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Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 513. (Read 122897 times)

copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 23, 2023, 02:24:45 AM
Each of us are likely somewhat greedy and self-interested creatures, and I am not really sure what it is about bitcoin that caused me to learn a lot more about myself, because before I came into bitcoin, I had already established dollar cost averaging ways of investing, but there was nothing in my investment history that was even close to as volatile as bitcoin and nothing that was so intricately complex of an investment that had ways in which it realistically could have impacts on a lot of different sectors of the world, so I learn about myself beyond the terms of my cashflow, measuring how many bitcoins I was accumulating (and how), my other investments, my view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, my timeline, risk tolerance, and my time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and my abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.  There were other aspects of fields of study in the world that I learned better in terms of game theory, politics, monetary theory, technology, some aspects of reading price charts and attempts at comparative analysis, predictive analysis and other areas, and surely I am not even going to proclaim to have become an expert in any of the many areas that bitcoin seems to potentially touch.

Frequently, when we learn new areas or fields of study, and we might not necessarily realize what we had not known previously, but there can also end up being a lot of ways in which we learn about the existence of many areas that still do not know very well, even if we spend a lot of time studying, and then even studying individuals versus ideas and trying to figure out the extent to rely upon authorities that we might trust and not trust, which may largely be attempts at honing and improving critical thinking skills.  

It is great to hear that you have learned so much about yourself and the world through your experience with Bitcoin. Investing in an asset like Bitcoin which is very complex and volatile, can be a great opportunity to challenge yourself to expand your knowledge and skills. Bitcoin is unique asset that has the potential to impact many sectors of the world from finance to technology and politics. It is important to stay informed and continuously educate yourself with Bitcoin and various factors that can influence its price and adoption. Overall, investing in Bitcoin can be a lifetime opportunity for personnel growth and learning.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 22, 2023, 07:17:42 PM
During the 2008-2009, I would say that I also benefited from it, not from my invested or something, but when I was lay-off that time, we were given severence pay (I was lucky), and so I didn't expect that it will be huge at least in my end during that time. So I just, used it to fuel my business and find some online jobs to continue to have money in my pocket, and to bring food in the table. But if ever I got the chance to invest on bitcoin that time or years later with that money I got, I will surely do.

And it take I guess experience for individual to really know what a financial crisis is, on how to hedge their wealth or money. It's hard but if people have undergone that experience, we can go back as far as the dotcom burst in Y2K for me. That time, I think I'm fine, working with a good company that time, with stock options and other financial benefits. But the 2008-2009 was very different for me, and it really open my eyes to look for more investments or at least find something that you can do to have a continuous money flow in your system.

But when I got into Bitcoin, ++ for my experience, and as I become older (or wiser), yeah, we need to find some leverage on something specially on what is going on around the world. We might have different opinions on bitcoin, not seeing it's worth or something, but I'm just talking about my personal experience here and it's really hard to be in a position not to have money, or if you have money the value is going down.

Of course, each of us start from differing places in terms of how much wealth we might have or how much income we might have that we might be able to invest, so it seems to me that the more that we end up investing into certain kinds of assets/currencies/properties/commodities, then the more we will pay attention to them more.

So there seem to be ways that we can better learn about ourselves and our investments by investing into things and then we start to pay more attention to which ones we are invested into.

Each of us are likely somewhat greedy and self-interested creatures, and I am not really sure what it is about bitcoin that caused me to learn a lot more about myself, because before I came into bitcoin, I had already established dollar cost averaging ways of investing, but there was nothing in my investment history that was even close to as volatile as bitcoin and nothing that was so intricately complex of an investment that had ways in which it realistically could have impacts on a lot of different sectors of the world, so I learn about myself beyond the terms of my cashflow, measuring how many bitcoins I was accumulating (and how), my other investments, my view of bitcoin as compared with other investments, my timeline, risk tolerance, and my time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets) and my abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time to consider trading, reallocating, use of leverage and/or financial instruments.  There were other aspects of fields of study in the world that I learned better in terms of game theory, politics, monetary theory, technology, some aspects of reading price charts and attempts at comparative analysis, predictive analysis and other areas, and surely I am not even going to proclaim to have become an expert in any of the many areas that bitcoin seems to potentially touch.

Frequently, when we learn new areas or fields of study, and we might not necessarily realize what we had not known previously, but there can also end up being a lot of ways in which we learn about the existence of many areas that still do not know very well, even if we spend a lot of time studying, and then even studying individuals versus ideas and trying to figure out the extent to rely upon authorities that we might trust and not trust, which may largely be attempts at honing and improving critical thinking skills.   
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1655
March 22, 2023, 06:35:44 PM
During the 2008-2009, I would say that I also benefited from it, not from my invested or something, but when I was lay-off that time, we were given severence pay (I was lucky), and so I didn't expect that it will be huge at least in my end during that time. So I just, used it to fuel my business and find some online jobs to continue to have money in my pocket, and to bring food in the table. But if ever I got the chance to invest on bitcoin that time or years later with that money I got, I will surely do.

And it take I guess experience for individual to really know what a financial crisis is, on how to hedge their wealth or money. It's hard but if people have undergone that experience, we can go back as far as the dotcom burst in Y2K for me. That time, I think I'm fine, working with a good company that time, with stock options and other financial benefits. But the 2008-2009 was very different for me, and it really open my eyes to look for more investments or at least find something that you can do to have a continuous money flow in your system.

