Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 93. (Read 77623 times)

Yes I understand your point, people who are trying to climb up the ladder when it comes to investments shouldn't be more concerned about diversification, when it is obvious that our funds are not even enough to buy us complete 2 or 3 bitcoins. Plebs has no business with diversification as we might run into trouble trying to do that. Diversification should be for people like Elon Musk and likes of them who have lots of billion dollars. Plebs should stick to the golden opportunity that bitcoin has given to all of us and hodl it as the only way to climb up the ladder. Yes it won't be over night but if we act according to the name of the thread buy and Hodl we have a chance.

This is indeed a good visualization about how holding experience will gonna be like and its not really easy as they think since we need to deal with emotional stress brought up by series of pump and dump happening in the market. There are heavy fuds that we can encounter that can change our decisions and this is big trials that needed to pass so that we became successful. I know at start its really hard to control our emotion especially if there's a lot of people posting some negative statements regarding on the news that's why it somehow affect our decision to hold and dump because we don't want to suffer from heavy consequence that brought up by corrections.

But once they experience all of it and they encounter those bull runs and bearish market scenarios for sure they can eliminate the fear then also will just think about that this is just part of the challenge and they can hold their emotion since they have goal set that need to follow.

There is nothing wrong with using some of the profit you are getting from your business to invest in bitcoin. But I don't support someone buying bitcoin at a low price and selling it at a high price for short-term profit because it is like someone who is gambling, and you might end up not accumulating bitcoin if the price doesn't reduce to the point where you want to buy it back. Before you invest in bitcoin, know that bitcoin investment is a long-term investment, like a minimum of 4 years before you can get a good profit that can change your life. I will advise you to accumulate bitcoin with the DCA strategy and hold it for the long term. Before you do that, make sure you have emergency funds that you will use to solve your financial problems so that you will be consistent in accumulating your bitcoin.

I partially agree with you, but holding will be very challenging if you don't knows what it takes and what measures for you to put in place for you to hold effectively, but if you are aware that you just need a source of income and an emergency fund that will keeps you going so that you wouldn't have to fall back to your investment when encountering financial troubles, so if that two things are already in place, it will be much easier for you to consolidate to your holdings without troubles.

The reason for diversification of investment is not because we need money for daily needs and expenses. Maybe you are mistaken all the points he said. Before you start investment it is important you should be certain that   there is a source which can provide your daily needs and emergency funds. If you dont have that part settled dont start any investment. Diversification is done to help build a bigger picture of your investment portfolio so that you will have so many places which will give you future benefits.

Using profits from investment returns from Bitcoin will certainly be very good and if we get profits from the business we are running we can still invest in Bitcoin again, because by having several sources of income this will make it very easy for us to meet our needs. we will need in the future and we will still get profits that we can use for our daily needs from the business.

Don't expect holding without challenges

https://twitter.com/rovercrc/status/1759255957006139651?t=0NPU8k18o81QEJ1MCkWLLQ&s=19


Maybe many will have to understand this that when we are talking about holding, it's not just what you can get into and invest to hold, you have the task ahead to do, starting from the way you will conduct your own research, understand the reason why you should hold, the duration for your holding and how you could make the best of interest while still holding before a particular period of time, from my previous post, I made mention of not afford investing on other assets first before Bitcoin, which means, if you're a potential investors and is having a lot of considerations for an investment, Bitcoin is the best and 3asy way to start up with.

I agree with you, @Tmoonz, because after we have completed our bitcoin accumulation plan, if there is a need to diversify our investment, we should start a business that will generate money that we can use to solve our daily life problems, and it will allow us to hold our bitcoin investment for the long term because it will be a source of income that we will use to solve our daily life problems, and we will not depend on our bitcoin investment to solve them.

But get the context, ser. When I mention "small capital" for investing, it's somewhere between four figures to - let's say an amount that starts the five figure amount - $10,000. Compared to Warren Buffett or some other institutional asset manager's billions, that's absolutely very VERY small.

But if your presumption is starting from a mere few Dollars, then it's either save more to buy the DIP and HODL, or do DCA then HODL which STILL are good paths to start your Bitcoin investment journey from zero. But if you suggest that they "trade", and "trade" with leverage then may God be with them because 90% probability is they can't win against the professional traders and their army of bots.

@michellee, for me i consider JJG'S advice that after building up your Bitcoin investment portfolio to a certain point of considering diversification, that it is advisable to diversify in to real life investment such as selling commodities, real estate or land, investing in altcoin is more like gambling than investment. Fuck shitcoins, it is important spreading your investment in to different assets classes of which shitcoins is a no no for me I don't know about you, is your choice.

