious than others, and you might be correct that someone who spends more time on learning has better chances of doing better than someone who is less curious.. nonetheless I find it difficult to try to lump success in these kinds of ways because I am not sure if success is solely based on willingness to learn - even though we do like to frequently suggest that making efforts and ongoing efforts and attempting to learn from our efforts is quite valuable in the pursuit of success arena.. if we might see some folks starting from otherwise similar circumstances, we likely could presume that the one who put more efforts in learning and organizing and learning from mistakes would do better. .even though there are also some implications of action is needed too.. so learning without action can sometimes end up in NOT really benefiting from the learning.


These are pretty general ideas, and nothing really disagreeable about any of them.


I hate to be overly nitpicky, but it seems that I did not say that you have to use all three methods, but that they should be considered at various points in time.  Maybe when you are really early in your bitcoin investment journey, you might reject both lump sum and buying on dips, but after you are in bitcoin a year or two, you investment portfolio shows that you have been accumulating a decent amount of BTC (especially relative to when you started), so then you start to consider adding lump sum and/or buying on dips.. and maybe even at some point you might stop with DCA.

On the other hand, you don't necessarily need to start with DCA, you might consider DCA from the start, but you decide to lump sum around 2 years worth of what you would have DCA'ed, and then after a couple of years you would reconsider whether to start to DCA at that time or to buy on dips or to otherwise add to your investment, and surely even if you lump sum a large amount from the start, you are not necessarily precluded from DCA'ing and/or lump summing along the way in the next two years, even if your initial idea was to just sit on your investment for the first two years, but then after some subsequent happenings, and/or maybe even changes in your situation and/or your perspective you decide to change some of your tactics to add in buying on dips and/or DCAing.


I agree that trying makes something more concrete and easier to relate to, but there might be circumstances in which you decide not to try all three, but you just consider all three and perhaps reject one or two based on the then circumstances that you perceive to be relevant and applicable to your situation.


You are making an example of my exact point of considering all three but so far only applying two, and whether or not you ever actually employ buying on dip, that is going to be up to you.. but I would speculate that the longer that any of us is in bitcoin, we likely would end up employing all three techniques, even if we might start with only one at a time, and there might be some folks who start with all three, even though I frequently suggest that DCA is the most superior of all of them for the most people, but each person is not most people and therefore the more that someone is able to study and figure out his/her own particulars, the more reason that s/he might have to deviate from any kind of a strict DCA, even though DCA still might end up being the most superior, even if they might have ended up deciding to employ one or more of the others or emphasizing his/her BTC accumulation strategies in various attempts at creativity.


When it comes to bitcoin, I do believe that a certain amount of action does help to teach, so even if you might have some techniques that emphasize DCA (for example), you might still experiment with some smaller amounts for buying on dips to get used to the idea or how you might put it into practice without hurting your overall goal to accumulate as much BTC as you can, too much.


That is part of the reason why DCA makes sense for so many people, but even low income people might sometimes come across some extra cash, and so even if you are ONLY able to invest $10-15 per week.. because you earn something like $250 to $350 per month, so you are already investing around  12% to 15% of your income into bitcoin and you feel that you might be pushing the matter a bit (presuming that you have an emergency fund of around 3 months or more of $800 or more), then let's say that all of a sudden you receive some kind of a bonus payment or somehow come across $300 extra, so that is like a bonus of a whole months extra pay all of a sudden available to you and that you are able to use it to buy bitcoin or anything that you want, since it is extra cashflow.  You could then divide that into three categories and decide how to employ it as compare to (what you already suggested) it had not previously made sense for you to divide your $10-$15 into either 2 parts or into 3 parts.


I agree that it feels really good to be prepared for such circumstances, because sometimes when we get surprises in life, including extra cashflow, we might not have any kind of plan or we might be so buried in debt and various obligations, or we might even have some fantasy about engaging in some kind of a consumption behavior that may or may not be necessary that we have already spent the extra cashflow by the time the extra cash comes in.


Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Many beginners have a problem in getting started, and getting started is going to help to motivate them to focus their learning because they are also learning through the process of setting up an account and/or figuring out ways to acquire bitcoin and then setting some budgetary ideas in place.  So maybe even if they know that they can afford $100 per week, they start with $10 per week and they study bitcoin while the invest rather than just sitting on the sidelines and following bitcoin, supposedly studying it but never doing anything.  It can take years and years and years to really start to get better ideas about bitcoin, and even if someone studies bitcoin for a long time, there seems to be a never ending list of things to learn, so when you are you going to suggest that any newbie starts to invest into bitcoin if you don't start to get the fuck started right away and work out the details later?

