Topic: Cloudmining 101 - page 8. (Read 27761 times)

That payout is 0.9 BTC in total, not per day. In other words, you give the ponzi operator 1 BTC and they give you back 0.9 BTC.

Because I can count numbers. If you pay out .9 bitcoins per day, you will be broke on a second day. You need to keep selling an increasing number of cloud mining units every day to make profit. This is not easy.

Why don't you believe it's possible. If you give me 1 bitcoin for a cloud miner that will only generate .9 bitcoins I can "sell" you cloud mining forever while sitting in my pajamas and eating pizza.

I havent seen anything remotely resembling the claimed hashrates. Its not something I give much weight to if there are other ways to verify their hashrate, but with GAW, afaik, its pretty much all there is. And its made worse by how aggressively they sell/promote through affiliate links.

i think chabatmining is building huge ponzi at the moment
have few mhs overe there, lack of info,pictures,photos etc

Nice breakdown and a lot of useful info. People should read up more before jumping into some things for sure.

It is the OP's choice, and I'd also be interested to hear his opinion on this--whether he agrees with me or not.

How did you come up with 12 GH?
Their data center is supposedly hosting 5Ph of antminers. IMO they don't have to show all 5PH in hardware for the condition of "showing the data center" to be confirmed.

The point clearly states that there are no photos, which is not true. It doesn't say that there have to be several pictures, showing every single miner in their posession.
I believe other cloud companies, the ones that aren't marked with "3" haven't showed 100% of their hardware.

I'd like to hear the OP's opinion in this matter.

All valid points, but as I explained because of our operational model there is no way to provide an easy 'proof' you want as our wallets are all in different stages of earning from different pools so if you just 'added up' all of them you'd get an skewed view. Actually a positive skewed view, but given those wallets (as you've seen) are used for a very short period of time and then never used again, what would it prove for someone reading this in a months time? Nothing.

It's also not really a proof that you own the miners, just that you own (well, actually 'say' you own) the wallets that are receiving the fractional earnings from the awards from mining. The two aren't actually the same, especially if you've just bought wholesale mining that you control and are reselling it, or that you just happen to know the crypto chain of someone else's miners. Unlikely, but not impossible if you were a 'clever' fake miner.

You are of course entitled to be judge and jury as this is your thread and you are making the assessments, and the point about trust is a valid one. Our customer's do post on here, but as we start at the $1000+ price point generally they will do their own assessments and our strategy of managing risk, especially on customer earned coins. It's why I'm quite happy about this thread, it gives the complete story for us and indeed, as you say, they will make their own mind up. Throw in that for our large MegaMiner customers can physically come and see the kit we run (as well as mucking around on skidoos, visiting the ice hotel and many other benefits of being in the Arctic) it seems to be working given our customer base.

Thanks again for creating the thread as discussion is always important, and as I said I'm quite happy with anything you decide given you've given me the opportunity to put our side on here.

Justin
CEO
www.megamine.com

If they only provide pictures of a small fraction of their hardware (12GH out of 750), then its really not satisfying condition 3.

If I took a picture of my antminer s1, then claimed I had 10TH worth of hardware, I'd hope that would not nearly be enough to constitute "photographic evidence" of my mining farm.

Likewise, if I took a picture of 12GH worth of scrypt hardware, then claimed I had at least 50x that hashrate, I'm sure that first pic wouldn't constitute adequate photographic evidence of my mining farm.

Thats a shame; "probably legit" is by far the most generous a rating I can give, absent real cryptographic proof of (current) hashrate.  Given you are mining on a public blockchain, I honestly dont see how its difficult to provide such proof.  Im even thinking "probably legit" may be too mild.

Do keep in mind its not me you want to convince, my rating is just that, its your potential customers that you want to convince.Saying you are 100% transparent but unable to show your mining revenue isnt going to cut it with all that many I think.

We are 100% transparent about why we do things when asked.

Whilst you think that is a major issue, and this is your thread and you can score it the way you see it, we have we believe very valid reasons we don't do what you say you want to see. As that is now explained on this thread as well I'm quite comfortable with that as people can make their own mind up.

I'll leave this thread now to others that may want to add their service to them.

Justin
CEO
www.megamine.com

if you are unwilling and/or unable to prove your hashrate using the public blockchain, then  yeah, obviously it does cost you points and its a major issue IMO. Pictures are nice, but there is no telling who owns it or even if you still possess that hardware.
So much for 100% transparency.