@WF you're very correct as this is true that diversification has so much to do with the amount of capital involved to invest, and in every business the capital significantly determines the profit size to be made from the investment. Let me borrow your word plebs, IMO in as much as your investment capital in bitcoin is not running in hundreds to millions of dollars and above then you should be considered a pleb and need not have your capital scattered all around into different coins or other cash investments like gold and real estates all in the name of diversification, the ROI from those scattered investment when accumulated can amount to a peanut compared when you have to go all in concentrated in bitcoin HODLing for a five year time or more.

 The crux of the matter is that one can diversify and still encounter losses in all particularly when you go into the wrong type of investments order than when you chose to sit your portfolio all in bitcoin.

Well if they only have small capital to used then I think they should not focus to hold since there's nothing gonna happen with them if they only decide to hold the small amount of money since if they calculate the profit they get for long term for sure they can only get less that's why instead of focusing on one thing much really better if they split their investment to half and use the 50% for trying to make your money grow by either you trade it or use it on other options that you think can give you a decent profit. The half is automatically for HODL. For sure people will see the best result if they try to find ways to make their bitcoin grow since this can give much better result especially if they are wise taking those good investment online.

I also know its hard to achieve to get good profits or the passive ones but if we gain a lot of experience especially dealing with those risk for sure we can figure out what's bad and good investment for us.

Personally, and in my own opinion, we plebs shouldn't treat our little/limited capital like it's Warren Buffett's billions that needs to be "diversified". It will slow down our ROI plus it's probably not needed. Diversification is made to protect capital and control risks because their billions has more to lose in every small market move. For us plebs, if we truly want to make life-changing profit, then, only my personal opinion, we should take more risks and concentrate capital to just one investment that we can have strong conviction to HODL long term. If you ask me, it's a golden opportunity to buy and HODL Bitcoin.

I suggest you to focus on Bitcoin for now instead of having a lot of investments. Once you can position yourself well in Bitcoin investment, you can start diversifying. But this diversification in altcoins may be more confusing because there are so many altcoins that we don't know which altcoins can rise. Moreover, it looks like altcoin season is about to start so if you have difficulty choosing an altcoin, you might have difficulty making a profit.

But if you focus on accumulating Bitcoin, your chance of making a profit over the next 5 years could be greater. Moreover, in 4 years there will be another halving and maybe there will be another new ATH for Bitcoin. By preparing a Bitcoin portfolio, at least you have saved in the form of Bitcoin from now on which can provide benefits in the future.

But please remember that when investing, whatever it is, whether in Bitcoin or anything else, you have to use the money you can afford so that it doesn't interfere with you meeting your daily needs because that's what's more important. Investing is highly recommended but you also have to think about meeting your daily needs.

This post that I just made might help you with the idea.  If you know how to use Excel, once you put in your formula you can copy and past the same layout, but just change your formula for other variables so you can see how the numbers work out.


Now look, I will show you.  If I keep everything the same, and the ONLY thing that I change is the BTC price appreciation from 8% annually to 2% annually, then the updated numbers will look like this.  Second example

Date   BTC_Price   Weekly$Amt   $Invst/Yr   RunTotal$Invst   BTC/Yr   TotalBTC   Total$Value
1/14/25   $56,666.10   $10.00   $520.00   $520.00   0.00926742   0.00926742   $525.15
1/14/26   $57,799.42   $12.00   $624.00   $1,144.00   0.01090285   0.02017027   $1,165.83
1/14/27   $58,955.41   $14.40   $748.80   $1,892.80   0.01282688   0.03299714   $1,945.36
1/15/28   $60,134.52   $17.28   $898.56   $2,791.36   0.01509044   0.04808759   $2,891.72
1/14/29   $61,337.21   $20.74   $1,078.27   $3,869.63   0.01775346   0.06584105   $4,038.51
1/14/30   $62,563.95   $24.88   $1,293.93   $5,163.56   0.02088643   0.08672748   $5,426.01
1/14/31   $63,815.23   $29.86   $1,552.71   $6,716.27   0.02457227   0.11129975   $7,102.62
1/15/32   $65,091.54   $35.83   $1,863.25   $8,579.52   0.02890855   0.14020830   $9,126.37
1/14/33   $66,393.37   $43.00   $2,235.90   $10,815.43   0.03401006   0.17421836   $11,566.94
1/14/34   $67,721.24   $51.60   $2,683.09   $13,498.51   0.04001184   0.21423020   $14,507.93

In the second example, I have accumulated more BTC with my $13.5k invested (0.2142302 BTC), but they are worth less (around $14.5k) than they were in the first example (about $18.2k) because at the end of the second period the BTC price is only $68k rather than $120k, yet at the same time, you can see that my amount of dollars invested for the whole period is the same (at $13.5k) in each of the examples.  Now if the BTC price goes shooting up after 10 years, I am going to be better off in the second example as compared with the first, even though the second example might feel a lot more painful during the period of investment because it is not appreciating as much.  

