Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 376. (Read 123464 times)

Not all investors sell their investments at a loss, but those who have a pre-planned investment hold their investments even in bad times.  When the Bitcoin market moved above $60,000 and those who bought Bitcoin at that time and who have held onto that investment until now are real patient investors. Patience is a very necessary aspect of a human being. He who has no patience loses everything. I got real proof of how important patience is for a man.

I went to the bank for one of my needs to deposit money and while depositing that money I faced this real experience. Money was being collected from three counters and there were enough customers in three counters to catch up. I was regularly monitoring the movement of a person who was first in our line but as our line was a bit crowded he went to counter number three and a person at counter number three deposited a lot of money due to which there was a lot of delay. Due to the delay from counter number three he returned to our serial again though two more new persons entered our serial after he left. Our line grew a bit as two new people joined a serial due to which he impatiently went to another counter to deposit money and when the man was very close to depositing money the bank official left the counter for one of his needs. As he left the counter he came into our line again and he fell far behind. Seeing his restlessness, I was able to understand that it is not right to be in such a hurry in all work and one should be patient. If the person was patient, he could have deposited money long before our line, but because of changing counters multiple times, he ended up depositing last of all.

We should not be too hasty or too impatient to invest. When the market goes down, we have to take it naturally. Naturally one must wait for good times, if the investor waits for good times then good times will surely come for him.

Your way of framing your response is strange though.  Because DCA is a kind of ongoing buying that likely is better used for longer term investing rather than planning to get out of bitcoin in a shorter period merely based on profits, so when you are suggesting Opting in and out, you seem to be talking about both trying to time the market and trading, but really a DCA approach would likely end up identifying the investment that you want to get into, which in this case is bitcoin, and then once you identify the investment, then you figure out your own budget regarding how much to invest into bitcoin on a regular basis, and so then the better that you know yourself and the 9 factors that I mentioned, then the more aggressive that you could afford to be with your bitcoin investment and still not necessarily feel stressed out about your investment into bitcoin because you realize that you are drawing from discretionary money rather than money that you need to cover your expenses in the next month to six months... so yeah, you could well have an emergency fund that covers 3-6 months of your expenses (salary) and helps you to feel comfortable that you have enough money in such emergency fund in the case you might be able to be more aggressive in your bitcoin investment and also to have the emergency fund available in case you overdo it... which might sometimes end up happening, and it should be minimized that you are counting on your emergency fund, yet after you maintain an emergency fund for a long enough period of time and you get used to maintaining an emergency fund, then you should come to realize how to use it and the creation of your own personal boundaries for when and how to use it..


As I mention in that linked post, it can take a while for guys to figure out each of their particulars in regards to the 9 factors to consider... so there is no need to rush such process, but as you get your various factors in order then you have a checklist of each of the kinds of things that you should be considering when making your investment into bitcoin and how to maybe tailor your investment into bitcoin from time to time in accordance with the 9 factors (which surely sometimes will also change and help to warrant, from time to time, various changes to your BTC accumulation/maintenance and/or liquidation stages).

Well I guess JJG mentioned this as Gambling your way into profit in Bitcoin not really gambling its a simple way of gradual opt-in of  Btc trade with consideration of HODLing for a long period  of time, well it depends on the movements  .


I really need to go through this there're many alot of things I need to understand and I could really make use of it too.

No matter how much you study or gather knowledge prior to investing, you learn investment only when you jump with real cash. Techniques like paper trading can help you a bit but they are no way a replacement of real money investment.
Everyone want to buy Bitcoin when its up and not much pay attention to bitcoin when price is down. There is no harm in buying Bitcoin when it goes up but buying with intention that price is going up so I may buy Bitcoin to get profit is wrong approach. In fact this is what we are discussing here that there must be a strategy that must be span over a period of time (4 or more years) before you start seeing the real profit.
Now price is up and many people are buying, as evident from Bitcoin fear and greed index. Same ratio of buyers is not seen when price is down.


https://alternative.me/crypto/fear-and-greed-index/

That is if the person can continue to hold the bitcoin even though the price is still below the purchase price. Most people will panic and sell their bitcoins quickly, even if they bear the loss. Not many people can continue to hold their bitcoin in a loss condition.

