Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 511. (Read 122931 times)

Those who lack of money, there is no better strategy to buy Bitcoins with following DCA method. We often teach our children by hearing a story that "Slow and steady wins the race" In this case I would say that those who start the journey with faith in Bitcoin despite having limited funds will eventually reach their destination but definitely that requires patience.

About Bitcoin Bull run we have a little idea that it will be more bullish in the coming days which many of us can't imagine. Some people are thinking about $1 million price of Bitcoin and some one is anticipating that if the American dollar goes down then the price of Bitcoin can reach $10 million.
Personally I believe in Bitcoin. I would like to see it as my only asset in the long run which will act as the only guide to fulfill my dreams.

 I am going to move this to the nft/ordinal thread. As I think franky1 can't post there.

note I moved it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62070386

Not everyone agrees about whether the current BTC price is a fair price, a suppressed price or a overly exuberant price, and that seems to be how the market works in terms of working out the disagreements and part of the reason that there tends to be a lot of volatility in the price in an asset like bitcoin.. partly because it is a new asset, and people are getting used to it.

Surely some of us realize and recognize value in bitcoin that is not seen by others, and many others (including an overwhelming number of them) actually either fail/refuse to invest into bitcoin or just end up coming into bitcoin at much later times when they realize the errors of their failure/refusal to see value in it.

We are not all going to be on the same page in regards to bitcoin, yet surely many of us recognize and realize that guys/gals who have been investing into bitcoin and accumulating bitcoin for longer periods tend to improve their material and psychological conditions as long as they do not fuck around with trading and losing their focus by either trading or trying to be overly strategic in regards to their methods of accumulating bitcoin and attempting to profit from it.

People are going to make mistakes, and not everyone can be saved from making mistakes, and there remains a certain amount of personal responsibility to learn various ways to study bitcoin, study one's self in terms of finances and psychology and also to invest into bitcoin with those learnings in mind.


Surely one of the best things is to just get started in investing and tailor a strategy towards your own circumstances, and with the passage of time, such as buying BTC over several years, whether 8 years like you mentioned or 4-10 years or longer, there are going to be various points along the way that you will be able to tailor your plan and perhaps increase or decrease the amount that you are investing into bitcoin based on your from time to time reassessments of your own personal circumstances, including accounting for whether your own circumstances have changed and/or your view of bitcoin has changed as compared with other places that you might choose to invest (hopefully not shitcoins, and if you do shitcoins, hopefully you do not over do it or get drug into some of their frequently dumb gambling (and/or affinity scamming) talking points).

It would be chaotic if we ignore what our needs are, I'm sure smart people will balance between their needs as a staple and also investing as an asset for the future and of course doing it in bitcoin which is what we want, often we shouldn't ignore this and stay on the same line.


That's better than buying all at once it will only burden our finances whereas with DCA we can adjust how much the average fee for bitcoin will of course be able to adjust to our finances after all basic needs are met, I believe more in DCA by staying consistent rather than ambition buying big will only be greed and cause problems for our finances later.

Many people already believe in bitcoin because of course they expect a greater value, but we ourselves have to believe that even though the DCA is a small average fee, if we do it for years it will be big, imagine if we only do DCA for 8 years with $ 20 per week will generate $ 8k more that's the value of the total dollar what if the price of bitcoin goes up? That could be 3-5x more.

Holy fucking shit.

You could at least try to stay on topic, and then you just invite more divergence from the topic when you cannot at least present your question in a way that is relevant to the topic.

a. most miners(asic/workers) dont get fee's, the pools keep amounts equal/above fee's
b. ordinals dont pay fair rate tx fees anyway many are seen paying 0.5sat/byte instead of the rest paying 15sat/byte
c. taking upto all blockspace for one meme does not help utility of bitcoin. it annoys people that 2000tx dont get into the next block but the 1 meme did
d. ordinals in NO way has helped bitcoin. its not even an NFT
e. ordinals that dont get into blocks still push pre-confirm transaction out of potentially getting into blocks by ordinals filling up mempools thus forcing other tx out of mempools when mempools breach a X00mb limit set by their nodes

mining pools take a cut
EG
antpool has two offerings
a. PPLN antpool keeps the tx fee's.. workers take the blockreward
b. PPS+ antpool takes 2% of fees and 4% of blockreward


