Casinos can use AI to get additional edge?

BTCGamblePro

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 04:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

What happends is that random result get bias and there is always space for it to happend.

AI can be use to countermeassure the bias being more accurrate with the prediction identifying recurring pattems and exploting them.

yvesp110

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Quote from: michellee on July 09, 2019, 12:45:30 AM

Quote from: virtualx on July 08, 2019, 02:00:23 PM

Quote from: Rufsilf on June 24, 2019, 02:56:06 AM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

But we cannot deny with AI because the technology has already developed to better and I think in the future, AI will grow fast so it will help any industry including gambling industry to run a simple process. I think many gamblers will not have a problem if the gambling website has AI on their site to help them especially to handle the games. But yes, they need to try so hard to win and they need to make better strategy and of course, they still need to have the luck to win.

This is not something new in the market. We had the first casino which used AI to boost its business back in 2018. It has been a trend ever since and many casinos are making use of the great potential of AI to maximize their revenues and cut down costs. Since it could make the casino system a bit transparent, people are going to get involved in the adventure.

Betwrong

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Quote from: GreatArkansas on July 10, 2019, 03:51:25 AM

On what like scenarios of gambling in casinos to use AI? Huh

Anyone can give it a scenario?
Like if you will play poker, your opponents are also human, right? Where they can use AI there?

Or maybe someone will use AI instead of a human to sit on the table? Something like that? If that so, that is really unfair, you are playing online with a computer without knowing it is really legit that they are not watching the whole game especially the cards.

AI can beat anyone on Earth in chess game, that's for sure, but with poker it is not so certain. I personally saw like a new poker site lost over 1 BTC because of using bots. Bots may be good against inexperienced poker players, but almost everyone who has played over 500 games will find a way to exploit it sooner or later.

And yet I agree with you that players should be warned that they are playing against a bot. The owner of the site I mentioned above was an honest guy, so he listed by name all the bots on his site.

GreatArkansas

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On what like scenarios of gambling in casinos to use AI? Huh

Anyone can give it a scenario?
Like if you will play poker, your opponents are also human, right? Where they can use AI there?

Or maybe someone will use AI instead of a human to sit on the table? Something like that? If that so, that is really unfair, you are playing online with a computer without knowing it is really legit that they are not watching the whole game especially the cards.

farwellbit

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My question is how exactly do you get to know that these Casinos are not really cheating?? I don't know what you believe but I still think that no matter what, these casinos will still be finding ways to put everything mostly in their favor so they wouldn't be the one losing the most. I don't think any of these casinos wants to end up going broke, cause you know for sure that if they do it is going to be an end of business for them and they are not going to be able to run their business any longer. So they will always do anything possible to remain in business. This is gambling, don't trust anyone.

Nellayar

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Quote from: romero121 on June 23, 2019, 04:45:22 PM

We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

A game is a game! No one can overpass it. That is why many people are losing streak in gambling. Because we don't know how a certain gambling works. But whatever does a gambling has, we cannot do anything just to depend to our own luck. We cannot blame the site because gambling will not say that they are cheating their users in order to prevent a lucky player that wins their games.

logicgate

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Quote from: angel55 on July 08, 2019, 09:41:33 AM

Ai wont change the game odds but it will pick up on player's betting behaviors and the results can be used to have more effective advertising to bring in more customers.

Anyone remember Ocean's 13 and how they used AI to check if a player's win was legit or they were cheating.

This could be instrumental in Sin restoring the trust of many among us to get back to casinos and play a slightly fair game. I think that it could be implied in different possible ways. If it is used to ensure the transparency, I think the deployment of AI in the business will bring more money to the casino. In addition, it will make the process more easy and convenient.

Betwrong

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Quote from: michellee on July 08, 2019, 09:22:38 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on July 08, 2019, 04:46:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

I think the casino will do something to prevent the gambler gets more winning. They will modify the AI to work as they want so they can control the game, and they still take the profit. Maybe we don't know how they can do that, but I believe that when it comes for the profit, the casino will do what they need to take a big profit in the short term or long term. The AI system will help the casino and the owner and make their work simple than before.

OMG, can't you read? Do you know, what does "provably fair" mean in gambling? Please do at least some research on the matter, you will not regret it, I promise. Because currently you sound not like someone who has spent almost 3 years on bitcointalk discussing crypto gambling, but rather like a character from a movie about 19th century gambling.

