Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 505. (Read 148160 times)

What is the need of diversification when we already have our investment on Bitcoin because most successful investors prefer to have only one source which is Bitcoin because there believe in Bitcoin can never be compared to any other investment so they decided to stick to only Bitcoin which is a very wise decision.

And perhaps I see no reason why an investor will prefer altcoin as a diversification for investment because there is no future for an investor who believes on altcoin, however what surprises me at times is that how could an investor see how potential and how real Bitcoin is for investment but decided to choose other alternatives such as altcoin, perhaps the earlier most investors who sees ltcoin as a method of diversification realized they are making a terrible Mistake the better for them because is only Bitcoin and nothing else.

I don’t understand why people are always happy only about the growth of Bitcoin, this is a one-sided view of the life of the market. It’s cool to sell part of Bitcoin at high values in order to buy it again. But isn’t it also cool to buy more BTC at the very bottom?
I am always very happy when I complete Bitcoin and after that the market makes a price reversal upward.
I understand that psychologically people are afraid to buy at lows, not understanding that this is a sale, and thinking that this is the death of Bitcoin. But he is immortal, and this is explained by the fact that he has already been buried more than 470 times.

https://crypto.news/bitcoin-has-been-buried-over-470-times-in-14-years-a-review-of-obituaries/

I agree with you. Years of experience in looking at the history of Bitcoin we can see clearly that waiting for a decline will not bring good results. It's better for you to save little by little. I see a lot of people who keep waiting for the price to go down because in their minds all they have is 1BTC and 0.1BTC even though wouldn't it be possible to buy 0.00001 BTC if we only had enough money to buy that much?

The fear of investing is that it is not a good one. If one is scared to invest, that means the person is a greedy investor. However, the kind of profits an investor expects from his investment can not come if the investor doesn't constantly buy, (just like, if someone doesn't work to get money, he or she will not get any of getting paid).
Like I have already said earlier, in years to come, 1 Satoshi will be worth a hundred dollars, but the most important thing we should do for now is not to fear and buy as many as we can, then hodl it till dear life, even if one doesn't have money to buy, then there is a DCA method he or she can use to achieve some Bitcoin or even some Satoshi (it that's what he or she can afford).

Most times, waiting for something to be not to be considered, we have to go towards it and grab it, instead of sitting down and waiting (there is a popular saying in my local, that says "if the mountains do not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad should go to the mountains) and I have been following that step instead of waiting for the dip.
I don't consider waiting for the dip a good way of investing, but if we eventually invest during the dip, then we should take advantage of it (even if it's a Satoshi we can afford at that time).

If one constantly buys without fear or greed, I seriously think that the chance of achieving half BTC or full BTC with $200 weekly in 10 years will be so near that the scared mindset can't be compared with at it.

Those that can not buy now are losing, but they don't know. Why I say what I said is because, with only the capital in their hands or in their pockets, they are not making any profit from it and some of them end up using their money for something that's not even important at all. So you said, I agree with that, buying regular is the most important thing to do.

Sarcasm bro! I don't think there is anyone who does not know that ponzi scheme is an easy way to waste money. Their promoters have this nice way of convincing people to invest, such as telling them they will double their money within two hours and showing fake evidence of successful withdrawals, only to scam the victims.

A lot of shitcoins are even ponzi schemes in another format. They pump the market, giving huge profits to the early people and this will make more people to join only to be roasted at the end of the day.

My reference of ponzi scheme is just another way of saying that anyone not satisfied with Bitcoin is surely looking for shortcuts which is dangerous.

I do not agree with you on this because investing in Ponzi schemes is the same thing as investing in altcoin because you are not certain of making any profit from a Ponzi scheme, and the Ponzi scheme can crash at any time they see they have made enough money from investors. An investor who is not financially okay should start up a business or look for a job so that he/she will have another source of income to run his daily needs in live. By doing this, he/she can hold his Bitcoin for the long term because there is a business or job that is taking of his daily needs.

We used to invest earlier and after investing earlier we saw the market only going down for a long time but still we held our investment deep hoping for something better. The market is in a much better state than it was once. Now is a golden opportunity for new investors because the market is now positive and we have been observing the market positive for almost six months. Now if an investor invests in Bitcoin and holds that investment deeply then he will have a golden opportunity to grow his money.  

