Topic: China - everything is fine! But everything is bad ... - page 6. (Read 1137 times)

No one really diminishes China's merit in the modern world. They must be given their due - from an agrarian third world country, they have become one of the world leaders in several decades, and in many areas. From a communist poor country, China became a country where a huge number of millionaires and simply rich people appeared, and people were given those freedoms that, for example, could never have appeared in the USSR ... But as the proverb says "Very good, that's also bad." Now the Chinese Communist Party has realized that they have spoiled the population with freedoms a little, and potentially, a class may arise in China that will not respect the "traditions" of the Communist Party, will be independent entrepreneurs with significant financial influence, and in general - the state is losing control over some areas of the economy. plus money goes to ordinary people and not to political elites, as it has been for centuries. This is what they are afraid of, and they begin to "change" the situation until it is too late for them.

It is really ridiculous to see that many people still judge the present China based on the backward history of the old China. The people of their own country worry about being shot and women being raped every day, but now they are worried that the Chinese will eat too much and live too happily. Guys, China is no longer the China you imagined. If you have travel expenses, go to China. China will let you sit up and take notice.

Go out and see the reality of China with your own eyes, instead of hearing hearsay on the Internet.

^^^ This may be an underestimate. Because the PlusToken scam alone caused a loss of around $4 billion in China (with more losses reported from other countries such as Vietnam and Taiwan), as a lot of pensioners and other users invested in that scam project. So the losses from that project alone is more than the amount mentioned here. But the government response has been disproportionate, and they have been banning all cryptocurrency activity inside China (rather than just targeting the scammers).

Currently some Chinese investors have fallen as victims of cryptocurrency project scams, since more than $ 2200M have gone directly to addresses from scammers, I do not know if it is due to low research or extreme investor confidence, they have been presented many cases that have been reported:


Source: https://zycrypto.com/chinese-investors-lose-over-2-billion-to-cryptocurrency-scams/

It is worrying to see these figures of scams in China, although China has been very jealous in terms of cryptocurrencies, they are front-line defenders of their stablecoin, perhaps these scams can trigger the government to take drastic measures against cryptocurrencies.

Why is it China is good at stealing tech?

But not good at inventing tech.


I am a 64 year old white guy. Born in New York city.
I have always heard.

That the chinese are great at copies but not great at original thought.

Personally I would like to see some one say the Chinese made many great inventions.

I am pretty sure they invented gunpowder . That is a solid invention.

interesting to discuss, but if we look at the Chinese system for now, even though the people accept a lot of freedom, and begin to adopt Western freedoms, on the other hand they also apply rules that oblige their citizens to obey them.
regardless of fear or belief in the government at this time I don't think the Chinese people will be able to fight against their orders, and one way to be safe is to follow the flow of the government and even if it's called brainwashing or whatever but this can influence and benefit the Chinese government as well.

The Chinese people don't care enough for basic liberties because they're complacent and okay with the current existing affairs. One would think there'd be a slight amount of outrage when millions of muslims are struck of their human rights, many being placed in modern day "concentration camps" to have their heads shaved and forcibly sterilized CCP is the world's biggest threat in the 21st century, and if you wait on the chinese people to revolt against their own government, you're going to be waiting for a long time.

Here a nuance was added - the Communist Party of China, having given some freedom for entrepreneurship, and due to its advantageous position to become a manufacturer of everything for everyone, received a very high-quality result. BUT. This also resulted in the growth of "free-thinking", "uncontrolled business", and the emergence of really large private companies that can create noticeable problems for the very same Communist Party of China. And now they have a problem - to further develop the economy with the hands of "free people", or to start "tightening the screws", to transfer everything under state control, to reduce the number of "free independent heads". Well, plus also external factors such as the status of "the birthplace of coronavirus" which is clearly negative in general, and the "Asian Tiger" - which promises a fight in the world market, with not very high positive outcomes

Let me disagree here. There were problems, but others:
1. The real drop in budget revenues due to the fall in oil prices
2. Absolutely unbalanced, manually controlled economy, the efficiency of which tends to zero.
3. Total impoverishment of the population, falling living standards.
4. Internal discord between the "old communists" and almost organized crime represented by the security forces.

Regarding internal migration to the USSR (this is about the migration of Tajiks and Uzbeks to the European part of the USSR). So, in short, migration was an extremely difficult process. To leave the settlement where you were assigned. In the USSR, there was such a concept of "registration" - these are the binding of a citizen to a certain place of residence, you cannot change it yourself, only when you change jobs, get married. In the USSR, there was no concept of free movement. To make it clear - villagers, peasants, in general, until the mid-1970s did not have passports, which means they did not have the right to go anywhere until such an action was approved for them, and it was extremely rare, because everyone tried to "run away" from the village - there people were not even paid for their work with money - most of them were given out with grain, potatoes, etc. agricultural crops and only a minimal part - with real money ... This is the reality of the USSR by 1980 ...

Certainly, a good article. The bottom of it can be described in a couple of sentences: Either you have free market and you benefit from it or you have a controlled economy and you do not benefit from individual entrepreneurship. Not that fully free markets do not come with its own set of problems. For an authoritarian regime, there is an obvious catch: wealthy people have tremendous influence and entrepreneurs  do things first and then ask permission or apologize. That is incompatible with the CCP retaining the degree of social control that is required to control power.

