Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 35. (Read 121738 times)

Not all people in developing countries are educated enough, but those who are educated may have invested in Bitcoin. Investing in Bitcoin long-term is very easy if it follows the DCA method, but sustaining the investment in the DCA method is the most challenging. People in your country keep money in bank it is for safety but that money is owned by third party, but the person who invests in Bitcoin owns that money because the control is complete with the person who invests. So all these benefits should reach them, then people will not accept the risk of keeping money in the bank. And all the money they will look for Bitcoin investment method for more security and more small amount of money can be invested these benefits will reach them.

El Salvador, a Middle Eastern country that has become successful with Bitcoin, has made it useful enough to educate everyone on Bitcoin relations in the present day. And teaching in different school institutions to reach every people in their country about this Bitcoin. I like this idea best and it is useful for every person with choice.

This problem is now very common in developing countries where common people do not feel safe keeping money in banks. There are many banks in our country which are waiting to declare themselves bankrupt. There are also many customers who have deposited their entire life money in a single bank that now the bank is not giving them cash and when they ask the bank about this, the bank directly tells them that they have a cash crisis right now. My point is that I put my money in the bank for safety, if I can't withdraw that money from the bank when I need it, then why I put money in this bank. 

Now maybe the customers of these banks are asking themselves this question but they are not getting the correct answer from the bank authority. 
If these customers had invested in bitcoins instead of keeping money in the bank, their profits would have multiplied as well as they could have withdrawn the money whenever they wanted.

The evidence that we have seen from Bitcoin and also from most of the portfolios of Bitcoin Holders who still believe in Bitcoin investment and they are all still quite happy to buy Bitcoin is something that is quite real now. So most people certainly no longer doubt Bitcoin as the best asset for investment and also as a good asset for long-term ownership.

And if there are still people who doubt Bitcoin as the best investment asset, of course he will explain the reasons and it could be that the person just wants to advance another damn coin that he likes himself without seeing the value of Bitcoin itself. So for now there is no particular reason for me to doubt Bitcoin as the king and I also hope that over time Bitcoin lovers will continue to grow and implement buy the dip and hodl.

Traders only focus on seeking short-term profits, so they always apply risk management by setting stop-loss levels, and they also set a portfolio percentage to avoid the risk of loss when the market falls. The balance between risk and profit must be carefully considered is key in trading, which is why you have never seen traders holding large amounts of Bitcoin for years.

The Holders portfolio is proof that Bitcoin is reliable enough for long-term investment, but of course it requires the right strategy. Bitcoin has strong characteristics, which is why it can be used as a safe investment instrument in the long term because it is resistant to shocks amidst sluggish market conditions caused by inflation. Bitcoin's large capitalization is an important indicator in determining the fundamentals of an asset, in this case Bitcoin is the champion. So long-term holders do not easily change their investment plans when a major shock is happening in the market, because they believe, Bitcoin never disappoints them.

It seems to me that trading an asset that is as powerful as bitcoin, there become considerably great risks of selling too much too soon, and that is especially bad if the goal of the trader had been to trade in order to try to increase his bitcoin holdings faster than merely buying bitcoin on a regular basis.  They also likely miscalculate the costs of waiting rather than persistently and consistently accumulating, so even though the DCA buyer might end up with higher costs per BTC based on his consistency, persistency and ongoingness in purchasing bitcoin, he will also likely end up with both more bitcoin and also NOT taking any chances on being out of bitcoin during times in which the BTC price does a step ladder upward move and does not return anywhere close to prior price levels. 

To me, it does not seem to be worth it to be fucking around with bitcoin in those kinds of trader ways, even though surely bitcoin is a more solid asset class, but still should not suggest that it is better to trade merely because it is a more solid asset class. ... but instead bitcoin being a solid asset class likely justifies that guys should not be fucking around and even trying to trade it, especially if they are in their earliest of stages of BTC accumulation and perhaps even if they are in their later stages of BTC accumulation, especially if they perceive themselves to still not have enough BTC.