We could also have examples in which the BTC price goes shooting up a lot during these next 10 years, but I have not been able to accumulate very many BTC.  How about I show you a third example of the BTC price going up 20% per year for the next 10 years, but the amount that I invest remains the same?  Look with my $13.5k invested, I have ONLY accumulated right around 0.08509176 BTC in 10 years, but they are worth about $29.3k:

Date   BTC_Price   Weekly$Amt   $Invst/Yr   RunTotal$Invst   BTC/Yr   TotalBTC   Total$Value
1/14/25   $66,666.00   $10.00   $520.00   $520.00   0.00850918   0.00850918   $567.27
1/14/26   $79,999.20   $12.00   $624.00   $1,144.00   0.00850918   0.01701835   $1,361.45
1/14/27   $95,999.04   $14.40   $748.80   $1,892.80   0.00850918   0.02552753   $2,450.62
1/15/28   $115,198.85   $17.28   $898.56   $2,791.36   0.00850918   0.03403670   $3,920.99
1/14/29   $138,238.62   $20.74   $1,078.27   $3,869.63   0.00850918   0.04254588   $5,881.48
1/14/30   $165,886.34   $24.88   $1,293.93   $5,163.56   0.00850918   0.05105506   $8,469.34
1/14/31   $199,063.61   $29.86   $1,552.71   $6,716.27   0.00850918   0.05956423   $11,857.07
1/15/32   $238,876.33   $35.83   $1,863.25   $8,579.52   0.00850918   0.06807341   $16,261.13
1/14/33   $286,651.60   $43.00   $2,235.90   $10,815.43   0.00850918   0.07658258   $21,952.52
1/14/34   $343,981.92   $51.60   $2,683.09   $13,498.51   0.00850918   0.08509176   $29,270.03


There is no problem to figure out ways to increase your income and to decrease your expenses, but it is not necessarily true that you are going to be better off by investing your money in other ways, unless you have some actual specific talent or sure fire way that you are going to make money from the capital that you invest.  

It is true that some people are not going to be able to make as much money by working for someone else, so they may well need to figure out some ways to increase their own income through the use of capital.. so these are not always easy choices, yet the answer is not obvious either because some people will have been much better off just sticking with their current line of employment or even supplementing various kinds of work that they do rather than getting distracted in to other investments that might not necessarily be better.. and we might be deviating a bit from this thread if we are arguing about the ways to increase income and/or to reduce expenses.. including sometimes there may be needs to go to college or to engage in some kind of professional training that might not pay in the short term but it would increase income greatly in the longer term.. a few or several years down the road.

Your goal is actually good, namely having just one asset, namely Bitcoin, which you will accumulate in the long term for 5 years. However, you should also think about other investments or businesses that you can use if you really need it or in an emergency and it would be even better if these other investments or businesses can help smooth or increase your Bitcoin accumulation.
So you should also think about this, because you don't know what will happen to you in the future, you will most likely use your Bitcoins to solve it if there is no other alternative. And my advice is very short and simple, but very useful.

I agree with you, its better to be strong in one asset (bitcoin), than to have so many weak investments. If I have build my bitcoin portfolio at least to maybe up to 5 years of accumulation I can now start think of diversifying but this might be too early in some case especially when i have not  accumulated enough bitcoin, I always wanted to have at least 10 bitcoin before I considered any other investment, but you have also told me I should be prepared for a case where my investment doesn't give any return, and till now I've not actually understood the lesson you are trying to give me in respect to this, I'm building up myself in terms of cash too and I'm still consistent with buying bitcoin with DCA.

I see no problem comparing bitcoin investment to other investments - but those kinds of topics are not very central to this thread, and likely will lead us too astray to go down those kinds of comparison paths  - even though sometimes we can still talk about the role of diversification - even though that also is not the topical thrust of this thread. which like you mentioned Odohu is bitcoin first.. so let's figure out bitcoin first before devolving into considerations in regards to potentially related concerns, but not getting distracted into the related concerns..  therefore working towards keeping our focus upon king daddy, aka my lil precious.


Many people actually confusingly equate volatility to risk, which truly is not the case.

Yes, bitcoin is very volatile and also nearly inevitably going to continue to be very volatile for the next 8-20- years or longer..

Some people like to proclaim bitcoin is becoming more and more stable, which largely is either a bunch of bullshit or wishful thinking or merely spin that is neither true and is not likely to be true in the future, even though they are seeming to want to make themselves feel good about investing in bitcoin.

Sure, maybe once bitcoin gets into the territory of 10x to 100x larger market cap than gold (which would be $5 million to $50 million prices), then maybe it will start to become somewhat less volatile at that point.  maybe?  It is not guaranteed that it will become less volatile even then (which is actually 100 to 1,000x larger market cap from now), but it seems to make sense that 10x to 100x larger market cap than gold would cause more capital to get its price to move.