The choice is clear: have a poorer China, yet still strong, with a limited ability to create and invent outside the official guidelines thus with a handicap imbedded into their system. Yet that is going to be the choice, because the first rule of politics is "gain power", the second one is "remain in power" and the third one is "in case of doubt, read rules 1 and 2"

You're teaching them another way to be controlled which is religion. I like to borrow what Dennis Diderot said, "Man will never truly be free until the last king is strangled by the entrails of the last priest." Also, given the human nature, I don't think we will soon let go of dictatorship, we love power and it corrupts the good. China is a cage and people don't know it because they're blinded by the fact that they're bombarded by propaganda and that they are being lied to.

I disagree with that.China has very good intelligence and awesome hackers.The Chinese are very good at stealing technology from the west,so I don't think that it would be difficult for China to follow the achievements of the Western world.
China has accumulated lots of capital and it will accumulate even more in the future.A part of this capital might run away from China,but there's still lot's of it.
The CCP will keep it's power and authority in the future decades.I'm not a fan of the Chinese Communist Party,but we can't deny the fact that China turned from a third world country into a global economic powerhouse for about 30 years.

In your opinion, all people who speak good things about China are CCPs?


All posts saying that China is good are called "Chinese puppets"?This is in the forum, my defense for China will be under the responsibility of people like you.This is the so-called "thinking and living as a free person".


Everyone has a say, and everyone decides the direction together? No, there will never be a consensus, there will always be stupid people who cast their stupid votes.

So my dear, “free-thinking puppet”, can you still live under your caste system??

People can still be very much free without going through the route the modern world is going through. Your law has to based on Love for GOD (the CREATOR of this World) and people, and you can't really do this on your own... You need to be released from a prison/matrix and have the Good Spirit guide you.  The Free people should lead those still in prison (not the other way around or blind leading blind) until everyone is eventually free. Besides, a society can achieve this without being authoritarian or a dictatorship

It's to be expected, China wants to look good in the international stage plus they're known to suppress information that is detrimental to their images and it's unlikely they will change their ways, remember the whistleblowers imprisoned during the start of the pandemic before it was even a pandemic, they detained them because they want to suppress information.

Although the translation from another language is imperfect, the original article does a very good analysis of the situation. This could very well be a subject in itself. The fact that the article is by a Russian publication means that they must know what they are talking about. Some very good points here. It starts with speculating about the future of Chinese model to which we already have a reply from a Chinese well-wisher or probably just one of those CCP handles.

My dear Chinese puppet, when people in the rest of the world talk about "thinking and living as a free person", it is not about getting education or some other facility from a government. It is simply about having the freedom to express yourself as a human being. All humans are different. Nobody is perfect. In a free society, all of those voices are allowed space and expression and collectively, they decide on a path forward. Its definitely not perfect but that does not mean that one body making decisions for everybody while nobody is allowed to criticise the said hallowed body is not the way of free people.

You definitely find it hard to understand as is evident from another one of your stupid arguments.

Just this acceptance that material prosperity can somehow make up for freedom of choice and expression is the problem with your whole argument.

Moving on from this obvious CCP sockpuppet, the article makes some very interesting points.






These points very effectively explain the recent actions of CCP against a host of its own entrepreneurs. More importantly, i think it also provides an interesting explanation to the CCPs insistence of use of a CBDC while acting against Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the very essence of power to people and open-ness. You can never fully suppress or control it. The CCP, shrewd as always, understands that the world is moving to digital currencies and is probably just pre-empting for this scenario of ending up as compartmentalized.

First of all, the Chinese were not like this at the beginning. If we read the history of China carefully, we will clearly see that the ancient Chinese and later Chinese do not seem to be the same species. There is a big gap between them, which makes me very different. It shocked me.
The foundation of Chinese morality is loyalty and filial piety. Every change of dynasty is humiliating. Most people will choose to live in humiliation. For most Chinese people, this is a personal frustration and self-denial.
In this case, if you choose to "surrender", the Chinese people's self-esteem and self-confidence are repeatedly destroyed, and they make compromises in the face of any power.

In fact, it is related to traditional Chinese culture. It turns out that the Confucian culture has caused people to come into contact with this kind of education from an early age. This kind of Chinese education is forbearance. The public revolt against the Qing Dynasty talked about one for gaining benefits, while the other felt that it had nothing to do with him and regarded himself as the masses. There is no justice or evil, only eternal benefits.
Times are slowly changing, and the conditions of the Chinese people are also changing. When they face rights, they usually forbear, fear in their hearts. The root of China's inferiority complex, especially in the earliest dynasties, is more obvious.

I don't know if this could be related to Jack Ma's sudden disappearance. Being the richest man in China isn't even a guarantee that you have your freedom. I even saw this article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwang/2021/01/07/disappearing-billionaires-jack-ma-and-other-chinese-moguls-who-have-mysteriously-dropped-off-the-radar/?sh=55488deb2187) where most of their Billionaires are disappearing without a trace and that includes the great Jack Ma himself.

First of all, I want to talk about "who want to think and live as a free person". We accuse China of not being free, but on the other hand, China implements 9-year compulsory education. So that everyone, whether you are poor or rich, must complete 9 years of basic learning.

This is the knowledge that gives people the ability to think normally. (Don't discuss with me that education is a kind of thought control) Chinese mathematics, physics, chemistry and other disciplines that require logical thinking are very good at all.

“development” and “preserving their places and subordinating those who want to think and live as a free person”.These two points are not in conflict. China's development needs these people with progressive ideas. China needs to train these people more

“suffering”？If it makes my life better and better, I would rather “suffer”.Not unemployed at home.