Topic: Campaign to improve posting quality for local boards - page 5. (Read 3898 times)

Thanks OP for bringing such a well minded compaign. Local Boards posts needed to be informative, well explained, well researched which useful for readers. Newbie generally started with very poor quality posting but your idea will help all local board to produce constructive posters. Bitcointalk is best forum for any crypto related information and its should be cleaned from junk and spam posts.

I have shared compaign in my local Thread Pakistan and like to be added in your first page. I have double checked before posting and I believe that there is no mistake. You can check it and if you see any mistake, I will edit.

Pakistan پوسٹ کے معیار کو بڑھانے کے لیے مہمات

Rikafip explained it very well already because our campaign is only intended to make aware of a better posting quality. Of course, our campaign can't solve all issues here on Bitcointalk and even if few members show improved posting quality, it's already a nice achievement.
And everyone, who's showing a meaningful improvement will get a reward measured in Merit.  

Plagiarism is what moderators need to enforce by banning offenders. It's 100% a forum rules issue and banning is not our business here besides explaining that plagiarism will lead to a (permanent) ban due to Bitcointalk's rules and that proper quoting is necessary for a good post to all other members (to know, where the copied content comes from).
In addition, light_warrior disqualified himself completely from any meaningful discussion due to his inappropriate, wrong and rude accusations.

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Depends on if they are here
a) just to abuse / spam the forum
b) for a genuine reason

For a), we can't do anything except banning them
For b), we can talk peacefully and remind them, that such writings are not beneficial for Bitcointalk.

But some people don't know. Some even don't know how to use BBCode properly.
I know someone who I referred to Bitcointalk, he's very old already but a nice person and it's very difficult for him to use Bitcointalk due to the outdated layout. That's why basic guides, tutorials and even campaigns like ours can be helpful.
Of course, not for everyone on Bitcointalk and we have repeatedly announced that it's impossible to teach everyone but it's very possible for us to teach some people (as many as possible of course).

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And we are targeting those, who are willing to learn.  


I've never claimed that and if that sounded like that, it's most likely due to the fact that light_warrior took my post completely out of context and spammed his hateful, misleading nonsense in our topic by derailing it.
Of course, our campaign doesn't target outright trolls or plagiarizers.
We all know these abusers who are just here to commit plagiarism etc..
Yes, ban them right away.
But I believe that we have new (and old) members here, who are not (yet / still) aware of it and our campaign is a great help for such members.

That's true, spammes, abusers and shitosters don't like our campaign because we are actively advocating against industrial shitposting.  
Those, who don't want to learn how to fish, despite being teached several times, repeatedly, I can support it, if they get banned (plagiarism / shitposting) or a neutral trust like from actmyname (shitposting).

I never said that what 1miau and GazetaBitcoin are doing is useless and waste of time. What I said was that not everyone show even slight desire to learn. Even if you give them all the needed tools and create the best opportunities. As far as I understood, 1miau thought that that kind of users whom  light_warrior repeatedly reports for plagiarism, could be taught and set right. But I believe that sometimes it is not possible, because such members don't even want to try, because they are not being systematically banned and they feel impunity, that is why they don`t see any point in making things according to the rules. And such users won't appreciate or use what 1miau and GazetaBitcoin created to help them. That is why I think they would rather be reported and banned.

Just because you can't improve everyone's post quality/habits, doesn't automatically mean that what 1miau/GazetaBitcoin (and others) are trying to do is completely useless and waste of time. Sure, we all know that majority of members (especially new ones) are essentially shitposters who came for one reason only, but every once in a while promising new member appears who needs just a little bit of help to improve and change the bad habits.

I understand your point about teaching people how to fish, and I support your efforts to make this forum less spammed, however I have doubts, reasonable as far as I can see, that everyone can be taught. I mean, users which light_warrior reports in the Plagiarism and AI report threads make regular copy past and apparently they don't see any problem with this, despite the existence of many training and quality improving initiatives and help in understanding the rules of the forum, as well as opportunities to turn to senior users for advice.

I also sometimes come across newbies, and not only newbies, who systematically write AI-generated posts, and many of them are starting their way on the forum by doing that. I don't think that such people can be retrained or taught, because they themselves do not show any intention to do so, if they write plagiarism or AI content in their first posts. They don't even need to be familiar with the rules of the forum, it's enough just to be a conscious person and understand why you shouldn't do that. These are not some special rules of this forum, which turn out to be so complicated and incomprehensible that beginners break them without understanding it.