But when I got into Bitcoin, ++ for my experience, and as I become older (or wiser), yeah, we need to find some leverage on something specially on what is going on around the world. We might have different opinions on bitcoin, not seeing it's worth or something, but I'm just talking about my personal experience here and it's really hard to be in a position not to have money, or if you have money the value is going down.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 22, 2023, 06:25:08 PM
Many times in this thread (and even in this forum), we have discussed, how any of us might deal with information that we hear about bitcoin in current times, and we cannot even necessarily presume that people know what bitcoin is, merely because they have heard the word or they have heard other people talk about bitcoin in various kinds of ways, so even in current times, there are a lot of people who think (believe) that they sufficiently and adequately know what bitcoin is merely because they have heard the word and they had spent some time learning about bitcoin, yet part of the problem remains that there is a lot of bad (and misleading) information out there, and so in that regard, it could take hundreds of hours of studying bitcoin before starting to assure one's self that s/he is starting to understand bitcoin and to sufficiently/adequately be able to differentiate the better information about bitcoin from the not so good information about bitcoin.  I am not even suggesting that it is easy to do, even though it is quite likely that we are still in a state in which there would be way more people investing into bitcoin if they actually understood it a bit better.. so in those regards, we remain in quite early days in bitcoin's adoption.. and $1 million prices can come to bitcoin fairly easily.. but it is likely still going to take a decent amount of time to get there, and of course, there are no guarantees that the path to $1million will be straight up, or that there will not be a lot of battles and pain along the way, including a variety of ways in which bitcoin HODLers are forcefully separated from their coins, in part due to their failure/refusal to sufficiently and adequately study/understand what is bitcoin.

In deed, it is crucial to view any information in context of our decision rather than dwelling on past mistakes or missed opportunities. Since Bitcoin is constantly evolving technology that can be difficult to understand fully, however by acknowledging our previous mistakes and utilizing current knowledge/information, we can adjust our strategies accordingly.

It is also vital to stay informed and up-to-date on developments in Bitcoin ecosystem as new information can impact its market price. Keeping an open mind and continuously learning about Bitcoin can help to make informed decisions.

I know that when I first got into bitcoin, in late 2013, I was at a place in my life in which I was specifically looking for new kinds of investing.. and bitcoin fit into my target (kind of investing that I was looking for) and I felt that I had time to "look into it" and to "spend time with it."

I cannot completely blame anyone who believes that s/he "does not have time" to look into bitcoin.. and I realize that in the life of any particular person, priorities change based upon what kinds of things they are pursuing whether they are engaged in professional explorations or even lifestyle priorities, yet one interesting aspect of bitcoin should be that the perilous nature of the whole fiat-based economic system may well be rearing its head and forcing questions about the whole fiat-based economic system to be brought into question in ways that were not as much present in the 90s and in the 00s.. and surely, I recall that I was NOT even that worried about the 2008-related shenanigans, because I had some movement of my investments that were fairly lucky in terms of pulling some value out of equities in 2007, and then slowly injecting value back into equities between 2009 and 2011.. so in some ways, I profited from the 2008 drop because co-incidentally, I had pulled some out.. but that was likely largely a kind of luck that did not really inspire me into "looking" into matters at that time, because I largely felt that my various investments (at that point of my life) were mostly working for me... and little by little i was getting ahead and ongoingly building wealth.. even though I was not thinking about things like bitcoin.

So, part of my point is that we cannot necessarily expect anyone to come to believe that they need to get involved in bitcoin, even if it seems to be becoming more clear that some kind of hedge against fiat-based-systems should be becoming more and more obvious.. especially in recent times of seeming panic from Fed reserves  and also the banking problems that seem to have some weird resolutions, and including some of the traveling restrictions and the social monitoring that seems to have had been pushed in the past few years with the "pandemic" as a kind of weird excuse that is not really seeming to "add up" as much as it sounded fine in early 2020.. but a lot of contradictions and lack of evidence has come to the forefront that may also start to inspire normal folks to want to investigate into manners in which they might be able to hedge against some of the seeming irregularities of the fiat-based systems and status quo financial investments... including that even the possibilities that we might have another real estate bubble and various other bubbles popping.... to cause questions about where to put value that can be sustained over 4-10 years or maybe even 20 to 30 years.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 21, 2023, 10:57:04 PM
Many times in this thread (and even in this forum), we have discussed, how any of us might deal with information that we hear about bitcoin in current times, and we cannot even necessarily presume that people know what bitcoin is, merely because they have heard the word or they have heard other people talk about bitcoin in various kinds of ways, so even in current times, there are a lot of people who think (believe) that they sufficiently and adequately know what bitcoin is merely because they have heard the word and they had spent some time learning about bitcoin, yet part of the problem remains that there is a lot of bad (and misleading) information out there, and so in that regard, it could take hundreds of hours of studying bitcoin before starting to assure one's self that s/he is starting to understand bitcoin and to sufficiently/adequately be able to differentiate the better information about bitcoin from the not so good information about bitcoin.  I am not even suggesting that it is easy to do, even though it is quite likely that we are still in a state in which there would be way more people investing into bitcoin if they actually understood it a bit better.. so in those regards, we remain in quite early days in bitcoin's adoption.. and $1 million prices can come to bitcoin fairly easily.. but it is likely still going to take a decent amount of time to get there, and of course, there are no guarantees that the path to $1million will be straight up, or that there will not be a lot of battles and pain along the way, including a variety of ways in which bitcoin HODLers are forcefully separated from their coins, in part due to their failure/refusal to sufficiently and adequately study/understand what is bitcoin.

In deed, it is crucial to view any information in context of our decision rather than dwelling on past mistakes or missed opportunities. Since Bitcoin is constantly evolving technology that can be difficult to understand fully, however by acknowledging our previous mistakes and utilizing current knowledge/information, we can adjust our strategies accordingly.