PPS+ is the offering where a asic worker 'might'(their wish/hope) gain something from fee's, by asking for a bit of the fee's instead of the PPLN option taking the fee's

lets imagine a block of 4mb of 1 meme paying its 0.5sat/byte
thats 0.02btc
antpool(PPS+) takes 0.0004 of tx fee 0.25 of block reward (0.2504 total)

simple math: meme gives 0.02 into the pot. but antpool cuts out 0.254 from the pot. thus workers lose out more if they opt to want a fee share

meaning in both cases antpool keep more then the tx fee if you add it all up and take their cut away in both situations because

b.(PPS+) the fee's from the ordinal are 0.02 but antpool took 0.254 away from asic workser
a.(PPLN) antpool took the 0.02 of the tx fee
thus those asic workers dont gain from increased fees they might aswel just PPLN and just take their share of only the block reward

yep fee's would need to be for a normal average tx payment filled block of 1.5mb be paying 17sat/byte to BREAK EVEN to what a pool owner takes as their cut..
for the workers to then NEED MORE THEN 17sat/byte to then be see a noticable difference to the shared income on PPS+ they get after the pool owners cut

however an average tx of 500bytes@17sat/byte=8500sat =$2.41 which.. is making people not want to use bitcoin as much for payments. thus spiting the users inspite of the workers

what workers actually prefer. is not a fee market rise to get income. but the spot price market rise.. though lemming that want to advertise other networks prefer fee rises to make people hate using bitcoin

I have a shower-thought-question for the readers of this topic. From and investor's standpoint, does Ordinals make you more bullish, or more bearish on Bitcoin, compared to 6 to 12 months ago?

Pros - Ordinals may bring more demand for block space, more rewards for miners through fees, and possibly also bring more demand for BTC.

Cons - Ordinals may be used as an attack vector for spamming the network, it stores dick pics and fart sounds in the blockchain, and it could open other attack unknown vectors.

Well you seem to be missing the point that I was making.. and the closing price for the year of 2016 was hardly the point that I was attempting to make.

A person who bought bitcoin in 2016 would have had about an average BTC price of around $550 per bitcoin and would have been able to accumulate a whole bitcoin for the whole year of 2016 for merely buying BTC for $10 per week. 

Another thing is that a person who had been accumulating BTC at $10 per week since the beginning of 2016 until present would have spent $3,790 and would have accumulated nearly 1.5 BTC.

So of course, for that particular period, buying BTC earlier would have produced much better results (and more BTC) rather than waiting, and part of the reason is that the whole of 2016 and 2017 were uptrend years for bitcoin, and even when the BTC price peaked in 2017 at $19,666, it ONLY corrected back down to $3k, so after September 2017, it was no longer possible to buy BTC below $3k..

So there may be points in time in which the BTC price moves up and even though it corrects back down, it does not correct back down nearly to anywhere even close to some of its earlier prices, adn we never know when it is going to go up like that, and there are no guarantees that it will continue to have periods of going up like that and never returning back down to certain lower price thresholds.

Yet, I am not even attempting to cherry pick BTC entry points, but merely I was asserting that even if someone starts buying at $100 per week now, they may well never be able to catch up to the size of the BTC stash for the person who started buying BTC at $10 per week and who started in early 2016.  There may be a need to be more aggressive now, if there is an attempt to try to catch up to the earlier investor, but I am not even suggesting that anyone should even try to invest into bitcoin in such a way that is beyond their means, even though I am recommending that normie newbies try to be as aggressive as they can in their BTC investing (through DCA and buying on dips) without going so far in the level of aggressiveness that they are investing too much.. or investing beyond their own means and capabilities, because any amount of investing into BTC on a regular basis seems to have good chances of paying off so long as the person keeps investing and has a timeline that is 4-10 years or longer into the future, and of course, there are no guarantees even though bitcoin remains amongst the best (if not the best) of asymmetric bets to the upside and likely its investment thesis is stronger today than it was in early 2016..

in 2016 the closing price of btc was $963. Well if someone invests $10 at that time they get 0.01041 btc for every purchase they make. Now if they regularly buy weekly let's say the overall price is $963 then he will get 0.4999 btc in one year of purchase.



source: https://www.statmuse.com/money/ask/bitcoin+price+2016

well quite different from those investing $10 per week at the current bitcoin price of $28k. Then there is quite a big difference between those who invest from 2016 and 2023. but that's not to drop their confidence in buying bitcoin because no matter how small you get, over time it will become big if you make purchases regularly.

