Topic: Christianity is Poison - page 52. (Read 52639 times)

OK, guess it's time to pitch in:

Source? I do agree that Catholic church has done quite a few horrible things during the Middle Ages, however your claim seems rather bold with no evidence to back it up.

You do understand that quite a few scientists were or are Christians - Blaise Pascal (Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem (math)) and Isaac Newton (Physicist, discoverer of gravity) to name a few. Also, some of these scientists (namely Theodosius Dobzhansky) criticized creationsim and argued that science and faith does not conflict (which is a stance I can firmly stand behind).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
I'd have to disagree. Although the Catholic church did a lot of heinous things during the Dark Ages, which did harm the spread of knowledge, I think the much bigger reason was the fall of the Roman Empire:

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_%28historiography%29

The main issue in terms of knowledge is the fact that after the fall of the Roman empire, quite a lot of research and literature was lost, setting back science rather far back. The first answer by Humphrey Clarke, MA in Modern History - University of St Andrews in this: https://www.quora.com/Did-Christianity-cause-the-Dark-Ages  gives quite an interesting analysis. I suggest reading through as it goes through several possible arguments such as the Catholic church not accepting science.

The conclusion is rather relevant to the discussion as well:


I'd say that your logical deduction isn't as logical as you'd think. Religion might've been created by humans in the primitive times to act as a placeholder for science, but as times progressed, these religions morphed and changed to analyze something either non-material such as morality or above the materialistic universal order (that being governed by natural laws such as gravity, the existence of light and various parameters that it follows when interacting with materials, the fact that materials are comprised of molecules, which are made up of atoms, which are made up of protons, neutrons and electrons, which are made up of..., etc.), which science tries to figure out. If you were to ignore the developments that took throughout history (developments that science has gone through too as various scientific theories previously made were debunked and replaced by new, more accurate ones) and attribute all that to a specific demographic, I'd say that it isn't exactly accurate representation of history.

In fact, I'd say the the current definition of religion would be the search for who created the system we are living in. I think the best way to describe it would be comparing it to computer software: imagine an extremely complex computer simulation, with it's rules and parameters, running constantly with the objects (with a crap ton of variables, methods and other OOP features implemented) inside acting independently (but predictably due the fact that author of the program knows what code he wrote and how it performs) based on their variables and the surrounding objects. The self-aware objects inside decide analyze the system and due to being withing that system and unable to detect anything outside it, deducted that since they can't detect anything within the system that there is no creator outside it. Seems familiar?


I do agree that Atheists do have morals, however those morals were impacted, be it by indirect historical influence or (doesn't seem like in this case) directly by providing a base, by the "dusty old book" you are talking about.

In science, this is quite important but if you were to only base everything on fact outside science, philosophy, art and possibly certain scientific advances which first were devised as hypotheses (unproven speculations only later to be debunked for the time being or confirmed) would probably not exist.

There's a few theological speculations on why, one of them being that it is a symbol of the sacrifice of Christ: https://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/why-did-god-tell-abraham-kill-his-son-isaac. If I were asked that, I'd probably refuse, since in this day and age, anything can be staged by someone with enough cash.

  :D Thanks mate you made my day . If you don't mind  I'll save this and going to re-read during long boring winter evenings .

That one million years of atheism was an especially excellent joke. You might or might not aware of that but one million years ago mankind was fighting against the hyenas for the leftovers from the lions dinner, and most likely worshipped almost anything what they didn't understood. So they were quite far from atheism. Actually apart from a very few early birds, atheism is a quite new invention.

If atheists are so fine and cool guys why the most prolific atheists (aka commies) brought so much death and destruction while promoting such glorious ideas?

Sorry mate, but your hatred and bigotry towards religion together with your history falsification attempts getting more and more ridiculous. Chill out and stick to science and proven facts .

Do you really want to compare the 2000 year history of christianity murdering half the world with the 1,000,000 year history of atheists making advances in science, medicine, philosophy, morality, etc, etc, etc?!?  Religion simply cannot compare to the contributions of science and medicine... which are not religion... science and medicine are definitely anti-religious... atheist stuff... you wouldn't understand...




I'm sorry you don't understand history... or much of anything...

The only reason christianity is civil today is because of atheist influences... without atheists, slavery would still be legal!... Homosexuals would be murdered openly, and it would be legal to do so!  It would also be legal to murder atheists! (The bible commands you to do all these things in the same book where the 10-commandments are written)

The Dark ages had a single cause... Christianity... Christians attacked anything that was non-christian for 300 years!  Don't pretend it didn't happen!