By using the DCA method, you can increase the number of bitcoins at many prices so that it will reduce your average buying price. And your purchase price is no longer at $69k but could be even lower so if he can continue investing in bitcoin at the low price, that would benefit him.

Maybe we can try to explore different kinds of investors in regards to ways that they might accumulate BTC and perhaps we don't even need to go too far down the path of comparing BTC accumulators to traders.

The most that a person who is ONLY buying (and not using leverage and/or trading) can screw up is to have an average BTC price at the top of the market, so just by definition, if someone buys at the top and continues to buy, his average cost per BTC is going to ultimately end up coming down, and in order to be profitable - in terms of the average, then the price that BTC needs to reach will continue to go down as more buys are made, so profitability will come into existence quite long before reaching the ATH again.    Of course, the purchase that was made at the top will not get into profits until after reaching the ATH again, and so there can be some variance in terms of whether someone might measure whether they are in profits in terms of transaction by transaction or if they also might consider their average price per BTC, and there should be no reason not to be able to engage in both kinds of practices in order to better understand how to manage the BTC that you have accumulated in terms of how profitable it is - while at the same time, there are some folks who are not very detailed in their keeping track of their BTC, so they might ONLY have ballpark ideas regarding the extent to which their BTC holdings might be profitable or not.

Of course, someone who bought at the top and then did not buy any more BTC will be stuck waiting for the BTC price to get back above the ATH in order to get into profits.

There could be other ways in which a person continues to buy, but the cost per BTC does not continue to go down, and that would come after a person were to keep buying and to lower his cost per BTC from $69k to let's say $30k or $40k, but then after the BTC price is above $30k or $40k, then he keeps buying BTC, so his average cost per BTC is no longer getting lower upon each purchase, and there likely is nothing wrong with your average cost per BTC increasing, as long as you might be meeting other goals, which might be just wanting to increase your BTC stash and/or continuing to appreciate that BTC remains a good place to store value, even if the price might fluctuate quite a bit and sometimes your BTC stash is not in profits, but there is a bit of speculation (perhaps based on an understanding of BTC being sound money and scarce) that a person holding BTC is likely going to have more financial options in the future as compared with someone who chooses not to hold BTC.

Maybe it could be worth it to briefly contrast what the trader does? Instead of continuing to buy BTC on a regular basis and continuing to go long, the trader engages in practices to try to lower his cost per BTC, but if he ends up NOT being successful, he could end up raising his cost per BTC, even when he is fucking around with his trades at prices that are way lower than the ATH, or even lower than his average cost per BTC... so a person engaging in trading may well end up having to make up for his trading mistakes by hoping that the BTC price goes higher than the previous ATH or even if he is able to bring down his cost per BTC, he may well might not have had been able t bring down his cost per BTC as much as the person who is strictly buying BTC on a regular basis, so the trader might have been trying to engage in short-cuts to lower his average cost per BTC in a faster way than the person who is merely buying BTC on a regular basis, but the end effect is that his cost per BTC might not lower as quickly and there could even end up being circumstances in which he unduly causes his cost per BTC to raise, even higher than the ATH.

Of course, there are different intensities in which a person might trade, gamble or even to employ leverage, and there could likely be some prudent ways to trade, gamble and employ leverage to increase likelihood for better results as compared with the person who merely buys BTC on a regular basis... yet we are not talking about those matters in this thread, and we should expect and understand that the techniques for trading, gambling and leveraging are more complicated than the ones for buying persistently, consistently, ongoingly, regularly and in accordance with one's own financial/psychological circumstances including the considerations of cashflows and expenses.


If you are ONLY buying BTC after buying at the ATH, then it is guaranteed that you will be in profits when the next ATH comes (if it comes).


It is not guaranteed that a person will ONLY buy and it is not guaranteed that an ATH will come again... yeah, if someone screws around with buying and selling or otherwise engaging in gambling or leverage then he could well end up raising his costs per BTC rather than lowering them.  Lower costs per BTC is guaranteed to happen as long as you are buying below your average costs per BTC, yet at the same time, sometimes people are sloppy in their ways of keeping track of these kinds of matters including keeping track of the costs and quantities of their buys, and if they end up trading then they can really end up screwing up their accounting - especially if they might already be engaging in sloppy accounting practices.