But yeah traders going to trade and frequently not be able to control themselves in their attempts to improve upon an already great asset class (and investment) - namely bitcoin.

I think this guy meant that Bitcoin has advantages in terms of trading over other cryptocurrencies.
But, I understand your point, in general, trading is really very dangerous, and even if you speculate with Bitcoin in an attempt to guess the price, you can lose your deposit as quickly as on roulette in gambling. And the fact that Bitcoin returned to ATH will not help here. Also, trading and speculating with the first cryptocurrency can make attempts to accumulate Bitcoin fickle, but investing according to DCA has advantages in this.
This method makes the one who wants to accumulate Bitcoin disciplined, despite all the other multiple advantages of this method.

yeah I understand your point or perspective on how it can be difficult to invest agresively without considering our level of disposable income  and we can not also predict our future from the beginning, but firstly before we can invest agresively we should have known the level of our disposable income. my explanation was directing towards a person with a reasonable cashflow and or disposable income that will be capable of investing agresively without being affected in anyways. in the aspect of predicting the future from the present surely to me it really matters as a good investor, you must be able to fosee the future. you know there is a saying that wise people know the end from the beginning. so it's good/important to plan ahead of time. that makes a person to achieve greater things. though it may not really happen accurately as planned due to unforeseen circumstances, but let it be that a positive idea is initiated, as good plans Produces good results.

As a newbie, you lack the knowledge that will guide you in trading, and you will easily sell your bitcoin at a loss if the bitcoin price drops because you cannot control your emotions to hold your bitcoin until it rises back. And you will spend so many months to gain this knowledge, and at the end you will not still be successful in trading. It would be better if you focused all your energy on accumulating bitcoin for the long term and saved yourself from the stress of always reading charts and the emotional damage that comes with trading. When it comes to accumulating bitcoin for the long term, you don't need wide knowledge about bitcoin before you start accumulating it. What should be your concern should be your own finance to know if you will have a discretionary fund that will allow you to invest in bitcoin. As a newbie, it is good to adopt the DCA strategy when accumulating bitcoin because it will allow you to be consistent in accumulating bitcoin even though bitcoin price is increasing or decreasing, which will make you not to wait for bitcoin to dump to a particular price before you can accumulate it.

I am yet to see traders who amasses so much wealth in bitcoin over the years, all I see are investors and not just baby investors, but long-term investors and Hodlers. Funny enough most of them are not even planning on selling off yet, which validates the fact that bitcoin still has lots more potentials to increase very much in value and they believe in it, staking their investments for yet a longer time. I believe it is very pertinent to work with provable statistics which is that bitcoin accumulation is the best shot regardless of the temptations of taking out short term gains.

In response to the bolded text above, I think what I would like to do and what is very reasonable to do is to keep accumulating bitcoin, not wasting unnecessary time and funds on trading so as to increase my chances of getting good profits after a long period of time possibly 10 years or more.

Well one thing is looking at your own historical performance, and another thing is projecting into the future.  If you don't have your exact numbers, you can just look at charts and get estimates, and even when you are dealing with personal details you might be better served to be more precise, including considering putting in your weekly buys or your monthly buys.

When projecting into the future, you don't need to be as precise unless you are trying to account for some specific kinds of things that you are expecting to happen in regards to your own finances or perhaps in regards to bitcoin price expectations.  I frequently proclaim that we should be in a better position to tailorize our own circumstances rather than some of the outside factors such as bitcoin price and macro-economic happenings - yet it is understandable that even our own financial and psychological circumstances might have a decent amount of uncertainties, even though we are in a position to know our health, energy levels, our work skills and marketability, our family and/or business-related expenses.

We can even use some of the DCA threads to calculate average costs per BTC for various periods of time that we input the date.. like this one that shows the average cost per BTC between December 2022 and December 2023.. which I can see that if I invested $5,300 over that time I would have had gotten 0.19596 BTC.. which I can see is an average about $27,046 per BTC (that is $5,300/0.19596).