This was also not an isolated event, simply a peak in christian murdering... Do not infer that because the dark ages lasted 300 years, that the other 1700 years of christianity were peace and love... the Salem Witch Trials were in the 17th century... plenty of christian murder and pillaging throughout the entire 2000 year history...  Nearly identical to Islam... no difference at all (not surprising since Muslims stole the Christian bible exactly like Christians stole the Hebrew bible... the two religions are nearly identical in every way)




Atheists invented morals and values... don't be silly...

You already admitted that christians did not invent "christian values"... it's only a small step to realizing that they came from either another religion, or non-religion (all religions came from non-religion, so obviously, atheists invented morals)


You are correct in that atheists don't have a written moral code, like the 10 commandments, but you are incorrect that we don't have values... Atheists are the only ones who took the time to think about morals on their own... we decided right from wrong based on the impact on society, not from some dusty old book...

Atheists believe in facts and evidence over feelings... just because a story "feels good", does not make it true... you need facts and evidence... that is what atheists believe in... reality... facts... evidence... not unsupported fairy tales


If some "God" told me to murder my child... I'd tell that asshole to FUCK OFF!... What would you do?  Murder your son?

OK. Now I don't know whether you're trolling or is it the best you could come up with.

First of all, well done ignoring the rest of my post and my general point. I used 15 century peasant as an example of how simple rules of monotheist religion work best in keeping the masses in (self) control.

What you're trying to do is to draw equal mark between the Christianity as whole (with its ~2000 years history) and relatively short period of history when Catholic church was doing some ugly things (ignoring all the good ones).

Should I do the same and equate entire atheism with Bolshevik/communistic regimes (with atheism as mandatory doctrine) which are responsible for greatest number of deaths (adjusted for equal periods) than any other group in the history of mankind?



Pure bullshit.


Respect for human life, forgiveness for crimes/sins (rather than slaughtering the sinner possibly together with his close family), loving/respecting other people (even your enemies), fidelity of marriage/monogamy, turning the other cheek, equality of people.

Sure, it's not all exclusive to Christianity nor not necessarily 'invented' by it, but the fact is the Europe become most advanced civilisation while being heavily influenced by Christian religion.

Morality and knowledge of what is right and wrong is not something you're born with. Can you not see the differences between Christian countries and i.e. Muslim countries? Which of the latter would allow you to abandon islam and openly promote atheism? Which of the existing religions is the closest to the western standards?

You seem to think that Europe would do better without Christianity? That it was not necessary in shaping currently accepted moral standards? How did the other, non Christian, parts of the world performed? Did we not see shit like slavery, cannibalism, constant tribal wars, ritual killings, honorary killings, acceptable rapes, stoning, eating hearts of your enemies (say hello to moderate Syrian rebels), genital mutilation, or many other shit (see this one). Was what the literacy rate before evil Christians came along? What about discoveries, inventions and other contributions to the world?

Were the Africa/Americas exploring galaxies without Christianity holding their backs? Were they more advanced compared to Europe? Not so much.

Feel free to name few 'atheist' values, meaning currently accepted ones that were common among all the parts of the world. Don't kill/steal are not one of them. Pro-tip: you can't.

Having many members doesn't mean you're doing something right.

For example, language is both something you're born with or something you can choose to learn later on, like a religion. More people speak Mandarin than English - does that mean Mandarin speakers are are better than the followers of other languages? No, it's an accident of history and population.

You'd do better to ask which the fastest growing religion is --  currently Islam.

Just to be factual. The dark ages was a long lasting fallout of the fall of Rome and the last phases of the great migrations. When things started to get strait we've got the black death and the mini ice age the Ottoman invasions (fall of Byzantine) and Europe plunged back to darkness again. During the whole period the church was the only organization what kept the remnants of science and moral values alive and safe. The renaissance was based on this salvaged knowledge and later these principles formed the foundations of the age of enlightenment as well. Of course it came for a price, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Also, don't forget that we are talking about everyday people with all the mistakes of the everyday people.

Atheist believers to make others into their community involve in unrealistic beliefs. If Christianity seems to be a poison why such a huge population is the followers of Christianity than other religions.

As I'm sure I stated previously, the Western world was definitely NOT built on christian values...  Name a "christian value" that the western world was build upon... name anything besides don't kill/steal, which are clearly not invented by christians


The problems of the 15th century were a direct result of the dark ages... a curse Christianity inflicted upon Europe... 300 years of murder, torture, rape, book burnings, etc... it was a madhouse... Christians murdered and destroyed half of Europe!

