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Topic: [CENSORSHIP] Matthew N. Wright - page 5. (Read 16437 times)

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
August 16, 2013, 04:49:02 PM
@ Badbear,

Regardless of what Theymos is entitled to do or not do, I can tell you that my suspicion has increased, and trust decreased, with regards to Theymos as a result of inconsistent moderation, claims that he is protecting scammers, and his avoidance of this thread.  I bet I'm not the only one.

Inconsistent moderation will be caught and scrutinized by others. If enough people are unhappy about it, it's just going to make your job and Thymos's job a lot more annoying.  It also makes this site a target among those that are inconsistently moderated, even if a ban just means they'll create 10 sock puppet  accounts just to troll you harder.  
I agree with this.  Theymos has the right to do whatever he wants with this forum, however: That doesn't mean he *should*.

He can do it, it just makes me respect him a lot less.
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
August 16, 2013, 10:46:46 AM
It isn't your account, it belongs to the forum/website. You're allowed to use it once you agree to the user agreement you skipped over when you registered your account, you can put a unique name on it, you can make a password to restrict access, but in the end it still belongs to the website. Same applies to say...online game accounts (not necessarily paid before you think of world of warcraft or something, free games are the same), you don't own them either and you can be banned from accessing them at any time.

There are more than "property rights" to consider when it comes to the ownership of forum accounts. Your legal view is very incomplete, even though it is completely in line with the common practice of most community providers.

One thing that most people forget about is the amount of copyrighted content a forum user usually creates. For example, as far as I know, under U.S. law this content may legally become the exclusive property of the forum / forum owners. In most countries in Europe for example, this is practically impossible. Which could make it illegal for the forum provider to delete or modify that content without the consent of the user. It is also practically impossible to request this consent in advance in some kind of EULA before the user actually is able to produce said content.  Also, don't make the mistake that for a U.S. based forum, only U.S. law applies. All in all, complicated stuff, really.
All I'm saying is, don't be too sure about the common practice of forum websites to actually be legal.

And now back on topic:
It's still all about MNW being a troll, which is a fact.
It's about the forum being practically theymos' playground, which is also a fact.
Discuss as we may, all we can do is speak up for MNW, which I personally do, in a very moderate way.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
August 16, 2013, 10:46:44 AM
@ Badbear,

Regardless of what Theymos is entitled to do or not do, I can tell you that my suspicion has increased, and trust decreased, with regards to Theymos as a result of inconsistent moderation, claims that he is protecting scammers, and his avoidance of this thread.  I bet I'm not the only one.

Inconsistent moderation will be caught and scrutinized by others. If enough people are unhappy about it, it's just going to make your job and Thymos's job a lot more annoying.  It also makes this site a target among those that are inconsistently moderated, even if a ban just means they'll create 10 sock puppet  accounts just to troll you harder.  
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
August 16, 2013, 10:43:35 AM
#99
it is not true we can check out but we cant leave as we are not aloud to delete our accounts

It isn't your account, it belongs to the forum/website. You're allowed to use it once you agree to the user agreement you skipped over when you registered your account, you can put a unique name on it, you can make a password to restrict access, but in the end it still belongs to the website. Same applies to say...online game accounts (not necessarily paid before you think of world of warcraft or something, free games are the same), you don't own them either and you can be banned from accessing them at any time.

Again, I'm speaking strictly from a property rights point of view since that's the direction the discussion has taken, with the claims of censorship and violation of free speech. Just trying to get you to see the big picture here, beyond a sole account.

Quote

have you seen the amount of old accounts that are popping back up after all this time the accounts cant be phished cant be brute forced that only leaves to options forum compromised or admin are resetting passwords and using the themselves or selling them

( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )

All I've seen from you is guesses and speculation, but if you have something helpful to share, please share it with the people that need it (not me).

what I know is pointless telling theymos as its about him and his friends

how would it look to everyone if the people running the biggest bitcoin forum were proven to be the biggest scammers / supporting the biggest scammers out there ?