I agree with your point, indeed we should be able to adjust it to our income. Don't let it be that because we are focused on buying bitcoins we will ignore the basic needs that we must fulfill every month, even every day. Do not let because we want to have a large number of bitcoins in our portfolio we forget something that must be met.
As many have said before, we can continue to increase the size of our portfolio by installments or what we are more familiar with with the DCA strategy.
I understand that our desire to hold large amounts is indeed very large, but that does not mean that we can completely indulge our selfishness.
Bitcoin has shown how it became big, so I not only believe but I really believe that something I do is very right.

We have to be able to manage from that point of view and of course our income adjustments must be balanced with our needs, don't ever put all of it in bitcoin it will suffer while people who can manage finances and they build portfolios start small but if it's long term it's good also at least there is still hope as long as those invested in bitcoin even though it's small.

But it also depends on how much our income is every month, manage it as much as possible so that it doesn't become pressured and those who invest in bitcoin must be prepared to lose if at any time the bitcoin price drops, but I believe that when the bitcoin price drops it will return to its highest price, so pretty confident bitcoin will be better than any other coin.

I think some may still find it very difficult to invest a lot knowing it is not an easy task even though the returns are quite high, but in a DCA way it is the best method for the long term and planning is at least 5-10 years as said above.

You seem to have a lot of mixed up ideas Rabata.

I am not really disagreeing with your various points, but you still seem to be lacking focus in terms of attempting to frame your ideas in regards to the topic of this thread, which is bitcoin (not shitcoins, which you mentioned several times), and your ideas that seem to gravitate towards gambling and trading and quoting some goofballs such as Elon Musk who seems to have more of a gambling rather than an investor mentality, even though he has gotten rich off of his various Go BIG or GO HOME approaches to life.. but who fucking cares about Elon Musk, people should not be trying to emulate that dweeb or to follow him or his trades, he surely does not seem to be giving practical advice that could apply to broader segments of the population, even though his gambling mentality, gambling approach and his seemingly gambling-laden advice might work for some people.

The ideas of this thread is not really about gambling and fucking around with trading and taking unnecessary risks, but instead trying to come up with and to follow a longer term prudent and reasonable strategy that largely attempts to emphasize the accumulation of BTC and to mostly hold BTC while building up the stack (stash) of bitcoin  with the hope that through a longer term passage of time, that having had mostly continued to invest and accumulate bitcoin will end up paying off way more than more erratic strategies.

Of course, even within the parameters of the topic of this thread, we don't necessarily completely agree with how to go about accumulating BTC .. except we are large in agreement that we are talking about accumulation of BTC strategies that involve various forms of ongoingly buying BTC.. and not calculating various forms to trade or to sell BTC.. and surely Elon Musk was not a very good example of what we are talking about in this thread.. Do you remember that dweeb.. he bought and then he sold several times, and sure maybe some of that worked out for him in the short term, but still his situation is way too complicated and maybe he is even pumping bullshit and causing confusion regarding what longer term strategies might be that mostly involve attempting to build a BTC position through buying.

Sure, you seem to admit that there is some time element that could be advantageous in terms of investing into bitcoin, too, so another aspect that relates to your "go big" proclamation is that even reasonably prudent and modestly aggressive investment strategies could well end up paying off quite handsomely for bitcoin, because even though maybe these days you might be better off to put $100 per week into bitcoin in order to get similar results as the person who had put $10 per week into bitcoin starting in 2016. 

So the guy who had stared investing $10 per week in 2016 would have invested around $3,660 and would have accumulated close to 1.2BTC.  Does not seem to be shabby results, even for a relatively modest level of investment over the past 7 years.

Don't get  me wrong.  I am not even going to concede that the guy who invest $100 per week will be able to catch up to the guy who had started to invest $10 per week in 2016, but still even though the amount that needs to be invested might have had gone up in the last 7 years, it still does not suggest that bitcoin is not a good ongoing investment and that bitcoin is quite likely having a stronger investment thesis now as compared to what its investment thesis was in 2016.