The world would have been much better off without the Inquisition, Burning witches alive, Crusades, et al

The guidelines you reference where altered by the governing powers of the day usually the church to control people. They really are not to benefit humans but to push the agenda of the current time. They did not want people killing themselves in mass due to hard living during famines. That is why hell is such a scary place created to deter people from pulling the plug. You can pretty much point to any religious guideline and it can be countered with a historical point where people where needed to be controlled.
You have a pope that preaches still in the same manner from up high and does not walk what he preaches. Wash a few prisoners feet and active on twitter does not make you cutting edge. Its a desperate attempt to stay relevant in a technological time where people do not give a shit anymore if the church puts out a creed.

You were saying that religion was a moral compass for 15th century peasants. If I misunderstood what you meant I apologise.

There's a BIG difference between spirituality/connection/belief, and what atheists think Christianity is.

You're covering a dog with a pig mask, and calling it something it isn't. I think the memes you posted are more relevant to islam, not Christianity. For example, Jesus doesn't care if we pray all the time, that doesn't make us closer with him. That's an islamic idea. Prayer isn't to change Jesus' decisions to get what we want either.

It's not a poison. The moment you snap and realize all the puzzle pieces fit, rather than trying to jam things in and say it's poison, you'll understand it far better. Why does the Bible "restrict" or "recommend" you to not have sex outside of marriage? Why does it oppose doing what you want (drinking, smoking, drugs). Because all these things ruin our lives, and degrade and spoil them. There's a reason for everything. It's not a lifestyle, it's how humans were meant to be, people who take the route of living their own lives will only have to wait to see what is after.

It's a poison if you believe fully that the things of this earth and life is the best it gets. Imagine America without greed, drugs, and things that degrade us. It's no doubt that Christianity advises you to live life the proper way. I guess it's all perspective, some see the worms-eye view, others birds-eye. If you want to look at it like a joke and pretend like it is all "fake" and made-up, let it be so. What is love if you are forced to love?


(this post is my opinion, feel free to discuss any point)

Loaded statement,if you are not a atheist how could you possibly know how a atheist thinks?
If you mean little respect for religion then you are correct for most of those you classify as atheist.
But this is a label and some people do not buy into the need to put every one in a little cupboard for labeling.

Have read a bit of the Koran,dabbled in Buddhism and NLP. Its not for me and that should be excepted by people that have chosen to believe.
Why rock the boat,unless you do not believe yourself!

What does it have to do with the point I was making? Wasn't really talking about quality of peasant life at all.

But let me take the bait. What was the dominating, most common religion/set of beliefs during renaissance? Were people less religious? Was Christianity put aside and replaced? Or maybe it has been changing/evolving just like anything else?

Interestingly, the state of the 15th century peasant was a direct result of religion and was not improved by the church. Most improvements began around the time of the renaissance (not exactly known for espousing christian virtues, eh?).

The cultural captivity of Christianity – the poison of Sylvester’s dream –continues to shape American Christians (and Christians in many other countries). We cannot avoid being shaped by the culture in which we grow up and live. But we can be more or less conscious of the way we have been shaped by our time and place, and more or less conscious of how Christianity’s vision of the way things should be may be quite different.

You do realise that all the Western world was built on Christian values, not the ones you cherry picked from old testament, but rather on the 10 commitments (even if they've been altered).

You don't see how humanity have benefited from religion? Then you sir, are a moron.
How would you go around explaining say 15th century unwashed, illetarate masses what is good and what is bad? The fear of the law enforcement was virtually non-existant, you could commit shitloads of undetected crime. So go on, tell me how would you explain to some average dumb peasant that stealing/raping/killing (when no one sees you) is bad. The belief in magic sky fairy did and still does an amazing job.

How do you imagine Battle of Vienna (Christians defending Europe from muslim imvasion) would look like if every European valued their own life the most and didn't believe in afterlife reward? Who would be willing to die for higher cause?

So yes, very likely thanks to those 'Christian nutters' who protected their countries and continent from 'muslim nutters' you're now allowed to be an atheist and bitch about Christianity. And funny part, they still fucking love you (at least officially).

And you honestly have never heard of any alcoholic, drug addict, criminal, or other degenerate who turned their lives around because they 'found Jesus'? Acknowledging and accepting the higher power can have a very strong positive effect (even if it's a fairytale).