Of course even if you don't know all of the dates with your own purchases, you can try to figure out the total amount that you spent and the total amount of BTC that you have accumulated, and therefore get your average cost per BTC.  If you do not have very good records, then you can estimate, also this becomes more difficult for traders, and so there can be some value in trying to keep track even though traders (just like gamblers) will sometimes lose track and they may well have to just estimate how much they put in from the start of the period until the end of the period and try to figure out how many BTC that they had at the end of the period.

You saw with my earlier table that I had anticipated and increase of 10% per year in the amount of the discretionary income that could be spent on BTC DCAing, and at the same time, my anticipated price changes per year were somewhat estimations based on past BTC price performance, yet I was still trying to make them a bit more modest in regards to the anticipated extremes, so there could  be some value in regards to trying to create a more likely scenario and then making one or two scenarios on each side.  Once you start making scenarios you might not know when to stop, yet they are likely not going to make as much sense if you try to get too extreme with the scenarios, so you may well naturally gravitate towards the center or maybe you might want to become a bit more hopefully by preferring a bit more of a bullish scenario.. yet you will also likely see that the more bullish the scenarios, then the fewer BTC (satoshis) that you are going to be able to accumulate.


Yeah.  If there is no increase in income, then all that you have left is to decrease your expenses, and sometimes it is NOT practical to further decrease expenses.  And surely there have already been a lot of guys who have been complaining about expenses increasing more than they are able to increase their income, so if that is the case, then there would be a lot of pressure on the ability to even continue the DCA amount at the same rate without reducing the amount.


I thought that the important point is trying to establish realistic goals - goals that are within your ability to achieve.  If you create unrealistic goals then you are likely going to underperform and disappoint yourself.   Sure there is value in terms of being consistent and persistent, especially if you might place the accumulation of bitcoin on a relatively high prioirity level.


Many of us likely realize that the dollar (and other fiat) is going to continue to debase, yet surely there are some folks who might not get pay increases that are comparable to the debasement of the dollar/fiat, and surely some guys might be able to seek employment with higher pay, yet surely some guys might not be able to achieve those kinds of goals, so if they are not able to increase the amount that they put into bitcoin each year by the amounts that I showed, then they have to figure out more realistic numbers that better anticipate (predict) their own circumstances, and the numbers should be realistic in the sense of making goals that are achievable.   It does not seem to be a very good motivator if you are setting goals that you are not able to achieve, and to me it seems way better to be setting goals that you can realistically achieve, even if there might be aspects of the goals that are quite challenging, but it still seems better to set goals that are achieveble rather than not and perhaps also attempt to exceed the goals, while keeping in mind that it is o.k. if you do not end up exceeding your goals.

To hold for future in long term you must accept target, only success is possible by adopting target. Whenever you start depositing bitcoins you instantly target depositing 1 bitcoin. And if you want to save for future then definitely take second target, where your bitcoins will be more than one and it will be easy for you to deposit 2 or 3 bitcoins because you are successful in depositing bitcoins for the first time. 
Because you will instantly become old when you pass from the present to the future, you will fail to earn money when you need money after getting old. This bitcoin will help you the most in those bad times, in that you are successful in depositing bitcoins and you can receive your bonus money.

As time goes by I have almost reached 2 years or only need one more Quartel to be exactly 2 years that I have been through with bitcoin accumulation with DCA. Apart from that, it is true as you said that the price problem is getting high and getting higher in this two-year period. Since it dropped to $15k, that's when I started investing in Bitcoin with DCA. To sort the table, it might take me a day to compile the average entry per year that I have passed.

The adjustment of entry price certainly varies because DCA does not looking a price when the purchase period is due. but that's not a problem because I still follow up on it until I am satisfied with my btc ownership. So far there has been no increase that I have made, meaning to increase the purchase budget in the second year, as in the table you have shared. Especially in my principle, where I still like to maintain a more stable purchase cash flow standard because in terms of income there is no increase.

So, the important point that I take from the table you shared is of course our consistency in buying bitcoin. Starting from $71 to $152 for the next 8 years is something that might be quite good to implement if only we were supported by increasing income every year.

