Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 513. (Read 135878 times)

Yeah, you are right, Sir JayJuanGee. Although everyone has a different approach as to how they always like to make their allocations, which have been working for them the way they want, obviously, steadily allocating money to an emergency fund that has not yet been used would not add any profit to the money. The situation is just like keeping a lump sum of money in your safe, which is not invested anywhere and will therefore be affected by inflation.

I am of the opinion that the emergency fund should only be replenished when the initial allocation from the first paycheck has been fully utilized for the intended expenses.

Let's say, for example, that someone receives a paycheck on the first month and the person allots 20% of the salary into an emergency fund safe, and due to fewer expenses, or perhaps there were no arising expenses for that month, the emergency fund was not spent. Then there would be no need to still allocate more funds (20%) to the already existing emergency fund if the person received another pay check for the second month's salary.

If perhaps the person still has their first-month emergency fun allocation unspent, they can then allocate the 50% (20% + 30%) to their Bitcoin investment or another investment if they have any, because it will be profitless to always keep allocating more funds to emergency funds whereas they are not being spent and are not going to generate any profit.

I agree with what you said.


Well, the fact remains that everyone has their own way of doing things in order to avoid financial hardship. Your approach is not bad; when you have your expenses covered, you can always increase your Bitcoin investment allocation.

This is a wrong way to go about emergency funds, emergency funds shouldn't compulsory be in bitcoin but fiat, so that it will be very easy to have access to. Any funds that has been used to buy bitcoin should always be in bitcoin. It is not a good practice to leave funds in exchange which shows that you want to gamble with your emergency funds, which should be properly kept. What is the price of bitcoin drops drastically, it means that your emergency funds in bitcoin will depreciate, another worst scenario is that if the excahnge in which you keep the funds crash, this will be the biggest regret, because you will end up selling your bitcoin at a price that is not of your will. Remember we are looking at how it will be possible for one to hodli for 10yrs without selling a dime from your bitcoin.

The only time that is is wise to use emergency funds for bitcoin is when the emergency dunds has pilles up to an extent that, you know that no matter the level of emergency that occurs there is more than enough to take of it. You can then use some part of youe emergency funds to invest in bitcoin. It is also not a most that we will have emergency all the time.

In Bitcoin price now there are some ups and down in the movement so In times of knowing what will be the actual price of Bitcoin towards the end of September is not possible perhaps this thread was not created for Bitcoin price discussion or to no what maybe the actual price of Bitcoin so instead you could focus more on the the strategy in which you can use to enable you accumulate and hold for long with a risk free model so perhaps you shouldn't dwell on knowing what will be the actual price of Bitcoin instead focus on it potential which will guide you as a roadmap were as you no that someday in the future the Bitcoin price will be great. So DCA investment mothod is always good especially for the beginners in other to be guided from over investing and the needs for reserve funds.

I quite agree with you on this. News affect price so much and so far, there is no strong news that will cause any rapid increase in price from now till the end of this month. The importance of capitalizing on the low price cannot be over-emphasized because price will drastically rise as we  approach next year given the line of bullish events next year. A decisive DCA from now to December, can enable one accumulate sizeable Bitcoin.... this is my suggestion.
[/quote]
When no strong news is released, the price seems not to go anywhere. It could stabilize or go down for a little. But we do not need to worry about that as we have more opportunities to buy back at this level price.

We can only accumulate more from now on until the price is back to $40k or wherever you like. The investor already accumulated when the price was at $17k but they still do that at this moment.

If you put your emergency funds into Bitcoin, there are chances that you will be forced to sell some of your Bitcoin when you did not plan. This has the tendency of harming your portfolio as well as your psychology especially when you realized you sold at a very wrong time. In other words, it is not a good situation to be as it is possible you might get too comfortable selling when you should be buying.

Since we cannot really tell how things will pan out in life, it is always good to plan against any eventuality. So emergency funds should be kept for what the title says likewise investment funds... this is the way to live comfortably today and at the same time plan for the future. There have been instances of people who use their school fees to buy Bitcoin with the hope that they will sell, make profits from there they can pay their school fees. Unfortunately, they bought at the peak and market never gave them the opportunity to see any reasonable profit. Some end up selling in regrets. There are many other bad habits people have that can be called gambling.

I quite agree with you on this. News affect price so much and so far, there is no strong news that will cause any rapid increase in price from now till the end of this month. The importance of capitalizing on the low price cannot be over-emphasized because price will drastically rise as we  approach next year given the line of bullish events next year. A decisive DCA from now to December, can enable one accumulate sizeable Bitcoin.... this is my suggestion.

