Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 501. (Read 135934 times)

I would not like to say specifically any new or old investors should follow DCA. Anyone can apply the technique by recognizing these beneficial aspects. However, those who are not financially astute may consider investing in Bitcoin as an opportunity to grow their portfolio. It doesn't matter how much I invest. But the key is that I am investing small amounts regularly which will help to grow my portfolio. It also plays a role in reducing risk as it creates investment opportunities. It is not possible for an ordinary or small investor to invest large amounts at once. If those investors are willing to invest then DCA may further encourage them to invest for the long term and definitely It will be the best way to invest systematically.

… but not profitable for Bitcoin.

It’s this statement that I feel drawn too, falconer are you saying holders essentially minimise the utility of Btc and this is what is not good for BTC? This is one topic I don’t see talked about much, it’s in my list of I need help understanding this.

You are right because irrespective of how potential Bitcoin is I see no reason why we should persuade other people to invest on Bitcoin because investment is something that has to do with choice and desire, however irrespective of opportunities investment on Bitcoin could yield in the future doesn't mean that everybody is destined  to invest on it, but however we can only encouraged people if they ask for guidelines, with that is obvious the person has interest on Bitcoin and we can encourage the person to hold.

Especially being an investor is much better and safer than being a trader. Because a new person can never become a trader and it requires a lot of knowledge and experience. But a new person can definitely invest in Bitcoin monthly or weekly for a long period of time by adopting DCA strategy. And there is no fixed amount of money, he can participate in investment weekly/monthly with the little money he survives, and it is possible to invest in it for a long time and keep it safe. So I never support a new person to become a trader. Because a new person trader is definitely more likely to lose the portfolio. Therefore, long term investment following DCA strategy will work well.

Yeah, it might sound a bit harsh, but it's pretty silly when we try to convince others, especially when it comes to investing. Nobody can predict the future. We're actively involved in the market, which makes us believe in the potential of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as the future. However, many people outside this market don't even understand what Bitcoin is, so how can we expect them to have faith in it? Those who want to understand will do so on their own. Trying to persuade others to believe in our views is just a waste of time and not very wise.

It's true that traders and investors are two different things, traders make profits from price fluctuations that occur while investors make profits from increases in the value of the assets they hold, usually in the medium and long term.  Talking about DCA, it is a strategy that is highly recommended for beginner investors and also investors who plan to hold for a long time, every week is an opportunity to buy Bitcoin, now the choice depends on you whether you will become a trader or an investor.

Yeah that's just the only way for beginners to progress while focusing on accumulating Bitcoin, I no that there are numerous strategy used by different individuals about accumulating or trading but for the purpose of this thread lets avoid information overload were as the beginners whom are trying to adapt to DCA strategy will get confused on the one that will be best suitable for them.

So perhaps we should focused more on strategies that could work for us through holding because DCA strategy has been a game changer for those who understand it, there is a saying that, it doesn't matter how fast you were able to enter the market but what matters is how well you have achieved from the market, most person jump into accumulation with the plans to invest all they have so that they will have a higher amounts of Bitcoin more than other people and before a month they have ran out of funds and leading them to sell off there accumulated Bitcoin on a discount, but in DCA you don't need to competite with anybody because DCA strategy is something that involves slowly accumulation but the out come of it in the future will worth something to write home about.

From my understanding, you are suggesting short term trading otherwise called scalping. Well, I will never recommend this to anybody as long as Bitcoin is concerned because there are high chances it will end in pain. How can you take risk with Bitcoin that can move over $2000 in few hours? To me this is outright gambling with odds already against you.
I have seen several people fail trying to do this even those using sophisticated softwares. So it is not something I will ever recommend for anyone.

It is always better we focus on what is easy and generally workable for as many people as possible. From the discussion in this thread, a lot of people are new to this entire thing so we have to guide them properly to avoid mistakes. That being said, let's focus on long term strategies that will ensure people buy and give the market a chance to yield profits.

You have said it all. Assuming he dropped that comment in the trading discussion thread, I wouldn't have objected but since we are discussing long term investment here, it is a kind of distraction. Like I said before, Let the focus be on DCA and other long term strategies.

You gotta be careful trying to spend too much time trying to persuade others to buy bitcoin when they do not understand and/or appreciate bitcoin's investment case irrespective of what you are doing yourself and what you are telling them.  In their minds, they believe that you are the crazy one.