I see what you are saying, and I don't even disagree with you.  However part of the problem is that I am attempting to mostly presume that the increase in later years is not due to lack of aggressiveness or willpower, but instead due to being as aggressive as he can be and ONLY being able to increase with the passage of time based on either increasing income or decreasing expenses due to ongoing fruther practicalities rather than due to the guy being whimpy.

Sure there are some folks who are whimpy too, yet I was not necessarily presuming that the lack of greater amounts in the earlier years was due to such whimpiness.

And, surely any of us can attempt to make bitcoin investment projections that are as aggressive as we can make them in regards to attempting to frontload our investment into bitcoin, yet we can ONLY be so aggressive before we might devolve into gambling and/or devolve into putting too much of our finances at risk due to our inclination to want to frontload our investment, and then we end up with less bitcoin than we could have had based on our becoming overly aggressive and recking ourselves partially or totally.


I think that you are missing something in regards to the ongoing debasement of the dollar is going to continue to cause us to have more dollars.. and surely, I am not opposed to the idea of being as aggressive as we are able to be, including in the beginning and perhaps even engaging in a reasonable amount of leveraging... but we still have limitations in regards to how much disposable income that we have at any given time, and we cannot presume our future earnings into the present.. and yeah, it well could end up being true that we front load our investment into BTC and the BTC price shoots way up and the BTC price never comes back down to its earlier price possibilities.. so surely I am not discounting those kinds of possibilities. which further justifies any attempts that can be made towards frontloading the BTC investment as much as reasonable..


I think that your quotes are messed up.  You quoted me, and then you quoted someone else, but you did not say who.. so the reader is supposed to try to figure that out?

Regarding your comment on my chart, I already mentioned it is possible to create a variety of scenarios, including negative scenarios so that if BTC outpaces your negative scenarios you would still be happy.  I have no problem with that. 

I recall that when I started many of my base case scenario predictions dealt with a 6% per year increase in the bitcoin price, and so surely after a few years, BTC prices way outstripped my base case projections, but still ended up falling into some of my more pie in the sky projections.. so sometimes even way outperformance can leave us not sure about what to do if we have not adequately prepared financially and/or psychologically for the some variation of the scenario that ends up playing out.


First, reading 568 pages of thread seems like a lot of time, and hopefully they start investing before they get too caught up in preparing and studying and failing/refusing to actually buy some BTC.

Second, it seems that DCA does not really eliminate risk, but instead allows us to tailor our BTC  investment amount to our own cashflow situation (including making sure that we stay within our discretionary income).


Even if bitcoin is tradable, it does not mean that you should trade it, especially since it amongst the best of investment assets ever known to mankind (if not the best), so why would you want to trade something that is already a good investment?

Think about if your goal is to build wealth, and if you want to accumulate BTC in order to accumulate wealth, then why would you sell BTC in order to accumulate it?  Hardly makes any sense, unless you are selling because you believe that you can buy back cheaper.. .. but why would you take such chances if your overall goal might be to accumulate more BTC?  Seems to me that those who sell BTC with an expectation of buying back cheaper are lacking in focus and perhaps more greedy than they need to be in terms of complicating their own finances and psychology merely because they think that they are smarter than the market.. or they can see where the BTC price is going in the short-to-medium term. .which may or may not even work out  for them.

Sure, you can do whatever you like, it is a free world the last time I checked.. .. at least when it comes to your selling your BTC.. you are free to go down such path if you believe that you can beat the BTC accumulator and HODLer.. especially when considering longer timeframes of 6-12 years or longer..  Seems to me that if you are fucking around with trading, then sooner or later your luck is going to run out and you would have had been way better off just focusing yourself rather than fucking around trying to time a dip that might not end up happening... and you end up with way fewer BTC than you could have had and way more stress and wasted time and energies at the same time..

I only corrected the person how altcoins are very volatile and risky. I know all what you are talking about.

Then what is bitcoin if it is not tradable? You can hold bitcoin and you can trade it at anytime you want.