It is also vital to stay informed and up-to-date on developments in Bitcoin ecosystem as new information can impact its market price. Keeping an open mind and continuously learning about Bitcoin can help to make informed decisions.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 21, 2023, 09:38:23 AM
I think that bitcoin reaching $1million in 90 days is less than 1%, but sure of course, I could be wrong, and the percentage could be higher than that..... but if you even think that there are 10% odds, that seems loonie to me... Of course, anything can happen, but it seems best to attempt to stick with more likely scenarios rather than crazy ass scenarios that might also presume some kind of an armagaedon happening.. .. because if you think about matters, the whole world would really be fucked if BTC prices were to go up that fast.
You are right. When I heard such a news I found it strange and those who are in the crypto world might call such prediction as fake which is very normal thing. But what if we think positively. Did anyone think of $70k at that moment when some one could buy a pizza by paying large amount of BTC? At that time it was an unrealistic fantasy to think the price of $70k. But at one point BTC reached that price. Now it is hard to believe the statement that BTC will go to 1 million in 90 days but it can happen, it is possible. According to the expectation of 1 million should not be invested but we can see its potential. I think if it is 100k instead of 1 million then what is bad? As such I think there is still that time to buy bitcoin.

There have been high side price scenarios in bitcoin since before I got involved in studying bitcoin (in late 2013), when I got into bitcoin, there were already scenarios for $1million bitcoin, and of course, since bitcoin's then existence and price history were shorter, those kinds of claims seemed way more speculative (and theoretical) rather than fact-based, so the passage of an additional 9 years.. or even to witness bitcoin operating for more than 14 years can provide quite a bit more confidence in terms of the growth patterns of various network effects - including the studying of the network categories that had been outlined by Trace Mayer around 2015 - https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-seven-network-effects-of-bitcoin/

Even in this post from late 2014 shows a projection for $1 million bitcoin for mid-2026.. and I am pretty sure that there were threads on the topic that went up to $1million or more per bitcoin that were earlier than 2013.

So in some sense, we are debating more about when $1 million rather than if $1 million, even if the "if" part is not 100% certain either....

Of course, one of our more recent entrants into the bitcoin space (Greg Foss), suggests that his model for $2 million bitcoin is a conservative one, and he does not want to place a timeline on his projection because there is a lot of uncertainty in terms of attempting to project both price and time (even though in this article, Foss seems to be suggesting $2 million per bitcoin by 2031), and Foss's projection is using "today's dollar value" rather than relying upon either inflation or a debasement of the dollar in order to achieve those kinds of bitcoin price trajectory values.

And regarding the pizza story in which Laszlo bought two pizzas for 10k bitcoin, don't get fooled by that.. because it hardly even matters regarding how many bitcoin that Laszlo used to buy those pizzas since bitcoin hardly even had any price at that time - so anyone who was "in the know" about bitcoin in May 2010 or so (hey that is already nearly a year and a half of bitcoin already being in existence and operating live), there was no price for bitcoin and hardly anyone knew about bitcoin.. so there is a lot of purpose to just start to network out bitcoin into various parts of the community and to even to start to engage in various kinds of price discovery.. which seemed to have had started right around the time (or soon after Laszlo's pizza transaction).

Frequently any of us who are hearing about bitcoin are faced with dealing with the information at the time that we find out about it, and surely if we made mistakes in the past or failed/refused to act upon information in the past, then hopefully we can learn from those mistakes and figure out strategies to deal with what we are going to do about our bitcoin exposure in current times rather than speculating too much about the past (beyond merely attempting to learn from those dynamics and attempting to consider those various past dynamics within a context that helps us to better learn about bitcoin's history - pricewise and otherwise).

Many times in this thread (and even in this forum), we have discussed, how any of us might deal with information that we hear about bitcoin in current times, and we cannot even necessarily presume that people know what bitcoin is, merely because they have heard the word or they have heard other people talk about bitcoin in various kinds of ways, so even in current times, there are a lot of people who think (believe) that they sufficiently and adequately know what bitcoin is merely because they have heard the word and they had spent some time learning about bitcoin, yet part of the problem remains that there is a lot of bad (and misleading) information out there, and so in that regard, it could take hundreds of hours of studying bitcoin before starting to assure one's self that s/he is starting to understand bitcoin and to sufficiently/adequately be able to differentiate the better information about bitcoin from the not so good information about bitcoin.  I am not even suggesting that it is easy to do, even though it is quite likely that we are still in a state in which there would be way more people investing into bitcoin if they actually understood it a bit better.. so in those regards, we remain in quite early days in bitcoin's adoption.. and $1 million prices can come to bitcoin fairly easily.. but it is likely still going to take a decent amount of time to get there, and of course, there are no guarantees that the path to $1million will be straight up, or that there will not be a lot of battles and pain along the way, including a variety of ways in which bitcoin HODLers are forcefully separated from their coins, in part due to their failure/refusal to sufficiently and adequately study/understand what is bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 938
Merit: 292
March 21, 2023, 08:06:52 AM
I think that bitcoin reaching $1million in 90 days is less than 1%, but sure of course, I could be wrong, and the percentage could be higher than that..... but if you even think that there are 10% odds, that seems loonie to me... Of course, anything can happen, but it seems best to attempt to stick with more likely scenarios rather than crazy ass scenarios that might also presume some kind of an armagaedon happening.. .. because if you think about matters, the whole world would really be fucked if BTC prices were to go up that fast.
You are right. When I heard such a news I found it strange and those who are in the crypto world might call such prediction as fake which is very normal thing. But what if we think positively. Did anyone think of $70k at that moment when some one could buy a pizza by paying large amount of BTC? At that time it was an unrealistic fantasy to think the price of $70k. But at one point BTC reached that price. Now it is hard to believe the statement that BTC will go to 1 million in 90 days but it can happen, it is possible. According to the expectation of 1 million should not be invested but we can see its potential. I think if it is 100k instead of 1 million then what is bad? As such I think there is still that time to buy bitcoin.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 21, 2023, 01:20:31 AM

Don't get me wrong in terms of my seeming conservativism, because I do believe that there are ways to plan for outrageous scenarios, and I do believe that it is better to plot out some kind of plan in the event that outrageous scenarios were to happen in either direction which may well include selling some BTC if the price were to go up really quickly like that... but I surely cannot tell you how much I believe would be prudent to sell, and we are getting off of the topic of this thread.. with such fantasies. .that's for sure, but we are not really off  of the topic of this thread to figure out personal strategies how to plan for the possibility for outrageous events, and if the event seems outrageous, and if you believe that it is 5% likely to happen, then you should not put anymore than 5% of your preparations into such an event.

