Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 91. (Read 129885 times)

I never like to think positively about short term bitcoin trading because it's pretty clear to me that the real profits are hidden in the long term accumulation of bitcoins. I may have spent some time to be able to understand what you mean.It is certainly logical that Bitcoin can be withdrawn if the spot price is above 25% if an investor has a decent sized holding. As per your advice I think it must be a sustained withdrawal trend as well as regular bitcoin accumulation so a logical suggestion to fill that void is to continue buying the DCA method uninterrupted.

Of course! An investor should build a rational holding in his long term Bitcoin journey where he will simultaneously accumulate Bitcoins in the DCA strategy and take advantage of a maximum 25% withdrawal from excess savings if the spot price is higher than the average purchase price.

most of the idea that tend to suggest that Bitcoin was created as a replacement to the fiat only shows that the individual has a wrong knowledge about Bitcoin and doesn't even understand the whole essence of Bitcoin creation. The best way to look at Bitcoin which an average person that's not still conversant with it purpose will easily understand is that Bitcoin is an international decentralized digital currency while fiat is a per nation centralized currency. the creation of the latter doesn't mean that the former has lost it value. It only suggest that with Bitcoin, you've been given full control over your money and that you've gotten the ability to make transaction accross different national boundaries at whatever time you want to with zero restriction of any sort.
the fact that he sees this idea he suggested as being smart is what even baffles me. Who makes an investment because he wants to use his investment as collateral for obtaining loan? If buying Bitcoin is all about such purpose, then most persons wouldn't consider investing in Bitcoin because it will totally look worthless. I don't even know why he's trying to relate the 21 Bitcoin in circulation to the reason one will go on to gamble with his investment by using it as a collateral for loans.

Owning Bitcoin is a precious previledge I wouldn't give away for any reason. It's reckless, careless and unwise to think that your accumulated Bitcoin has gotten less valuable to the extent of trading it in exchange for fiat which is far less reliable compared to Bitcoin.

It's very unfortunate that I have to read this.
Perhaps you are very far from reality, I don't know where you got your bitcoin orientation from but perhaps you're literally among the few marginalizing a fight against fiat which is never the intention of Satoshi nor bitcoiners because realistically we need fiat and bitcoin is not in anyway against fiat.

The intention was to create an alternative currency that works viz vice with fiat, bitcoin is never against the use of fiat but its a freedom currency which I prefer to call a paradigm, it's all about having full control over your finances which is the direct opposite to government desire, the governments does not appreciate anything that has do so much with privacy, freedom and that's why bitcoin is usually getting attacked by governments even though we see less of such case this days.

Bitcoin is a paradigm that has shifted our thoughts from only holding fiats in our banks without maximum security and privacy in our lives and also facing inflation problem but with the existence of bitcoin we now have full control over our assets or finances having your money in a self custodial wallet which absolutely freedom even though governments don't want such freedom to exist.

Back to your statement, apparently fiat is probably not going to disappear any time soon not even in the next centenary, so want you to realize how unrealistic that statement is but I do agree that bitcoin is best choice a beginner or anyone can afford at this point because its cheap when approached properly using DCA or any other method that might be convenient with he or she because if compared to assets or investments like real estate one will still have to save alot of money in order to purchase a building while at these same period he or she might be able to have accumulate at least a little stash of bitcoin that might in the process of saving even yield more interest even though I don't encourage short term investment.

No, no, no! Anyone using his bitcoin investment as a collateral is no worth regarding as smart because it makes no sense using your bitcoin to take loan on fiat. This is why we are advised to while planning on investing for a long time we also have a reliable income source if possible a stream's of income in order to avoid finding yourself in a messy situation where you would have to make such unwise decision because it's like telling an investor to stake his bitcoin for an altcoin.

I am with you, let's discourage people using Bitcoin as a collateral and the same goes for people using something as collateral to buy Bitcoin. If you want to buy Bitcoin, use how much you have and focus on DCA. Bitcoin won't run far away from us, it's always there in exchanges unless they start to limit the in flows and out flows of BTCs being bought on them but that's more unlikely to happen at this point.

Exactly.

Investments aren't mostly for short term although if you're in a jackpot and your investment pumped a lot in a short period, that's for you to decide.

But in the case of Bitcoin, this is better for long term holds.

First let’s start with the question how can someone be in debt and still has bitcoin in his wallet, the possible answers to this is the fact the person actually invested into bitcoin without fulfilling some basic requirements which I personally think is a very wrong idea. My first cateria is the funds set aside to invest into bitcoin must be an amount the investors can make do away with for a very long term this clearly shows that borrowed funds isn’t even acceptable as an investor. Secondly the investors most also have extra funds set aside for emergency.  