By investing now there is a golden opportunity to get some good profit in future so I never tell those who don't have money to invest in debt because if a person decides to invest in debt then he will never be able to hold his investment for long. As far as I am concerned those investors think of investing who have some amount of money in savings and very few people decide to take out loans and invest. Although Bitcoin is a reliable investment platform, I would never recommend borrowing money from others to invest with that money. You can invest with the amount of money you have in the current market and before investing you must keep in mind that you can hold your investment for a long time.

We all have some objective to invest, but none of us invest aimlessly. While planning long-term investment, our objective is to earn good amount of money at the end of long term and while planning short-term investment, our objective is profit. In the beginning, it is natural to think that he will invest in Bitcoin and change his position in a short time, but after a few days of investing, when he tries to learn more about investing, his misconception about investing will be cleared.
I remember when I started investing I thought to myself that I would make a lot of money after a few days of investing so I checked my wallet every once in a while after investing. But when I realized that if I want to get something good from the investment, I must hold this investment deeply, I thought of holding my investment for a long time and I succeeded in holding it for a long time. After holding my investment for a long time I got enough success that's why I now favor long term investment and still hold Bitcoin in long term investment plan. If the new investors are starting their investment I think after starting they will get to know about the investment and their misconceptions will be cleared and they will definitely be in favor of holding their investment for a long time.

If Bitcoin is not volatile enough to vomit the much needed quick profits, you might consider ponzi schemes that supposedly multiply your capital within few hours.

Many people are entangled in the illusion that altcoins is diversification.  To me it is just another way of compounding the problem because the risk is exponential; you can lose everything. I consider Bitcoin safer and more reliable

I agree with you that diversification should be into something else and definitely not altcoins when someone is already invested in Bitcoin.

Yes, holding bitcoin for the long term is more enjoyable than holding it only for the immediate future, and I'm talking like this because I've experienced it myself.
Our own experience makes our belief in something we hold great, and that's how I feel about bitcoin. Especially when I know a strategy called DCA, yes it makes my investment more comfortable to do.
Some people who still doubt (especially beginners) I consider it a natural thing, and when they want to get rich quickly I will also consider it natural (for beginners), because they are in the process of understanding what they are actually doing. But when they really understand, they will be able to change their mindset.

If you want to diversify your investment when you have already invested in Bîtcoin, buying altcoin is not a good step in diversification because if there is a failure in Bitcoin there will also be a failure in altcoin. You can diversify your investment in something different from cryptocurrency such as real estate investment or selling a variety of merchandise, so that if one market fails, success in others will reduce the impact of failure.

Just because you have never done it, and/or maybe you never considered it either because it is possible that you have not been serious about bitcoin for the past 7.5 years since you registered your forum account and/or you have not had any lump sum come in your direction for the past 7.5 years.

Even a small amount of money outside of the normal cashflow might be considered a lump sum, even for poor people, and if someone is investing $10 per week into BTC for the last two years (a total of $1,040), and all of a sudden he has an additional $600 or even $1200, he has a lump sum situation on his hand and if he decided that he is going to allocate it towards bitcoin, then he should consider all three categories, even if he might choose not to pursue all three categories, but it can become much more empowering for someone who usually is ONLY able to buy $10 per week of BTC to suddenly have more options and perhaps 1 or two years of his/her prior investment all of a sudden come available for considerations regarding what to do about it.


I think it becomes more relevant once you have established a BTC accumulation plan and if you are following such plan, then if you suddenly have money come available to you, then you might consider investing it rather than spending it right away, but sure, maybe you will decide to ONLY invest half and to spend the other half on consumption goods.  Those are choices that come to people who either come across extra cash, or it could come from a situation in which you are deciding to reallocate some investments that had been building for a while, and the mere choice to reallocate may create a scenario in which all three categories of funding should at least be considered, even if you end up rejecting and/or minimizing one or more of them.


