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sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: LostDutchman on September 14, 2013, 10:18:17 PM

They wouldnt have to hold shit. They have a direct link to your bank account! Worst case is they would have to insure transactions by repaying in dollars.

They have a bank account, my paypal account and a credit card account for me. If someone buys a car from me on ebay an I dont deliver they take everything a got in my pp then my bank them max out my credit, if that doesnt cover it they put my account in the negative.

[/quote]

Uh, you are mistaken.

A buyer can no longer pay for a car through Paypal and in fact, ebaymotors is one of the few sections of ebay in which sellers may insist on cash in person, certified check, wire or other non-virtual methods of payment.

A deposit for the sale of a car, not to exceed USD $1K as I recall but I do not use Paypal in any way for vehicle sales.

I have sold over fifty (50) cars of various types on ebay and know what I am talking about.

My $.02.

[/quote]

I dont sell cars there but I am sure you are right but you are just proving my point paypal is in the business of stopping fraud. They could put a 1k limit on btc purchases

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 14, 2013, 10:12:02 PM

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 08:28:49 PM

It is that business model now! and it works. I cant make a fake paypal and buy items! There would be any greater incentive to do this with bitcoin than say gold coins on ebay in fact there would be less incentive.

So scammers are gonna go out in mass and get fake bank accounts, fake power bills, fake addresses because now you could get bitcoins .. come on get real.

You live in a fantasy world where no solutions are needed because the real world problems businesses actually face miraculously don't exist.

The problems you face have already been solved by Paypal. Your problems are not their problems they are the big boys for a reason

LostDutchman

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

[/quote]

They wouldnt have to hold shit. They have a direct link to your bank account! Worst case is they would have to insure transactions by repaying in dollars.

They have a bank account, my paypal account and a credit card account for me. If someone buys a car from me on ebay an I dont deliver they take everything a got in my pp then my bank them max out my credit, if that doesnt cover it they put my account in the negative.

[/quote]

Uh, you are mistaken.

A buyer can no longer pay for a car through Paypal and in fact, ebaymotors is one of the few sections of ebay in which sellers may insist on cash in person, certified check, wire or other non-virtual methods of payment.

A deposit for the sale of a car, not to exceed USD $1K as I recall but I do not use Paypal in any way for vehicle sales.

I have sold over fifty (50) cars of various types on ebay and know what I am talking about.

My $.02.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 08:28:49 PM

It is that business model now! and it works. I cant make a fake paypal and buy items! There would be any greater incentive to do this with bitcoin than say gold coins on ebay in fact there would be less incentive.

So scammers are gonna go out in mass and get fake bank accounts, fake power bills, fake addresses because now you could get bitcoins .. come on get real.

You live in a fantasy world where no solutions are needed because the real world problems businesses actually face miraculously don't exist.

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 14, 2013, 08:08:41 PM

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 06:56:46 PM

They wouldnt have to hold shit. They have a direct link to your bank account! Worst case is they would have to insure transactions by repaying in dollars.

A direct link to your bank account doesn't help because ACH transfers are reversible.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. I am guessing you are saying if paypal seizes the funds you can charge back? if that is the case it's not true

Quote

They have a bank account, my paypal account and a credit card account for me. If someone buys a car from me on ebay an I dont deliver they take everything a got in my pp then my bank them max out my credit, if that doesnt cover it they put my account in the negative.

If you're a scammer using a throwaway account, putting the account in the negative doesn't do anything.

There are already safe guards in place for that situation.

This business model will lead to a death spiral. Once scammers find the flaw in it, you get more and more scammers. This requires you to raise your prices to cover your costs of preventing fraud and covering fraud losses. The fraudsters don't care how high your prices are, they're not paying them anyway. So you wind up scaring off legitimate users and increasing your fraud percentage.

It is that business model now! and it works. I cant make a fake paypal and buy items! There would be any greater incentive to do this with bitcoin than say gold coins on ebay in fact there would be less incentive.

So scammers are gonna go out in mass and get fake bank accounts, fake power bills, fake addresses because now you could get bitcoins .. come on get real.

I can tell you dont use paypal.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 06:56:46 PM

They wouldnt have to hold shit. They have a direct link to your bank account! Worst case is they would have to insure transactions by repaying in dollars.

A direct link to your bank account doesn't help because ACH transfers are reversible.

Quote

They have a bank account, my paypal account and a credit card account for me. If someone buys a car from me on ebay an I dont deliver they take everything a got in my pp then my bank them max out my credit, if that doesnt cover it they put my account in the negative.

If you're a scammer using a throwaway account, putting the account in the negative doesn't do anything.

This business model will lead to a death spiral. Once scammers find the flaw in it, you get more and more scammers. This requires you to raise your prices to cover your costs of preventing fraud and covering fraud losses. The fraudsters don't care how high your prices are, they're not paying them anyway. So you wind up scaring off legitimate users and increasing your fraud percentage.

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 14, 2013, 06:43:28 PM

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 01:42:27 PM

Quote from: Moogle on September 14, 2013, 01:38:26 PM

You could have 6 billion signatures. Paypal still wouldn't accept bitcoin. Whether people want it or not they aren't going to stop using it. For 99% of internet users PayPal works and it works very well.

They have shown some serious interest in bitcoin recently. Stranger things have happened.

It's definitely not hopeless, though it's probably still at least a bit too early. The trick will be to come up with some kind of reasonable suggestion for how PayPal might interact with Bitcoins that actually furthers their strategic interests rather than threatening them.

For example, native Bitcoin payments don't offer any buyer protection. A key part of PayPal's business is offering buyer protection. And that's a reason many people prefer to use PayPal rather than Bitcoins to deal with an untrusted seller. PayPal could offer a buyer protection scheme if they just held the seller's Bitcoins for some amount of time.