Another thing is that there are a lot of ways to attempt to deal with bitcoin's likely ongoing, persistence and inevitable volatility... and a decently first way of dealing with it is to recognize and appreciate that it exists and is going to continue to exist.


Sure having a long term mindset and a long term way of dealing with bitcoin's volatility is likely helpful, and even more helpful if BTC prices end up going up, which is not guaranteed, but many of us know that bitcoin still remains a great (if not the best) asymmetric bet to the upside, as you mentioned.


Actually you are correct that either ongoing buying and/or buying on the dip would have ended up being more profitable than just holding since it would have had lowered the average cost per BTC.


Of course, including ongoingly buying.


Yep.. that surely seems to make a lot of sense.  Keep building. and staying focused on BTC, and you likely are going to find that you have more options in the future, even though it could take a while to play out and of course, it is not guaranteed..  and so in that regard, since it is not guaranteed, that should help in figuring out what is going to be an appropriate size to reach and/or to maintain through such likely ongoing process of accumulating and/or maintaining.


That is retarded.

Gold is not safer than bitcoin, and you must not recognize, understand and/or appreciate what bitcoin is if you believe that gold is safer than bitcoin.


It is probably worse, especially if you are a brand new investor.  If you already have them then maybe that would be another story in terms of figuring out if you need to diversify out of them, and of course, stopping investing in those other things and investing into bitcoin is another way of diversifying out of some of your exposure in other asset classes.


Sure, I would not recommend anything close to 100% in bitcoin, even though some people are able to do it.. but starting out somewhere between 5% to 25% in bitcoin could be a reasonable position, yet each person has to tailorize his exposure to bitcoin in accordance with his own personal circumstances.


Again, you must be talking down the road because I see no reason to focus on anything beyond bitcoin and cash in the beginning, and then once you build up your investment portfolio, then you might consider something like land and/or maybe equities.. but gold?  bitcoin serves a similar purpose as gold but better, so I don't see any reason to get exposure to gold unless you already have it then maybe you figure out if you are going to keep it.  But getting exposure to gold seems like a pretty BIGASS waste of time and not necessary, unless you happen to live in a situation or location that people are already accustom in trading in it.. but that seems less and less likely these days... but hey, whatever.  Guys can do what they like in terms of those allocations and when (at what stage in their investment life) they might allocate in some of the assets that are neither bitcoin and cash.   

New investors certainly need to learn about bitcoin before they invest in it. This approach is really needed, especially in this context, they are still new and need guidance to deepen their knowledge about Bitcoin. but with what we are talking about, maybe that is the first step for new investors to dive into bitcoin. Regardless of the adjustment of the money they have, of course they must be able to apply it in each period to accumulate bitcoin because that will make them indirectly enter into long-term investment planning. Bitcoin has a better advantage compared to Gold because Bitcoin has a limited supply and when demand continues to increase we will see a significant increase.

In general, long-term investments are always in demand by many people, especially after bitcoin etf, of course newcomers or new investors continue to come to invest in Bitcoin. So, back to our investment planning, do we really have the inner resilience to remain in our planning for long-term investment?  because often a wrong decision occurs which can stop long-term investment planning. In that phase, whether we are beginners or those of us who have invested in Bitcoin, really strong determination is needed to continue to hold back our BTC ownership from the temptation of the existing lust for profit.

You like to say "yes" but on the other hand you also say "no", however a beginner investor must first understand what bitcoin is and understand at least about basic things related to investment because it is their understanding that will sustain the investment journey they are doing, because if they don't understand at all about what investment is then obviously it is likely that they will experience many losses because their journey is not based on knowledge and understanding, I understand that not all beginners have a lot of understanding about investing because it will only be formed when they already have high flying hours in the process but what I mean is that at least you must have an understanding of the basics that will certainly tell you about what you can and cannot do during the accumulation journey that you have planned.

For other things, yes I agree with you that bitcoin is more recommended to be made as a long-term investment which is indirectly an intermediary that has the potential to bring you to a fairly lucrative financial level in the future, and also for budget issues, of course it is highly recommended to allocate a budget amount that you are able to account for because of the possibility of risks that cannot always be avoided considering market movements that have a fluctuating nature and besides that try that it is a budget amount that will not be used for anything else, so simply put you have to separate between money for living needs, money for emergency funds and money for allocation on accumulation on bitcoin, because not a few also some investors who end up experiencing delays in the allocation for the accumulation of bitcoin when they experience some unexpected situations that make them need money urgently until in the end they are forced to sell some of their bitcoin, and this is the importance of thinking about and having an emergency fund as a precaution before you really start accumulating bitcoin.