I frequently tell people that everyone should get at least a little bit of bitcoin and even start out with a small amount, and even if I know them well enough to know that they could easily afford $100 per week, I will tell them that $10 per week is better than nothing, even though they should be spending $100 per week.. but whatever, they have to do what they want or what they believe is right for their own situation.  And, sometimes, I will also suggest that even though it is good to get started with some kind of bitcoin buying routine and even to commit to 4-10 years, I don't really give any shits about what they do .. it is their choice.  I will tell them that they probably will end up buying bitcoin later, but it is likely going to be at a higher price.. but whatever, at this time they believe that it is not going to help them, even though it is a great hedge against a lot of the injustices in the world in regards to the governmental abuses of power in connection to the money printer and the ongoing degrading of the money, which they cannot do to bitcoin and bitcoin will benefit from the government's ongoing desperation to print money and their irresponsibility.. and bitcoin does not do those kinds of things.

You can also ask them questions about their own investments, but also that might not help and frequently people do not like to talk too much about their financial details, but sometimes if you can frame the question in delicate ways in which you are not necessarily asking specifics, then at least you might have some ideas about what they invest into, if anything.. or if they are just struggling and they hardly have any extra cashflow, even if they do seem to go on elaborate vacations a couple times a year... and of course, those are choices that people make.. in regards to how much they are spending and if they could end up saving/investing more than they do.


I still believe that you are underestimating bitcoin's power, and bitcoin already reached more than $1 trillion market cap last cycle, which was around $55k.. so if bitcoin gets to around $280k, then it will be a $5 trillion market cap.. and about 1/2 of gold's market cap.. so many folks already know that bitcoin is better than gold and the fact of the matter is that bitcoin is likely 1,000x or more better than gold, but I doubt that gold is going to completely lose its market cap, so there could be a variety of ways that bitcoin reaches some of its fair market value by getting to be 1,000x the price (market cap) of gold, yet it could happen in 20-50 years or maybe it will take longer, even 150-200 years to get to that kind of relative pricing.

Anyhow back to my assertion that bitcoin is not a mature asset class or a mature value, and in that regard, you are underestimating bitcoin if you are merely considering that it will go up 10x from here and then stabilize, when ONLY about 1% of the world's population is actually invested into bitcoin at this time, and perhaps even those who are invested into bitcoin do not even realize the extent to which they are underinvested into bitcoin, so bitcoin is still a very immature market and there are still a lot more people to come into bitcoin, and network effects and even metacalfe principles are going to continue to justify that BTC values (and prices) continue to go up exponentially with the playing out of those kinds of networking effects and metacalfe principles.

I completely agree with your observation that choice of historical data can significantly impact the assessment of Bitcoin's correlation with other assets, as different time frames can yield varying results. In this context, I might be mistaken but I think the time frame from 2015 to 2021 holds particular significance, as during this period Bitcoin became well known through the media and prominent financial companies like MicroStrategy invested in it, which led its value skyrocketing.

While I could be wrong; it seems that the ongoing unfair advantage of Bitcoin over other asset classes is a significant factor that makes it an attractive investment today. this trend is likely to continue until Bitcoin reaches a more substantial market cap, perhaps $5 trillion or more, which would contribute to its stability as an asset and reduce volatility.

Is never a guaranteed to make money from volatility, in as much as volatility is concerned the chances of making money is not certain, when we talk about volatility we are referring to price fluctuations moving up and down, however there are chances of you losing out your funds while trading volatility so we shouldn't always see volatility as an easy way of making money it doesn't work that way.

You can never compare DCA strategy and trading volatility because DCA is not established for day traders however it was brought to help people especially the beginners on how they can minimize risk and accumulate with the little funds they can afford.

I simply don't understand you statement in bold letter Falconer. How will hodli affect bitcoin. Bitcoin price is being affected by demand and supply, this was where you thought that you are making a point which made you think that JJG is not 100% correct but the fact remains that JJG is 100% correct than you, from what you said. Long term investment is the best way that one can get profit from bitcoin based on the size of your portfolio and this is why DCA method will give you a bigger chance of increasing your bitcoin portfolio gradually. This was what JJG was saying and also it was the same thing that you said.

Don't bother wasting your time trying to convince anyone to invest in bitcoin if they don't buy the idea, as there is nothing that you can do about it, since they are adamant to understand what you told them. This means that they don't have the interest of investing in bitcoin and to adopt new technology, and if you want to force them, it might be that you want to scam them. The time is coming that they will regret their refusal of not listening to you and invest, and they will blame themselves for this, just like the way some newbies and old forum members were regretting that they ignored investing in bitcoin during the early days of bitcoin.

