Casinos can use AI to get additional edge? - page 5.

leea-1334

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

We definitely know that. I think a friend did a test on my before and asked me to guess a few numbers from something to something (I forgotten!) and he showed me that I picked the same number, or the same pattern of numbers,,, over and over. And I did not even realize it.

Casinos definitely watch players, and they see if you like to take big risks and low chances, they will let you do it!

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Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:19:12 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

Lossing streak is not a valid evidence. Wondering why you can't beat the house? Because that's the reality of gambling. You only have a small chance in beating the house. Wether you play in online casino or in physical, you'll get the same result. You're going to have more losses.

Quote from: romero121 on June 23, 2019, 03:45:22 PM

We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

You just said "picks" right? So I assumed, you are talking about sportsbetting? So, the house has nothing to do with the result. Your winning and lossing will be based on the team, fighter, player, etc. So, what can an algorithm thing can do? LOL. What's funnier here is, you are wearing a sig of online casino but you are opposing and looks like you aren't believing in provably fair.

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Quote from: DebitMe on June 23, 2019, 10:20:13 PM

There will always be the risks of online casinos and anything goes. That is why it is important to only use reputable licensed casinos. Of course, this isn't 100% perfect and diligence always needs to be done, but using common sense and avoiding shady sites is a good way to ensure you avoid any of cheating by the casino.

If a casino is licensed or not doesnt really matter. Casinos usually dont write the software they use by themself, they buy them from software vendors. A friend of mine works for such a company, there are minor tweaks in place which prevent casinos from losing too much money, eg a part of the software ensures that there arent too many jackpots per month

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There will always be the risks of online casinos and anything goes. That is why it is important to only use reputable licensed casinos. Of course, this isn't 100% perfect and diligence always needs to be done, but using common sense and avoiding shady sites is a good way to ensure you avoid any of cheating by the casino.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

We really are horrible random number generators but I don't think that gambler site owner won't implement algorithm too naively where what you mentioned is true that it can be abused by players who knows that it has a flaw that you can take advantages. I think they will use algorithm but I think it's more aggressive in giving randomly generated number that make the game base on pure luck.

Yaunfitda

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I did observed some games like roulette wherein it looks like the casinos or maybe AI, when they see the pattern of your bets, you won't see success as it used to be. Of course there is almost the edge, but I don't know, see this many times when I'm playing that's why when I had a good run I will simply stop. At least I have won a few and move on the next game.

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Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:49:40 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:34:51 PM

Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:19:12 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

One losing streak of one player can hardly be called evidence, to get real evidence, you need to statistically analyze millions of bets and then calculate if the real house edge is bigger than the claimed house edge. This is because in short term anything can happen, you can lose or win 20 times in a row, sometimes there are bad days for casino when they lose a lot, and so on - what we should be looking at is big data.

Thats how the house defends itself in such instances

For such gambler who do only make few bets then it wont really that enough to prove out something and also

if you do try to make arguments that the site isn't fair then you would need up some solid evidence and about AI or any whatsoever
algorithms we are speaking on here it non a surprising thing actually.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:34:51 PM

Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:19:12 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

One losing streak of one player can hardly be called evidence, to get real evidence, you need to statistically analyze millions of bets and then calculate if the real house edge is bigger than the claimed house edge. This is because in short term anything can happen, you can lose or win 20 times in a row, sometimes there are bad days for casino when they lose a lot, and so on - what we should be looking at is big data.

Thats how the house defends itself in such instances

romero121

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We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

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With a nonce system (which many online casinos use), the results are predetermined and can't be altered without a new server seed.

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Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:19:12 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

One losing streak of one player can hardly be called evidence, to get real evidence, you need to statistically analyze millions of bets and then calculate if the real house edge is bigger than the claimed house edge. This is because in short term anything can happen, you can lose or win 20 times in a row, sometimes there are bad days for casino when they lose a lot, and so on - what we should be looking at is big data.

Woodie

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The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

hatshepsut93

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Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

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