Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 515. (Read 122897 times)

In deed, Dollar cost averaging (DCA) strategy can help to mitigate impact of market volatility on your investment in Bitcoin or any other asset. By investing a fixed amount of money regardless of market is up or down, you can potentially reduce your average cost per coin or share over time and can benefit from the long-term growth potential of your assets.

Sorry sir, I seem to have focused too much on the points that lead the conversation to the brink of this thread or don't have a clear correlation and not what we usually talk about here.

Now here is the importance of DCA, where we can buy when it bleeds and cast nets and look for dip in the bitcoin decline, we see the price when the news is circulating and it spreads so that there is a decline and if you look at the decline at that time it reaches the price of $ 19.5k and finally comes back starting to bounce into the $20k area.

Monthly DCA and DCA when it drops like that I feel reduces the feeling of disappointment from a drop due to such an accident.
In essence, it is buying and holding bitcoin that you have bought, even if you want to sell it when there is a lot of decline and lots of FUD circulating, but we must not forget history that bitcoin can never be killed by sentences like that.

While it is true that younger people are more inclined to invest in Bitcoin and have high expectations for potential profits, it is also noteworthy that older investors have been actively involved in the crypto currency market for years. Regardless of age, it is crucial for investors to adopt long-term outlook & develop a well-thought-out investment strategy. By implementing long term HODL strategy, investors can endure market fluctuation and potentially reap the long-term growth potential of Bitcoin.

The truth of the matter is that we don't really know which way the BTC price is going to go in the short term.  I recall that when I first got into bitcoin in late 2013, my main strategy for the next year and a half was to buy bitcoin and if I spent any bitcoin, then I would replace it within days of selling it.. so I was quite a bit biased in regards to BTC accumulation and I was worried about not having enough.

So in spite of my bias towards BTC accumulation, by mid-2015, I had realized and recognized that I had over-accumulated my earlier targets, and therefore, I spent quite a bit of time to model out ways in which I would be able to sell some BTC as the BTC price goes up (presuming that the BTC would go up at sometime in the future), so that I could figure out a comfortable way to balance out the "overaccumulation" that I had assessed myself to have had done.

So, even though I had put systems in place to sell small amounts of BTC on the way up and to buy on the way down, when the BTC price shot from around $300 to $500 in a matter of only a few weeks, I ended up panicking and I abandoned my plan to sell on the way up, and I ended up using quite a bit of my left over cash to buy near the early November 2015 top of $500.. which largely meant that I had done the opposite of what I had planned and I had also fucked up my plan because I did not have much of any budget to buy when the BTC price corrected back down to $300-ish and took quite a wile to get back up to $400 and largely got caught in the lower $400s for the next 6 months (until the end of May 2016).... so yeah, I fucked up my situation because I got emotional, and I am pretty sure that I did not make that same mistake again.. because I learned from it.. and it is not easy to learn from these kinds of mistakes or even to have conviction that you have learned something that you are going to be able to apply in the future because every time in the future there remains quite a bit of uncertainties regarding what the BTC price is going to do in the short to medium term, and largely if you create a plan that is well thought through in advance, it tends to be best to mostly stick with that plan because you shiould have already largely accounted for extreme possibilities in your plan so that even if the BTC price ends up going beyond the extremes that you had thought to be possible, the most that you likely should be doing is tweaking your plan rather than panicking and throwing out the plan.. and then making up some inadequate, spontaneous and likely emotionally driven plan..


For sure it is not easy to figure out how much to buy regularly, how much to buy on dips and how much to hold in reserves.. So there can be a bit of a moving target, including sometimes we run out of money when we are buying on the way down, and we are forced to HODL until maybe the next time that we get enough cash to buy, which could be two weeks, but sometimes we might not have enough cash to buy more for 1-2 months... so yeah, it does seem to help to be in profits in your BTC portfolio, even though that does not completely resolve the dilemma, especially if you feel that it is taking forever and you are having difficulties in seeing progress.. which could take 3-6 years or even longer before you start to feel that you are making some measurable progress, and sometimes there are even bitcoiners who have been involved in bitcoin for more than 6 years, but they still feel like they are making mistakes and not making progress.. but harder to make those kinds of assertions if you are not fucking around with trading and you are mostly just buying on a regular basis to the extent of your own abilities and not trying to compete with anyone except for trying to be a kind of prudent, reasonable and perhaps assertive/aggressive version of yourself.. in terms of focusing on BTC accumulation while at the same time realizing that there are not any guarantees that you are going to not end up losing everything.. .. so there are ways to attempt to engage in risk management too. and try to preserve your principle without gambling and/or without taking too many risks.