All this isn’t a requirement but I personally viewed it the with this one Can easily be patient in holding. Imagine having lots of bitcoin and then still be in a heavy debt which is due. If I ever find investors like this my advice is for them to taken a hit and then liquidate some of their holdings to pay off the debt. The choice of even using it as collateral is not welcome with me because holding to it means you’re still at the verge of losing it all why not just pay off the debt and then hold the rest or start accumulating gradually again. Bitcoin is here to actually better the financial system of the world through decentralization and many more features lacking in fiat but many people treat it as though it shouldn’t be spent even when it is for a very important purpose which is a bad habit to me. Long term holding is what we all advice but when it is only bitcoin that can save you out from some difficulties then it is best you make use of it

Get back on topic, buy on dips and hold.
Do not bring or continue the conversation towards loans and lending because that is out of the idea in this topic.
Take a lot of time to understand properly how to invest properly, because you are betting money in this investment, so make one wise decision to succeed.

Practice investing in the early stages, strengthen the budget first for your living needs, set aside a few percent because investment is not for one week but one year, five years, ten years and can even last a lifetime. So little by little it will become a hill. Just buy routinely like most people have done.

Bitcoin is worth more than using it as collateral to get little loan because you lack how to go about with your bitcoin journey in order for you to be able go hodli for a very long time. You should have a means of income which will enable you to take care of your monthly needs and whatever problem that might arise when you are investing in bitcoin and this is where emergency funds is very necessary to all bitcoin investors.

This is why it is not good for one to DCA over aggressively to avoid such thing like getting broke and using your bitcoin to take loan. This is the biggest risk I have ever heard about for someone to risk his bitcoin that he has taken his time to invest and build. It is better that you take a non collateral loan from your place of work or from people you know than using your bitcoin because you are the only person that can keep your bitcoin safe in your self custody wallet.

I believe it's a wrong move allocating once Bitcoin as collateral for some loan amount, I consider it a weak thinking and should be avoided. This forum is one platform that is able by some members to give out loans, yet we've never or I personally haven't witnessed a situation where Bitcoin not just any asset is being given as per collateral even the person issuing the loaned amount never asks for Bitcoin as collateral. Now let's imagine given Bitcoin as a collateral which the sent amount will be equivalent to dollar value of the Bitcoin, that means If by any circumstances unable to meet up the loan return then the lender is left by no option than to take the collateral (Bitcoin), if the lender understands the value of Bitcoin and decides to hold, in few or more period he might be getting X2 of what was sent as collateral.

I really appreciate it, if they want to learn from my experience, However, an investor has many bitter or sweet experiences but most of them don't want to reveal them. But that doesn't matter, the important thing is that they want to fix it so as not to repeat it in the ongoing investment.
I also checked your post history, Even the post I quoted is one of the posts you made on this forum, besides that it only contains application posts.
I think you should be able to improve yourself, be it the investment you make or improve yourself to discuss your approach to Bitcoin.

Yes it is a mistake and an act of carelessness, but it is very important for us not to be reckless in opening any site. even better not to open it because of fear of there being a phishing link listed which will result in our laptop being infiltrated by Hackers.

Of course investors have freedom because they invest with their own money and they decide everything about the investment they make. In this thread we only discuss ideas that are better applied in long-term investment, of course there is no coercion because everything is just an idea which can be judged by yourself whether it is important or not to learn. In fact, I think learning about what we don't know yet is the best way to approach bitcoin investment. An interesting idea from senior investors who invested in bitcoin earlier will be a valuable experience if they are willing to explain the direction of their success in holding bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the most valuable asset and I agree with your idea that bitcoin is worth holding onto until we are old.

You are right sir, many countries used to attack Bitcoin with their bad assumptions. But so far those countries are quite behind compared to the development or journey of bitcoin which has been going on for 16 years until now. Bitcoin is superior to other assets and it has even been proven in the real world.

I don't call using your bitcoin investment as collateral when you are short of funds in a lending platform because it is wrong and you are gambling with your bitcoin investment and that is not smartness but a dumb thing to do.

I don't understand why any investor will acquire enough Bitcoin to the point of getting broke and use his bitcoin investment for collateral, it means that investor didn't plan his bitcoin investment journey properly and he doesn't have an emergency funds to take care of real emergency when it comes. This is the problem alot of newbies are facing, they forget that bitcoin investment is for long term and one needs to use only part of his discretionary income to invest in bitcoin for a long-term so that he can buy regularly and hodli for a long time time without selling part of his bitcoin when it is not of his own will.