I appreciate your insights and completely agree with your viewpoint on planning for unexpected and extreme scenarios. Being prepared for unforeseen event is always better than being caught off guard. When it comes to selling Bitcoin, it is important to make informed decisions based on personnel financial situation, risk tolerance and investment goals.

Allocating resources towards preparing for outrageous event is a wise decision, but it is also crucial to ensure that you are  not over committing towards unlikely scenarios to avoid unnecessary stress and financial strain.  

Overall, having a well-thought-out plan that takes into account potential risks and unexpected events is key to achieving long term financial stability.

legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 20, 2023, 03:11:44 PM
Part of the problem that I have been finding for several years, is that there are a lot of folks who seem to want to tout these ideas of correlation, which yeah they are likely quite true in the short-term, but the misleading aspect is that it ONLY takes a short-period of non-correlation for those who had been relying on the correlation assertion to get fucked by their own reliance - so I personally believe it is way better to start from a premise that they are not correlated.. rather than starting from a premise that they are.. and in that regard, I hardly give a ratt's ass if BTC prices and equities (stock markets) are correlated 95% of the time, and then 5% of the time, BTC ends up doing a 10x jump in comparison to stocks/equities, and then thereafter BTC ends up going back to being correlated for the next 3-4 years until it is not correlated again for another 10x jump.. . You can look back at the BTC charts and you can see those kinds of patterns of mostly correlation except for those short-periods in which the BTC price jumps up 10x, 100x or whatever, and then comes back down.

. so the fact of the matter would be that anyone who had been largely relying on correlation gets fucked during each of those periods of non-correlation because they might 1) fail to invest enough into bitcoin, or 2) they might sell too much too early.. part of the reason that bitcoin is really early in its adoption levels, and you get all kinds of folks thinking that they are smart when they sell on the way up but then the BTC price does another 5x to 10x after they sold.
You are absolutely right that this weak correlation can be misleading for some forks as it can impact their decision making to invest in Bitcoin during the dip. Starting from the premise of non-correlation, as it will force investors to examine Bitcoin buying opportunity on its own merits rather than simply assuming that it will move in lockstep with other asset.

Amidst the successive collapse of Banks in USA ,there is widespread  speculation in social media that Bitcoin is likely to reach $1 Million dollar mark in the next 3 months, please advise your expert opinion on this matter. Thanks.
https://bitcoinist.com/former-coinbase-cto-places-2-million-bet-that-bitcoin-will-hit-1-million-in-90-days/

I think that bitcoin reaching $1million in 90 days is less than 1%, but sure of course, I could be wrong, and the percentage could be higher than that..... but if you even think that there are 10% odds, that seems loonie to me... Of course, anything can happen, but it seems best to attempt to stick with more likely scenarios rather than crazy ass scenarios that might also presume some kind of an armagaedon happening.. .. because if you think about matters, the whole world would really be fucked if BTC prices were to go up that fast.

In December 2021, I had provided some estimates of time and price, and for sure whenever we are attempting to combine both time and price we have to combine the probabilities, so it becomes even less probable to combine the two..

So for example, if we really could know that there was a 50% chance that BTC prices would peak in 90 days, then we would have to lower our percentages based on the various numbers that we might assign to the peak, and if we want to attempt to capture the whole of the spectrum, we have to assign values to various points on a spectrum.. and the totality of the spectrum (of adding up 100%) should account for up, down and sideways.

On an individual level, each of us needs to be careful not to get caught up in such hype assertions, and we have to personally attempt to prepare for a variety of scenarios, to be able to buy more BTC if it goes down and also have plans for what are we going to do if the BTC price goes up or sideways, and likely our plans would be different if we assign higher probabilities to various events, but if we are not being very realistic about the percentages that we assign, then we are likely to either suffer or to not benefit.

Don't get me wrong in terms of my seeming conservativism, because I do believe that there are ways to plan for outrageous scenarios, and I do believe that it is better to plot out some kind of plan in the event that outrageous scenarios were to happen in either direction which may well include selling some BTC if the price were to go up really quickly like that... but I surely cannot tell you how much I believe would be prudent to sell, and we are getting off of the topic of this thread.. with such fantasies. .that's for sure, but we are not really off  of the topic of this thread to figure out personal strategies how to plan for the possibility for outrageous events, and if the event seems outrageous, and if you believe that it is 5% likely to happen, then you should not put anymore than 5% of your preparations into such an event.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 20, 2023, 05:35:20 AM

Part of the problem that I have been finding for several years, is that there are a lot of folks who seem to want to tout these ideas of correlation, which yeah they are likely quite true in the short-term, but the misleading aspect is that it ONLY takes a short-period of non-correlation for those who had been relying on the correlation assertion to get fucked by their own reliance - so I personally believe it is way better to start from a premise that they are not correlated.. rather than starting from a premise that they are.. and in that regard, I hardly give a ratt's ass if BTC prices and equities (stock markets) are correlated 95% of the time, and then 5% of the time, BTC ends up doing a 10x jump in comparison to stocks/equities, and then thereafter BTC ends up going back to being correlated for the next 3-4 years until it is not correlated again for another 10x jump.. . You can look back at the BTC charts and you can see those kinds of patterns of mostly correlation except for those short-periods in which the BTC price jumps up 10x, 100x or whatever, and then comes back down.