Therefore, those whom light_warrior reports hardly deserve a different treatment, because they do not show any motivation to learn and change their behavior. Unfortunately, they will not even see that you have started such an initiative, let alone put in the effort and learn. Therefore, in my opinion, the principle "take a fishing rod, hit them on the head, and drive them out of the pond for fishing" works better with such users.

That seems to be a very helpful topic, I've noted it down and will read it later, when I've some more time, maybe next week.
Of course, it's advanced content but definitely something, we would like to encourage with our campaign and it's also a good read even for Newbies.
Maybe I need to go a bit more into detail in our campaign introduction post, that such educational topics, like linked by you above, are also eligible for a Merit reward and exactly what we want to see more often.  

I've not written that you've said that shitposting would be something normal. I've said, that statements like from you, that we can't do anything against shitposting, will inevitably lead to resignation and as a result, shitposters will be dancing on the table.


It's a noble goal and we should continue to reach that goal, even if it's only one step at a time. 


We have / had some provocateurs as well. Luckily we got rid of them. 
I hope, you'll get rid of them as well. A harsh approach helped us to succeed. Maybe it's helpful for you as well. 


Okay, because our campaign is also intended to remind about common mistakes like pyramid quotes, avoiding unnecessary Denglish etc. where also older members are frequently not up to date and commit such mistakes. At least in our German board.


Of course, everyone will have a different viewpoint here. But what I'm finding very helpful, is to make aware, in which ways centralized exchanges can be dangerous. Most centralized exchanges don't have any legitimate license, even Germany's regulatory office (BAFIN, German SEC) doesn't care at all to hold these shithouses responsible. Deposited coins on exchanges are always in danger because we can't send them anywhere, when deposited. Not our keys, not our coins - I can't repeat it often enough. 
Newbies should be aware about the dangers of centralized exchanges and the number of posts (also in our local board) about issues with centralized exchanges is quite high and in the end, it is always leading to the conclusion that these Newbies "didn't know about it".
Well, if we can make aware about it, they might know about it, before it happens. 

Looks like I have confused "courage" with "stupidity" for your case.  
Thanks for coming here and showing everyone that I've been right about your shitpost against our campaign.  

You haven't provided a single legitimate, constructive criticism. Only thing you have provided is a low-level shitpost for the sake of providing a shitpost.

I don't know why you got offended. Obviously you got offended because you left a butthurt reply in zasad@'s translation.

Bold claim, dude, bold claim! You've obviously not bothered to look at my post history before writing such bullshit, which tells a lot about you.
Don't get sick by all of your over self-confidence because it might hurt you badly.

LOL, your plagiarism reports, where you add all the time the same, unnecessary fluff?




No shit, sherlock! Or does someone expect that plagiarizers are selling overprized flowers?

What's the intention to add this unnecessary bullshit fluff in every of your reports?
To have more characters that your shitposts are eligible to receive a reward for sigspam?  

Bold claim once again and, as expected, zero proof.
Gonna report him for plagiarism as well with your stupid posts?

No need to give me any advice, especially when you are providing exactly zero valid criticism. Because after your childish shitpost you just looked like a washed clown.  

Depends on if you are are shitposter / their friend or not. If you aren't a shitposter and as well not their friend, you don't have to fear anything.  

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Maybe you've missed to notice it: I'm not active in the Russian local board...


What you are doing might be a, well, let's call it noble effort but I believe the issue you don't understand boils down to:

"Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will be fed for a lifetime"

I'm more in favor to teach people how to learn fishing.  

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The viewpoint, that we can't do anything about posting quality at all, that shitposting is getting normailzed, that all effort to increase posting quality is wasted time and that such campaigns, like we did, are getting belittled, IS a dangerous point of view because it's paving the way to a Bitcointalk, where shitposting is something "normal".
- More and more valuable members will leave the forum because no one wants to wade through spam
- More and more services will quit advertising on Bitcointalk
- Bitcoin will become even more menaningless, Back then I've discovered Bitcointalk due to well-written technical posts.

That's true but our campaign never claimed to remove ALL of spam, plagiarism, shitposting etc.


D'accord, BADecker can get banned right away, I don't mind.  

Our campaign is just creating awareness, what's important to have a look at for a better posting quality.
And as a Merit source, we have some leverage: reward good posts by giving out Merit. We are not saying our campaign will solve all problems but it's a step into the right direction.
But we need more people pushing for this.
And at that point your "we can't do anything anyways" attitude is not helpful.  

It's not an "objective reality", as explained above. The campaign already achieved a positive outcome.