The trade off has to do with how you are thinking about your ways of investing, and sure it could have long term repercussions, yet if we are presuming that you already have a long term plan, then the idea of lump summing part of your investing (or it could also be referred to as front-loading your investment) most likely is affected on how you are viewing BTC's shorter-term price performance prospects, and since it sometimes can be dangerous to get too far into trying to predict shorter-term BTC price movements, we might create some stresses on ourselves if we end up employing one of the practices more than the other and then retrospectively seeing that we would have been better off to have had employed a different one of the practices.

I doubt that anyone can exactly figure out your own trade-offs, but there may be ways to talk through those kinds of potential trade-offs in a thread like this, whether you come across a certain situation yourself, you expect to come across a certain situation, or maybe you want to try to learn from a mistake that you may have made in the past regarding these kinds of matters.

Even I feel as if I could be perceived to be contradicting myself from time to time in terms of batting around these kinds of terms because surely I agree that DCA is the best practice for almost any newbie, but there are going to be situations in which there may be some desires to front run the investment with a lump sum or to defer buying right away by setting some money aside for buying on dips... so if you don't know what to do, then surely it seems the better of the decisions would be to just DCA and maybe hold back a little bit of your available funds so that you don't feel like you don't have enough money to buy more BTC if there is a further dip, but at the same time if you have a regular cashflow, or if you might have overly built up your emergency funds, you might already feel that you have plenty of cash on hand, so you don't necessarily feel any advantage towards holding back money to buy on dips. 

From the other angle, yeah, maybe lump sum buying would not come up as often, but surely some people who have regular jobs might even realize that they have bonus money coming in once or twice a year, and if they do not pre-plan to use that money for their expenses or for some consumption good, they could allocate some or all of that extra pay towards lump sum investing into BTC... and so as long as any of us have been serious about wanting to accumulate more bitcoin, then I would think that from time to time there are going to be situations that come up in which lump summing becomes one of the options that are available.


Sure, sometimes  any of us might refer to some short term strategies to over invest and then to cash out, but we are not really talking about those kinds of ideas in this thread.  In this thread, we are mostly attempting to talk about long term accumulation strategies, so long term accumulation strategies should be your way of considering the topics, unless someone here might be explaining some kind of a short-term (and likely mostly off topic) kind of considerations.

My earlier example of the extra $6k and the $6k for 6 months would be the kind of cash that has come available and/or can be considered for investing into BTC... whether it is invested over 6 months or it is front loaded or whether some kinds of cash is left aside for buying on dips, these are all buying strategies, and they are not short term trades... or anything like that. 

So I get the sense that you are easily distracted just like a lot of people who are looking for short term gainz because they are seeing the upcoming halvening and things like that, and sure we might want to consider how much to buy and to front load our investment because we are concerned that the BTC price might go up, but we end up kind of screwed if we frontload our investment and then the price goes down and we have no money to buy on dips and we also have no money to DCA because we blew too much of our available cash wadd too soon.


It is not about having a large amount of money, but surely it helps if you get some extra money, then lump sum becomes more relevant than if you are barely getting by with whatever you are able to invest, such as $10 per week... so sure, the 3 categories are more relevant for people with more money, but the fact that anyone is poor does not mean that they should not be considering the three categories when they might get some extra cash, even if it might only be a few months worth of DCA.. which might be a couple hundred dollars for the person who usually ONLY does $10 per week of DCA.


You don't necessarily apply the three, but you consider whether you should apply any or all of the three, and you decide what you are going to do.  There may be a lot of situations that come up in which you reject anything but DCA, and surely if you don't know what to do, then probably it is better to just DCA any extra cash that you get into BTC and skip all other strategies, but as your BTC stash increases, you are likely going to want to become a bit more creative and more regularly considering all three of the BTC accumulation strategies rather than just defaulting to DCA, even though there is nothing wrong with DCA, but if you had been buying $10 per BTC for the past 8 years, and you invested $4,180 and you had accumulated 1.65 BTC (currently valued at right around $62,370 - which is right around 15x in profits), then you might be in the mood for some other strategies, especially if your income still ONLY gives you $10 per week to invest into BTC, even after 8 years of ongoingly buying BTC with that method.

Of course, if you want, you can continue to DCA, but it may not necessarily be in your best interest to stick with that same strategy since your circumstances had changed, even after a few years, your situation had also already changed, but if it were to have had taken you 8 years to figure out that your situation had changed, then maybe you are not studying your options enough or paying close enough attention?