. so the fact of the matter would be that anyone who had been largely relying on correlation gets fucked during each of those periods of non-correlation because they might 1) fail to invest enough into bitcoin, or 2) they might sell too much too early.. part of the reason that bitcoin is really early in its adoption levels, and you get all kinds of folks thinking that they are smart when they sell on the way up but then the BTC price does another 5x to 10x after they sold.


You are absolutely right that this weak correlation can be misleading for some forks as it can impact their decision making to invest in Bitcoin during the dip. Starting from the premise of non-correlation, as it will force investors to examine Bitcoin buying opportunity on its own merits rather than simply assuming that it will move in lockstep with other asset.

Amidst the successive collapse of Banks in USA ,there is widespread  speculation in social media that Bitcoin is likely to reach $1 Million dollar mark in the next 3 months, please advise your expert opinion on this matter. Thanks.

https://bitcoinist.com/former-coinbase-cto-places-2-million-bet-that-bitcoin-will-hit-1-million-in-90-days/
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 19, 2023, 02:33:49 PM
For years there have been people who have been basing their investment choices into bitcoin based on what they believe that the fed will do and/or other macro factors, and they have been touting out nonsense regarding how bitcoin prices are correlated to equities, fed rates and various other macro factors like that, and sure there may well be some short term correlation, but a lot of people have gotten fucked because they fail/refuse to appreciate the reality that bitcoin is way less correlated than what the various pundits are proscribing it to be.
It is accurate to say  that there may be short-term correlation between Bitcoin and other macro factors, such as equities or interest rates, but the strength of this correlation  can vary widely and may not be consistent over the long term. In fact, Bitcoin correlation with traditional assets like stocks and bonds is relatively low, which makes it a potentially valuable diversification tool for investors.

Part of the problem that I have been finding for several years, is that there are a lot of folks who seem to want to tout these ideas of correlation, which yeah they are likely quite true in the short-term, but the misleading aspect is that it ONLY takes a short-period of non-correlation for those who had been relying on the correlation assertion to get fucked by their own reliance - so I personally believe it is way better to start from a premise that they are not correlated.. rather than starting from a premise that they are.. and in that regard, I hardly give a ratt's ass if BTC prices and equities (stock markets) are correlated 95% of the time, and then 5% of the time, BTC ends up doing a 10x jump in comparison to stocks/equities, and then thereafter BTC ends up going back to being correlated for the next 3-4 years until it is not correlated again for another 10x jump.. . You can look back at the BTC charts and you can see those kinds of patterns of mostly correlation except for those short-periods in which the BTC price jumps up 10x, 100x or whatever, and then comes back down.

. so the fact of the matter would be that anyone who had been largely relying on correlation gets fucked during each of those periods of non-correlation because they might 1) fail to invest enough into bitcoin, or 2) they might sell too much too early.. part of the reason that bitcoin is really early in its adoption levels, and you get all kinds of folks thinking that they are smart when they sell on the way up but then the BTC price does another 5x to 10x after they sold.

Failing to buy sometimes gets folks not being sufficiently aggressive in their investment into BTC, getting scared to buy when it dips or even waiting for further dips.  Yeah, even newbies and whimpy investors may well end up profiting quite stupendously from being invested into BTC if they do not make major mistakes, and surely I consider the non-investment and under investment into bitcoin to be more dangerous than the over-investment, even though in this last cycle, we did get to witness plenty of examples of the mistakes on the other end in terms of over-investing into bitcoin in such a way that either leveraging was taking place or there was a certain expectation that BTC prices would not drop below certain price points (and the 200-week moving average was one of those price points that a lot of over-leveraged folks had used as their expectation of absolute BTC price bottom.. and we even witnessed examples of normies and newbies becoming vulnerable because they ended up relying on the good will of other folks over their bitcoin and they were either wanting to get yield from their bitcoin or they had not necessarily realized that they third parties were playing like degenerate gamblers with such yield products (but using their coins to engage in such gambling that was expecting the BTC price to NOT go below certain price points, such as the 200-week moving average. 

For sure, it is not completely clear how to protect oneself from those kinds of contagions in the space, and even if we might suggest that those are examples in which BTC's correlation/non-correlation to the stock market is muddied, ultimately, I still am going to assert that it is likely quite misleading to expect that BTC prices are correlated to equities and stocks.. even if there are a lot of otherwise smart people making those kinds of claims.  Good luck with those kinds of seemingly (and likely) inferior reliances.. since another thing those kinds of inferior reliances also tend to demonstrate (at least for me) that there is some level of failing/refusing to understanding the actual power (of non-correlation) that comes from a new innovative/disruptive/face-melting/paradigm-changing (peaceful wealth transferring) asset class, such as bitcoin.. even if there are a lot of times that "my lil precious" doesn't appear to be anything "special".. and those who buy into bitcoin seem to be delusional and pie-in-the-sky wishful thinkers.. which sure some of them are..... but should not take away from the foundational strengths that actually exist within what bitcoin actually is.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 19, 2023, 02:06:42 AM
For years there have been people who have been basing their investment choices into bitcoin based on what they believe that the fed will do and/or other macro factors, and they have been touting out nonsense regarding how bitcoin prices are correlated to equities, fed rates and various other macro factors like that, and sure there may well be some short term correlation, but a lot of people have gotten fucked because they fail/refuse to appreciate the reality that bitcoin is way less correlated than what the various pundits are proscribing it to be.