In the end, this whole thing boils down to what is convenient for each of us because as our faces differ, so does our interests and approach. The main achievement of our discussion here is to analyze what is generally workable and easy to use for many people. This is the very reason DCA, that stand out among the many methods, dominated as the focus. I know not everyone who own Bitcoin will love the approach and that is why it all return to the individual to choose what is best for him.

Don't you think you are mistaken DCA for other methods of buying Bitcoin? I'm saying this because DCA by definition does not really factor in the market sentiment as well as the price. The main focus is usually how to buy in such a way that it will be continuous at a define interval of time. The price and market sentiment are not usually considered to influence DCA unless I am wrong.
 
The above chart is Ethereum features. If I'm not wrong, our focus here should be Bitcoin so I don't really get the point you are making with Ethereum chart.

It's hard as we are now in September which is almost the end. I also doubt the price can get back to $30k by this month.

All can happen if one big news boosts the price such as Elon going back to accepting Bitcoin or another country accepting Bitcoin as a legal tender. But that is not easy.

Yes, DCA investment should continue as the price is still below $30k. It's a good price to buy

Emergency fund is not recommended for investing in bitcoin but no bad to use it because put emergency fund in bitcoin have potential in the future price keep increasing than hold in pocket only, not really difficult for withdrawing emergency fund when saving in Bitcoin due put or hold in exchange wallet and when emergency happening to us we can sell and withdraw to bank account without take 10 minutes. No one can't predicting when happening with something urgent for us and my opinion better put emergency fund in bitcoin investment and seems the same when have parent hold or save their money allocated for children education. Hold in the bank can make it double although we start investing when our children under two or three years and take at seven or ten years later. Its very important allocated our fund for children cost but effective when saving or put in Bitcoin.

Am I rejecting all these factors? No, not at all DCA is a long-term efficient way of accumulation with some other strategies you can even make it efficient and rewarding for yourself, Sentiments are not temporary but what are talking about market always moves with the sentiments, and a better entry zone is required even for the DCA. Yes, you don't need charting, and I have never endorsed that you need charting with DCA as here we are not discussing BTC from the trader's point of view we are here from the investor's point of view.

Have a look and try to understand what I'm talking about are you really thinking imposing DCA on any timeline without proper strategy execution will work for you (that's a myth). Failed DCA Strategy When Buying Bitcoin

I can discuss it again, maybe I can help you or you can help me...

---

Hmm, Yes sir considering my registration time or even as I'm familiar with the market even before registering on the forum, I made some mistakes in my early days when the market was moving on its peek time so, from my experience I did improve my journey by learning and executing those strategies until now as per my goal I'm moving gradually. I wont say I have a more significant amount comparing to others but according to my own boundaries I'm doing well, at least in my zone.


Sir, I'm aware of it and I do realize that market sentiments are just temporary influencers of the market, but as investors, we need to realize in which zone we are, whether it is a distribution zone, Accumulation zone, or profit booking zone so we need to shape our investment strategy with DCA accordingly this is what I'm trying to express by using the term sentiments Because we can judge the zone with the sentiments only. As I said in my last post past few weeks were a golden opportunity for efficient accumulation even for the DCA strategists. Why I'm saying all this a more couple of the upcoming weeks will answer.

I was impressed by your statement above "keep buying BTC and revalue your position in 3-5 years from now" and yes. I think the DCA investment model should continue. Well, I want to know. Can Bitcoin get back $34,000 by the end of September 2023?

Looks like gobble-dee-gook to me.  If you have a long investment time horizon, then just keep buying BTC and reassess where you are at 3-5 years from now.  If we go by your forum registration date, you have already been in BTC for a bit more than a year, so maybe you have been able to accumulate some BTC during that time, and maybe you are not yet in profits, but whether you continue to accumulate more or not has to do with your own situation in terms of how many BTC you have already accumulated and what the rest of your personal circumstances look like...

trying to figure out what might or might happens in the market in the short-term is another question that may not really matter too much, including nonsense discussions of sentiment.  You really are likely to get yourself into trouble if you are trying to figure out what to do based on market sentiments rather than just having some kind of a solid plan that is based on your own finances and psychology rather than giving very many shits about how the other people in the market might feel about bitcoin.