I will admit that there are a likely a very large number of people who have somewhat screwed up finances, but at the same time most people should be able to give you an approximate number for what are their expenses for the month and what is their income, so if they start with those basics, then they will have some ideas regarding whether they are able to afford to buy $100 per week of bitcoin or maybe $10 per week or $1,000 per week, and sure it may well be better to start out with a bit of a smaller number while they are getting their finances and psychology together, and their view on bitcoin as compared to other possible investments is only one of the categories, so sure it could be true that they have hardly any clue about what differentiates bitcoin from other investments,

so maybe they just have to go with their gut feeling from the start and then just invest a small amount, such as $10 per week, even though they are pretty sure that they could affort $100 per week, and when they are low  balling their bitcoin investment, maybe they will become motivated to study bitcoin for the next 1 week to 6 months, and surely the sooner the better if they are able to figure out if they are able to increase their weekly amount, but some peopel are busy and they have to put aside time (and prioritize) if they are going to spend a bit of time figuring out their finances and their psychology in order to figure out if they might be in a position to be able to increase from $10 to $100 and then after they continue to study bitcoin for a while, they might end up putting themselves into a better position in which they are able to increase their cashflow and/or decrease their expenses and maybe go up to more than $100 per week to invest into bitcoin or maybe consider some other strategies that might include lump sum investing, front loading, and/or buying on dips.


How much is necessary to learn in order to get started?  Moar?  More than what?  Why not buy a little while learning?  Wouldn't that help the learning process?


You have been registered on the forum since early 2016. How long did it take before you started to buy bitcoin?  Do you have some kind of a recommended reading list for the newbie? or a test of prerequisite knowledge that some newbie needs to know beyond knowing if they have an extra $10 that they could put into bitcoin while they are learning?  maybe they have to spend a day or two to figure out sourcing and where they are going to hold their BTC to set up bank accounts?   Maybe they have to spend some time learning who in the community is available so that they could do a peer to peer transaction, and which application do they use to first get bitcoin price exposure? 

Can you tell that I am not so excited about your idea of learn first as opposed to the idea of get the fuck started first?.. sure there might be some basics that take a few days to figure out like sourcing of the bitcoin and whether or not they have $10 extra that they can spare to buy some cornz, but still.. what more do they need to know as a prerequisite rather than learning as they go and largely just tempering their conceded lack of knowledge with position size and some deference to their need to figure out some things on their own anyhow or to have some decent resources to study while they are simultaneously getting started. .to the extent that they are not at their work, sleeping, eating or doing other basics because they might need to spend a little bit of time to at least set up some kind of a wallet even if the very first time might be using an exchange.. will it kill them to buy $10 worth of BTC?  I hope not.  Most people should be able to get their finances and psychology together enough to buy $10 worth of BTC otherwise maybe they need to work on increasing their cashflow and/or cutting their expenses, first.. but studying bitcoin at the same time while they are getting their basic financial shit together.

You seem not to really understand my points, I know that learning or rather knowledge is very essential in times of Bitcoin investment especially for those who focus on trading there Bitcoin but however for those whose goals are to invest on Bitcoin with the objective of holding, has know much need to extensively learn about Bitcoin so long as they know how to buy store there bitcoin on a safe wallet.

When I mention that we only need a basic knowledge is that having a basic knowledge about Bitcoin is almost as knowing 50 percent about bitcoin, so which other knowledge do people need to have before they could be satisfied or convinced.

And besides with how popular bitcoin is and how people are trooping in however to some persons that's all they needed to know about bitcoin and so long as they can be able to buy and store there bitcoin on a safe place they are okay, so perhaps in most cases an investment that needs a thorough learning and investigation is an investment we rarely see people investing on.

You probably missing the point of investment if you are investing blindly. Learning more about what you are investing will give you a solid ground as foundation to value your investment more so that you will not be easily shaken on the price action especially when bear market.

Learning more about Bitcoin will make you solid for long term. The one you are pertaining are those buying and easily when there’s price movement because they didn’t know the real value of what they are holding because they purchased without proper knowledge on it.

You have to understand that it is from @JayJuanGee's thread he has a long experience in investing so there is a special thread that he made, I did not introduce but I saw the fourth point from @JayJuanGee it was very interesting, then what is contrary to accumulation / holding? Even though it is clear that analyzing the price of bitcoin is part of our plan to know the future movement of bitcoin? Not only for traders, right? If analyzing it is still reasonable, friend.