It is likely a bit more difficult for someone to add new classes of investments (such as an asset like bitcoin) to their investment portfolio or to make any kinds of large changes to their perceptions of investment practices that might have already worked sufficiently well for them... It is not impossible, but surely it can be quite scary for someone who is older to either add something new or even to go through enough hours of research to figure out the value of bitcoin's investment thesis.

There might be some classes of older investors who are more receptive to the idea of adding something like bitcoin to their investment portfolio..

Another thing that sometimes bothers me when I hear really young investors throwing out their anti-government, and burn it all down ideas is that sure there may well be some receptivity that younger investors have to bitcoin or any other investment, because they might be starting with hardly anything.. so they may well be more than willing to get into bitcoin because they believe it is a new system and the old system has to be burnt down.. which really seems to be a kind of naiveté in my thinking .. even though surely, there is truth to differing ways that anyone might think when they have already established a lot of assets (including investments) compared when they are new and they might not have any other assets.. but that lack of assets does not all of a sudden make the no (or low) asset person correct merely because they thereafter blindly invest into bitcoin without considering the various potential of other assets..

And don't get me wrong, I am not even suggesting that there is any need to diversify into other assets when someone is a new investor, I don't see anything wrong with going straight to bitcoin and building up their investment portfolio with just bitcoin and dollars and perhaps when the investment portfolio reaches a certain size, then that same investor might need to consider the extent to which diversification might be a good thing rather than not having any other assets... so yeah an older investor might have property, equities, bonds, cash and other forms of investments that have been largely building and they perceive to have had been adequately working for them.. because they appear to be ongoingly going up in value (dollar value - but they might have little to no clue about the extent to which the dollar has been debased and continues to be debased... so yeah, it can be difficult to see and understand bitcoin's value proposition and young people are not necessarily smarter in those regards, but they might be willing to take chances.. including appreciating number go up technology.. which really is an incomplete believe, even if that framework might be enough to end up being correct)...

You're right, it's their right to determine their position to sell their BTC when conditions are rising. This is even a short-term investment, but they do it because they want to get profits faster than usual, but keep in mind it's not as easy as we imagine, buying low and then selling high is actually difficult for short-term BTC so here I've focused on the long term with 5-10 years, but again every investor's thinking is different but I'm more focused bitcoin is a long time to stockpile.

But please assume what percentage you want to get from the increase in bitcoin and then sell even I envy this is no exception selling lots of bitcoins but if you feel it's still a piece of bitcoin then it's better in the long term because, for the long term, it's not ideal to get better profits.

But I agree with you, you don't need to force someone to run it alone.

Actually I don't have data on how many 60-70 year olds are still active in investing in bitcoin with DCA or hoarding in any way to project it but I predict that those who do this are among young people maybe at the age of 20-30 years who are still young enough with all the big dreams of bitcoin as long as they invest it, of course their hope is to buy something that has been coveted so far by buying an expensive house or car in the process of saving in bitcoin but if they set a 10 year HODL then they can get greater profit from the results of such patience.

My suggestion/advice in how to make it easier to make it HARD for yourself from compulsive-selling your Bitcoin because of fear and panic is, HODL YOU BITCOINS IN COLD STORAGE, not hardware wallet, ACTUAL COLD STORAGE using an offline computer. That has saved me many times from "the temptation" because of the extra process of signing, copy and pasting, plugging a USB from the online computer, to the offline computer, back to the online computer.

 

As long as bitcoins have a demand and supply, that's how long they will be valuable.
No matter how bad the market conditions are affected by FUD, it is only part of the investment risk and is an important point for every investor to consider. The market can move both ways, it affects the value of investment assets but that is the reason why both losses and profits are generated from the investment.

You can be optimistic about the future, but please only do so in an amount that you can really afford to lose. I get this point from various posts, many people always say it and of course it is important for every investor and myself to consider.