Emergency funds for some of them are not to be taken to invest, but rather emergency funds for their living needs when they are pressed by a disaster that occurs, be it a flood, earthquake or the death of a relative. So they can use the emergency funds for that, instead of selling  assets/bitcoins they own. In fact, what you explained is not wrong, but the term might be better used as cushion funds or reserve assets that they can take so they don't miss the stage of their purchase.

After everything has been successfully adjusted to good planning, of course long-term investments can run according to their plans because they have managed their financial levels without disrupting the course of their investments. We have even heard that they often sell their BTC holdings due to pressure from the situation they are experiencing, so this is where emergency funding arises that must be considered.

Your explanation certainly makes sense because applying the DCA strategy of course you don't have to be skilled at reading charts because you make purchases at every stage when you start. DCA is the most admired strategy for those making long-term investments, either for the next 10 years or 20 years. But basically when there is a question from someone from your relative why you buy at a high price when you can wait to buy at a low price (well in this perception you can give an answer if I will calculate the average purchase entry when I reach the peak to exit at  in the next 10 years) it will make them amazed by your answer.

Well, at the level of adjusting the emergency fund, this is not very important for some people because if they get a weekly income they will adjust the percentage level they will use in Bitcoin investment, even so it will be in line with their concept without any obstacles that can hinder them. On the other hand, if your income does not determine where you pursue odd jobs (sometimes you work or not) of course the level of adjustment for emergency funds is quite necessary so that you don't miss a purchase step. Well, emergency funds are of course prioritized to cover gaps when you don't get income at that time, so you can use emergency funds at that time. Isn't it like that?

Of course that is the most convenient way at the moment but in the future I will readjust how to distribute the budget more evenly and larger on bitcoin investment, as I said I want to increase the strong fund first so that it is safer and stronger for a few months the rest can focus on bitcoin defensively by increasing the DCA.

I believe many of them do that such as 30% bitcoin investment 10% emergency fund the rest of the needs to cover a month, for now it should be more adjusted again and strategize a good budget over the long term for bitcoin investment.

Isn't it for the DCA strategy to walk all the way to not need to think about market sentiment? Because in my opinion this is only temporary while DCA is long-term which continues to run every week.

Even for now I don't need any chart analysis with DCA purchases when the money is ready then I buy no matter what the price is because DCA is buying at an dollar cost average.

Hmm, with that I think they need to learn how far their DCA is moving effectively with the market sentiments I'm saying that this month was a great opportunity for those who involve themselves in accumulation with DCA. As far as this month's sentiments really improved the outcome of DCA the investors need to realize that while getting involved in DCA are they really meeting the market sentiments.

Have a look at the market scenarios, I've gotten this a day before.. Seems like it can perfectly fit in the recent market sentiments.

You should not be presuming that the same kinds of balances are going to need to be in place for all investors, and sure when you start out investing you are going to be in a certain place in which you hardly have anything to add up that is in your investment portfolio, yet sometime between 3-10 years investing (whether in bitcoin or any other thing), you may well start to get to or to exceed 1 year's income (living costs) inside of your investment portfolio.  A lot of investment and cash management advisors, will suggest somewhere in the ballpark of 6 months income (living expenses) as an emergency fund, and personally, I am not so strict on such a rule or such an emergency fund being maintained at all times, even though I do believe that 6 months is a pretty decent guideline regarding how to think about how any of us might deal with a variety of scenarios that might come our way in which we are going to need liquidity (or cash/value to be available in our local currency).

If we set some standards for ourselves, we should be trying to consider why we are setting such standards and also to consciously realize the extent to which we are deviating from such standard or if it might not be a good idea to deviate from the standard if we are not sure why it exists, so sometimes we do end up having to experience a variety of scenarios in order for the importance of certain practices start to make more sense - and it could be that if we take a real whimpy and/or conservative approach towards investing into bitcoin, such as $10 per week when our budget would allow $100-200 per week, then we might not have to worry about any of the bitcoin related matters because they are relatively a smaller amount of our budget, but then if the price of BTC ends up going up faster and/or higher than our other investments, we might start to realize that there were real world consequences that ended up playing out and perhaps causing us some regrets regarding choices that we made earlier in our lives and we are unable to turn back the clock for some of our decisions, even if we may well have been truly and sincerely convinced that we were doing the thing that was best for our current self and our future self, but we ended up being wrong.


Yes, but none of us are going to know for sure if we are going to be happy with the results.  We might believe that we are happy with what we are doing, but we are also not going to really know the results, so we just have to do our best, and some of us will end up being more correct than others in terms of reaching a balance that works for us in the short term, in the process of the investment, and later when it comes time to start to reap the fruit of our earlier investments and our investment strategies, if any.