It is better for a new investor to have his emergency funds and reserve funds for any emergency that will occur during his bitcoin journey because they are back up funds to our bitcoin investment if we want to be successful in the long run. If you use bitcoin as collateral for a loan, you are to pay for the interest and that will make you sell your bitcoin when you cannot pay up the loan. It is not to invest in bitcoin but to invest wisely with proper plan which will enable you grow, build  hodli your bitcoin stash to your target without selling or using it as collateral.

Don't keep your bitcoin with third party and if you use it as collateral anything can happen to your bitcoin anytime and you will run at big loss. What if the platform pull an exit scam.

Bitcoin has been proven to be the only asset that is resistant to inflation even though its price fluctuates, this makes Bitcoin validated as the best safe haven, as far as I have heard, smart investors will only make Bitcoin their main investment, and when they need money, they will use the Bitcoin they have as collateral in a lending platform, they are very smart because they realize that there are only 21 million Bitcoins and the amount cannot be increased or decreased.

You seem to be talking about trading rather than sustainable withdrawal.. So I was suggesting that once a large enough stash is established then 10% per year could be withdrawn in perpetuity as long as the BTC spot price is staying at least 25% above the 200-WMA and the 200-WMA is being used as the valuation of the BTC stash based on bottom prices rather than based on top prices.  Perhaps my discussion of this is too complicated for my to be stating it and members seem to be misinterpreting what I am saying.


I surely am suggesting to attempt to reach a state of over-accumulation before beginning a time-based sustainable withdraw approach.


That sounds correct, and it makes a difference if a person has other income sources too. So if he has other income sources, he would probably use those first and then perhaps use BTC withdrawals as a means to supplement his income.  And, if his ONLY income source is bitcoin, then he surely should be careful to make sure that his quantity of BTC is sufficient in order to begin to start to spend from his stash, especially in a systematic time-based way that involves reduce his BTC stash by amounts of up to 10% per year.


In spite of ongoing attacks on bitcoin, it continues to outperform other asset classes, and surely there can be worries about the attacks and for any of us to be able to continue to be able to cash out bitcoin or to otherwise be able to spend our bitcoin, so it can be confusing regarding how to invest into bitcoin and whether to hold the BTC directly and then how to continue to ensure the existence of onramps and offramps, even while surely it would be even greater if there are more and more ways to directly transact with other bitcoiners.

I don't consider any investor who wants to accumulate bitcoin only when there is a bitcoin dip because it is a process of accumulating bitcoin. But the only problem I have with investors who only want to accumulate bitcoin in a dip is that it will make them less active in accumulating bitcoin, which will make them wait for the dip they are not even sure will happen, and this will make them not to accumulate enough bitcoin because they will be less active in accumulating bitcoin. Instead of depending only on buying the bitcoin dip to accumulate bitcoin, it would be better for an investor to combine both the DCA strategy and buying the bitcoin dip so that the investor will be consistent in accumulating bitcoin with the DCA strategy while he or she waits patiently for the dip to occur. 

That might not actually be the truth technically, in the sense that some people might be ignorant about some certain things in life. Not that they don't want to learn new ways of doing things but they lack the opportunity to learn at that present time. That being, there are actually people who think like that out there, who once had such thoughts in the past, and went on to still become successful Bitcoin investors. It was later along the line that they began to realize that there actually better ways of doing things when it comes to Bitcoin investment.

Most of us are privileged to be in a forum like this that we have access to knowledge that's shaping our investment decisions and Bitcoin awareness. So I think sometimes we have to consider the possibilities of others who are not as privileged as we are. People who only make Bitcoin deposit to their portfolio when they see a reasonable dip  in the market  let's say 10 to 20% dip. Still they are holding bitcoin for long term. That they are doing it that way doesn't make it the right thing to do, but I'm just using this illustration to let you know that there's every possibility that people who think like that can actually invest in bitcoin and hold for long.


This statement is not true, and I quite disagree with you. The dip can never be a threat to holding bitcoin, because there is actually a strategy of bitcoin investment that's known as buying the dip. I don't see how the dip will be a treat of holding bitcoin. Someone who see the dip as a threat to holding bitcoin, don't actually have the mind to hodl Bitcoin for long term. The person is just looking for opportunities to be making little bucks from Bitcoin trading. Someone who is really interested in holding bitcoin will see every dip that comes along the way as an opportunity to keep adding more to his portfolio, in line with his constant DCA weekly or monthly.


This is basically the characteristics of most Bitcoin investors. People derives joy when they can actually achieve more at reduced price. But they won't be happy seeing that the market is down But they have also forgotten that the market is equally giving opportunity to others to come in. Especially to those who are of the opinion that bitcoin price is currently too high for them to come in.

 That's why long term investment is encouraged for all level of investors. I'm quite aware that long term investors actually see Bitcoin the way you described it here.