Actually, big returns can be expected form big investment. But those who expect from the lower investment that would be foolish in some sense. However, in case of long-term Bitcoin hoarders may differ. They can expect something big. Because we have an approximate idea of how big it can be in the long run. A long time ago I heard a word  by Elon Musk that if your investment is not big then your income will not grow. This is absolutely true. Because even a few days back people were unaware they invested in various scam projects and made big money through big pumping events. Many have lost large amounts as well. Nowadays people are now very aware of that situation. That kind of opportunity no longer exists. Now you have to choose between bitcoin or top alts coins for reliable investment. After a long period of investment if you don't make more money as expected then the investment seem to be worthless.

Yes, balance must be considered. You also have to adjust your income and investment budget and you can't invest 100% your budged in bitcoin if you still need that budget to meet your daily needs. Ultimately building a portfolio has to be very well balanced financially because when you get more budget for investments then you are bound to get into trouble in other areas due to your inability to make ends meet.

However, if you want your investment to be able to provide large returns, then you must have careful planning to build a portfolio with large enough budget too. It's hard to expect huge returns on such small budget, it's ridiculous.

My posts speak for themselves, and if you believe that they do not disprove anything or provide any sufficient explanation, then you are free to have your opinions regarding what you believe that my posts accomplish, or don't accomplish.


Yes.. we disagree on that point. You can keep believing it all that you want, and likely when you say it, then I am going to keep saying that it is wrong.

In essence the mere fact that you have a more limited budget than someone else does not necessarily cause a buying on dips to become better than DCA.

Let's say that someone can ONLY save $1 per week, then yeah, maybe it does not make sense to buy bitcoin with that until it gets up to $100 because of various kinds of fees or whatever, so maybe such person has to wait in order to be able to purchase BTC.. the same could be true with $10 per week, it might not make sense to buy $10 per week if there are not ways to buy such small amounts in whatever geographical location is the person, so in those kinds of circumstances, there may be needs to save up.

Surely, I am a proponent of weekly DCA... rather than spreading out DCA into larger increments, yet in the end each person is going to need to assess his/her situation in order to figure out the level of practicality, and so in the end maybe we are getting back to your point that you believe that DCA does not work for poor people, and I am saying that is baloney even though there could be some circumstances in which there needs to be some strategies for relatively small amounts - especially if there are not ways to merely just invest into BTC on a weekly basis.. and I had already mentioned the case that if the total budget is $10, then maybe a newbie entrant into bitcoin accumulation might choose to ONLY allocate $5 per week to DCA and the other $5 would be allocated to buying on dips, so there can be ways of dealing with those lower numbers and figuring it out, but surely if the person is having difficulties establishing accounts or connections that allow for such small amounts of buys (or maybe the fees are too high), then they might need to do more research to find other means or perhaps the either front load the deposit of money into an account or in the less preferable case scenario they might end up doing what you say, which is to build up their amount that they have before they would deposit it into an account... but still i doubt that you are describing a base case or a usual case rather than just trying to suggest DCA is not good for poor people, which is wrong thinking.. and has historically already been wrong with people, maybe even like yourself who might have had been waiting around when first finding out about BTC rather than getting started.  and surely in May 2016 (when you got involved in BTC), you would have been way better off to get started right away rather than waiting around, and another thing even if it would have been advantageous for you to lump sum into BTC at that time, that is not realistic either for someone to already know that they want to lump sum into bitcoin or that they would have had confidence right when they come to BTC, even though it would have had worked out well, but we cannot look back and say "I should have blah blah blah" but instead it is better to deal with what the circumstances right in front of a person are at the moment when finding out about BTC and considering getting into BTC, and the overwhelming majority of times, the best starting approach will be some variation of DCA and getting the fuck started right away rather than waiting around.


If you take a position that I consider to be ridiculous, then maybe I will choose to attempt to ridicule that position.   I don't see a problem with that... We are talking about substance, not people.


