Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 355. (Read 108517 times)

No, my point in this is that we don't have to hate fiat and not be in it because we still need it for our daily needs and indeed until now I still have a dependency on fiat (to support my daily life) so there is no need to feel that fiat is a mistake and btc is right because at the end of the day their concepts are opposite but it's not a search about the truth because I think both are right but their functions are different for me.
Bitcoin I use as an investment tool for my future but fiat I use to support today's needs. As long as both are still useful then I will continue to use both so there is no concept of wrong and right between bitcoin and fiat and they are also made not to blame each other.


This is a good point and I like the addition that you gave and thank you for this because I will probably add this also as a strategy that I do for my support when investing because what you said makes a lot of sense and I can still do it.
Because indeed I still feel for now rather than we force trying to buy too high but instead it interferes with other needs it will actually make ourselves not be optimal and will actually mess up the initial plan so it doesn't matter if the DCA is lowered a little like 10-20 percent but it can guarantee you are able to do it well rather than forcing the will with 30 percent as a benchmark but instead it ruins the scheme that you will make for the future.

You are correct but perhaps having a note to take down the date which you intend to regularly accumulate may not really be necessary because so long as investment on Bitcoin is concerned there is every tendency that the possibility of always meeting up with your weekly accumulation process may be hampered based on other urgent needs, so in that case as a good investor you should be able adjust your investment levels the way it will suit your accumulation at that moment.

So perhaps in that scenario if your accumulation patterns are on weekly basis you could adjust it by making it two weeks instead of weekly in other to sorts out the urgent needs and before you could go back to the normal weekly accumulation.

I know that what gives you the courage and confidence not to worry about your crypto investment is that you invested in bitcoin, not an altcoin. If you have invested in altcoin, you will know that altcoin investments are not good to be held for so long in bad market conditions without making haste to sell them off asap because of loss of profits.

Needless to this, it is good that many crypto investors have known that the best investment one could have is bitcoin. Having it as a long-term investment plan gives them profits. Whether the price of bitcoin declines badly in price, it will surely increase back in price with time. It is all about them being able to hodl it safely in their portfolio and not on exchange. Every other price decrease in bitcoin will be a thing of the past once the bull run kicks in

Mate what are you waiting for that you have not started your bitcoin journey? Are you waiting to have big finds before you will invest in bitcoin. NO, you can invest with any amount of money for as low as the amount you can afford to buy as long as that will not affect your monthly expenses. Don't let this opportunity pass you buy because you will regret that you didn't start now when the time comes. Bitcoin price is still at the favorable time for newbies to buy and set aside a certain amount that they can use to DCA regularly to increase their bitcoin portfolio, since you have just few sats in your bitcoin portfolio. As you can see that bitcoin price is going high and we are also expecting the halving so it is better you start now that waiting because nobody knows the next price that we will see. Procastination is a delay to success and not an excusing for missing out this great opportunity. It is only if you don't believe in bitcoin that you will have a meaningless reason for not investing now. If you don't have a job because it is needful to invest in bitcoin, get a job and if your income is little that you cannot invest from it, then look for another means of income. Who knows if your bitcoin investment will be a game changer for you in future.

A newbie should not only invest now and hodli but to also thinking of how they can make plans on how much they will be using to buy bitcoin regularly, maybe weekly, monthly, or quarterly through DCA because you are a low coiner, so that in 4-10yrs time they will be able to have a goof amount of bitcoin in their portfolio. This is because investment should keep on growing in size and in value to show that there is progress in that investment. If your bitcoin portfolio is stagnant, it means that you will not benefit from it that much even though bitcoin price hits 100k. This is because the profit from your bitcoin investment will be directly proportional to the size of your bitcoin portfolio with timeline and vice versa.

I don't see bitcoin price speculation as a problem for a newbie who has set a long term goal for himself and has a bitcoin target that he needs to reach. This is because the basic knowledge of bitcoin says invest in a long term goal to lower the risk of short term and be safe from worries of bitcoin price fluctuation. It is only a newbie that has the plan to invest in a short term that can get himself distracted with bitcoin price speculation and get himself stuck at the middle and either ends up missing out of using DCA strategy to increase his bitcoin or will make wrong decisions that will cost him a lot. DCA has solved the problem of price speculations and discouragementt and fears if you are in a long term investment

I think you are comparing two performances carried out by investors where they exercise options for the short term and for the long term and make repurchases when they make the decision to sell some of their holdings. This is of course a part of investment that may be implemented by large investors where they play scenarios at two levels for the short term and the long term. But for beginners like us, of course, with relatively small capital, it is better for us to choose the long-term option and accumulate Bitcoin gradually.