It would look very bad. So why not post it, if it exists? People will see it even if it gets removed. If they banned you on the spot it would prove them corrupt, so it wouldn't matter even if they stopped you.
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
ADT developer
August 16, 2013, 10:39:46 AM
#98
it is not true we can check out but we cant leave as we are not aloud to delete our accounts

It isn't your account, it belongs to the forum/website. You're allowed to use it once you agree to the user agreement you skipped over when you registered your account, you can put a unique name on it, you can make a password to restrict access, but in the end it still belongs to the website. Same applies to say...online game accounts (not necessarily paid before you think of world of warcraft or something, free games are the same), you don't own them either and you can be banned from accessing them at any time.

Again, I'm speaking strictly from a property rights point of view since that's the direction the discussion has taken, with the claims of censorship and violation of free speech. Just trying to get you to see the big picture here, beyond a sole account.

Quote

have you seen the amount of old accounts that are popping back up after all this time the accounts cant be phished cant be brute forced that only leaves to options forum compromised or admin are resetting passwords and using the themselves or selling them

( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )

All I've seen from you is guesses and speculation, but if you have something helpful to share, please share it with the people that need it (not me).

what I know is pointless telling theymos as its about him and his friends

how would it look to everyone if the people running the biggest bitcoin forum were proven to be the biggest scammers / supporting the biggest scammers out there ?


legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
August 16, 2013, 03:14:50 AM
#97
Had a scammer tag for a shitty bet he didn't collect money on? That one? BFL made a bet that they failed to deliver on for a very long time, donating 1000 BTC to charity, then formed their own charity and donated the BTC to? You cant compare the two, Matthew didn't scam shit on that bet, there is a difference between blatantly stealing and making a joke bet you cant afford.

There is a huge difference between the two BFL pays for a lot of forum ads can't ban that Wink I love how theymos has yet to reply in this thread. Obviously he has a personal vendetta against Matthew.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
August 16, 2013, 10:20:18 AM
#97
it is not true we can check out but we cant leave as we are not aloud to delete our accounts

It isn't your account, it belongs to the forum/website. You're allowed to use it once you agree to the user agreement you skipped over when you registered your account, you can put a unique name on it, you can make a password to restrict access, but in the end it still belongs to the website. Same applies to say...online game accounts (not necessarily paid before you think of world of warcraft or something, free games are the same), you don't own them either and you can be banned from accessing them at any time.

Again, I'm speaking strictly from a property rights point of view since that's the direction the discussion has taken, with the claims of censorship and violation of free speech. Just trying to get you to see the big picture here, beyond a sole account.

Quote

have you seen the amount of old accounts that are popping back up after all this time the accounts cant be phished cant be brute forced that only leaves to options forum compromised or admin are resetting passwords and using the themselves or selling them

( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )

All I've seen from you is guesses and speculation, but if you have something helpful to share, please share it with the people that need it (not me).
qwk
donator
Activity: 3542
Merit: 3413
Shitcoin Minimalist
August 16, 2013, 09:42:25 AM
#96
Or maybe it's theymos' forum and he can do what he want with it? Wink

this.

Is it? On the other hand, that discussion would be totally offtopic.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1280
May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage
August 16, 2013, 09:28:52 AM
#95
( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )
Which one?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 1000
Fica Tranquilo
August 15, 2013, 02:41:16 PM
#94
MNW has my vote for unbanning.
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
ADT developer
August 16, 2013, 09:18:10 AM
#94
Do whats best for us? We didn't vote them in based off of their opinion of how the forum should be ran, who other than the people are to say what is best for us? Whats best for us is what WE say.
Trolling isn't that bad, I have a shaky memory, but didn't theymos try to sell off what was it $500,000 worth of shares of a scam business right before they were caught..?

Edit:Edit badmaths: $78k back then, 551k today.
There is no voting, this isn't a democracy. Banning someone from a private website isn't censorship, that's ridiculous and shows you don't truly understand what censorship and freedom of speech mean. It's a privately owned forum, and theymos is exercising his right as property owner/administrator to manage as he sees fit. If you disagree, you are free to leave. You are not free to try and take the property owner's rights away on a whim just because you disagree with something he did. 