I understand what you mean that there is no need to bother analyzing the market but that's part of me wanting to know how then I want to learn it, about investment capital I have said before I have allocated 30% for bitcoin to spend from the monthly salary it is enough capital at this time even some say this capital is too big then I don't mind it if it can still adjust to other expenses.

Actually in as much as I will agree with you on the importance of learning but I will also have to disagree with you on the aspect you mentioned that investment on Bitcoin requires a lot of learning, on the contrary the little I understand from Bitcoin investment is that we don't need too much learning about Bitcoin before we could start investment but however is mostly required to have a basic knowledge about Bitcoin investment after then you can start investing.

Because if serious learning was much involved most beginners would have find it difficult to invest, don't get me wrong because I'm not disputing the fact that learning is not important but the point I'm only trying to state is that Bitcoin doesn't involve much of learning, all you only need is just the basic then you are good to start.

I totally agree with you that it is good to try the three methods than sticking to just one because it will give you the best experience on which you will choose at differs time interval based on the market, and you will also have an advantage to see the benefits or the opposite in using these three methods in combination to accumulate bitcoin. I believe that such person using the three methods of bitcoin accumulation will do better than that investor using only one accumulating strategy in his bitcoin size.

It is good to try all methods since our main focus is on bitcoin accumulation so that you can navigate with the market based on the size of your income and at various level. I have only used two strategy which is my regular monthly DCA and lump sum, but I will try to start keeping any extra cash on me now for the dip, even though I know that the dip might not come soon, but it doesn't stop me from my regular monthly DCA, I am only trying to have more experience on the road to my bitcoin target. I guess that it is better to try than not trying. I am a low income earner and I don't have a huge amount that I can divide into three for buying at the dip, lump sum and DCA, and that is why I have use the gradual saving of extra cash for the dip and if I am privilege to come across a good amount of money that I can use for lump sum, I will but that doesn't mean that I am not on my regular DCA.

Investing in Bitcoin requires a lot of learning about investing. The more we study about investing the easier it seems to me. Studying specific topics is very important It is not just Bitcoin investing that you are asked to study but for every situation that you are in your business or situation that you are in, you have to study a lot. 

I started studying with many people from primary school, after completing primary education, many people announced the end of their education. Those who completed their education in primary were not very focused on education, the next step is school life and there also many dropped out due to inattention to education. However, those who were focused on their studies are still studying and still have a lot of interest in their studies. The few friends we started studying together in primary life, if they were interested in studying or if they were good at studying, but they did not drop out.
It is the same in the case of investment, we can learn as much information as we try to know about investment but if ever investment seems too difficult for us and if we do not show interest to know more about investment then we cannot move forward with investment.

Not everyone likes investing and not everyone who likes investing succeeds in investing. Those who study a lot about investing and who are interested in learning about investing succeed in investing. Investing does not mean that I buy any coin and wait for profit, rather investment means buying a suitable coin with sufficient understanding about investment, trusting that coin and accepting maximum risk and holding that investment in the hope of certain amount of profit. 

It is normal for those who invest in suitable coins for a certain period of time to hold the investment and succeed from their investment.

I am looking to lock in some profit. So I will be selling about 0.1 btc soon

It is good to have real world examples, and sometimes we might consider putting all the money in one category because sometimes it can be complicated to divide whatever we might have into three parts, yet your own situation should help to guide you in terms of what is best for you and your situation (financially and psychologically).   

Merely because we might end up dividing a large amount (an amount that we already decided to dedicate to BTC purchases) into three parts does not even mean that we will conclude to keep those parts equal or that we want to follow through with a strategy regarding all three parts, but the three parts can be areas to consider, and after we employ them into our system, we might end up being content with the results that happen and/or we might end up regretting what we ended up doing, but it is most likely that if we thought through the situation and considered all three options, then at least we will know that we had decided what to do within the various the three options that were available instead of merely rushing into one of the options without even considering the other two options.

You are right @JJG because it was a similar strategy I used a month ago, so actually I had some money on my other bank account and some more money I was expecting from my business including my monthly salary so when I sum up all the money together I was having a good reasonable amount of money. So at first I had to estimate the amount of money that could possibly sustained me and other needs up to two months, so however after all the calculation I was still left with some good amount of money so I wanted to wait for a dip before investing all on Bitcoin but however I became panic  that I could be waiting for the Bitcoin price to dip before buying while the price can continue rising as such I may no longer find that opportunity again, so had to Lump Sum the money.

So however since I'm not expecting too much on this month I had to maintain my normal DCA strategy.