Christianity is Poison - page 48. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BADecker

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Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 07:08:47 PM

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 07:00:20 PM

Quote

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

My defense in said post is that the bible regulates the situation back then (when slavery was common), however expressed no support of the act of enslavement.

Quote

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

That's Old Testament. When referring to the Christian bible, the New Testament is implied. The Old Testament was meant for the time before the coming of Christ (which by those practicing Judaism is THE bible since they don't consider Jesus as the son of God and are still waiting for one (the reason for 2 religions - Christianity and Judaism - instead of one)). I already linked it in this post but here's a rather brief explanation in regards to the Old Testament: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14336544

That's the dumbest argument christians have ever made...

This whole notion of the New Testament overwriting the Old Testament is complete horseshit nonsense that is not supported anywhere in the bible or dogma of christianity

You cannot possibly say you believe the creation story, flood, exodus, and 10-commandments are 100% true and accurate, but the other 603 commandments in the Old Testament don't count... that's bullshit cherry-picking to the extreme

Besides, Jesus himself said, "Not a jot or tittle of the Law will change until I return" (speaking of Mosaic law, the Old Testament laws!)

Quote from: Matthew 5:18-19

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 22:34-40:

Quote

34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.

35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Notice the part, "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Essentially what Jesus was saying with this part is that there is no obedience of the Law without love of God and love of your neighbor. The jots and tittles are held in place by love.

Cool

Kartikay

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I am not a Christian but I believe in God. In fact , all the religions do. Purpose of religion is to stop people from doing misdeeds but some people in past (who call themselves as preacher) have manipulated religions and has made it ugly.

Goms

sr. member

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Quote from: Jstalk on March 26, 2016, 01:06:01 AM

OK...
I don`t believe in the divine nature of Jesus too...
Who or what created the universe???

We all know that it is not possible for a perfect universe to come out of an accidental mishap, even scientists are starting to agree that indeed there is an intelligence behind creation. The theory of evolution is losing steam, someone intelligent created you, so the question is who do you think that is?

organofcorti

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: aardvark15 on March 31, 2016, 08:43:57 PM

Religions including Christianity can be used for good and many time it is. Unfortunately there are many that use religion for evil. In the case of Christianity, those that use the Bible to hurt others or judge others are probably not true Christians.

The problem is that they think they are "true Christians", and present themselves as such.

aardvark15

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Religions including Christianity can be used for good and many time it is. Unfortunately there are many that use religion for evil. In the case of Christianity, those that use the Bible to hurt others or judge others are probably not true Christians.

CoinCube

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Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 06:33:05 PM

Are you still here?

Didn't you say that you were leaving?

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

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In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 07:08:47 PM

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 07:00:20 PM

Quote

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

My defense in said post is that the bible regulates the situation back then (when slavery was common), however expressed no support of the act of enslavement.

Quote

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

That's Old Testament. When referring to the Christian bible, the New Testament is implied. The Old Testament was meant for the time before the coming of Christ (which by those practicing Judaism is THE bible since they don't consider Jesus as the son of God and are still waiting for one (the reason for 2 religions - Christianity and Judaism - instead of one)). I already linked it in this post but here's a rather brief explanation in regards to the Old Testament: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14336544

That's the dumbest argument christians have ever made...

This whole notion of the New Testament overwriting the Old Testament is complete horseshit nonsense that is not supported anywhere in the bible or dogma of christianity

You cannot possibly say you believe the creation story, flood, exodus, and 10-commandments are 100% true and accurate, but the other 603 commandments in the Old Testament don't count... that's bullshit cherry-picking to the extreme

Besides, Jesus himself said, "Not a jot or tittle of the Law will change until I return" (speaking of Mosaic law, the Old Testament laws!)

Quote from: Matthew 5:18-19

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Quote

That's the dumbest argument christians have ever made...

This whole notion of the New Testament overwriting the Old Testament is complete horseshit nonsense that is not supported anywhere in the bible or dogma of christianity

I'd have to disagree:

Quote

Christianity is an Abrahamic monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as presented in the New Testament. <...> Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God and the savior of humanity whose coming as Christ or the Messiah was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

Quote

You cannot possibly say you believe the creation story, flood, exodus

As metaphors for creation of the universal system (governed by the laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc.) and a conscious species within said system, the downfall due to conscious species' inability to control itself and then the humanity's search for purpose.

Quote

and 10-commandments are 100% true and accurate

I never claimed that. I believe that part of it was either lost as history progressed (there isn't an original copy in existence, just a bunch of early copies) or lost in translation as it went through numerous people with different cultural backgrounds.

Quote

but the other 603 commandments in the Old Testament don't count... that's bullshit cherry-picking to the extreme

The general consensus seems that it is not to be used for moral purposes , but more as a "prophecy" that was already fullfilled.

Also, in terms of the 10 commandments:

Quote

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them.

Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html

Quote

Besides, Jesus himself said, "Not a jot or tittle of the Law will change until I return" (speaking of Mosaic law, the Old Testament laws!)

Quote from: Matthew 5:18-19

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Quote

When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html

BADecker

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Activity: 3990

Merit: 1385

Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 07:08:47 PM

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 07:00:20 PM

Quote

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

My defense in said post is that the bible regulates the situation back then (when slavery was common), however expressed no support of the act of enslavement.

Quote

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

That's Old Testament. When referring to the Christian bible, the New Testament is implied. The Old Testament was meant for the time before the coming of Christ (which by those practicing Judaism is THE bible since they don't consider Jesus as the son of God and are still waiting for one (the reason for 2 religions - Christianity and Judaism - instead of one)). I already linked it in this post but here's a rather brief explanation in regards to the Old Testament: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14336544

That's the dumbest argument christians have ever made...

This whole notion of the New Testament overwriting the Old Testament is complete horseshit nonsense that is not supported anywhere in the bible or dogma of christianity

You cannot possibly say you believe the creation story, flood, exodus, and 10-commandments are 100% true and accurate, but the other 603 commandments in the Old Testament don't count... that's bullshit cherry-picking to the extreme

Besides, Jesus himself said, "Not a jot or tittle of the Law will change until I return" (speaking of Mosaic law, the Old Testament laws!)

Acts 15:19-21:

Quote

“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Who were the Torah laws given to? The Egyptians? No, no, no. The Babylonians? No, no, no. The Persians? No, no, no. The Christians? No, no, no. The Jews? Yes, yes, yes.

Do the laws change, that is, is a jot or tittle dropped from the law when it is not obeyed? No, no, no.

"Christian" is talking about a person who has aligned himself with Jesus, the Christ. If we love Him, we will do what He says. His command is that we love one another. After all, even though the Law stands unchanged throughout the rest of this age, Jesus has overcome the Law. Salvation is by faith in Jesus. And salvation is the important thing.

Cool

Moloch

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Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 07:00:20 PM

Quote

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

My defense in said post is that the bible regulates the situation back then (when slavery was common), however expressed no support of the act of enslavement.

Quote

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

That's Old Testament. When referring to the Christian bible, the New Testament is implied. The Old Testament was meant for the time before the coming of Christ (which by those practicing Judaism is THE bible since they don't consider Jesus as the son of God and are still waiting for one (the reason for 2 religions - Christianity and Judaism - instead of one)). I already linked it in this post but here's a rather brief explanation in regards to the Old Testament: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14336544

That's the dumbest argument christians have ever made...

This whole notion of the New Testament overwriting the Old Testament is complete horseshit nonsense that is not supported anywhere in the bible or dogma of christianity

You cannot possibly say you believe the creation story, flood, exodus, and 10-commandments are 100% true and accurate, but the other 603 commandments in the Old Testament don't count... that's bullshit cherry-picking to the extreme

Besides, Jesus himself said, "Not a jot or tittle of the Law will change until I return" (speaking of Mosaic law, the Old Testament laws!)

Quote from: Matthew 5:18-19

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2652

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 06:48:20 PM

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 06:44:30 PM

Quote

Christianity has also preached that slavery is lawful and not a bad thing... in both the old and new testament

Since, I'm rather bored to wait, I'll get the Wikipedia mention on the New Testament out of the way. It is said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men". However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

First of all, I've looked at the passages that refer to this:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men"

And all the passages linked, the translation in several English versions seems to use the word "servant" rather than "slave", which could be both interpreted as lost in translation (beneficial to your side) and as to cover (regulate, not approve of ) slavery back in the day of Christ (which was a common practice at the time) as well as the current voluntary employment. There is however no positive (a.k.a. reinforcing) mention of the act of enslavement. From what I can logically deduct, said writings were meant to address the status quo, rather than encourage the act of slavery (taking new slaves). This view is also reinforced taking in consideration the following part of the quote:

Quote

However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

FINALLY!!! something with a tiny bit of substance (albeit completely wrong)

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

Quote from: mprep on March 27, 2016, 05:27:13 PM

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not... slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it included things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days"

That's Old Testament. When referring to the Christian bible, the New Testament is implied. The Old Testament was meant for the time before the coming of Christ (which by those practicing Judaism is THE bible since they don't consider Jesus as the son of God and are still waiting for one (the reason for 2 religions - Christianity and Judaism - instead of one)). I already linked it in this post but here's a rather brief explanation in regards to the Old Testament: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14336544

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1007

Poor impulse control.

Quote from: BADecker on March 31, 2016, 04:50:56 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on March 31, 2016, 04:41:24 PM

Quote from: BADecker on March 31, 2016, 03:30:27 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on March 31, 2016, 03:27:42 PM

Religion is pure evil.

True. But what does that say about all the people? All people are religious in one way or another.

Cool

No, all people are not religious in one way or another.