I think an investor should tend to withdraw depending on the accumulation of a decent stash. If an investor can accumulate $60k (estimated) worth of bitcoins in a year, it might be decent for him and have a 10% withdrawal opportunity during bullish times, so he should probably withdraw $6K worth of bitcoins. But I think if he has the stamina to do it for a longer period of time from regular DCA deposits, he should continue to deposit for a cycle or two or more without withdrawal. Yes every year if he needs extra money for foreign trips or other needs he can decide to withdraw a % as per his convenience. Also, the more bitcoin holdings an investor has, the more financial independence an investor has, and the more influential bitcoin holders become.

Yes, an investor should have the freedom to do so, but given the current stock market or most other investment conditions, investing in Bitcoin seems far more reliable to me. There must be an abundance of real assets, but if an investor tries to observe the future price trend of Bitcoin, it can easily be predicted that it will increase a lot. Many critics are seen running various disinformation campaigns on Bitcoin's upward trend but most of the time we see its price bouncing back. I can see if the young entrepreneur or investor at the moment tends to accumulate bitcoins on a regular basis, it can greatly benefit them in the future. That's when they realized how much Bitcoin could rise in value.

This link you provided I have gone through it and I don't think if that wallet was compromised. alot of points has been made in regards to that, although some says it compromised while some said it's transaction fee deducted, but no tangible reason to show it was hacked. Because if it was hacked all his funds will have been removed. This was why this kind of  thread was created [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why?To enable people to be careful About Wallet issues. But anyway we really need to be careful as we are accumulation our bitcoin, we should as well plan to keep our seed phrase safe to avoid Lost of fund. I bump into a thread yesterday on how to stamp our seed phrase on titanium plate, you can take a look at it, Is it swell to stamp bitcoin seed Phrase on Titanium Plates? I believe it will be helpful and will solve alot of problem to those who are afraid of losing their seed phrase to fire outbreak, flood, rodent attack and any form of unforseen circumstances. Although this strategy does not mean we can not use other backup method but just inclusive.

This reply of mine isn’t too technical, but I just want to remind everyone and add something important. Yes, we have plans to invest, whether gradually to hold for the future, but let’s not forget how to secure our holdings—that’s the most important thing aside from not panicking if the market dumps.

I came across a thread about this.

In need of help, got some of my btc stolen?

He was accumulating without realizing that his wallet had already been compromised, with several transactions, particularly withdrawals, that he didn’t make. So you see, hopefully, we can learn from that and prevent it from happening to us. Imagine holding onto bitcoin for 10 years through gradual investment, only to have it vanish in an instant.

An overwhelming number of normies do not seem to know how to figure out how to employ a sustainable withdrawal rate, and so they end up calculating the whole value, and then figuring out how long they want it to last, and so if they have $600k, then they might say that they can withdraw $60k per year if they want it to last for 10 years, and in bitcoin, that might actually work to have a withdrawal rate that is 10% per year, yet for other investments, they are likely not going to be able to retain their value.. so usually they will make the mistake of withdrawing their principle too soon and NOT making sure that their investment is growing at least as much as what is being withdrawn... and if the investment is not growing at least as much as the withdawal rate they will end up depleting their principle too soon..


if a person reaches a status of having extra bitcoin, then surely he is in a better place to start to withdraw bitcoin on a regular basis and perhaps take years and years to use up the amount that is excess, and if they employ a withdrawal rate that is somewhere between 4% and 10% per year, it is likely that their bitcoin stash will grown in value faster than they withdraw, especially if they calculate their withdrawal rate plan from BTC bottom price indicators, such as the 200-WMA rather than getting overly excited about spot prices that are almost inevitably going to have a whole hell of a lot of variability in them, so if they calculate their wealth (or the value of their holdings based on top prices they may well end up overly withdrawing and overly depleting their principle. and end up getting kicked out of fuck you status. meaning that their chosen withdrawal rate was not sustainable in light of the costs of their living standards..

Your experience shows that fighting emotion and temptation is very important when it comes to Bitcoin or any other long-term investment.  The influence of family or close people, especially if they know our investments, can often influence our decisions.  Many people are tempted to sell assets like Bitcoin to cash in on some immediate needs or luxuries, but you are right that this can be a big mistake.

 Your strategy is now very realistic and intelligent.  Holding BTC for the future with regular income and not selling it when needed, can bring big profits in the long run.  Holding BTC for the future is not just looking at current price growth, but building a strong financial base.

 Also, the way you manage life's essential expenses—such as keeping savings from a steady income source and making purchases without relying on investments—is a great strategy.  This will allow you to keep your BTC or other investments safe for the long term, and fulfill your future goal of financial freedom.

 Your thoughts and strategies can be an inspiration to many who often fall into small temptations and forget their long term goals.