We don't necessarily run our own pool so there isn't one currently for 'internal' as it's all pointed externally as it's giving better returns.

70TH is the original Neptunes. Look back at our initial thread of our Jupiters and you can see over 200TH of Jupiters racked (well, running 'naked'). So that's 270 of your "proof". Take into account another full run of Jupiters behind the Neptunes on the 1st batch of Neptunes post, and you are over 500 just on simple counting, and we have also posted the second drop of Neptunes before we racked them.

I've no desire to show each and every box I am afraid in a panorama of the entire building, primarily because we don't want to show off any of the main security features we have internally in the building, but thanks anyway for granting it to us for now.
Because we have come up with our own way of doing things which we know gives us the risk profile we want. If everyone did it the same then there would be no differentiation, and we have no interest in risking 1 days worth of earnings, nor see any benefit of moving BTCs around for the sake of moving them around. Aggregations means a further step which to do at scale you have to automate which creates risk. Cryptx may think it's worth it for some reason, we don't, that's just different people taking different views. If that scores us down in your eyes then that's a shame but we aren't going to change.

As I said it's on our portal, and there is an offer of giving you an account. We have no desire to publicly publish our sales on an on-going basis any more than the next person.

I'm quite cool with you giving an assessment of a number you feel is appropriate.

that's a nice overview.. can't agree to everything but very useful

Nobody is saying the pics are the only evidence of legitimacy, but OP rated cloud mining services and gave GAW a negative for "3) No pictures of their hardware and datacenter".

This point should be removed, as the pictures are available.

thank you Puppet
 

Thats fine (though Im not sure I buy the security argument) but then what is the signature you sign the coinbase transactions with in your own pool?


I am indeed surprised, because so far you've not 'proven' more than ~70TH, and I use the word "proven" lightly, as it wouldnt be proven until you sign a message with the key that belongs to the addresses you posted, but for now Ill grant you that, especially considering how many TH still appear to be missing.

Why dont you just disclose all the pools you use, and your userid on those pools? Or why not aggregate your pool revenue to one address that you prove ownership off, and each day you distribute bitcoins from that address to cold storage / customers / whatever ? Thats how eg cryptx does it. I just go here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1PETAmNrgdzx3FwzJPNuhx18JVKdGtwWt6

And can check each day how much they earned, and verify the origin of the funds is indeed some pool that actually mined those coins. That way you still risk no more than 1 day worth of revenue in case there is a security breach, and you have convincing proof of your hashrate.


Hence Im looking first for proof that you indeed own the hashrate you would claim. Without that, indeed it doesnt have any value.


Sorry if I missed it. Where exactly can I see how much hashrate you sold?

As I said we rotate addresses regularly (every 15 or 50BTC depending on if it's internal or customer bitcoins being mined) for internal security reasons (it means an employee could only 'ever' run off with 15 or 50BTC before they were found out), and so you aren't going to find an address that ever has more than 15 or 50 because when we get to 15 for customers or 50 for internal we move onto the next address. Different, yes, more secure, yes.

As we offer guaranteed 100% pool luck to our customers you may be surprised that we don't "mainly" run internal pools, as clearly that places the risk of the pool luck squarely on us, and hence we regularly use many other pools, and rotate around them, based on an internal hedging strategy, and so there isn't a single place you can find.

Not sure I follow, as people could put the 'deployed' on the portal at any figure. Surely critical is to see the 'sold' going up over time as customers are added (so you have some sense that it's a real figure) and not getting more than there is photographic proof for, and if you really want to check, buy a small contract and ensure the pool figure goes up by the right amount before/after your contract is enabled?

We've provided the latter, and I was offering you an account so you could check the former. Anything else is just photoshop / a text field generated by PHP (which proves nothing).....

J

I see 15TH on eligius, ~1 BTC/day worth of hashrate on btcguild, and an insignificant amount on the third one (no idea what pool that is).
Im far more interested in seeing the coinbase / address of your internal pool where I assume the bulk of your hashrate is pointed at.


I appreciate the offer, but it wouldnt solve anything. If Im given privileged information that other people have no access to, I would be asking people to trust me instead of you.

I realize short of publicly trading contracts on an exchange, its difficult to prove deployed hashrate vs sold hashrate , but Im more looking for public disclosure of those (real time) figures, so that anyone can compare what you claim to have deployed with your actual hashrate, and eg,  if someone orders 100TH,  he can see the available amount go down. Is the latter solid proof of anything? Clearly not, but as with all the other criteria, its a step in the right direction.