That sounds correct in regards to the best time to get involved in bitcoin was yesterday, and since you cannot go back in time, then the second best time would be to get involved today.  In other words, gets started as soon as possible and make some kind of a plan and start to follow the plan and then tweak the plan along the way as you are learning more about your own financial/psychological circumstances (including accounting for the 9 factors that I mentioned in this post) in order to employ a personally tailored approach.


Ways to control your emotions is by establishing techniques that deal with moderating and managing position size.  I don't see any reason that anyone should stay out of bitcoin, and in fact everyone should get into bitcoin by at least getting off zero, so even if that is only a 1% allocation or something modest.  So getting out and staying out, does not seem to be the solution for most people, and of course, if a person does not have any discretionary income, then he is not able to invest into bitcoin or anything else, so there are needs to sort out a persons discretionary income in order to make sure that he is able to invest and that he is not going to need the money.. which again brings us back to moderating emotions by moderating and managing position size, which is not necessarily zero..and actually probably should not be considered to be zero..

So to avoid coming up with wrong conclusion regarding on this situation much better if we could learn from experience of other that made a mistake regarding how they take those FOMO situation. For sure we can learn a lot from stories of other people showing their regrets towards taking rush decision while the market is currently reaching its new high. That's the importance of analyzing the market since from that we can get an idea that its not really good to buy at that situation but rather we can wait for some correction to happen since this is actually the best time for us to accumulate back again.

The hype of bitcoin is to much especially when people talk about bull run to happen since many think that the same what happen on history they can earn a lot of money from it but they didn't realize that they also need to gather knowledge about it on what they would like to do to their investment either they want to HODL or to do DCA. if they choose one of it then its cool since all will matter on how those people will execute or handle the pressure it self since market is so volatile and we cannot control anything what might happen to it that's why at least we have a knowledge about it so we will not regret some decision we make.

There is a saying that "beauty catches the eyes while personality keeps the heart". This statement is applicable to even Bitcoin because the hype is like the beautiful things people see in Bitcoin that actually attract them. So, the hype is good for Bitcoin, it is just for those of us who have been there to guide them properly. We have to convince them not to be carried away by the hype but follow a well-defined approach like the DCA method.

Remember that most of us here actually joined Bitcoin following previous hypes, which has become part and parcel of Bitcoin. Just imagine how the market responds to news, this shows how humans responds to hypes and fear. Even though FOMO is bad in the long run, I feel it is an energy that should be properly managed.

Like I said before, those coming into Bitcoin due to the hype should receive help from those of us that have been there. We need to tell them how to go about managing their expectations so they are not carried away into taking wrong decisions.

The fear of missing out has cause a lot of investors to regret, I will say this act is commonly done by new comers who doesn't know anything about the market but due to the hype alot of them decide to buy with huge sum and end up with high expectations from the market, concerning the hype what will make a newbie to follow the hype they have heard something about bitcoin before they made such decision, the hype about bitcoin is just too much and anyone who can't control their emotions they should just stay out from investing.
Investors who find themself in this circumstances some can't even wait for 2_3 years before the next ATH that's why they choose to follow the hype, when it comes to FOMO this kind investment choice is never right not only bitcoin investment other investment too, for example a newbie who doesn't know how the market works how can that person make a proper investment. I will go with the opinion to continue using the DCA strategy not minding the hype cause during this season a lot of investors take high risk spending more.

Alright I think I get your point  here,you mean if anyone  trys to DCA when the Bitcoin reaches $69k he/she could recover profits when the next ATH comes  .

Well I guess if I'm not mistaken  Bitcoin is still volatile and predicting it just like that mightnot work   as we could be expecting something else by then but Bitcoin is not just any type of coin and not too volatile,there's still a chance for DCA maybe but the future will determine.Thus, you wanna consider DCA  then start now

Mistakes like these can happen and it may take several years or more for someone to start seeing profits from their BTC investment. It is crucial to acknowledge that there are no guarantees in the market even though many of us have confidence in Bitcoin as a long-term investment. Despite our positive assessment it's possible that external factors could negatively impact Bitcoin's investment thesis. But if we believe in Bitcoin so definitely we will be happy after a certain.