I think we need to maintain a balance in our investments, I mean if we have the intention to buy regularly then make a special note for each purchasing period so that we don't miss it. Because balance in making purchases will make the planning we do run successfully until the target we want is achieved.

It is natural that not all investors will hold their investments up front but it is also true that not all investors will sell their investments up front. The market is in a good condition now and in such a condition some investors will sell their investments because they have noticed bad market conditions in the past and they may not be brave enough to hold on to their investments. You can be sure that those who are not brave enough to hold on to their investments now and those who sell their investments now will regret selling their investments at some point. I have a lot of faith in the Bitcoin market and that faith gives me so much courage. 

To be honest, if the Bitcoin market goes down a lot now, I won't think for a second why I didn't sell my investment because I'm used to it. Since I have developed a confidence in holding my investment deeply and since I am not very excited about market changes, I am sure and confident in myself that I can hold 100% of the investment even in the current market conditions.

The Bitcoin market moved around $38K today but from there the market has rebounded to around $36.5K. The market has changed so much in such a short period of time that many may have started thinking that they should have sold their investments at that time. People with such ideas will be more worry free when selling their investments. I think people who overthink their investments should sell their investments because overthinking is harmful to one's health. I will sell my investments at market highs and wait as long as I have to.

Yeah I agree with you that speculation is one of the major challenges most Bigginers normally face due to lack of much knowledge about it but however as a newbie who has a basic knowledge about Bitcoin and from those knowledge he discovered the potential of Bitcoin and as such decided to take part on investing on Bitcoin with the belief of holding the Bitcoin for years, so perhaps as a newbie or regular investors I see no reason why speculation could affect your investment decisions which your intention is buying and holding for long time, so speculation or not shouldn't be your concern because you have an investment goal to achieve.

So perhaps is only people or newbies whom there main intentions is to buy the dip and sell when the price increases so those are the sets of investor that normally got influenced by speculation.

To those of us who say we are waiting for opportunities to invest, I want to say that we are missing opportunities every moment. We take it one day at a time and miss one opportunity at a time. We will actually think that this is the best time to invest at what point is the price of Bitcoin? Those who wait for time and don't invest may not know themselves which is the best time to invest. I'm sure those who are biding their time are waiting for the bitcoin market to reach $30k ie they will invest when the bitcoin price reaches $30k. They only think that they will invest 30000 dollars, but when the market comes to 30000 dollars, they will wait for it to come down a little more. If the market goes down again, they will come down a little more, so they can't invest. 

We have seen the Bitcoin market hovering at $35,000 for a few days, but those who were planning to buy dips would have seen something positive at the beginning of their investment if they had invested in Bitcoin when it was at $35,000.

Perhaps the market is now at 38 thousand dollars, those who are new investors and plan to hold for a long time will not be impatient, you can invest from 38 thousand dollars if you want. Two to three thousand dollars isn't much of a difference to the amount of profit you're likely to make on your investment if you invest now and hold it for a long time. Invest now and try to hold onto that investment deeply. Overcoming hundreds of hurdles, when you keep this investment for a long time, you will not regret but will be much more excited about your investment.

I think that it is difficult to proclaim what people should do merely based on expectations of BTC price performance, especially if they had been in bitcoin for a longer period of time, then they may well have already set up some practices and/or parameters for selling their BTC, so largely both of us are attempting to respond to a longer-term scenario where kingvirtus09 had presented a somewhat vague scenario in which s/he seemed to be suggesting that a longer term BTC holder might have had sold many or most of his/her BTC during various past BTC price upswings, and I was merely off-setting such proclamation in a way to suggest that there could be scenarios that a longer term BTC holder might just be selling BTC at any price and at various points of BTC price appreciation with ONLY small attention to the extent to whether we might be in a bull market or a bear market, but at the same time, personally, I am with the idea of selling on the way up rather than either selling on the way down or even overly selling BTC with expectations of abilities to be able to buy back.