I understand the point you are trying to make but volatility of bitcoin has nothing to do with an accumulator because his goal is focus on having a big bag of bitcoin in his possession so whether the price of bitcoin skyrockets or falls it's not a concern to him at all. For me, someone with 8 year plan of accumulation seems too sudden unless for someone who would just want to recap and analyze his progress within that interval of time and not give that time frame just because of the idea they can sell by then. There's no need for aggressive accumulation if your cash flow increases, perhaps you can just increase your DCA amount a little then the remaining funds can be added to your reserved funds, the need for this is so that in a case of DIP you can acquire more bitcoins with your reserved funds. Someone who has a time frame target of their investment should be able to know how to apply various strategies when the need arises so that they don't miss some opportunities that may come along line.

When we are talking about Bitcoin it should be Bitcoin long term investment and not some trading stuff as Bitcoin is never a tradable coin.
It could be misleading when you say Bitcoin is better when trade, Bitcoin shouldn't be trade but invest for a long time purpose, with the DCA strategy of accumulating Bitcoin an investor can buy small small either weekly or monthly and hodl for a longer time and not to trade for a short time interval, an investor who accumulate Bitcoin and HODL for 4-10 years and above will definitely not regret trading or selling out his Bitcoin in a short while, as an investor our mindset should always be accumulate more Bitcoin and HODL for the future.

Btcalysis, this is no a trading thread and there is a trading section in this forum where you can discuss about trading. Trading mindset is not an ideal way for a new investor to start with bitcoin because you will end up wasting time and resources which at the end will bring regrets and frustration after running at big loss.

It is good that a new investor should not think about trading his bitcoin but to invest in a long term and hodli so that he will have enough time to buy more bitcoin regularly and build his bitcoin portfolio overtime. What will you benefit as a trader in future, excess losses if you don't stop trading. Investing in bitcoin for long will make you have a good size of bitcoin in future when bitcoin will be very expensive and that will make you proud that you didn't gamble away the resources that you had when you were younger by trading.

Invest, build and increase your stash for 4-10 years and above so that you can save your funds in bitcoin because inflation increases overtime and bitcoin is a hedge to inflation in order for you the keep the value of your funds and have an additional benefits for saving in bitcoin by enjoying the profit from your bitcoin investments, instead of buying an selling to buy back again. Is this what you will also be doing at old age when you will not have time to look at the market and it can lead you to early death if you try to trade when you are old.

But the bitcoin investor who is use to building, growing and hodli his investment will find it very easy to keep on hodli even at hold age because it does not need and professional act or stressful neither will it mess with your emotions. Start investing today and save your future so that you don't suffer at old age.

Trading is generally risky but bitcoin trading is better. Altcoins are easily manipulated. Let me show an example

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/10/09/iWDSJ.png

See how this coin was manipulated since 3 days ago.

The explanation JJG  gave is very helpful when it comes to planning for the long term especially with investment like bitcoin being flexible with your budget is essential.

In situation where your disposable income decreases you have to understand where you stand and plan according to your present situation by making adjustments that balances with your financial state at that moment. It always advisable,  Whenever  we we are earning higher or more we should always plan for situation like this,  by having a backup plan ( emergency funds) if such scenario occurs. Incase you find yourself in such scenario prioritize essential needs like food, housing and other utilities will be helpful and cutbyour expenses  in other to keep your investmentgoing. Look for temporary work or side hustle to earn, this can help maintain cash flow at time like this, it will help you  stay on track with your investment target if you really value building your holdings.

What provably they know is bitcoin is all about buying and selling. They didn't bother to know other possibilities that could able to give them huge chance to gain from bitcoin if they just use the best strategy and choices towards on how they deal with their bitcoin.

If they think about trading and gambling would give profits easily sooner or later they would realize that its hard to gain consistently especially that market changes so fast and there's no assurance on every bets they made on certain games or situation around. Most likely they would face a lot of losses especially if they do bad decisions towards their trading and gambling activities.

To bad for others that they realize late that holding is more better so hopefully some other people who want to start up will just find good advices then select long term investment with bitcoin rather than wasting their money and energy on gambling and trading.