Although some of them think that Bitcoin is too expensive, it is a stupid mistake that they have thought. I had a chance to chat with several people where I live discussing Bitcoin investment. But they firmly said that Bitcoin was too expensive for us and we were no longer very interested in Bitcoin investment. I explained in detail but they still answered like that. Can any of you provide stronger encouragement for me to convey to them that Bitcoin investment is the best investment at the moment and does not measure the price because Bitcoin supply is limited. Maybe I'll wait for your explanation.

However, I still adhere to my stance that I will continue to accumulate Bitcoin at every stage because I don't really care about empty talk from out there. Because we will take advantage at some point in the future for what we have done in investing in Bitcoin. They are stupid not to learn and even more stupid not to invest in Bitcoin.

I started out in my response to your post by looking at the bolded part, and I did not see anything controversial with that statement and/or any disagreement between us..

so maybe we are not clear about what each of us is saying.

I had largely been attempting to say that the longer that you invest in bitcoin, then the more likely that your BTC holdings are going to be in profits in terms of their dollar value, and maybe your BTC holdings would go up and maybe they wouldn't depending on if you continue to buy bitcoin after your initial purchases... . but the mere fact of buying and holding bitcoin for a long time is likely to put you into profits, especially if that is all that you do with your bitcoin.. as contrasted with trying to trade them.

So I was largely just elaborating on the expression "time in the market is better than timing the market."

No..no, wait a minute, You have to look at the points I have bolded in your post. I mean, buying bitcoin and holding them for the long term is a profitable approach for investors or holders, but it will not be profitable for bitcoin. Am I interpreting it the wrong way?

I completely agree that a long term holder still may not be able to make money from their investment if they they screwed up their ways of securing their bitcoin. But that's not something I disagree with in your post and I already explained it in the first paragraph.

I don't mind if you disagree with me. 

We have more interesting discussions if people do not necessarily agree and if they are trying to make points that they really believe to be true.. so which part of what I said is disagreeable?

I know that mistakes can be made.. so if someone buys BTC and tries to secure BTC for the long run and they are in bitcoin for several years, maybe even a couple of cycles, so they have a lot of money, maybe even 20x profits, but if such longer term BTC HODLer/accumulator person does not know what they are doing, then they may not end up making any money from their having had been in BTC because they screwed up their ways of securing their bitcoin.. is that where you are disagreeing with me? or something else? 

Another thing could be that past results does not guarantee future results, so I know that, even though I did not say it.. but frequently we cannot necessarily say all things inside of each post, even though from time to time, I try.

I agree with 99% of your opinions, but 1 percent of them don't. I mean, it should be a profitable approach for investors or holders instead of bitcoin. I certainly know what you mean, but sometimes small mistakes can raise questions and lead to invalid understanding.

So far I have avoided trading as much as I can, it is the reason why I was able to invest and become a holder. From experience, trading sucks and it has dashed many of my dreams just because of lack of emotional control. Of course I don't want to discuss further about trading, that's just a discussion that is not good in this thread. Come back to the topic.  

There are no guarantees in bitcoin.  Even if you use the term "pretty much" that is too high of expectations to be acting like you are guaranteed to profit, which is not true.

Bitcoin is an asymmetric bet to the upside, so you have good chances to be able to increase the amount that you invested by more than the amount that you invested.. while at the same time, it is not guaranteed to go up... but if you lose,  you will only lose the amount that you invested.. so it surely should be a good reason to invest into bitcoin knowing that it could go either way, but if it goes down, you are ONLY going to lose the amount that you invested... so be careful not to invest more than you are willing to lose.

Yes, you can still make decent money when trading the volatility of bitcoin, but it is not a safe and recommended approach if compared to DCA. I see day to day trading with high volatility as gambling. But when it comes to DCA its totally different. The risk is less and yes you might be accumulating Bitcoin slowly, but you will surely meet your target. The special benefit of Dcaing in Bitcoin is that if you buy and hold, you are pretty much guaranteed to make lots of money in the long term.

We are not talking about trading in this thread, so trading may well not be a way to have any honeypot with bitcoin especially since the vast majority of traders suck and historically buying and holding bitcoin has proven to be a quite lucrative approach to bitcoin and there is no real evidence that buying/holding has changed as a good approach to bitcoin.. which you seem to somewhat understand from the contents of your post... in which you are recognizing the current period as a likely dip period.