Actually I'm just going to stop here and quote DeathandTaxes here, he said it perfectly. Edit: Actually you were a part of this conversation about another troll who was banned, I guess you just like infringing on the rights of others whenever you disagree with them. Nice, you should get a job in government work.  Roll Eyes

Property doesn't only apply to physical property.    You have no freedom of speech as it relates to other citizens and their private property.   No forum can violate your freedom of speech because ...
Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Who can't abridge the freedom of speech?  That's right Congress can't.  Last time I checked the mods on this forum aren't Congress, aren't duly elected or appointed officials of any state.  They aren't even the agents of the state. 

Rights start with ownership.  The forum is OWNED by its owners.  Those owners use admins and mods to (as they see fit) to maximize the value of their property.  Property they own and have every right to control.  There is no difference between kicking a hunter off your land and kicking a person off a forum.  Both involve lawfully controlling one's property.

You don't need a freedom of Speech from other citizens you know why?
1) Other citizens don't have a monopoly on violence.  Other citizens can't under the law use force to silence your speech. 
2) Sure maybe you can't speak on this forum without rules (much like you can't hunt on anyone's private property without permission) but until bitcointalk.org becomes the sole mechanism of speech for the human race you have other options.
 

TL/DR:
I hate "rights" hypocrits.  I bet even now you fail to see that your demands of freedom of speech are a violation of the rights of others ... the rights of property owners to be free in the ownership of what is theirs.

Bolded the important part, that's why banning someone isn't censorship. I don't know how much more simpler it can be made. The only valid point I've seen made is that there are others who should be banned, but that's hardly new. Unbanning Matthew doesn't seem like the best solution to that particular problem.


it is not true we can check out but we cant leave as we are not aloud to delete our accounts

have you seen the amount of old accounts that are popping back up after all this time the accounts cant be phished cant be brute forced that only leaves to options forum compromised or admin are resetting passwords and using the themselves or selling them

( I know of at least 1 user that regally hacks the forum so I am sure there are more )
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
August 16, 2013, 09:08:56 AM
#93
Hey guys check out my new signature. (No I'm not trolling, I really thing we are taking a turn for the worse.)
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1128
August 16, 2013, 09:04:23 AM
#92
Do whats best for us? We didn't vote them in based off of their opinion of how the forum should be ran, who other than the people are to say what is best for us? Whats best for us is what WE say.
Trolling isn't that bad, I have a shaky memory, but didn't theymos try to sell off what was it $500,000 worth of shares of a scam business right before they were caught..?

Edit:Edit badmaths: $78k back then, 551k today.
There is no voting, this isn't a democracy. Banning someone from a private website isn't censorship, that's ridiculous and shows you don't truly understand what censorship and freedom of speech mean. It's a privately owned forum, and theymos is exercising his right as property owner/administrator to manage as he sees fit. If you disagree, you are free to leave. You are not free to try and take the property owner's rights away on a whim just because you disagree with something he did. 

Actually I'm just going to stop here and quote DeathandTaxes here, he said it perfectly. Edit: Actually you were a part of this conversation about another troll who was banned, I guess you just like infringing on the rights of others whenever you disagree with them. Nice, you should get a job in government work.  Roll Eyes

Property doesn't only apply to physical property.    You have no freedom of speech as it relates to other citizens and their private property.   No forum can violate your freedom of speech because ...
Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Who can't abridge the freedom of speech?  That's right Congress can't.  Last time I checked the mods on this forum aren't Congress, aren't duly elected or appointed officials of any state.  They aren't even the agents of the state. 

Rights start with ownership.  The forum is OWNED by its owners.  Those owners use admins and mods to (as they see fit) to maximize the value of their property.  Property they own and have every right to control.  There is no difference between kicking a hunter off your land and kicking a person off a forum.  Both involve lawfully controlling one's property.

