Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 105. (Read 316448 times)

It is a very optimistic view that the site will double usage over 2-3 years? The site doubled usage just in the last month

Even if SatoshiDICE doesn't grow relative to the bitcoin economy (possible, since it's already so large), the bitcoin economy will FAR more than double over the next 2-3 years. I'm curious what your basis for analysis is?

Wait 15 years to break even... what are you talking about? 

If SatoshiDICE didn't grow at all (which it will) and you were never able to sell the share (which you can), then it would take about 10 years to break even.

Since the site will grow, and since you can sell your share whenever, the equation changes substantially. A conservative estimate with a doubling of site revenue within 2-3 years means you'd have made 100% within 1-2 years because the stock price would double to maintain the same 10x p/e valuation. The attractiveness of such an investment to professional investors should be apparent.

a) They are not an annuity. Their value will fluctuate with market demand based on dividends paid out, which are 100% of SatoshiDICE net profits.

b) Actually, the financial statements are better than "audited."  All the information is mathematically verifiable using the blockchain, which is public. You don't have to trust any auditor, you can audit yourself any time of day to see exactly what SatoshiDICE is making (and some have done that in other threads on this forum).

c) Not sure if it's fair to call it "extreme risk" when comparing to other Bitcoin investments out there... you know what I'm talking about. It's verifiably profitable, and everyone knows where the profits come from. It's priced at 10x P/E and anyone who knows investing will understand this is a very reasonable valuation for a company with large growth potential and which already pays dividends.

SatoshiDICE is not a get-rich-in-three-weeks-from-your-investment, investment. It's a transparent, income producing asset, and happens to be the majority of all Bitcoin transactions on the planet

For what it's worth, you can reduce the account-opening fee to 15 BTC by mentioning the key ID of an existing member:
http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/faq.html#13

Man some people need to check numbers more carefully. It is .0033278 for 1 of the 100m shares (though only 10m shares are being offered). It is not 1/100m of 10% of the shares. 

Math fail. It's 320,000 btc, or about 3.2m USD. This puts it at 10x p/e based on current earnings and assuming zero growth.  

Thanks, you might want to include that in the prospectus as well, not just on the asset contract page

All bitcoin risk is extreme risk in this perspective. Not saying it is not a valid perspective, either.

The concern you raise about voting rights is valid, but there is a reason to do things this way. Specifically, bitcoin lacks as of yet an effectual way to enforce the will of the shareholders against a recalcitrant management. Because of this, it is better (or at least more honest) to give shares no voting rights than to feign giving them some rights that in reality aren't enforceable in any practical manner (and in fact experience has shown that time and time again, these forums are filled to the brim with imploded pretenses of the sort). Yes, you lose out on the possibility that shareholder votes would enshrine better management. It's not clear that this would actually conceivably occur (and it's not so clear it occurs all that often in the common everyday world, either). In exchange you gain something, too.

The shares are intended to work as shares. It seems the most that can be done at the moment. Maybe in time we find better solutions.




So: 30 days lockdown, never sell out more than 50mn. That's the deal.

He sells 10% of SD for $350K (if all the shares sell)

I think that answers most of your questions

I didn't see this asked or discussed, so here's my question: Why?
Why does SD need to go public, why does Erik want to dilute his own ownership and give up some control over his business, and what will he use the money raised for?

I can't find anything in the prospectus about a lock-up period for the other 90 million shares

The asset is listed as 10 million shares, does that mean the other 90 million will never be sold

If they will be sold in the future, the asset should be listed as 100 million shares with a free-float of 10 million shares

I am planning on setting up a pass through for this asset to GLBSE, I am currently in contact with Meni and Erik to set this up
It should be all up in a day or two.
//DeaDTerra

I'll need some sort of brokerage service...

If anyone is willing to do this service please PM me.


Thank you...

Surely. If you have an MPEx account it's as easy as putting in a BUY order for your desired volume. If you don't have an account you will have to talk to someone who offers brokering services. I think Brendio might be one, there might be more people offering it.

Can I buy some of these? thanks

This is not playing around in some finance-themed MMORPG. This is investing. We're not playing here, you understand this? It's not the monthly subscription for Diablo IV we're discussing, too expensive at 20 btc, would be ok at 5.

If you need to talk to a lawyer you need to pay, depending on where you live, 500 or 5,000 dollars just for him to hear out your story. Nothing more. If you need to talk to a doctor you need to pay... eh, I don't even want to get into that.

IPOs are not for people wanting to buy 5 dollars worth of shares, nobody participated in the Facebook IPO based on the strength of his 19.95 balance sheet with freestocks.com.

20 bitcoins is nothing for an investor. He who stumbles and falls on a twenty bitcoin trap is not an investor. There's really no other way around it.

And if you have to pay 20btc just to register on MPEX just to get a few shares you will NEVER make a profit buying S.DICE.

And for now, and possibly for a little while longer, SatoshiDice is a lot more than 1.5% of all that's worth owning in bitcoins. There are some good companies out there. Maybe ten, maybe twenty, certainly not one hundred. This is one of them.


Net profit is calculated as the difference between revenue and expense. Why would this be problematic? What would it skew?


Because that is exactly what a company or corporation is: a voluntary association. Furthermore, milk is the white liquid seeping out a cow's udders, not the item found in a government approved package announcing to the world that within lies milk. This is an important point and I think too easily forgotten.


This is a very limiting, unfortunate and in the end destined-to-fail way to regard bitcoins. They are not this exotic pet, to play around the "serious" fiats and fill the cracks they leave.

Bitcoin is the harbinger of doom for all fiat currencies. That is its role. That's what it is supposed to do. The notion that it should be relegated to denominating scams and ridiculous penny-ante endeavors of bizarre internet denizens with visible mental handicaps (yes, not being able to do basic math is a mental handicap for an adult human) is loathsome.

Bitcoin will support million dollar ventures, and it will support billion dollar ventures. And then it will support trillion dollar ventures, and quadrillion dollar ventures, and as the dollar slowly I mean quickly devalues into irrelevancy bitcoin will support everything. That's the paradigm.

And as shocking as this may sound, nobody needs nobody's permission for this.

Now, here's the question, and it lies in front of everybody: do you have some money for which you want to make some money, or do you have some time to kill for which you want to waste people's time?

That's the whole story.

From the prospectus (Full):


Subtracting expenses out before the reported revenue numbers skews the profitability.  I get that they are relatively a small amount, but I don't get why you would do that?  I would think P&L should list all revenues and expenses.    Even if there is no outlay for an expense, it still should be booked, I would think.  Without doing that paints a rosier picture (margins) than actually exists. (Again, probably inconsequential, but why not include them?)


From the Asset page on MPEx:


 - http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=S.DICE

I still have a hard time grasping how these voluntary associations are being referred to as companies and corporations.

I can see how the operator might be protected from being sued personally by a customer, for instance, if I am understanding the concept of corporation by estoppel.  But I hate to see the word corporation used for these "assets".    These are voluntary associations of otherwise unrelated parties.  I've written on this elsewhere:

 - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.897131

When someone is talking about raising something like $7K for a project that you'ld never get a loan for from a bank or never would see finding through an Angel, for instance, then I think these cyber equities are a fantastic innovation.   But raisng over a quarter of a million dollars, with a valuation of several million dollars -- I wonder if this cyber-equities approach should be reconsidered.

What's the downside to finding a nice jurisdiction with great privacy laws an incorporating there?  There probably are several jurisdictions where you could incorporate yet still raise the funds through MPEx.