You seem to be misreading, or maybe taking matters too personally.  You agree or you don't agree with the various approach that I am talking about, and from my perspective I talk about best practices, including that I believe that DCA is better than buying on dips and lump sum investing, but those two can be incorporated into any approach (and probably should be as a person becomes more familiar with the BTC markets and their position), and another thing that I advocate is personally tailoring any approach to the individual circumstances, so we can have both best practices and aspirational goals, while at the same time attempting to work up to the aspirational goals... so still DCA is the best to get started and then to study BTC (an your own personal circumstances) as you go, while at the same time tailoring the approach along the way.. because in the end, each person is responsible for their own circumstances, rather than necessarily following something that someone said on the internet, and if you believe that DCA is not good at any particular time and you keep telling people (in your real world circumstances) to wait rather than getting started, then that's your choice.  There are almost no circumstances that I tell people to wait, because it can take a while to get started, and surely it might be the case that getting started is just setting up accounts and figuring out some contacts, and even if the newbie to bitcoin person might have a budget of $100 per week, they might start out by just buying $10 while they are figuring things out - especially since the very beginning may well involve quite a bit of time spent to learn and even some scariness over some of the complications of setting up accounts, finding people to sell BTC to them and even figuring out how to store their BTC. 

It is no walk in the park to get involved in BTC, especially in recent times with some of the seemingly industry-wide hostilities and also a lot of the various crashes and scams that we have been seeing in recent times, including that there seems to be a quite a bit of blaming of bitcoin for these kinds of matters or even purposeful confusion and obfuscating of what is going on in order that bitcoin is blamed for bank failures, scams and other kinds of ways that people have been getting reckt in recent times.


Oh gawd.   

Like watering a plant we must give it just enough and not too much or it will sink or end up with a wilted portfolio. I think it's all about balance but you may also be tempted to take risks or withdraw some of your investment at any time.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying ginsan.. especially that each of us needs to attempt to find a budget that will work for us, and that is sufficiently aggressive, while at the same time NOT being overly aggressive as to cause us to make bad choices.

You can imagine that someone who might have an income of $100 per week, and they are able to buy $15 per week in bitcoin, so that is 15% of their income, so in about 6.66 years, they will have saved up the equivalent of their yearly income.   It can be very tempting for a lot of folks to withdraw some of their investment or to make some risky moves because they might feel relatively rich, as compared with people in their circles, because most people are not able to save money. and to build an investment portfolio.. now if your investment ends up going up in value, then it may well take less time to get to 1 years salary saved up/invested, and of course there are no guarantees, but many of us likely can appreciate how some aspects of will power and focus and even abilities to make moderately reasonable and prudent decisions when we might be tempted to remove value within our investment portfolio before it has been allowed to compound upon itself.. . and so in some sense there are needs to regularly reinforce your plans and the reasons why you are following the plans that you are following, including sometimes tweaking your plan in order to make up for various weaknesses that you might have, mistakes that you might make along the way.. and to be careful NOT to overdo the tweaks but to make sure that you are able to accept whatever tweaks that you make or whatever choices that you might make to stay on the same path.. and I am also referring to changes that might happen in your life including your income could change and you also could be tempted to invest in other things and/or to consume, and some of the choices could be reasonably made, and other times there could be mistakes.

in implementing a buying strategy i adjust the passive income to a ability level that i can be sure will not be touched over a long period of time in making an investment, there is no compulsion to increase the buying percentage i mean if i regularly invest $15 in bitcoin i keep doing it with  capital of $15 every week because it will not burden me in financial problems. it's a fairly small number, but if I succeed in 10 years it will be quite a fantastic savings that I have made.

I think if $15 per week is invested in bitcoin then we are not worried about every correction that occurs even when the price goes up 15% we don't see the profit coming to us because the capital we invest is quite small but the understanding here we will continue to buy in the long term  long until in the end we will have 1 btc.

I am not yet a professional in Bitcoin, but I just happen to always stay positive, no matter if the price is falling. If I had known quite a few good Bitcoiners in my area, maybe it would have been a real encouragement to me. I know how I felt after Luna crashed and also after FTX collapsed; I then began to wonder what if it happened one day that Bitcoin too collapsed, but I just got one hope going, which I don't know if it's good or not, but the thing is that I think it's good to invest in Bitcoin and also in other landed assets and commodities. Like you mentioned, investing $100 or $10 per week is really good.

Thanks for this tips, sir. It's just correct; we can buy and hold, which can give more profit during a bull market or halving period, but if one decides to hold fiat, inflation will just reduce the value of the money so that it can only buy a few things.


Why I don't just regret arriving late to bitcoin investment is because I know if I keep DCA and Hold up for long enough, I will still make the profit I am supposed to by then. There are people who have lots of Bitcoiners in their area, and these opportune people are not taking Bitcoin seriously, not knowing that people like myself had even wished for that opportunity earlier but did not see any, and that's what made me lag behind.