But the thing is that if anyone is DCAing with time to time so this strategy will recover the mistakes which he/s made at the time of FOMO. If anyone invested on the top when Bitcoin was at $69000. And still DCAing so I am sure that he has recovered almost 80% to 90% loss and if he will hold and continue the strategy so he/s will be in profit when Bitcoin will cross ATH again.

People plan about something when they have money to accomplish it. Before building a house when we have enough money to build a house but we plan how to build a house but if we don't have enough money but it is our dream that one day we will build a house. Planning about something and getting ideas about something are two different things. An investor will plan to invest only when he has money to invest. If he doesn't have money to invest, if he dreams of investing then he can get idea about investment which will help him in later investment. The more a person knows about any subject, the more it benefits him because there is no end to knowledge, the more people know, the more people will master that subject.

It can definitely be a good idea for new investors. You have made it easy for the new investor where a new investor thinks he needs to manage enough money to invest. Here you have explained well how a new investor should start investing. If an investor is able to initiate the investment, then investing later on will act as a responsibility for him. Just as he considers it his responsibility to manage the family, once he starts investing, he also considers it his responsibility to consistently increase his investment. Nothing should be done in a hurry, it is better to do it slowly.

For those who earn relatively more money, $10 to $20 may not matter, but if those who work in a tea shop are asked about their need for $10 to $20 at the end of the month, they can very well say that they need $10 to $20 at the end of the month. A tea vendor on the sidewalk sells tea to 10 to 20 people and earns one dollar, it would be wrong to say that he earns one dollar because he sells tea for one dollar and here he has some expenses and a small amount of profit apart from the expenses. If a person who sells tea on the sidewalk is asked to invest $10 to $20 at the end of the month, then this $10 to $20 will be the highest investment for him and he will make this investment with great hope.  
What I feel is that no action is small and no amount to invest is small with any amount an investor can start his investment.

Persisting and remaining consistent with what I want regarding Bitcoin investment results, will definitely be my priority. Because after all, I already had intentions and plans regarding this since I decided to buy bitcoin. However, it is not impossible for me to change plans for certain reasons. Because perhaps my initial intentions and goals when investing in Bitcoin were less effective or less than optimal. However, for now I will definitely continue to do DCA on bitcoin, before the bull market arrives and when the bull market is underway, I will most likely pause the DCA that I usually do. Because if the market is bullish, I think it is very likely that the price of bitcoin will definitely be above. So I decided to pause DCA. Although basically what I do is different from the DCA scheme which doesn't really prioritize the rise and fall of prices when entering and buying. But in my opinion, this decision is not too bad to consider.

Because if you look at the history of the bitcoin halving and bullish market in the last few years, after bitcoin reached its ATH, after that the bitcoin price experienced a correction first. Well, maybe during the halving period or more precisely in the upcoming bull market, I will take a break from DCA and will start again after Bitcoin experiences a correction. Although I don't know yet whether the correction will go down much or not. However, when Bitcoin experiences a correction, I will definitely decide to DCA again, even though the correction is not too far, or even doesn't go down at all.

And if in the next bull market, bitcoin reaches a high price(ATH), I will most likely sell 50% of my bitcoin to take some profit. Initially I wanted to sell 100% of the bitcoin assets I owned. However, from this discussion I gained a new understanding and perspective regarding HODLing bitcoin. Therefore I will not do that. Because it would be a shame if all the bitcoin assets I have collected so far (DCA) are completely sold and I will start from zero again.

Bitcoin itself is already enough stress why would someone want to multiple the stress by venturing into shitcoins that are mostly sponsored by some pump and dump group in order to reap off and crash the coin.

Is there any investor that still thinks any of the shitcoins is better than bitcoin? may be it's just a joke that shitcoin is better than bitcoin because I don't see anyone who really is into crypto that doesn't know what Bitcoin is, hence comparing with shitcoins. Even people who don't know much about cryptocurrencies in general still knows that Bitcoin is the real deal.