I disagree here.
If that topic to create awareness about the dangers of centralized exchanges, helps one person, it*s already a positive outcome. I'm always surprised how many people still don't know such basics.

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At least, that's constructive criticism. +1
And could be seen as extension to my point 1 of my 1miau Merit criteria.

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How information is presented is a big criteria to make content more readable. No one likes walls of texts because it’s very hard to read 20 lines of textblocks. We should always try to divide texts into meaningful paragraphs, add sub-headlines, add tables to visualize content etc.
BBCode has so many options.
And of course, we should also avoid pyramid quotes. Many idiots still do this.

In our local board, applying our local langage is very important. Bitcointalk has always been a very educated place and who really wants to read loads of illiterate gibberish, where so many spelling errors, punctuation errors, awful Denglish, inappropraite words or similar bullshit is written.
GazetaBitcoin has agreed to this, and it's hard to think about any reason, why we should not recommend to apply our local languages properly at a high level.

Courage? Ha ha. It doesn't take courage to respond to your bullshit post. If you can't take criticism well, you need to work on yourself.

Me? Offensively? Why should I be offended? It's funny. Let your zasad write what he wants, it doesn't make me cold or hot.

Yes, I appeared on the forum much later than you, but, nevertheless, I have done several times more useful for the forum than you. Take a walk through the threads that deal with plagiarism reports, with AI shitposters, with ban evaders and you'll see my usefulness.

I'm not even talking about Ratimov at all. He has done 1000 times more useful than you.

So my advice to you, learn to take criticism normally first, and then communicate with people.

And yes, keep doing what you are doing. Maybe you'll get something out of it Good luck to you.


Is that a threat?

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If you're such fighters against shitty posts in localized sections, why aren't you fighting back? Why don't you send reports to the moderators on such shitty posts?





I can cite many more posts like this from our newbies.

Or is your fight only in words? Where are your actions? Why doesn't your zasad send reports on these posts? And there are a huge number of such posts in the Russian section.

Further communication with you is useless. I'd rather go find a plagiarizer or an AI shitposter. That would be more useful.

I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Yes, it's nice to see and I've asked him to announce it here, so I'm sure he'll also say a few words. 

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Unfortunately, instead of evaluating how posting quality could get improved, a few (obviously butthurt) shitposters and their friends appeared in the translated topic and didn't spare with unconstructive criticism. 

Also, to give zasad@ an appropriate answer to counter these unhelpful posts, I would like to address all points brought up there (legitimate ones and not legitimate ones):


satscraper alleged that:



Well, if he had read a bit further, he would know what's meant with "avoid unnecessary Denglish" / "Romglish" etc.:

So, avoiding unnecessary Denglish is only valid for words, when there's a known and common translation in our native language. Even in German, I wouldn't call words "Shitcoin", "Fork" (if a Blockchain split like BCH or BSV is meant) or similar Blockchain-specific words (if there's no common translation available).
Maybe it's a bit different for Russian and of course, advocating to select Russian words instead of (avoidable English ones) might appear in a bad light since Putler invaded Ukraine.
But regarding this, keep one thing in mind: It's far better to go after Putler than not to apply the Russian language properly. Ukrainians die from Putin's unnecessary war every day but no people die from applying the Russian language correctly...
For our German laguage, I can only tell that it's just common sense to think a bit, if there's a common translation available and APPLY THE TRANSLATION.

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Ratimov alleged that:



While I believe, important parts can be lost in translation, I only want to address outright false statements here:

It's wrong that our campaign didn't achieve anything positive. Obviously, Ratimov hasn't read anything in our original topic. Because our topic has 100% support in our Romanian section and PrivacyG's very positive reception. In our German section, we have positive examples like CoinEraser and it's a fact that posts have gotten better. Less pyramid quotes, less spam, less unnecessary Denglish (also, because I'm deleting this in my topics), more interesting giveaways, especially from Turbartuluk (GazetaBitcoin can confirm it) and that's only what our campaign achieved so far. It's still a project to keep expanding and as we can see now, our topic was brought to the Russian section as well. 

About Ratimov's crazy accusation that there's "nothing useful in that topic" and "that he didn't see any practical advice", it's an outright lie. Our whole topic is giving important advice how to improve posting quality. Because common mistakes like pyramid quotes are still an issue. People are lazy and we need to remind them about it again and again. If that's not enough, repeated offenders need to be excluded from any additional Merits (and those who show good posting quality should be rewarded, because rewarding good posts is how MERIT is intended to work), offenders should get their shitposts deleted or, like from actmyname, get a neutral trust. My whole topic consists of common advice what to to better and the past has shown, that these problems, which are brought up in my topic, are far from being solved. Our topic is one approach of many to improve Bitcointalk.