At the same time, anyone could get into areas of mistakes with his/her BTC portfolio management and end up feeling needs to sell more BTC at various points in time based on some consumption/investment needs .. but then if someone may well have had entered into BTC in 2011 or 2012 (and purchased thousands of bitcoin during that time), there should be a lot of ways to mostly emphasize accumulating and HODLing but still be able to sell BTC at various points in time, to profit stupendously and without overly selling such BTC so that by now, such person may well still be able to have 60% or more of his/her original holdings and still be rich in terms of BTC and/or in terms of fiat... even if such same person might not have had been very rich when coming into BTC.. and maybe even having an initial BTC investment that was below $10k during the period that more aggressive BTC accumulation was happening.. and in this case considering the 2011/2012 time period as the entry period.


I getting concerned about getting too deeply into BTC portfolio management theories that involve selling, but surely several times, I had already mentioned concerns about guys selling any of their BTC with expectations of buying back lower rather than when they might be selling BTC at various points along the way in order to take profits and/or surely to potentially set up a kind of insurance fund that does not presume any abilities to buy back lower.

In other words, sometimes some of us have options to go either way when there is some kind of a price peak that brings out investment up 6x to 10x to 20x depending upon when and how such price appreciations might be measured.  There is no real correct answer exactly, but there still can be ideas of not selling too much whether you are in early BTC accumulation stages, mid BTC accumulation stages or even late BTC accumulation stages, so part of the difficulty of selling prior to reaching your BTC accumulation target is because you likely are going to feel like you are spinning your wheels if you sell some but then at the same time you are continuing to buy and there is really no way to have high levels of confidence that merely because you sell on the way up that the BTC price might not continue to go up and then you are stuck in a kind of dilemma of buying higher than the price that you sold.. which might not be completely wrong, but it puts the BTC accumulator in a kind of psychological and financial dilemma that is way less pure than a BTC accumulation strategy that mainly just focused ongoingly on BTC accumulation until reaching levels of BTC accumulation that are perceived to be near, at or exceeding personal BTC accumulation target levels.


I cannot recall if previously you had disclosed some of your personal details in regards to your BTC accumulation timeline, but even if we go by your forum registration date as a ballpark idea, by the time 2021 was coming you would have barely been entering into being in BTC for one whole cycle, so on the surface it is difficult to presume that you would have been in a position to be fucking around with selling.. unless you had front loaded your investment quite a bit in the earlier years  or maybe in the 2018-2020 period, but many times people neither have those kinds of lump sums to be able to invest and frequently, even if they may well happen to have decently lump sums that they are able to invest (or variations of being able to front load their BTC investment), they still may have psychological difficulties to put a lot (or to overdo their BTC investment) all at once in order to then be in a position in which they are benefitted by shaving off some of that overdoing on the way up.. and yeah, I know it starts to sound as if I am getting too much into talking about trading, but there still can be ways of considering BTC accumulation that does result in a kind of front running of the BTC investment and overly accumulating to have more liberties to shave off some BTC mostly based on being overly extended.. which also ends up being more of a kind of gambling with your BTC holdings, but it still does emphasize buying techniques in the spirit of their thread.. and I think NOT really considering trading, even though surely I might be starting to split hairs in the way that I am attempting to present these ideas.


If this is not positive, I don't know what is.  We have seen bitcoin go into this kind of punishing mode (a kind of ongoing UPpity) without any meaningful correction for a long time, which is largely punishing the shorters, the shitcoin pumpeners, the bitcoin naysayers and the no coiners, low coiners and fence sitters.  Sucks to be anyone in those categories who had largely failed/refused to sufficiently and/or adequately prepare themselves (especially their finances, but still some psychological components) for UP.