And from scientific point of view, is it or is it not possible, considering infinite time in the universe, that some sort of force (that could fit definition of God) has emerged at some point?

"I have been spoiled by Christianity.To understand how this happened, I need to first explain something else about my character; namely, my strong sense of determination. One of my earliest memories is of me escaping from my crib in the middle of the night – I remember it vividly enough; first I threw one leg over the side, so that my body was halfway in the crib and halfway on the other side (my body was resting on the elevated sides). What I best recall is that this was very painful, but I decided to go on regardless – I put myself through that pain knowing I would be rewarded for my efforts afterwards with freedom. Another example: I was not the strongest boy at my high school, and one time during sport our class was told to do 200 push-ups for playing up – though I was possibly the weakest person in the room (physically), I was the only one there who actually managed to do all 200 push-ups, just so I could prove I could do it, just because I refused to be defeated. This picture of overcoming, of endurance, essentially sums up a major dimension of my character – the satisfaction of standing through pain, willing myself to the end, and finally achieving my goal.

Well, this is all good and well when applied in the right way, but I realise now that, for around the past 15 years of my life, this uncompromising zeal was perverted against me: I was indoctrinated into the Catholic Church, and I was determined to live as a Catholic to the letter.

Since as long as I can remember, I would refrain from using the word “God” as an exclamation (I considered it blasphemous), I would never praise anything or anyone without consciously affirming in my mind that God was greater still, I was altruistic to the point of masochism, I regarded anything sexual or even mildly hedonistic to be downright disgusting (I recently discovered an old diary of mine where I basically use the words “Sexual” and “immoral” interchangeably), and I would pray to God every night – the Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary and the Creed, before going through a list of things I was grateful for and a list of things I was sorry for, and if I didn't do it sincerely I'd do the whole thing again.

I really did believe in the concept of 100%, I was an absolutist – every slip was a catastrophe, the smallest inconsistencies were thundering dissonances (I still hate inconsistency, as it happens, though I don't think this is such a bad thing). Ironically, it was this very drive towards God which led me to atheism (since God is truth, after all), but I realise now that my determination to deny my senses, my natural urges, my insistence on regarding anything selfish or pleasurable with contempt, my impossible standards of morality, placed a great distance between me and ordinary people. And I know know why I find it so difficult to mingle with others, naturally and healthily – I've held this very mingling, and the free sentimentality required for it, in cold disdain for most of my life.

I have no confidence in social situations or personal interactions with people now – my social development has been severely retarded, and I fear the damage may be irreversible. When I speak to people, I don't rely on personal charm or confidence, I rather take refuge in cold logic – I am able to gain an advantage over people by subjecting them to my own rigid standards of rationality, but you can't win affection with or build relationships upon cold logic.

Yes! Why are reason, art and strength such important things to me? Because they're all I have left!

I hate Christianity, I hate it! Don't anyone dare tell me that I don't understand “true” Christianity – I understand it better than anyone, I followed it to its logical conclusion: Atheism. Unfortunately, I was terribly wounded in the process.

No, it's too horrible to imagine; I botched my only life under the presupposition that I would have another – and with uncompromising zeal too!

Now that I realise this, the true nature of my situation, I don't think there is any way I can really overcome my social isolation, so that I think I will have to do what I thought to be the unthinkable – I will have to accept isolation as a part of my life. I almost sympathise with the Duke of Gloucester's exclamation:

    And therefore, — since I cannot prove a lover,
    To entertain these fair well-spoken days, —
    I am determined to prove a villain,
    And hate the idle pleasures of these days.


But I deny this base instinct for petty revenge, and love life all the same. However, I will say this; – to everyone who love themselves, who feel and indulge their urges, who love and create and are filled with song, lust, benevolence, drunkenness and every other honest and healthy manifestation of vitality: I am your friend. But to all those who hate life, whose mission is to destroy life and pervert reality back onto itself, to all peddlers of nothingness, to all active Christians, to Christianity itself: I am calamity. "

God has no need or intent to ask that.

He already gave HIS own SON Jesus Christ, 2000 years ago to die on the cross, that in Him you and everyone that BELIEVE, may have life.
In Christ death has no power over you and you also have ability to overcome all fear.

There is no power in atheism, there is no life in atheism. There is only fear and death.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

I did not ask about Abraham, I asked about you... If God asked YOU to kill YOUR son... would YOU do it?

It's a question about morality... and a trick question... there is no correct answer...

If you would not kill your son, then you don't really believe God is moral in telling you to kill your son...

If you would kill your son, you are immoral and so is your God...