It is accurate to say  that there may be short-term correlation between Bitcoin and other macro factors, such as equities or interest rates, but the strength of this correlation  can vary widely and may not be consistent over the long term. In fact, Bitcoin correlation with traditional assets like stocks and bonds is relatively low, which makes it a potentially valuable diversification tool for investors.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 18, 2023, 09:18:10 AM
Whether you buy the dip, or you DCA.. or you HODL ... or you do some variation of that, if your investment timeline is 4-10 years or longer, you are likely coming across more cash during that time and you are likely witnessing a decent amount of BTC price volatility along the way.. so yeah, if you are able to figure out when and where the dips are, then you are likely going to be better off by being able to time the buying of BTC during the various dips.. yet it seems to me that figuring out the dips and getting it right is not an easy task, so any of us who are in bitcoin for a decent amount of time and are continuing to add to our position with the passage of time, we are likely going to realize that sometimes we are just throwing up our hands and just sucking it up.. and buying at whatever price because we are having difficulties figuring out whether the BTC price is going to dip more and also we might well be able to see that we are accumulating cash with the passage of time and we would rather store some of that cash in bitcoin rather than continuing to hold it in cash and waiting for a dip that may or may not come.
Your insights about difficulties of timing the market and accurately predicting the dips in Bitcoin price are accurate. It is true that investing in Bitcoin is a long term game to make your investment profitable. It is also important to have a well thought out plan that aligns with your investment goals and risk tolerance. Dollar cost average (DCA) is a popular strategy to mitigate the impact of market volatility but we should keep in mind  that no investment strategy is entirely fool proof and there are always risk involved with investment.

I am not really sure if your response is saying much of anything.**

(**ps.. I am not proclaiming to be saying much of anything either.. even though I felt somewhat compelled to attempt a response.... so there is that angle, too)..

We can choose to invest or not to invest into anything...  and those are investments of time, energy, psychology and financial value... invest or consume... or maybe there are more ways to frame our choices?

We can also choose how much to allocate to any investment, including choosing not to invest anything or to do nothing, which may well still add up to something similar to not investing anything.

Sometimes when we are young, we are not sure what we do not know, and so we are learning along the way, and surely some people start out with bad information, bad circumstances and bad options (or at least not very many options), and sometimes they can make choices to increase the odds that they will do better in life or that they might end up doing worse in life than what they could have had done.

Some folks have to work harder than others, and sometimes the hard work does not end up paying off, and maybe it could be more guaranteed that a person will not advance if they do not make any preparations to invest in themselves in various kinds of ways - and sometimes any of us could be presented with opportunties at certain ages, but those opportunities might not be available at later points in our lives, so if we do not choose at a certain point when we are in our 20s, we might not be able to make similar choices in our 30s, 40s or 50s because those opportunities to invest versus consume are no longer available.

In regards, to the bitcoin price it is possible that this week is the last time ever that prices will be below $30k, so there could be an opportunity to invest..

But the fact of the matter remains that we do not know, and we could be kicking ourselves if we took out a loan for all of our income for the next 5 years and we invested it into bitcoin at $27.5k, but then for the next 5 years, bitcoin prices end up getting stuck between $5k and $15k until the year 2028.... so then our investment ended up NOT paying off in a positive way, and we would have had been better off to just invest with money coming in rather than to front load our investment into bitcoin.

There are other ways that the future ends up playing out that our investment pays off stupendously, and our leveraging (including our having had taken out a loan - almost in a gambling capacity) had paid off way more than a more strict approach that relied only upon our income as it comes in.

Some folks are more inclined to gamble with the various ways that they invest, and surely some of us (including yours truly) would proclaim that they are not investing because they are inadequately accounting for the various outcome directions, so even if they might be successful for a while, if they continue with that kind of practice, the odds become higher that they are going to end up either losing big time or to at least have had done worse than if they had taken a more prudent approach.. .. there are ways to be aggressive and prudent at the same time, and frequently the line is not clear... the line between investing and consumption might not be clear and the line between investing and gambling might not be clear either... yet each of us has to make our choices based on the information and resources that we have available, even if we might not actually understand the information or the resources that we have available or how that we can use our information/resources and even if there might be people in the world with better information/resources than us.. and sometimes the one with inferior information/resources will later surpass the person who had superior information/resources based on choices that had been made earlier in life.  Of course, there are no guarantees that doing the right (or better) thing will end up paying off.

Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.
You are a bit ambiguous both in terms of your prognostication regarding what might happen and also lack of specificity regarding what constitutes a "dip" worth buying.
#justsaying for a friend.
I can't be more specific because a mere pleb like me can't predict precisely where Bitcoin will go.

Of course, no one can predict, and some folks have better information views than others, and some people figure out better ways to "play" their options/outlooks than others.

I'm simply making a shower thought/musing that because inflation remains to be sticky, the Federal Reserve might be more aggressive in tightening/QT to reduce demand to bring inflation down. I believe THAT will bring forth a recession. The "soft landing" the Federal Reserve wants is improbable.

If the Federal Reserve pauses QT and rate hikes, or do the worse, PIVOT and actually reduce rates/start QE, inflation will go up and also bring forth a recession. It might be worse, a depression.

Yes.  There are ways to play your bitcoin options that give a lot of weight to that or alternatively there are ways to play your bitcoin option in ways that attempt to account for more important (and other) variables... in order that you are largely prepared for no matter what ends up happening....

For years there have been people who have been basing their investment choices into bitcoin based on what they believe that the fed will do and/or other macro factors, and they have been touting out nonsense regarding how bitcoin prices are correlated to equities, fed rates and various other macro factors like that, and sure there may well be some short term correlation, but a lot of people have gotten fucked because they fail/refuse to appreciate the reality that bitcoin is way less correlated than what the various pundits are proscribing it to be.

Where does that put Bitcoin? It might crash it back near $16,000 again. Another Golden Opportunity.

Yes.. of course, anything could happen, including that the bottom of $15,479 might not be in... but also it is also possible that the bottom is in, and we will never see prices below $27k ever again.