That is a bit vague, but I believe that I understand what you are talking about, including that you have a kind of timeline target rather than a specific price target, yet sometimes bitcoin could end up changing some of your timeline targets, so let's say for example, you got into bitcoin in your late 20s, so now you are in your early 30s, so were considering that you want to retire around the age of 55, but if things were to go really well, you would just retire early in your early 50s or in your late 40s, so the more that you change the dates, and the earlier you decide to retire, then the more that you have to make sure that your finances, including but not limited to your BTC investment is in a solid place.  I surely believe it is possible to make these kinds of plans that include attempts at a base case scenario (a scenario that you consider to be the most likely to play out) but also attempting to account for potential better case scenarios and worser case scenarios in order that you are prepared for if your base case does not exactly play out but things go better or worse than your base case scenario.  And for sure, you are not locked into your base case scenario, because your base case scenario changes with the passage of events.. it would be foolish and likely short-sighted to stick with a base case scenario that does not adapt with actual world happenings.. so if after 1-5 years at various points you are reassessing the progress of your plans, you may end up having to tweak at various points from time to time in an attempt to adequately account for where you are at versus where you might have had expected that you would be, and surely there will be movement in both directions, but frequently there may be a bit of boredom in such assessments because maybe you are largely within a 10% or so range - either direction of your base case scenario, so no real and/or meaningful tweaks need to be made during those assessment timelines.


Yeah, but right around a month ago, when we were in the $25ks and $26ks, you were proclaiming that it was a good idea to wait for a dip and you were even getting quite pushy about your level of confidence.. so surely you might have had been doing the right thing for your own personal situation - especially since you been in bitcoin for more than 7 years now, but surely not a good position for someone into bitcoin only a few years and who may well be in his/her earlier accumulation stages.. hopefully not too many low coiners and/or no coiners who are active in this thread got screwed too much by waiting for such dips that seem like they are not going to happen, especially since we are now in the ballpark of $12k up from those earlier price points (within the last hour current prices have touched upon $37,750) .. and we could even experience more UPpity from here, prior to any correction..


If you been in bitcoin for a while, then you have the luxuries of adjusting your DCA in the ways that you suggest, but if you are brand new to BTC, you may well need to accumulate BTC at whatever price exists and be prepared to ride out the waves for several years before your BTC are in profits.. one of the difficulties of new entrants into the BTC market, they likely need to get the fuck started, even if the BTC price might be up, or on the way up, because there are no real ways to know, but there still can be ways of attempting to be more conservative on DCA amounts when the BTC price has ripped a lot in recent times, and so some common sense could be attempted to be applied, but people getting into bitcoin during ripping periods are left with pretty BIG ASS dilemmas, especially since we can never really know whether the BTC price will correct, even if it had previously gone up seemingly very large amounts.

The choice to buy is made based on an individual conviction and mindset, and not based on Bitcoin price, because the price you think is high may be a low price to the other person and for that, he prefers to buy at that price in other not to miss out of the present market sentiment,  so bitcoin accumulation is a sentimental journey so for that, i won't make any assumption on why some bitcoin investors choose to buy more Bitcoin when the price is already making it way to the top, and no trend last forever so if the investor dims it fit to buy into Bitcoin at that price so be it.


But as a knowledgeable investor who may have had long-term experience in the market,  it will be a wise DCA approach to accumulate more bitcoin only when the price is at the discounted level and to avoid DCA when the price is high because a high price should be best used for cashing out profits, and not to open any buy position.

I believe both DCA and waiting for a DIP/discount are good for HODLers, but my preference goes to waiting for a DIP/discount because, personally, it's more important for me to buy as much Satoshis for my fiat. Currently, someone could average a profit if a person bought from ATH during 2021 up to today for $10.00 DCA everyday. That's definitely good if the person wants to count how much his/her Bitcoins are in Dollars first and in Satoshis second.

You are correct because there are no reasons to wait for the dip because a lot of weeks or months might pass and Bitcoin might not dip and one can use the money he/she was planning to buy the dip when it dipped to do something else. Most times when Bitcoin dips, those that are waiting for the dip might not even have the money to buy it anymore, rather than waiting till they have the money, but nevertheless, the dip will not wait for such a person, because Bitcoin has a destination that it is heading to, so the best strategy is DCA and not waiting for the dip.

If there was no bad moments then there will also be no good mommets too, Bitcoin has been in a lower range of 25k-27k in the past 2 months but this season Bitcoin is gain more weight in price and it is true that now is not a good time for someone to put selling his bitcoin in his minds, holding Bitcoin and accumulating for more is the best idea someone should try to keep up, even if someone is trying to sell little of his holdings, it is also a bad idea because what he/she might sell today might become a very big price tomorrow.
I would love to be like you when I start to invest and accumulate Bitcoin, with this story if yours, I can do more like you did if inventually Bitcoin rise till such extents and still decrease to 17k or more, however, it is not everyone that can be comfortable with such a lose but you did and this shows how dearly you believe in Bitcoin.