They wouldnt have to hold shit. They have a direct link to your bank account! Worst case is they would have to insure transactions by repaying in dollars.

They have a bank account, my paypal account and a credit card account for me. If someone buys a car from me on ebay an I dont deliver they take everything a got in my pp then my bank them max out my credit, if that doesnt cover it they put my account in the negative.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 14, 2013, 01:42:27 PM

Quote from: Moogle on September 14, 2013, 01:38:26 PM

You could have 6 billion signatures. Paypal still wouldn't accept bitcoin. Whether people want it or not they aren't going to stop using it. For 99% of internet users PayPal works and it works very well.

They have shown some serious interest in bitcoin recently. Stranger things have happened.

It's definitely not hopeless, though it's probably still at least a bit too early. The trick will be to come up with some kind of reasonable suggestion for how PayPal might interact with Bitcoins that actually furthers their strategic interests rather than threatening them.

For example, native Bitcoin payments don't offer any buyer protection. A key part of PayPal's business is offering buyer protection. And that's a reason many people prefer to use PayPal rather than Bitcoins to deal with an untrusted seller. PayPal could offer a buyer protection scheme if they just held the seller's Bitcoins for some amount of time.

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Moogle on September 14, 2013, 01:38:26 PM

You could have 6 billion signatures. Paypal still wouldn't accept bitcoin. Whether people want it or not they aren't going to stop using it. For 99% of internet users PayPal works and it works very well.

They have shown some serious interest in bitcoin recently. Stranger things have happened.

Moogle

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

KUPO!

You could have 6 billion signatures. Paypal still wouldn't accept bitcoin. Whether people want it or not they aren't going to stop using it. For 99% of internet users PayPal works and it works very well.

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smoothie on September 13, 2013, 09:51:33 PM

Not sure how paypal fits into the bitcoin picture. Essentially if they endorse bitcoin and bitcoin comes successful, paypal goes the way of the dodo.

Bitcoin price to send... 0.63 and much higher once all the blocks are found
PP price to send ... 0.00

Paypal isnt going anywhere anytime soon.

rammy2k2

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1003

Quote from: johny1976 on September 09, 2013, 04:10:15 AM

Hey,

We created a petition with 300,000 subscriptions target.

We want PayPal to accept Bitcoin... It would be huge step.

Read the potition and give your subscription, thanks.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/paypal-on-bitcoin

i dont want PP to accept BTC ...

saif313

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

This petition is useless and waste of time Cheesy

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Not sure how paypal fits into the bitcoin picture. Essentially if they endorse bitcoin and bitcoin comes successful, paypal goes the way of the dodo.

frankenmint

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1018

HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com

Quote from: Kazimir on September 09, 2013, 08:51:59 AM

The whole idea of Bitcoin is to get rid of crap like paypal and banks in the first place

Exactly what is the added benefit of paypal supporting Bitcoin? If I pay with Bitcoin (and I do so when&wherever possible), it's because I prefer to AVOID paypal

DING DING DING!!!

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 13, 2013, 04:51:04 PM

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 10, 2013, 04:02:05 PM

Does anyone else find this laughable? ripple was sold as an easier way to get bitcoin!

Both of these things are true, depending on the particular situation a person is in.

Quote

If people can just buy bitcoin they wouldn't have any need for ripple!

Any fool can see that.

For people who only want to transact in a crypto-currency, that's probably true at least for the short term. Ripple has community credit capabilities, higher transaction speeds, and a few other properties that might make it advantageous even for people who are only interested in crypto-currencies. However, until the world switches to crypto-currencies, there's still a multi-billion dollar market in payments and conversions among fiat currencies.

"There's still a multi-billion dollar market in payments and conversions among fiat currencies."

Now it is starting to make sense.

bg002h

donator

Activity: 1464

Merit: 1047

I outlived my lifetime membership:)

The general idea is interesting but the petition would be better if it was written by a native English speaker or simply done in the OP's native language.

Anyone care to rewrite it? I think it's a long shot but a coherent petition might not fall on deaf ears.

JoelKatz

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1012

Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: sublime5447 on September 10, 2013, 04:02:05 PM

Does anyone else find this laughable? ripple was sold as an easier way to get bitcoin!

Both of these things are true, depending on the particular situation a person is in.

Quote

If people can just buy bitcoin they wouldn't have any need for ripple!

Any fool can see that.

For people who only want to transact in a crypto-currency, that's probably true at least for the short term. Ripple has community credit capabilities, higher transaction speeds, and a few other properties that might make it advantageous even for people who are only interested in crypto-currencies. However, until the world switches to crypto-currencies, there's still a multi-billion dollar market in payments and conversions among fiat currencies.

sublime5447

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

There's no need anymore for a middleman to make transactions between 2 strangers now that BTC exists.

Huh

most btc transactions happen with a man in the middle.. it is called escrow.

Btc can not kill the banks until it is large enough to take its place, which will never happen if people dont trade p2p.

There has to be an intermeadiate step, a bridge between the tradition banking system and BTC.

All the business in the world can take bitcoin and it won't make one damn bit of difference because you cant get coins. People are not going to go out in mass and do bank deposites or money orders. If you want BTC to be successful it has to be better than what is already in place.... that is not the case now

countryfree

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1047

Your country may be your worst enemy

I'm surprised and disappointed to see that several people here are supportive of the idea. Don't they remember the "be your own bank" slogan? I wish, and I would sign all the petitions there are, to increase the number of retailers accepting BTC, with the ultimate objective of making all financial institutions obsolete.

There's no need anymore for a middleman to make transactions between 2 strangers now that BTC exists.

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