People who are not religious about their breathing are not people. Their body's are people-like. But they are dead, and therefore are not entirely people. Other than that, all people are religious about their breathing if nothing else.

I'm certainly not religious about breathing. My breathing is involuntary. I think that most gods prefer you to have a choice about belief, free will etc? You're focussing on one definition of religion which you're then applying to everything.

In the same way I can say you're almost completely atheist. You don't believe in the vast majority of gods that have ever existed (or have been claimed to exist), do you? So applying similar logic to yours, you must be mostly an atheist.

Moloch

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 722

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 06:44:30 PM

Quote

Christianity has also preached that slavery is lawful and not a bad thing... in both the old and new testament

Since, I'm rather bored to wait, I'll get the Wikipedia mention on the New Testament out of the way. It is said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men". However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

First of all, I've looked at the passages that refer to this:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men"

And all the passages linked, the translation in several English versions seems to use the word "servant" rather than "slave", which could be both interpreted as lost in translation (beneficial to your side) and as to cover (regulate, not approve of ) slavery back in the day of Christ (which was a common practice at the time) as well as the current voluntary employment. There is however no positive (a.k.a. reinforcing) mention of the act of enslavement. From what I can logically deduct, said writings were meant to address the status quo, rather than encourage the act of slavery (taking new slaves). This view is also reinforced taking in consideration the following part of the quote:

Quote

However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

FINALLY!!! something with a tiny bit of substance (albeit completely wrong)

So, you are claiming that although the bible condones slavery, it was "the good kind of slavery"? That's your defense?

Where is the support for this? You claim it's in the bible, but it's not...

Slavery in the bible is very cruel and quite descriptive... it includes things like, "you are allowed to beat your slave so long as he does not die within 2 days", and "you can pass your slaves to your children as property"... how can you defend either of those?

Quote from: Moloch on March 26, 2016, 12:44:59 PM

Slavery:

Quote from: Leviticus 25:44-46

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Quote from: Exodus 21:20-21

When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his property.

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2652

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: Moloch on March 31, 2016, 06:41:26 PM

Are you ready to debate slavery in the bible, or are you still trolling?

Here ya go (spoiler: there is no simple and concise answer):

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 02:45:38 PM

<...>

Quote from: mprep on March 31, 2016, 12:16:08 PM

Quote from: Moloch on March 29, 2016, 11:25:43 AM

Christianity has also preached that slavery is lawful and not a bad thing... in both the old and new testament, so don't get all, "but the new testament doesn't say that" on me...

[X]Bold statement with no evidence
[X]Previous arguments dismissed

You say I did not provide evidence for this claim, but I did... I said christianity had preached it... the bible supports slavery in at least a dozen places... do you need me to quote the exact verses for you, or are you capable of using google?

Here's the link again since you must have missed it (evidence you claim I didn't provide)

Quote from: Moloch on March 26, 2016, 12:44:59 PM

Slavery:

Quote from: Leviticus 25:44-46

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Quote from: Exodus 21:20-21

When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his property.

More slavery in the bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

See this for my answer to your "evidence":

Quote from: mprep on March 27, 2016, 05:27:13 PM

Leviticus, Exodus and Deuteronomy are all part of the Old Testament (also often referred to as the Hebrew Bible), which is overwritten by the New Testament in many branches (and/or sects) of Christianity. The Old Testament was meant as a holy book for the time (not for eternity) and became obsolete in many situations. Also, in terms of cherry-picking, that's why different branches and sects of both Christianity and other religions exist - there's constant debate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology) on what is accepted and what is not, especially as time progresses and our culture changes.

Sources (in terms of what I based the arguments upon):
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15/do-we-have-to-obey-the-laws-of-the-bible-if-so-what-laws/506#506
http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/3733/does-the-new-testament-override-the-old-testament
<...>

What you haven't proven is this (I'll bold and underline your statement I'm concerned with):

Quote

Christianity has also preached that slavery is lawful and not a bad thing... in both the old and new testament

Since, I'm rather bored to wait, I'll get the Wikipedia mention on the New Testament out of the way. It is said in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men". However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

First of all, I've looked at the passages that refer to this:

Quote

In several Pauline epistles, and the First Epistle of Peter, slaves are admonished to obey their masters, "as to the Lord, and not to men"

And all the passages linked, the translation in several English versions seems to use the word "servant" rather than "slave", which could be both interpreted as lost in translation (beneficial to your side) and as to cover (regulate, not approve of ) slavery back in the day of Christ (which was a common practice at the time) as well as the current voluntary employment. There is however no positive (a.k.a. reinforcing) mention of the act of enslavement. From what I can logically deduct, said writings were meant to address the status quo, rather than encourage the act of slavery (taking new slaves). This view is also reinforced taking in consideration the following part of the quote:

Quote

However, masters were told to serve their slaves "in the same way" and "even better" as "brothers", to not threaten them as God is their Master as well.

<...>

Topic: Christianity is Poison - page 48. (Read 52639 times)