In short, in a provably fair casino a player can know for sure, with the power of math, that the results were not rigged. That's a great achievement, and it's a pity that not all gamblers are aware of it yet.

michellee

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Quote from: virtualx on July 08, 2019, 02:00:23 PM

Quote from: Rufsilf on June 24, 2019, 02:56:06 AM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

But we cannot deny with AI because the technology has already developed to better and I think in the future, AI will grow fast so it will help any industry including gambling industry to run a simple process. I think many gamblers will not have a problem if the gambling website has AI on their site to help them especially to handle the games. But yes, they need to try so hard to win and they need to make better strategy and of course, they still need to have the luck to win.

virtualx

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Quote from: Rufsilf on June 24, 2019, 02:56:06 AM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

shield132

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And what about if we use artificial intelligence against casinos? Will we beat them? Or it's just matter of task whether our AI beat their AI? No, there is no need of implementing artificial intelligence for casinos in order to make better profit. At first it will be 100% shown that you always lose on one casino which uses AI and have better chances on another which doesn't use AI, it automatically decreases trust of AI used casino. On another hand there is no need of AI because mathematically chances of casinos are always high and games are built that way, that's the reason why there is always house edge.

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on July 06, 2019, 03:52:07 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 02:15:08 PM

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I agree with the logic you used here - "it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated." With AI, the difficulty bar is raised higher, so you have a lot of catching up to do. You will feel disappointed because it is like you have no way of winning the game. So what would be your reaction if you learned that particular casino is using AI? For me, I won't play anymore on that site. Better give at least a good chance of winning to your players. Do not be so greedy!

That's what I imagine a smart casino would do. Just mid-level difficulty on AIs. It's already a game of chance anyway so people would still be losing money. Not to mention they also earn a lot (probably more) from purely chance based games like slots.

angel55

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Ai wont change the game odds but it will pick up on player's betting behaviors and the results can be used to have more effective advertising to bring in more customers.

Anyone remember Ocean's 13 and how they used AI to check if a player's win was legit or they were cheating.

michellee

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Quote from: Betwrong on July 08, 2019, 04:46:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

I think the casino will do something to prevent the gambler gets more winning. They will modify the AI to work as they want so they can control the game, and they still take the profit. Maybe we don't know how they can do that, but I believe that when it comes for the profit, the casino will do what they need to take a big profit in the short term or long term. The AI system will help the casino and the owner and make their work simple than before.

Betwrong

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Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

jademaxsuy

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well AI is the common to betting platform but it could not be controlled by anyone else or manipulate the results. You see that therr are individuals winning in the betting process.

Try 777coin bitcoin casino and test your skills and win the games.

Johnzky

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 04:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

If AI can apply in real world gambling in which physical is in approach so what more in online gaming in which the program is involve?yeah 100% AI is in play for casinos to get more edge

In this random numbers involving it is. MOre easy to apply artificial intelligence to beat the players and the house to succeed

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 02:15:08 PM

Quote from: yvesp110 on July 03, 2019, 07:00:11 AM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 11:13:10 AM

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I agree with the logic you used here - "it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated." With AI, the difficulty bar is raised higher, so you have a lot of catching up to do. You will feel disappointed because it is like you have no way of winning the game. So what would be your reaction if you learned that particular casino is using AI? For me, I won't play anymore on that site. Better give at least a good chance of winning to your players. Do not be so greedy!

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 11:13:10 AM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on July 01, 2019, 06:38:20 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 01, 2019, 01:14:13 PM

Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

thats totally overkill! ripping the money of the gamblers at its best!
should be discreet otherwise, their area will be like a hunted one!

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can be used in order to provide benefits to the gamblers too. It is not that only the gambling casino can take benefit from AI.
By using Artificial intelligence online gambling can be made more interactive and user friendly.

TheCoinGrabber

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Quote from: yvesp110 on July 04, 2019, 07:00:46 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 02:15:08 PM

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I understand your point here. But it is never going to happen because this will cost a casino all its users. You just cannot win from AI if it’s on the other end of the table. Better go through the story of world champion Lee Sedol and vs. the AI robots AlphaGo and you will be surprised to know that the world champion could not win from the AL robot. So the casinos will not do that but can make use of AI in other different activities.

That's what I suggested they could attempt to do. Let's say there's only 1 human on a table, they can have the AIs on various difficulty levels that makes it not impossible for the human to win. Basically like playing Poker Superstars, it can still be an enjoyable game and the human might not notice.

Topic: Casinos can use AI to get additional edge? (Read 8326 times)