Yes it is a good thing to invest, I will take courage like you and invest too, maybe from now on till the whole of next year there will be a good surprise from Bitcoin price all through, I have never invest before in Bitcoin but I have tried many other investments like real estate business and I could say it is a bit interesting investment,, so I want to try out Bitcoin investment too and if it gives me what I wanted or not I will still continue because I believe that every investments has advantage and disadvantages.

Mearly hearing the tons of BTC people accumulated when BTC price was nothing compared to now, it just like accumulating Bitcoin now is just a play but never the less we keep pushing.

Sometimes I wonder why Laszlo Hanyecz has not yet file a lawsuit against Jeremy Sturdivant for buying two papa John's Pizza with 10,000 bitcoins (BTC) that was an act of ignorance. I don't even know if they did hold there Bitcoin up til date though it really funny but sad Truth.

It will definitely not let you down. Continue holding. but my sudjestion is that since bitcoin has fall from the ATH to this point.  you should even buy more now sothat when it goes back to ATH or more you will recover what you might have lost then.


 

If we can hold on to Bitcoin during the bad times of Bitcoin, then why should we be in a rush to sell our Bitcoins now?  Now there is no question of selling bitcoins. I think now is the best time to hold bitcoins instead of selling them. For those who think they should sell half a percent or one-third of their total investment, I would say since you have been patient for so long, you should be patient some more because holding this will do an investor a lot of good in the future.

I hold bitcoin so deeply I could have sold my investment when bitcoin went to $65k if I wanted to but I'm waiting for better times. I may have felt a little bad when the market fell from $65k to $17k, but my bad feeling didn't work when I comforted myself with the hope of better things to come.  I deeply hold my investment and will continue to do so surely this investment will never let me down. 

All of a sudden the Bitcoin market is from $25000 to $36000 so at this time many people are confused to invest again but at this time I am investing again. Whenever I have money I invest it in Bitcoin instead of spending it on other things and increasing my investment. The market movement seems positive to me although it is uncertain which direction the market will go but I am waiting for a positive change in the market.
I will definitely hold my investment deep till the time I plan to hold it deep. No matter how much the price of Bitcoin goes down or up during this period but I will not sell my investment, I will sell my investment at the end of the specified period.

The market is now bullish so many may be encouraged to invest in Bitcoin. But the lesson we get in this thread is that it should not be used as a tool for temporary gain. Bitcoin may go up for a while but there is no guarantee that it won't go down again. An investor should have a long-term plan when investing in Bitcoin to avoid short-term volatility. Moreover, long-term investment has the highest investment potential from Bitcoin.

It is definitely a good decision if you start accumulating bitcoins at this point , there is a higher chance of making profit. Since Bitcoin is a good medium for long-term investment, DCA is definitely a better decision to accumulate Bitcoins for the long-term which can be more effective in growing your portfolio.

That can't be removed from those that are planning to buy. All they think is to buy at a low price and when it seems to be currently high for them, they'll complain and won't do actions at all.

It is the best strategy for the most holders, we've got end game plans, we've got long term plans and as well as short term plans. But for the short term, IMHO they're more risky because you'll never know how high it can go.

Whilst for the earlier sold Bitcoins you've done, a regret shall come to you when something happens like it is now - skyrocketing.

I doubt it is a great idea to fantasize cashing out of all of your BTC, because even if someone were to have had accumulated thousands of BTC in earlier days (let's say 2011 or 2012) for relatively low prices, s/he could still cash out fractions of his/her holdings at various UPpity price points, and still feel quite well and in a good financial and/or psychological place and still perhaps have a lot of his/her BTC stash.. maybe even have 60% or more of the original amounts.. so there really should not be any needs to cash out high portions of a person's BTC stash, especially if s/he had either bought a lot of BTC in earlier days or just had been building up a lot of BTC over time.


You seem to be presuming that the BTC price is going to go down, merely because it has gone up, but that may well be a pretty BIG ASS presumption.