You don't need a freedom of Speech from other citizens you know why?
1) Other citizens don't have a monopoly on violence.  Other citizens can't under the law use force to silence your speech. 
2) Sure maybe you can't speak on this forum without rules (much like you can't hunt on anyone's private property without permission) but until bitcointalk.org becomes the sole mechanism of speech for the human race you have other options.
 

TL/DR:
I hate "rights" hypocrits.  I bet even now you fail to see that your demands of freedom of speech are a violation of the rights of others ... the rights of property owners to be free in the ownership of what is theirs.

Bolded the important part, that's why banning someone isn't censorship. I don't know how much more simpler it can be made. The only valid point I've seen made is that there are others who should be banned, but that's hardly new. Unbanning Matthew doesn't seem like the best solution to that particular problem.
legendary
Activity: 1310
Merit: 1000
August 16, 2013, 05:01:58 AM
#91

Try to understand they are only trying to do what's best for us, dependless on their own relations..
Or maybe it's theymos' forum and he can do what he want with it? Wink

Maybe MNW trolled a bit too much finally?

But there certainly are more people that should get banned, too...

Do whats best for us? We didn't vote them in based off of their opinion of how the forum should be ran, who other than the people are to say what is best for us? Whats best for us is what WE say.
Trolling isn't that bad, I have a shaky memory, but didn't theymos try to sell off what was it $500,000 worth of shares of a scam business right before they were caught..?

Edit:Edit badmaths: $78k back then, 551k today.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1000
August 16, 2013, 04:37:47 AM
#90
Or maybe it's theymos' forum and he can do what he want with it? Wink

this.

/thread
legendary
Activity: 1511
Merit: 1072
quack
August 16, 2013, 04:24:10 AM
#89
I wonder how Matthew would feel of he was reading this now.

He's far too self centered to not be reading it daily.

And I'm sure he's laughing his ass off that you guys still buy his bullshit after all he's done.  Y'all getting trolled and don't even know it. Amazes me how dumb smart people can be when you press the right buttons.

Not everyone here is for the person, but for the cause. Banning for trolling is censorship, and against what the community is. How about you give a trolling tag, and ban scammers. There is a reason there is an ignore button, who gives a shit what he says just click ignore.

Edit: I mean come on
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/narayan-attempted-code-injection-274749
The guy even tried to fuck the entire forum via the admin, no ban, or scammer tag. what the hell is wrong with that picture?

This - if MNW is banned, others are banned.

Try to understand they are only trying to do what's best for us, dependless on their own relations..
Or maybe it's theymos' forum and he can do what he want with it? Wink

Maybe MNW trolled a bit too much finally?

But there certainly are more people that should get banned, too...
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 502
Doesn't use these forums that often.
August 16, 2013, 04:19:24 AM
#88
I wonder how Matthew would feel of he was reading this now.

He's far too self centered to not be reading it daily.

And I'm sure he's laughing his ass off that you guys still buy his bullshit after all he's done.  Y'all getting trolled and don't even know it. Amazes me how dumb smart people can be when you press the right buttons.

Not everyone here is for the person, but for the cause. Banning for trolling is censorship, and against what the community is. How about you give a trolling tag, and ban scammers. There is a reason there is an ignore button, who gives a shit what he says just click ignore.

Edit: I mean come on
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/narayan-attempted-code-injection-274749
The guy even tried to fuck the entire forum via the admin, no ban, or scammer tag. what the hell is wrong with that picture?

This - if MNW is banned, others are banned.
legendary
Activity: 1310
Merit: 1000
August 16, 2013, 04:12:59 AM
#87
I wonder how Matthew would feel of he was reading this now.

He's far too self centered to not be reading it daily.

And I'm sure he's laughing his ass off that you guys still buy his bullshit after all he's done.  Y'all getting trolled and don't even know it. Amazes me how dumb smart people can be when you press the right buttons.

Not everyone here is for the person, but for the cause. Banning for trolling is censorship, and against what the community is. How about you give a trolling tag, and ban scammers. There is a reason there is an ignore button, who gives a shit what he says just click ignore.

Edit: I mean come on
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/narayan-attempted-code-injection-274749
Here's an ad that was sent to me:

Sent to the address!

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Code:
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