I am not even recommending lump sum, but I am recommending that there might be times in which we might want to consider changing our strategy and we have three options.. and if we end up buying way too much BTC and then the BTC price corrects instead of goes up, then we might have had ended up putting ourselves into a worse situation.  These are not easy decisions to make, but surely we have more options if suddenly we come across an unexpected bonus, but some guys decide to go out and take loans and other things like that, and I am not even recommending those strategies, even though sometimes they do seem to end up paying off quite handsomely, especially if you have other sources to pay back the loans in case that BTC prices do not end up moving in your favor in the coming 6-18 months or however long that you are expecting to need to have the BTC prices going up rather than down or sideways.

Well said mr JayJuanGee, I as a person would even recommend accumulating bitcoin using lump sum because, we are very close to the halving and any time from next year, we'll be experiencing the halving, so DCA and buy the dip should be kept on hold for now, so we can concentrate on accumulating as much as we can using lump sum. However, this bull run might take us to another all time high, so missing out this opportunity or not having enough bitcoin in your portfolio shouldn't be an excuse except, you can't afford to buy more due to some financial constrain. Now is the time for every bitcoin enthusiasts to step up their accumulation game by aggressively using lump sum to make huge buys and avoid the sell button. 

But so far, perhaps I myself have never done one strategy, namely Lump sum and it is still foreign to me. Well, I use two other methods, DCA and Buy on dips. Yes, because I am not experienced enough and have to improve myself to continue learning from what you have explained. This situation made me add one word for me to learn and that is lump sum.

That trade off doesn't fall into the category of long-term investment, right?  As far as I know, they play for short term investments, when there is profit, they don't forget to take it. If I understand this point from what you explained, maybe someone who has a large amount of money will easily play roles in the 3 categories you have mentioned. But one thing that might be quite interesting is when they divide their funds into 3 categories and if at this stage the market situation is in a bullish condition, are these 3 categories really good enough to apply or is DCA better?

Many times there are trade-offs, and even though DCA tends to be the best, DCA might not be the best for a person who has a lump sum of money currently available, and it might be better to lump sum most, if not all of that money, and then perhaps just have money to continue to buy if the price dips.... that is why a newbie to bitcoin likely needs to consider the three categories of 1) DCA, 2) Lump sum and 3) Buy on dips, and perhaps have some money allocated to each of the three categories, and if s/he chooses to eliminate any of the categories, then s/he would have at least weighed the pros and cons of each of the categories.

So a person who suddenly has $6k available could divide the $6k into 3 parts, and then maybe also consider what to do based on considerations of anticipated cash coming in too.. so if the next 6 months, the person also has $6k of extra cash coming in, then that is going to be $12k over the next 6 months, and then another consideration might be how many BTC does s/he already have.  Maybe if s/he had already been buying bitcoin for a year then the perspective would be different from a brand new investor, and even as compared with someone who might have been buying BTC for 6 years or more.  How highly DCA would factor into the various situations is going to likely play out differently, especially if we also include some of the other factors such as view of bitcoin as compared with other assets, which other assets are already owned, risk tolerance, timeline, time, skills and abilities to trade, reallocate and/or to learn more as things go along.

Is it a form of risk that accidentally becomes a burden on their minds so that they are unable to survive when the price of Bitcoin drops significantly?  Indeed, investing large amounts of money or doing it all at once will affect their minds because they do not yet have a strong mentality when the situation turns around to what they expected.

In that context, investors who start with the DCA strategy may be better prepared when the market situation changes suddenly because they can buy more BTC and those who are not mentally strong may be quite stressed by this situation. However, the essence of this point is of course that long-term investment planning requires many things that must be prepared in advance, such as being mentally ready to face all changes that occur at unexpected times. Being a loyal holder of Bitcoin requires strong mental strength to be able to carry out what has been previously planned.

Yes, you can try to figure out which shitcoins are less shitty.  That is up to you... is it a good use of time or not.

In any event, if you go to analyze any shitcoin, you should presume that it is shitty, it is not worth spending time, money or your own energies/efforts investing into it, but if you study it for a while and you are able to overcome the presumption that it is shitty, then you would there after consider how much further to invest into it. .and those kinds of analyses are not relevant to this thread... in terms of decisions that you made that might allow you to justify more than the 10% limit that I suggested.. with any limit and/or starting point, you are of course free to analyze and come to your own determination to go outside those parameters.