At different times various issues have hit the Bitcoin market hard and bloodied the Bitcoin market. Throughout the year 2022, there were various issues, Terra Luna crashed, FTX crashed, now Silvergate phenomena which put the Bitcoin market in turmoil. No matter how tough the situation, experienced investors and traders never deviate from their goals. In this case, the inexperienced investors and traders will sell their invested bitcoins even if they come to this bloody market thinking that the market condition is bad. An important point is that Bitcoin has been declared dead 471 times at various times i.e. till today, but 471 times it has been declared dead but later it has been revived 471 times. That is, no matter how bad the market condition is, later the market will go to a good position. So, don't break down in bad situations, be patient and hold your invested bitcoins, and if the situation is good, you will be able to make your decision by understanding the profit.

Psychological pressure seems unavoidable given that market volatility sometimes does not show any increase after some time. I've been gaining -15% in the last 30 days, my portfolio value is dump and that's kind of annoying and puts a lot of psychological pressure on me. But sure - take a deep breath and hold with it and accumulate as much as I can even if it's not more than $100 a month. This means I can save $25 per week, max $30 and would really like to do more if inflation didn't take a toll on my financial situation.

There is a good chance of a dip this time as FUD really haunts the market. Obviously allows me to get a lower price for the same goal in the long term. This thread and the discussions that it has led me to feel a sense of belief that bitcoin has unquestionable potential, in the long term of course.

I was really unhappy when bitcoin suddenly increased by more than 50% in the first 2 months of the year, causing me to change my plans and accept that bitcoin will no longer be cheap to accumulate. But finally, bitcoin corrected again, I don't know if anyone panicked when buying bitcoin at 24k, but I'm happy when bitcoin drops below 20k. Given the situation, I predict this won't be the last chance this year, but we should take every opportunity. Buying bitcoins under $20k is something that will never be seen in the future, so we need to make full use of it.

Such a mindset is really not a big deal, but they are just impatient and may not be able to handle the consequences of correction. In an area of ​​decline like this one can easily get swayed by FUD, whatever it is but then you and others will benefit. I mean if you actually buy on the dips and hold on.

Remember that weak hands are very likely to sell and take losses, while strong hands will hold and get another incentive to buy and accumulate during a correction. It doesn't matter how much you can afford to buy, but collect as much as you can afford to lose. After all, you also still have to adjust your budget as well.

When I look at my dca tracker the last time I was able to get my current mar avg price per coin was way back in July ‘22. We were in that will it go below 20k mood then, and took a turn end of Aug. I think when you start to understand what are the succinct characteristics of a dip is you can plan accordingly for future ones.

I have been holding for the last 6 months, and I will say that I'm not deter with this dump again, I will continue to do what I have been doing in the next 6 months or so.

Now as for the price, it's going down hard to $20,300, now it doesn't look good because on the first 2 months, the price really seems to take off. Unfortunately, it's very different time day. For those doing DCA, this is another opportunity again. For those who are buying one time and looking to enter, this is also a golden opportunity. So do not be negative when we see the price declining, but instead make the best out of it by stacking sats.

Some people might be Panic selling right now due to fear of uncertainty, While this is really the right time to start building up your portfolio and I'm buying more of Bitcoin. However,  if you had missed the first pump on January, now seem to be another nice time to get in. I have actually started adding up a little more of Bitcoin Into my portfolio at 20.7k and will continue to DCA down the line ,HODL and believing that history will reward us in the coming future.

Yes, as I always say for those who are still unsure about bitcoin holders. Having bitcoins must have strong faith because with this we will not really care about what is happening in the market, and will also always take advantage of the downturn to continue to accumulate it and hold it in the long term.
and I hope that everyone should realize that bitcoin is the best long term investment in this world which will provide very satisfying profit results if done in the long term.
because I'm not a trader so that's their business, and bitcoin is good and profitable for both holders and traders and it all depends on mastery and compatibility, and both of them still have to have strong faith to do it, in order to make good profits. But what is better and best at making profits is the long term.

Well that seems to be part of the purpose of this thread, in order to discuss various ways in which to accumulate BTC in such a way that any of us might be able to put our own individually tailored systems into place so that we don't feel as emotional about or BTC sales and/or our BTC buys so long as we might consider that overall we are attempting to treat bitcoin as a long term investment, so in that regard, we might feel better to sell a bit of our bitcoin on the way up.. but might not feel compelled that we have to sell large portions or even any of it on the way up if we might establish other systems for ourselves to deal with seemingly inevitable ongoing BTC volatility.. ONE of the most inevitable things in bitcoin seems to be that it is going to be volatile - so if we already can recognize and appreciate the likely inevitability of BTC's volatility, then we are likely in a better place to deal with such ongoing inevitable volatility by putting systems into place, and surely some of the emphases of those systems that each of us puts into place is going to vary from one another, but if we are able to bat around the varying ideas (including in places like this thread), then we are likely going to put ourselves into better financial/psychological circumstances to be able to deal with such.