After all, a reply like from Ratimov is suggesting a very dangerous viewpoint: that we can't do anything about posting quality at all, that shitposting is getting normailzed, that all effort to increase posting quality is wasted time (it's not true at all) and even that advocating for a better posting quality would be "spam". 
LOL...

At this point, I just hope that Google Translate made massive errors because what Ratimov alleged here is insanely wrong.

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The most stupid take is coming from shitpost apologist light_warrior:



At this point, I don't need to add much more, he's just what we've seen in the German section as well: a pitiful shitpost apologist, who's extremely butthurt that zasad@ dared to encourage a better posting quality. 
Because we all know what shitposters and their friends don't like: being exposed.
Let's see if he's courageous enough to reply here and explain his pro-shitposting bullshit.
We will promise to give shitposters and their friends a hard time.


But of course, it's important to mention that there were also constructive posts like from Etranger or witcher_sense. 
I've rewarded these comments with Merit. 

Things were different until 2018, 2019. I would say that's  a bit strange since the Bitcointalk community has grown year by year... and is not just about poor posting quality, there are fewer and fewer posts..

zasad finished the first translation of our campaign thread, for Russian local board.


I checked the adaptation and I believe it looks good.

Congrats for your work, zasad! You are first forum member which manages to create a nice adaptation of our thread in a local board! And thank you for spreading the word about this campaign!

It's difficult to say "local board xy has poor posting quality". Because we need to have a nucanced view here.
It's a known fact that shitposters are active in all local boards (except inactive ones). Maybe because it's more difficult for Campaign Managers to review such posts. Maybe...
But on the other hand, many local boards have quality posters, too. Maybe because it's easier for someone to write quality content in their native language (removes language barrier). Maybe...

We have reasons for and against. So, we need to have a nucanced view.

What we should do for sure: improve posting quality for local boards. It's never wrong to look out, where we can improve.  

Do you think local boards have poor posting quality? In some ways I don't see it that way

Today, zasad@ has PMed me and offered to make a customized translation for his Russian local board.
I've agreed to it and added zasad@ to our reserved translations list:

Reserved Translations

...
Russian - zasad@


I'm looking forward to his translation and I'm happy that our campaign is getting more attention and brought to additional local boards.  

Of course, take your time to revise it and do it properly. We don't have any time limit for your local board version to be done, so no hurry.
If your published version is legitimate, well written and you are bringing up valid and important points, I'm sure your effort will be rewarded. It's always a pleasure to see people willing to improve here on Bitcointalk.
We have seen many people who are not willing to improve, even doubling down on their wrongdoing and that's very disappointing. 

So, you are already one step above of them. 

I'll revise all of the content again, Sir. Have a good day!

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I'll revise all of the content properly. Have a good day!

Woow, it is very sad to hear it's not a genuine effort. 
And after all, our topic is about posting quality, if it's indeed just pasted into an automated translator, it's a really bad lesson learned. Maybe we should add it to our Merit criteria but it should be common sense somehow (well, many rules are common sense and still we see members violating them  ).
I don't know how many parts are affected but yes, shouldn't happen.

Many thanks for consulting 2 members of our Bengali local board, dear GazetaBitcoin. 

Yes, it's a good suggestion. A second chance is deserved in my opinion. 
I'm looking forward to it.

After I talked with 2 Bengali users with reputation on the forum, I understood that the translation content is very poor, uses inadequate Bengali words and, worst of worst, some parts were translated using automated translating tools. This is totally not acceptable and is also against forum rules:


As a consequence I suggest you to do again the entire translation from scratch and do it properly this time.

GazetaBitcoin has already delivered a very detailed explanation, so I've not much to add.
Of course, it's also possible to adjust your Bitcointalk topic after publication and add some more points later.
Maybe a few Bitcointalk members from your local sections will have some interesting ideas about issues to address in your Bengali local board and you can implement them.

The linked topics in our German / Romanian local versions for your Bengali local version can also be added later, if you don't have any time yet and just want to present most of the basics. But after all, it's also important for these basics to be customized for your local board.
When reading your posts, readers should get an impression which mistakes to avoid / which issues to improve to get a better posting quality in your local board.  

Don't hurry, even if it takes some time, it's fine because a nice version for your local board is very important.