Well, you may well have to make a lot of adjustments along the way, but sure there is no problem making a plan and then trying to stick with it, but you might have to tweak such plan at various points. .and you will likely become more informed about your plan as you see results and if the results end up deviating somewhat from your base-case projections.

Let's say that you started investing in BTC around 10 years ago, so at the time that you got started in bitcoin you already had around a $100k investment portfolio, and you wanted to bring bitcoin up to about 10% of that portfolio. so you more or less want to get up to 10% and then thereafter to reassess.. And so if you start to invest $100 per week into bitcoin, then it is going to take you around 2 years or perhaps a bit more to get to 10%, but then if the bitcoin and the other assets perform differently, then it could end up contributing towards your reconsideration of the matter. .. your overall assessment is that you realize that bitcoin could perform better than the rest of your portfolio, but it might not, so you are merely just expecting around the same results as your overall investment portfolio, which had been around 6% per year on average.

So if you  had invested around $10k into bitcoin  (at $100 per week) starting from early 2014, then you may well have ended up accumulating right around 30 BTC.

So you might reassess and then decide to go 1 more year with the $100 per week into bitcoin, even though it is going to take you higher than 10%... so then  after 3 years investing into BTC at $100 per week, you may well have gotten to right around 40 BTC, so you may well be faced with questions regarding how to proceed.. and I am not going to say that I really know the answer because each person is likely going to need to reassess based on his her own situation about how to proceed when such surprise (or somewhat surprise) results end up playing out.

I am not sure of the resolution that each person is going to make regarding how to treat their bitcoin investment because if they had invested in bitcoin for a bit more than 2 years at $100 per week, they might have been right around 10% invested by the time early 2016 comes, but then then by the time we get to late 2016, they might be getting to 13% or so invested into BTC, which is more than their 10% expectations or maybe they maintain their allocation to keep it at 10% as compared to their other investments, but still they end up being faced with the BTC prices shooting up around 40x between late 2016 and late 2017, if we use $500 as the base price.

There may well be some needs to reassess whether continuing to DCA is a good strategy or if some other kind of an approach towards BTC accumulation might become more practical.

I personally don't really like the idea of reallocation, but if you are not very diversified, then you may well need to think about reallocation, even though letting your winners ride might also be a good approach as long as you are comfortable with your various other investments as compared with bitcoin, because sometimes when the price of one asset disproportionately goes up as compared with other investment, there are needs to assess what are your other investments and are you comfortable to keep so much of your netwealth in an asset that just went shooting up so much rather than shaving some off.. even though we are not really talking about those kinds of matters in this thread.


I don't really disagree with any of these last assessments of yours even though you are kind of crossing over the definitions of DCA, buying on dips and lump sum, and in practice they do frequently end up crossing over depending on how they are deployed.


The risk in bitcoin is not 50/50, even though short-term price moves could be 50/50, but if you are investing into bitcoin over 4-10 years or even longer than that 20-30 years, the risk is not 50/50.

Sure you could lose all your money, but when you are investing money in the long term, you are not investing with money that you need in the short term to cover your expenses, and even if you might end up with a shorter investment time horizon of 4 years, then you still should not be thinking about the short-term price moves.

Of course, you can choose to treat bitcoin however you like and get in however you like, but the thrust of the ideas of this thread is long term investing, which I personally would consider to be a minimum of 4 years from the time of any amount that you put in or any time that you add more value, it is still 4 years from the time of the new value, not from the time that you started.


FTFY  

It seems that I agree with everything you said as long as you are talking about bitcoin, which is the subject of this thread.

We are not talking about "crypto" here... in fact fuck crypto.. including that it is not likely that a lot of the principles of long term investing, buying on the dip and DCA do not really apply to crypto or shitcoins..,.

you gotta be careful if you try to apply these same presumptions of fundamental value to projects that may or may not have fundamental value, so you better spend some time figuring it out, otherwise you are going to be applying different kinds of considerations including in and out considerations...  

Anyhow, if you meant to talk about bitcoin, it seems pretty strange that you use such a vague, meaningless and dumbass word, and you've done it more than once.. .. hopefully, you learn how to use the term bitcoin, if you are talking about bitcoin, and if you happen to be talking about something else, you likely need to explain what it is that you are talking about rather than speaking in gobble-dee-gook and meaningless language... and there would be no excuse to say, everyone else does.. .. if that is what some members here might be thinking.. so what if other people speak in retarded language? We are talking about bitcoin here. so hopefully we are not using retarded terms without at least having a context for why we are using such terms.