Sure, if you had already been buying BTC for the last year and a half or so, then you have no problems, but part of the problem might be for anyone who just got into bitcoin this calendar year, they may well have not have had enough time to stack as many sats as they would have had preferred... and so those people who may well perceive themselves as low coiners because they ONLY recently started buying BTC, then they are left with a bit of a dilemma regarding how to buy as the BTC price is going up and/or whether to potentially hold back some value to buy if the BTC price dips, but sometimes the BTC price goes on an upwards streak for an extended period of time, and does not dip back to earlier prices, and those people who did not get in are not able to buy at those earlier prices... and we can never know for sure when those price points are going to occur, but we can look back at bitcoin's history and we can see some times in which the BTC price had crossed over some price points and never returned back down to those then lower levels..


That sounds right.. but still you can likely understand and appreciate how newbies can feel dilemmas about these kind of UPpity price moves.


There are no needs to disclose, but there are surely guys/gals with more than 50 BTC, and guys/gals with more than 100 BTC, 500 BTC and various other higher amounts, and even the one with 50BTC or more should be in a pretty decent place financially and psychologically.


Yep.  Surely in recent times we may have gotten greedy and maybe we want to get multiples of returns over cycle, and I had  already stated that in 2013, I would have had been largely happy with averaging 6% per year, but in recent times, even after March 2020, many of us might come to realize that 6% per year might not be enough, but we still might feel that we can be content with averaging returns oif something like 10% to 12% per year... so anything higher than that seems to be icing on the cake... and so we will see how the averages play out in the coming years.  Surely 2022 did bring BTC prices down quite a bit, and 2023, is now starting to turn out as a pretty good year, so far, and so it frequently is nice to have some cushions from the bottom, even though I might not be quite comfortable with proclaiming that sub $30k is over and/or out of the picture, but I am getting more confident to consider possibilities that sub $20k is over and/or out of the picture... It can take a bit of time to really start to feel comfortable about UPpity price moves, because frequently we will end up getting 20% to 40% price corrections, even while the BTC price is mostly going up.  It is difficult to pre-judge, but not necessarily so difficult for some of us who might have been spending quite a bit of time preparing for UP in the past year or even a bit longer than that.


It can be amazing.  If you look at the charts for early 2019, we got 3.5X in 3 months, but a lot of those profits were given back, and they did not really get locked in until late 2020... so even great profits might sometimes continue to be subjected to high stress and/or even tricking us to sell too much too soon because we get nervouse when we might go through some of the seemingly inevitable large price waves.


Yeah, but we are not talking about the "crypto market" in this thread.  We are talking about bitcoin.  Why should we give any shits about the "crypto market," unless you meant to say bitcoin and you just misspoke.   It sounds pretty dumb to suggest that there is some kind of a crypto market out there, as if bitcoin were following the price of some shitcoins.. when in fact it should be understood that the dog wags the tail and not the other way around, and in this case, bitcoin happens to be the dog, if you had not noticed and/or understood about that.


We are also not talking about selling and/or trading in this thread.  Are you sure that you are not lost JoyMarsha.

The price of Bitcoin is only going up immediately so holders who hold Bitcoin early on are currently the most profitable. This is the main result of long-term investment, so if you can invest in Bitcoin now, Bitcoin halving is definitely ahead. Bitcoin halving is a four-year cycle in which the price of Bitcoin increases dramatically every four years.



Quickly those who want to invest in Bitcoin should start investing in Bitcoin very quickly. If you can hold Bitcoin till 2024-25 then there is definitely a big bull market. And this bull market is very likely to see the highest Bitcoin price increase. So if you want to invest for a longer term, you can definitely invest in DCA method and become self-sufficient.

Overtime, one of the major challenges an investor encounters is fear, because as the price of bitcoin is becoming high and due to it volatility changes are meant to occur by either dipping on increasing so the challenge that a beginner faces is the fear that they might buy bitcoin at a high price and peradventure it dips so the fear of dipping after the have bought it in high price can't be overestimated.



Similarly, another challenge of buying and HODLING is speculation as due to the fact that a lot of experts are making predictions of the price falling due to unforseen circumstances might make a beginner to pause before accumulating and it the quest of waiting for the the price to dip it now increases instead, so no matter the price of bitcoin as a beginner what you need do is keep buying and hodling and possibly apply the use of the dca method.


That's the more reason we need to keep buying and hodling even if it doesn't dip as the future of bitcoin is unpredictable, it might really keep increasing like looking back from January when the price was around $20,000 and now that the price is around $36,468.10USD so you can speculate the price in 3-5 years and see the growth.