I'm still trying to find that Altcoin that is worth DCAing into because absolutely I see only Bitcoin both in price and performance as the coin that can be accumulated with DCA properly. how much does this shitcoins worth that anyone will be DCAing into them or how long does this shitcoins last?

Well, I wouldn't stop an adult from making his or her decision but in whatsoever you (the so called person) do, don't come back regretting or crying out how you lost your money. based on my little know one can buy this shitcoins when you have a certain amount of Bitcoin accumulated and at least it should be less that 1% or your investment in Bitcoin.

That's quite right, sir, because the longer we stay in Bitcoin, the more confidence we have in continuing to hold Bitcoin. Those who continue to procrastinate will regret it later as we have seen in many threads where the regrets are about those who are not able to hold on to Bitcoin ownership for long and also the regrets they express for always delaying buying Bitcoin. Time flies so fast and unexpectedly we are already at the end of 2023 and for those who have continued to accumulate bitcoins from the beginning of the year, of course this is the annual closure of their portfolio in 1 year.

In this way, the opportunity can be utilized as best as possible to continue buying dips and holding in the long term.
Of course we are all waiting for Bitcoin prices to fall further to be able to accumulate bitcoin more aggressively. And being able to do it regularly with DCA is the best way we can accumulate Bitcoins. Don't underestimate Bitcoin because Bitcoin is an asset that performs quite well and interest in it continues to increase and it will be one of the goals of all people to own Bitcoin someday. The earlier the better, so that time is quite valuable and can be utilized by people who are really serious about carrying out their investments.

Not only just on crypto investment but also into those traditional investment as well if we do speak about being organized and well searched and having those plans that had been set out. You cant really just that simply dive in without having those preparations on which we know that it is something that cant really be that easily attained in short time. This is why it would be always best that you should come up with a plan whenever you do have that interest on dealing up with these things in the first place. Now going back into Bitcoin investment then it would be just that normal that people would really be having those kind of approach on securing out their profits even on small % gains on which i dont see anything wrong with that, if you do know on how to scalp or hedge with these movements in the market then its good but
only a few do really be able to know or capable on doing so.In overall in regarding about buying low and selling high thing then it would be just basing on what are your goals and targets.

Thing here is that you should really know on when to get in and when to get out no matter what condition it would be. It is really just that there are people who are really that optimistic
when it comes to things on which they would really be that anticipating or expecting too much on something that cant easily happen out.
Tons of factors which could affect when we do speak about profitability.

Given that some shitcoin has a large market capitalization, why would someone find himself DCAing on shitcoin because of that? Are they intending to benefit handsomely from shitcoin that is unable to withstand the bear market that drives the majority of them out of the crypto space? It is regrettable that some investors still think investing in shitcoin is a better option than bitcoin due to its high cost and lack of short-term profit potential.

Everyone can easily learn investment practices because they can buy Bitcoin and hold it for a long period. I see the points that you have listed and all of them really need to be thought about by newcomers to investing in Bitcoin because they need to organize every plan in making an investment. At the level of profit taking maybe it's not something that should be thought about early because it will bother them when the price rises a few percent.

Another point that may be quite interesting is the financial management stage involved in investing in bitcoin. They must organize well for the smooth running of the investments they make. On this principle they must continue to make purchases by allocating a few percent of their money each month because if they are consistent in managing purchases then they can focus on holding in the long term.

There can be accounting difficulties, tax consequences, third-party exposure and also just risk to not knowing when the top is in or knowing when to buy back, and many times we talked in this thread about putting yourself in a mentality in which you are not accumulating BTC and/or not seeing the value of accumulating BTC..

So yeah, you can try to play the waves, and maybe you will end up getting it kind of right.. but you might not, and sure part of the transformation of seeing value in bitcoin is to continue to hold it rather than considering how many hookers, lambo and blow you might get.. if we are referring consumption, or on the other hand if we are referring to investment to consider whether there actually are better places to put your value.

Sure, if you ONLY have bitcoin, then you would be more justified to be diversified into other assets when the bitcoin goes up in value, especially a if you have a lot of bitcoin relative to anything else that you might own...

and maybe you actually do not appreciate the UPward potential for bitcoin that would end up locking you out of being able to get as many bitcoin, if you are not sufficiently and/or adequately prepared... so in that sense, it could be dangerous to trade out of bitcoin, when it is amongst the best and most pristine assets of the world, if not the best.