Hopefully, emergencies are not happening very frequently.

Don't get your emergency funds mixed up with the likelihood that some of your incoming cashflow and your expenses vary.  The variance of your cashflow versus your expenses should not be an emergency because you can project out those kinds of matters and put them within a range.  Emergencies might not happen for many years, but if you engage in sloppy practices of projecting out your cashflow and your expenses, then perhaps emergencies are happening way more frequently than they should be.


I like these kinds of categories, yet there is still a difference in regards to how much to allocate towards something for each paycheck, but if the emergency fund is not being used, then it does not need to be allocated into, except if such emergency fund is getting rebuilt from having had been depleted... so when you are describing the 20% for emergency fund, you are likely just referring to something like an expectation that you might have about variance in your expenses versus your income..,. so there is difference between a variance in your income versus expenses and the replenishing of an emergency fund... even though there could be cases that might be drawn out for a decent amount of time that might amount to replenishment of a depleted emergency fund...and some members have already suggested that an emergency funds should not be touched at all, except for the purpose that they are proscribed.  I am not 100% in agreement with that view, but I surely have a lot of sympathy for that kind of a conservative and self-imposed disciplined approach.

Yeah, it's a good approach. Normally, it's a wise idea for someone to make a budget on how to spend their salary; otherwise, they may end up spending all their salary and not still be able to satisfy all their needs for that month. Even if the person is not investing in any asset, they can roughly spend all their earnings on personal needs and still might not be able to keep some funds for emergencies. Which is why It is good to always have a budget design for how you will allocate your salary and what you want for that month, and while doing so, you should know how much you need to fulfill your needs, which should be able to serve you till the next month that you will receive your next salary, how much to put in your emergency fund, and how much you can invest in bitcoin. A good budget might help you to even spend less and help you to be contained with what you have until you receive your next payment.



Do it in the way that is best comfortable for you, depending on how much you earn every week or month. Everybody's salary varies; some people can put more money into their bitcoin investment and only put less money into their emergency funds, and yet they will not be affected in any way; they will still have their needs contained until they receive their next salary and work out the new budget they also have for that month.

Some people can even invest 30% of their salary in bitcoin, 50% in their needs and bills for that month, and 20% in emergency funds, but that still depends on how much the person is earning.

It is good that you already know how important it is to keep emergency funds. Investing all of your salary in Bitcoin is not advisable because you can easily sell your coins when matters arise, so as you are investing some of your salary, you should also save some for emergency issues.
It is good to accumulate more BTC, but your accumulating strategy should be in a proper way. Although it is not a bad idea as you are using the DCA method to accumulate, you should also save funds for emergencies. An emergency can occur any moment, so it is good to get prepared for it so that when it comes you will not think about selling your coins.

Some people who don't save up for emergencies use the coins that they have accumulated for months or even years to sort out solutions to their emergency problems and, after they might have settled their emergency problems, they either start afresh to accumulate or they quit their investments, so instead of any of us to be in that category we should learn to save money for emergencies.

In Crypto, you are advised to invest what you can afford to loss.  That is the point and as a smart investor you should be able to have a budget and plan of investment so as not to be in a situation whereby you will have to start looking for where to go borrow from to sustain yourself.  Always set out small portion of your income that you know would not bother you if you invest in them.

Emergency can happen at any time and when it happens, it always requires urgent attention to resolving it. In  that case one would need to fall back to their investment  to sort themselves out. When this occurs, you will have to acknowledge the fact that investments are much worth it. Investment to me sometimes is a back up plan otherwise what is the investment there for if I can not be able to use it for myself when the need arises.

I am trying to gather fact on what you said here.
Do you mean funds can be used to invest in Bitcoin, just to keep as emergency fund? Or you mean at a point of emergency the best option to resolve problems is by tampering ones investment.
I do not think it necessary to invest your emergency fund in Bitcoin, because you are not yet into sorting out any issue at that moment and you feel using the money to invest is the best. The rate of Volatility in Bitcoin is high and you are placing yourself at a 50:50 risk. I believe it is not advisable.

I also think there are better option when your emergency fund can't meet up with challenges at the time instead of tampering with your investment. A loan can be collected from Family, Freinds or any Financial services but not your investment