Another thing that I frequently suggest to newbie investors is that they should start out investing in bitcoin anywhere between 1% and 25% of their investment portfolio, and if they do not have an investment portfolio, then they should start out by investing 1% to 25% of their income into bitcoin in order to start to build their bitcoin portfolio (which will later become part of a larger investment portfolio, even if it may well take several years before expanding beyond bitcoin and cash),  and at the same time, even though I provide 1% to 25% starting guidelines, any person is free to come to their own determination, and maybe if they are brand new, they have no information to even figure out whether their investment into bitcoin should be at the lower end of the range or at the higher end of the range, but they should start by figuring out the range first before going beyond it, but if they later can justify reasons to go outside of the range, then I have no problem with the idea of people coming to their own determination, especially if they have figured out reasons why they should go outside of the range besides pure gambling and/or yolo type behaviors but instead study and analysis of themselves, their finances, their psychology and other relevant investment matters which would also include considerations of bitcoin as compared with other possible investment opportunities.


If you are brand new to investing into bitcoin, then I recommend that you invest anywhere between 1% to 25% of your investment portfolio into bitcoin, and if you do not have any other investment (besides cash) then I recommend that you invest 1% to 25% of your income into bitcoin, and so in the end that leaves you a lot of flexibility.  As far as shitcoins, I recommend only to invest up to 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment into shitcoins, so hopefully you are not reading me wrong into believing that you invest 90% of your portfolio into bitcoin or 90% of your networth, since I am not saying that, but if you have a cashflow and you have established a what are your expenses, and so you have a certain amount of you income that is available to invest, then usually you want to have a minimum of 3-6 months of cash (or other relatively liquid funds) available to cover various shortages of your cashflow and you should also have some extra amounts that are emergency cashflow.  You should have those kinds of systems in place before you invest into anything, but sometimes you can build the emergency cashflow and the BTC holdings at the same time with a kind of target  of getting to 3-6 months of emergency cash that is not bitcoin. 

Let's say for example, you make $1k per month, but you know that around $700 to $800 per month are your expenses, so you ONLY have $200 to $300 left over that you could invest, so maybe if you are a beginner, you might devote half of the extra towards building up your cash reserves and the other half to buy bitcoin, but if your target it to have 6 months of cash reserves, then you might need to get to between $4,300 and $4,800 in cash reserves, and it would be your discretion whether you build your bitcoin up at the same pace, because it can take a long time to build up that amount of cash reserves if you only have $200-$300 per month to build it up, and there could be ways to consider getting your pay to exist or cutting some of your monthly expenses..and you will have much more freedom to be aggressive with your bitcoin investment once you have build a decently strong cash reserves.


But we are not talking about "other cryptocurrencies" here, so why mention such thing?  We are talking about bitcoin. Focus is good, no?


Sure anything can happen, but if we don't have any bitcoin at all, then we better start buying some rather than just looking at it and saying "anything can happen."  If we do not buy any bitcoin, then we are not preparing ourselves for bitcoin to go up, but even if we buy some bitcoin, we can still be prepared for bitcoin to go down by still having some money available, just in case BTC prices go down further after we had already bought.


There is nothing wrong with these ideas, and likely we prepare for the BTC price to go up or to go down by buying and position size and then likely if we do not know very much we continue to study, and if we are lacking in confidence regarding our lack of knowledge about bitcoin, then we likely need to keep our BTC position size down enough so that we are able to study and to gain confidence so that our position size is somewhat lined up with the level of our knowledge and confidence about BTC.


Hopefully we are not relying too much on blind trust, but as you mentioned earlier a kind of trust that comes from studying and understanding (as best as we can) what kind of actual factors contribute towards our having confidence in bitcoin's investment thesis.. and why we want to invest and how much we want to invest based on our having had tried our best to study reasons for and against bitcoin's investment thesis and continuing to revisit our ideas about the strength (or lack) of bitcoin's investment thesis with the passage of time and with new information we can attempt to figure out if anything that has been happening challenges our investment thesis.. and if our bitcoin investment size continues to be appropriate, then we continue to stick with it.. and it is possible that even if we continue to study bitcoin, that there may be learnings along the way that may cause us to think differently about bitcoin as compared with earlier, but at the same time the strength of our investment thesis may or may not end up changing along the way.