I do think that you can talk about systems to put in place in order to better trade - but really that is not the topic of this thread.

We are largely attempting to talk about dealing with one side of the ledger in this thread to help to figure out ways to employ various buying strategies and even holding strategies whether or not we might have run out of money to buy.. ... so surely buying on the dip or DCA or even maybe some lump sum buys from time to time, but then the default is hold.. not sell.. so we are not really talking about the trade offs in regards to trying to figure out how to sell and to potentially profit from that.. so those kinds of strategies seems to take us outside of the topic of this thread.. even though it can be a fair topic, but seems to need to be explored in other places (threads in the forum). and not as one of the methods being discussed here in regards to the planning and employing of the various strategies of buying and holding.

There may be some people in the market that when he buys bitcoins he doesn't know when to sell them but I think those are just beginners in investing in bitcoins. I think that a healthy and experienced investor always determines when to buy and when to sell, management of things like this is important for smooth investing both in the long and short term. If someone who is experienced they are definitely more or less able to read price movements, as we know in bitcoin there are cycles, market trends, buy/sell opportunities, and price characteristics every month during the course of one year (excluding news sentiment) then when you can read this, you will definitely prepare several options for making decisions and I think that is something that every investor should have, what I mean is that there must be a target in terms of profit goals for any period of time.

I know you're not challenging anyone who wants to sell their bitcoin less than 4 years after they invested. Of course it is their full right and they are responsible for the profits and losses. Most new investors can be unprincipled on longer time frames eg 4-10 years but that is certainly not our problem as you said. But if they are able to maintain it, then of course it will be much more profitable as many holders have experienced so far.

I tend to agree to the principle of holding in the long term, it's much more reassuring than me having to hold my assets in any other form. Therefore, it is basically believed that bitcoin is still very possible to get a higher price and so I would never say someone is guilty just for not profiting on the few percent increase from what bitcoin will do.

Despite all that, everyone will never be forced to hold bitcoin any longer as long as they can no longer afford to hold because of a high selling impulse in their minds. But of course selling some of those bitcoins is the wisest option instead of selling all of them. Again, it all really depends on the individual, so this is something that may not be the same as one another.

There is no need to have a good idea if someone already believes and believes in Bitcoin, so he can immediately apply Buy the DIP, and HODL to Bitcoin and never think about when to sell it even though when he sells it later it will also determine what the price will be at that time. Sometimes the buyers in the market are not all traders, because there are also those who just buy and then hold it for a time limit that they did not specify at that time. Although the goal of investing in Bitcoin in the long term is to make a profit.

There does not really seem to be anything wrong with your ideas Wind-FURY.. but you still are not really saying much of anything in terms of trying to describe yourself in terms of vague and amorphous "common-man" terms.

Sure, it is quite likely that you are part of everybody who is common, but in some senses you are not common in the sense that you have been able to identify bitcoin as a good investment, and you have been investing into bitcoin for nearly 7 years - even if you made a whole lot of mistakes in the beginning, you are still early into bitcoin  and even small amounts of investing into bitcoin are likely going to pay off in the long run - when you have recognized some of the basic ideas that involve ongoingly investing in bitcoin and largely staying away from shitcoins and/or trading.

There are likely going to be people who currently have way better financial means that you and other people who had way better means than you 7 years ago, and you are quite likely going to be able to get ahead of those folks relatively speaking, especially if the vast majority of them continue to fail/refuse to either recognize bitcoin as a good investment and/or failed/refused to take actions in order to build their BTC stashes.. .. so in that regard, there are even folks who could have bought a whole bitcoin at some point between mid-2016-ish and late 2020-ish, and may well would not have suffered very much in order to buy that whole bitcoin with quite easily less than $4k in value.. but now. it has become quite difficult to do the same, and even buying a whole bitcoin under $15k might not be possible ever again.   So it will take more capital to get to whole bitcoiner status.  Look at the DCA of $10 per bitcoin week for the past 7 years gets a person to more than 1.26 bitcoin and ONLY having had invested $3,660 in dollar value.