I would suggest that it would be better to be prepared for a variety of scenarios, while at the same time appreciating that some scenarios are more likely than others, and frequently, it is not too your interest to put too much preparation into scenarios that are less likely to happen or to prepare for something that is going to cost you a lot to prepare for and it might not end up happening...

so yeah..

choices must be made regarding how much dry powder to deploy, under what circumstances and whether whatever you have been doing is already good enough or whether there is some need to tweak what you were doing to bring you into better alignment....

Not too many folks are going to know whether you are sufficiently/adequately aligned or not better than yourself, but sometimes even the self makes mistakes.. so shit does end up happening, including that we have had more than 9 months of opportunity to accumulate more bitcoin through a buying on the dip approach, so it may well be overly expecting matters in which more dip opportunities are coming... They might come, and they might not come, and hopefully, you are already sufficiently and adequately prepared for UP, just in case more dip does not end up happening.

During 2019, a surge happened too, from $3,000 to $14,000, then it went down near $3,000. Although, I'm wrong most of the time.

Yes.. I surely do remember that, and yes something like that could end up happening, or it might not.  We are not currently in 2019 - even if there could be some similar dynamics going on, yet there could be some dynamics going on that end up looking way more clear down the road after the whole matter plays out, and maybe instead of correcting back down after a 3.5x price appreciation, no correction ends up happening.

I am not going to proclaim to either know what is going to happen, but I am not going to deviate from practices that I have already established over the more than 9 years that I have been in bitcoin in that I am largely prepared for either direction and even extremes, and in my own experience, the longer that any of us has been in bitcoin, the more that we should be able to figure out how much resources we are going to put into (or hold aside) in order to prepare for extremes in either direction that might happen (or might not end up happening).
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
March 18, 2023, 05:05:25 AM
Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.

You are a bit ambiguous both in terms of your prognostication regarding what might happen and also lack of specificity regarding what constitutes a "dip" worth buying.

#justsaying for a friend.


I can't be more specific because a mere pleb like me can't predict precisely where Bitcoin will go. I'm simply making a shower thought/musing that because inflation remains to be sticky, the Federal Reserve might be more aggressive in tightening/QT to reduce demand to bring inflation down. I believe THAT will bring forth a recession. The "soft landing" the Federal Reserve wants is improbable.

If the Federal Reserve pauses QT and rate hikes, or do the worse, PIVOT and actually reduce rates/start QE, inflation will go up and also bring forth a recession. It might be worse, a depression.

Where does that put Bitcoin? It might crash it back near $16,000 again. Another Golden Opportunity. During 2019, a surge happened too, from $3,000 to $14,000, then it went down near $3,000. Although, I'm wrong most of the time.
copper member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 715
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
March 18, 2023, 12:57:52 AM

Whether you buy the dip, or you DCA.. or you HODL ... or you do some variation of that, if your investment timeline is 4-10 years or longer, you are likely coming across more cash during that time and you are likely witnessing a decent amount of BTC price volatility along the way.. so yeah, if you are able to figure out when and where the dips are, then you are likely going to be better off by being able to time the buying of BTC during the various dips.. yet it seems to me that figuring out the dips and getting it right is not an easy task, so any of us who are in bitcoin for a decent amount of time and are continuing to add to our position with the passage of time, we are likely going to realize that sometimes we are just throwing up our hands and just sucking it up.. and buying at whatever price because we are having difficulties figuring out whether the BTC price is going to dip more and also we might well be able to see that we are accumulating cash with the passage of time and we would rather store some of that cash in bitcoin rather than continuing to hold it in cash and waiting for a dip that may or may not come.

Your insights about difficulties of timing the market and accurately predicting the dips in Bitcoin price are accurate. It is true that investing in Bitcoin is a long term game to make your investment profitable. It is also important to have a well thought out plan that aligns with your investment goals and risk tolerance. Dollar cost average (DCA) is a popular strategy to mitigate the impact of market volatility but we should keep in mind  that no investment strategy is entirely fool proof and there are always risk involved with investment.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 17, 2023, 12:03:14 PM
Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.

You are a bit ambiguous both in terms of your prognostication regarding what might happen and also lack of specificity regarding what constitutes a "dip" worth buying.

#justsaying for a friend.

Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.
The bankruptcy of the SVB bank because the Fed was too harsh in raising its interest rates so that it was not only the bitcoin market that was affected but caused a threat to banks that do have a little liquidity and I think that will be a consideration not to apply aggressiveness to interest rates.
Buying every dip at the current state is a pretty good thing in my opinion, because we are not yet in the bullrun phase, because if the bullrun phase has started I think it will be very difficult to find a decline like a few days ago which caused bitcoin to turn to $ 19k, and I think it's very difficult to wait for it to happen again, most likely we will make a new dip at the current resistance price.

You are also failing/refusing to specify what you consider to be dip that would be sufficient for buying.. even though you seem to be giving some specificity when you suggest that going down to $19k is less likely than it had been.. but yeah, sure.. I am never really assured that current momentum is anything beyond temporary.. and it is really difficult to assess whether momentum has gained enough traction to give much if any confidence for UP rather than down.. in the short term, even if there does seem to be some momentum of UP.. that may well be short-lived.