Holding a long time does not cause bitcoin's investment thesis to become more certain, but it could affect how we go about investing into bitcoin if we consider that we are likely going to be holding bitcoin 10, 20, 30 or more years. .but then at the same time, we might be considering that when we are earlier in our bitcoin investment journey we likely are more into building it, but then later on in the longer term, we may well be making some adjustments in regards to if we start to believe that we have accumulated enough or if there might be some preferable changes in our strategy that likely would be informed in part based on how many BTC we have had accumulated and how the BTC had performed as compared to other investments that we hold and as compared to other investments (or consumption interests) that might be available to us at various later points down the road.


Measuring market sentiment is not a very good way to figure out our own strategies, and sure it might affect us in small ways, but it should not be central in terms of our figuring out and following strategies that we have established.


That's true.


Yep, and they might be sitting a long time since one of the better things to do is to act upon plans rather than sitting around waiting, and even if the BTC price does drop, will that cause them to buy and will it make any difference towards their overall psychology in  terms of if they had just been buying all along instead of waiting for dips that may or may not happen and for the answers to unimportant (or unknowable) questions regarding whether the dip is enough of a dip or not.


Just buying regularly will have good chances to get the investor into a better mindset, and if they are worried that the BTC price is too much, then just buy less, but probably not so great to stop buying unless you have reached some kind of BTC accumulation goal that justifies making such downward adjustments to regular and ongoing BTC buys.

If we allow risk or greed to take over our mindset, then we will not be able to invest and accumulate Bitcoin at the same time with fear.
Although, I agree that our profits all depend on the amount and how frequently we click the buy button, in years to come, 1 Satoshi will be worth a hundred boxes or more, so if we can start from now to buy and hodl then we will not regret our actions because we have invested earlier, accumulated with DCA strategy without any fear or greed.

If Bitcoin's price increases, we investors will be very happy about that, but at the same time, there are others that will still want it to drop so that they can buy. Those that are praying for Bitcoin to reduce are the guys that have not yet invested, so they just sit down and wait for Bitcoin to be reduced, so that they can buy.

However, I come to think that those that want the price of Bitcoin to be reduced are the ones that are so scared and greedy. At the same time, they don't want to buy at a high price, so they are waiting for the price to reduce. (I am trying to say, people should not mix fear and greed when investing).

You are sure that the price of bitcoin will increase next year but I can never say for sure whether the price of bitcoin will increase next year.  So far I have invested in Bitcoin only with the idea of the market but I have never been able to invest in Bitcoin for sure. The market for Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is uncertain, anything can happen at any time and it is impossible to be certain about the market in advance. Try to know the Bitcoin market well and if you try to know, you will come to know at some point that no matter how confident you invest in Bitcoin, your money remains at risk. After getting enough knowledge about the market and analyzing the market, we must accept the risk that remains in the investment. Maybe our little money risk will pay off well in the future.

We have enough trust in Bitcoin and we need to use this trust to invest in Bitcoin. Whenever we make an investment relying on Bitcoin, we don't have much to worry about this investment and we can definitely hold our investment for a long time. When an investor plans to hold his investment for a long time at the beginning of the investment, he goes a step ahead in getting better returns from his investment.

Seriously  shitcoins tends to represent their name most times , as you've said I guess most of them are just shitty entirely  but shouldn't  there be a difference between Alt and shit ?? Just saying,  though shit coins are altcoins  but we all know why they are called shit  it's  mostly gamble like to trade shit coins

And talking about the 90% van you please talk more about the 90% , is it based on current capital or all accumulative capital in total or maybe we can just say current cash at hand for investment..??

Of course, everyone clearly knows that by continuing to keep Bitcoin for a long time, it will provide significant profits in time and I agree that you don't always have to buy large amounts, you can do it in installments with the goal that you will eventually achieve it. The halving era will be here soon. It is certain that next year there will be a significant increase, but it is possible that there will be a correction first, even though it is currently increasing.