Almost every asset has the problem of being eroded by inflation, even property and even gold, and part of the reason that gold is subject to the same inflation is because it has many paper forms in which it is difficult to take actual and immediate possession, as can be done with bitcoin, if you have not contracted away your rights to possess your bitcoin by leaving them with a third party custodian.


It seems "long term" investor would have to be at least a whole cycle, which is 4 years, and most likely even longer than that, but there are some goals not to be overly exclusive in terms of trying to make such definitions... and think about it, if you are just trying to play the wave within any particular cycle, then how could you really be defining yourself as a "long term investor."
 

Whatever you call yourself, you seem to be striving to be successful to play the wave within a cycle.


Another aspect could be to plan to play the cycle with a certain percentage of your BTC stash, perhaps 50%, or less, and then let the other part of your BTC stash ride (in a lon- term investor kind of way), and yeah, if you are tempted by wanting to sell everything, then you might not even want to hold onto half of it, and so no one can really stop you from doing whatever you think is better for yourself and for your situation. .and you can see how well it plays out for you to get into a practice of trading rather than holding, or even getting into a mindset in which you feel that you need to do all or nothing rather than figuring out some kind of incremental way to attempt to build your BTC stash, if that might be what you are ultimately trying to achieve.  

Yeah, you might be thinking about bitcoin in terms of its dollar value, so you get nervous about losing dollar value when the BTC price goes into a correction, yet there are still meaningful and even valuable ways to consider modification of your approach so that you might still be able to shave off some of your profits, while letting the other portion ride.  Some longer term BTC HODLers got into such HODLing mindset because they had previously gotten burned by selling too much of the BTC stash too soon, and then they either did not know when to get back in after the BTC price dropped, or the BTC price did not end up dropping as they expected, and it became too stressful to be in and out of BTC rather than just choosing a position size that is comfortable and then just making sure to stay in bitcoin, which ends up being more comfortable, especially once you get used to holding bitcoin and also once you figure out a position size (of BTC hodling) that is sufficiently comfortable for you..


Pretty much every time period is now profitable for any person who had been consistently DCAing, an of course, the longer, the better in terms of BTC accumulation.

Sometimes based on personal circumstances, cash flow circumstances or just getting caught up in the BTC (FOMO) hype, people will end up investing more into BTC (in kind of lump sum ways) at certain times, so there could be cases in which a person invested way more into BTC at the top of BTC prices in 2021, so then that person may well end up still being in the negative because they are having to make up for their having had front loaded their BTC investment at times that ended up being higher prices than they are currently.   Those kinds of mistakes do sometimes end up happening, and maybe some of those kinds of persons might end up DCA investing into bitcoin 3-4 years (or even more) before they finally start getting into profits.  Of course, no matter what there are not any guarantees that your BTC portfolio will end up in profits, even though many of us have certain levels of confidence that bitcoin is amongst the best of investments currently available, if not the best investment, and because of our assessment of bitcoin, we continue to buy into it, even if it might take a while for our holdings to get into profits (an might not ever get into profits if something ends up negativing bitcoin's positive investment thesis).

Investing in Bitcoin is completely dependent on the investor.I think investing is by no means an easy matter. Those who are new to investing should have a clear understanding of several things.

For example, acquiring knowledge about investments.
If a newbie wants to invest in Bitcoin then first of all an investor needs to gain knowledge about this investment. An investor cannot be completely dependent on others. Investing in Bitcoin is, as always, a very sensitive matter.

Investing at the right time.
When we invest, many of us are in a hurry to invest, which may not be good for us at all. Again, many of us change investments frequently. But according to wise investors, it is better to invest with thought and time before investing.

Investment plan:
How much dollar amount are you looking to invest?
Where and how you invest,
What do you do if the investment goes down?
When do you withdraw money from investments, etc.
These are very simple and important points for new investors. But there are investors who ignore them and invest because they end up losing their investment.

If you understand the investment in this way, maybe the newbies can clearly understand and learn about the investment.