By the way, I had been thinking that some of the most recent actions of various US Govt agencies (cannot always tell who is causing the outcomes) seems to have had dried up some liquidity channels that had been available 24/7, so I am not sure if that is going to cause greater difficulties to move fiat during off-hour times (such as weekends), which could cause DOWNity price pressures on the weekends if some of the players cannot move fiat around as easily... yet it could just cause more fleeing to USDT or maybe some other coins that seem to be less subjected (at least for now) towards US Banking authorities attempts at cracking down on USD-related channels... so yeah, for BTC prices to pump at any time, there is either a need for dollars to be held on exchanges or various third party channels.. or there is a need for the dollars to be able to be moved fairly rapidly (even during non-banking hours) from banks to various BTC exchanges... it will be interesting to see how the liquidity of the various channels might be affected by aspects of what seems to be "operation choke point"... even though I give few if any shits about shitcoins that might end up being used for these kinds of movement of value purposes... and will those dry up too? or get choked somewhat?
hero member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 674
March 17, 2023, 08:46:49 AM
Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.
The bankruptcy of the SVB bank because the Fed was too harsh in raising its interest rates so that it was not only the bitcoin market that was affected but caused a threat to banks that do have a little liquidity and I think that will be a consideration not to apply aggressiveness to interest rates.
Buying every dip at the current state is a pretty good thing in my opinion, because we are not yet in the bullrun phase, because if the bullrun phase has started I think it will be very difficult to find a decline like a few days ago which caused bitcoin to turn to $ 19k, and I think it's very difficult to wait for it to happen again, most likely we will make a new dip at the current resistance price.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
March 17, 2023, 08:23:45 AM
Bitcoin is surging, and it has gone over $26,000. But I'm not yet that convinced that we're starting a new bull cycle. Is it time to buy EVERY DIP? Yes. Has Bitcoin reached the bottom during November? Most probably. But because of the Macro-Economic situation around the world with inflation also surging, I believe the Central Banks might start being more aggressive to control it = more tightening. Because if the Central Banks cannot control it, inflation itself will cause a recession, and that will definitely not be good for everyone.
hero member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 674
March 16, 2023, 09:46:38 PM
The market repeats its cycle but many times painful situations are created in the market to shake out the panic sellers. And that situation is seen after the last bull market, this bear market has bankrupted many big companies.

In investing, one has to be aware of the market conditions, otherwise the expected results are not seen later. Therefore, in order to invest, it is important for an investor to look at the market conditions as well as the future potential of the market.
I think we need to look at the news that is circulating and relate it with a little analysis and that will bring together a point when we have to get out and when we have to get in. Panic always occurs due to unclear issues circulating on social. As the op said where to buy and hold, I think this option is not concerned with anything else maybe an analysis in our minds, because if we implement a gradual purchase or JJG call it DCA it doesn't matter whether the price is low or high because every week/month we have to do it every rounds and it depends on the period you make for each round.
snip
In and out of the market because of panic is because people are not long term investing oriented, paying attention to the news sentiment is good enough to be an entry indication to continue the weekly or monthly DCA, but if you have plenty of time to pay attention to it.
I really understand how panic comes when there is a decline and that is a natural thing for investors especially those who put their money in at once, now to overcome that is true, DCA is the best way to get rid of panic, because when an extreme decline occurs you can buy bitcoin at that time because the rest of your money to invest is still there, the orientation of the long-term mindset is also like that, don't care about the previous price and experience a decline because we can buy again when the decline occurs, and the sure thing is to hold bitcoin in the long term bitcoin price the previous high you bought will definitely be picked up again in the bullrun later, so the current panic due to FUD and decline is nothing in the future, because I believe that bitcoin will repeat the same cycle and the lowest price and highest price are always increases in each cycle.
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 11105
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
March 16, 2023, 08:27:11 PM
I agree with you 100%, for a new comer it is like mission impossible. They need to figure out the amount to invest? what to invest in and for how long to invest for? and then they need to asses the risk as well. And once it all gets sorted than there comes all the expectations that they will make it BIG in the market.
So the wholesome idea is to plan your strategy, implement it and than brace yourself for the worst outcome. This way the expectations stay low and you avoid making hasty decisions.
The best method for newcomers who are interested to invest in crypto industrybitcoin, is to utilizing Dollar cost average (DCA) for gradually accumulate Bitcoin and holding onto it for long term can be the most effective approach to maximizing profit . Day to day trading in Bitcoin is generally considered very risky, as Bitcoin is very volatile and highly unpredictable asset by its nature, unless you posses good technical skills to analyze charts to take informed entry and exit decisions. Additionally, to maintain good emotional control & employ risk/money management techniques is essential for successful trading.

FTFY.. Fuck shitcoins.

[edited out]
Yes, There are many ways that this can be done as you mentioned it is also true there is a market correction which is definitely always an option for the savvy as the cryptocurrency market can be very volatile with significant risks.

Why are you talking about shitcoins?

We are talking about bitcoin here.

Are you able to use the word.. "bitcoin"

Repeat after me:

"b.... i..... .t.......................c.........o.....i.........n"

 Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue


 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Buy DIP, and HODL! for me is the classic term most used and suggested. Although buying dips and holding on to the asset for the long term can be a viable strategy for some investors. My view is simple, it is important to always see where the market is going and I am sure that anyone can become a winner with a record of being able to control their emotions because trading is a psychological game that stimulates one's emotions. adrenaline of trading.

Whether you buy the dip, or you DCA.. or you HODL ... or you do some variation of that, if your investment timeline is 4-10 years or longer, you are likely coming across more cash during that time and you are likely witnessing a decent amount of BTC price volatility along the way.. so yeah, if you are able to figure out when and where the dips are, then you are likely going to be better off by being able to time the buying of BTC during the various dips.. yet it seems to me that figuring out the dips and getting it right is not an easy task, so any of us who are in bitcoin for a decent amount of time and are continuing to add to our position with the passage of time, we are likely going to realize that sometimes we are just throwing up our hands and just sucking it up.. and buying at whatever price because we are having difficulties figuring out whether the BTC price is going to dip more and also we might well be able to see that we are accumulating cash with the passage of time and we would rather store some of that cash in bitcoin rather than continuing to hold it in cash and waiting for a dip that may or may not come.
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