So yeah of course, any of us could make mistakes, and sure any of us might not have been able to afford to buy $10 of bitcoin per week, yet many of us likely realize that you do not even need to reach 1 BTC status in order to b e able to potentially prosper stupendously by getting involved in bitcoin, and perhaps striving to merely accumulate 0.1BTC is enough to at least get started and to continue to make your BTC accumulation goals bigger and BIgger and BIGGER.. in order to increase some of the odds that maybe you will end up accumulating way more bitcoin in these times than you would be able to be able to accumulate in the future...

And, the same is true for me.  I was able to accumulate more BTC than I would currently be able to accumulate, and I made mistakes along the way too... and almost everyone, even someone who has been in bitcoin for more than 9 years can still find ways in which s/he might consider that s/he could have had been more assertive/aggressive in his/her BTC accumulation and it may well not have cost very much to be a bit more assertive/aggressive in that BTC accumulation.. and no need to resort to gambling or leverage or any of those kinds of more risky practices in order employ prudent and practical strategies in terms of ongiongly and regularly accumulating BTC.


Yeah.. you can fuck around all that you like.. including selling BTC when you are in profits.  But part of the focus of this thread is to frame bitcoin as a longer term investment, which is that 5-10 year time frame, so yeah, you can see profits at some sooner timeframe, and you can take profits, and so fucking what?  You made some dollars, and you might end up getting screwed if you sell too much too soon.

There is a bit of a value proposition that is being presented in terms of bitcoin potentially serving as a kind of asset that you are not fucking around with.. you are accumulating it and building it for the long term.

And, sure on a personal level you can do whatever you like, including ignoring bitcoin's value proposition, valuing your wealth in terms of dollars and try to time the ups and downs of bitcoin and end up selling too much too soon.

Don't get me wrong.. I am not even against some folks to consider investing into bitcoin in terms of shorter time horizons, even though probably it used to be the case that I would tell people that it might NOT be a great idea to invest in bitcoin if they did not have at least have a 4 year time horizon.    These days, I still largely stick with the 4 year time horizon as the minimum, but I also suggest that maybe if your time horizon is less than 4 years, then you would just take a smaller position size.

Part of the truth of the matter when someone might either start to get more elderly in their 60s, 70s or 80s, they become somewhat uncertain about how long their time horizon is, as compared with someone who might be in his/her 20s, 30s, or 40s who might be saving up for a house or some large purchase, so the time horizon has to do with considerations of when they are wanting to be able to make those larger purchases, rather than end of life and/or retirement considerations.

Surely each person has complete discretion regarding how to manage his/her investments, yet many times in bitcoin we might be talking with (or to) folks who are either new to bitcoin or they are still establishing a position as a current no coiner or a low coiner, and also if bitcoin is considered as a likely longer term investment, then surely the considerations regarding building a potentially sizable BTC position does not necessarily deal with whether or not they might perceived that they are able to take fiat profits or potentially being able to trade some BTC for fiat in order to buy back lower at another date.. which surely many of the ideas behind this thread are suggesting those kinds of approaches to BTC are not what we are talking about here.. even though surely anyone is free to employ those kinds of strategies.


Yeah but still. I am not really sure if you are saying anything.  You can choose to invest into anything, time, energy, psychology and value.  Some things have greater odds of appreciating in value than other things, so many of us are going to attempt to invest into things that we expect to either gain in value relative to other things, or maybe we might invest into some things that we expect to not lose value as fast, relative to other things.

We are not going to know in advance which things are going to hold their value or gain in value, so we have to make educated guesses and attempt to do our best, and sometimes we will divide our value between a few different kinds of assets and even choose how much we are apportioning our allocations of value in order to attempt to either maximize or future value including weighing between how much we might value consumption today versus consumption in the future.  It may well not be a good idea to save for the future and then never be able to consume what we had saved.. so none of these are easy decisions, so frequently we are attempting to balance value to our present self as compared to what kind of value our future self might get from deferred gratification.. and the obvious choice will not always be to save and invest because sometimes we will need to (or prefer to ) consume while we can and maybe while we are still young (maybe in our 20s or 30s) enough to enjoy certain things that might not give us much if any pleasure later down the road (when we are in our 50s, 60s or 70s).