Cloudmining 101 - page 9. | Bitcointalksearch.org

joust

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Quote from: Puppet on November 18, 2014, 06:18:48 AM

1) No public mining address
We don't publish it but quite happy for it to be known.

We rotate mining addresses regularly for management reasons, but here's a few

Cold Storage of customer earnings
1239gzuEHnNAn9fEYxcdd5sscgcQ6Ffh48
1F8cb2xiGZLAtV1h6NUJ1qzEdmiHVq115W
19evT519aVF2WUTkQDTDUqMTbinAcwJpGv

External pools earning collectors
1L8ooWcab7EQF82Zh1UMUun4wCXWQsTFQN
1HXV4c8rsW1NE9XMGGmzk8rHBCjVHCReDQ
1BcWShWmYbdPGpGRHkQB84u65FihAyutoW

Quote from: Puppet on November 18, 2014, 06:18:48 AM

I dont require them to promote anyone, but Id be surprised if KnC wouldnt be willing to just post that your are a (large) customer. Then again, the pictures do speak for themselves.

I guess you'll have to ask KNC direct if you want a 'formal' post like that.

Quote from: Puppet on November 18, 2014, 06:18:48 AM

Quote

4) Open ended IPO
We strictly limit the sellable hash rate to what we physically mine.

Im afraid just saying that, is not good enough. Where can I compare deployed vs sold hashrate?

Not sure what you want here? The pictures we've posted show over 250TH of capacity (Cam counted 74TH in just one row of our kit that he used @ https://www.camscryptoblog.com/megamine-cloud-mining-review/) and we have posted further images after this of our next delivery.

We don't publish external views of our total pool for our customers, but I'll happily give you a limited account on our portal where you can see directly the total customer pool TH, and you'll see there isn't a big difference between the two. PM me your details (email, name and full postal address) and I'll give you an account.

J

Puppet

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Ha, I just posted in your thread asking some of those questions, our posts crossed

I suggest we continue the discussion here rather than in your thread.

Quote from: joust on November 18, 2014, 06:10:31 AM

More than happy for you to rate Megamine.com if you'd like. Here's our view but of course you are most welcome to form your own.

1) No public mining address
We don't publish it but quite happy for it to be known.

Now would be a good time. As long as you have not disclosed it, I cant grant you the point.

Quote

2) No endorsement from any asic vendor
We've a solid relationship with KNC but they don't promote any one customer which we prefer.

I dont require them to promote anyone, but Id be surprised if KnC wouldnt be willing to just post that your are a (large) customer. Then again, the pictures do speak for themselves.

Quote

4) Open ended IPO
We strictly limit the sellable hash rate to what we physically mine.

Im afraid just saying that, is not good enough. Where can I compare deployed vs sold hashrate?

joust

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

More than happy for you to rate Megamine.com if you'd like. Here's our view but of course you are most welcome to form your own.

1) No public mining address
We don't publish it but quite happy for it to be known.

2) No endorsement from any asic vendor
We've a solid relationship with KNC but they don't promote any one customer which we prefer.

3) No pictures of their hardware and datacenter
Nice little thread on here.

4) Open ended IPO
We strictly limit the sellable hash rate to what we physically mine.

5) Referral programs and social networking
We have no open ended referral program as we agree they aren't good news. We do have a few referrals in place but that's when there is some mutual benefit.

6) Anonymous operators
You can find out all about me, and the other directors, at http://www.megamine.com/aboutus.php

7) No exit strategy
We offer CashNow(TM) on our larger contracts for that exact reason. There is posting on the Cloud Mining thread from a customer that used it and was very happy.

Justin
CEO
Megamine.com

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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👻

Quote from: jimmothy on November 17, 2014, 10:14:53 PM

About GAW, I don't think their pics/endorsement should count as evidence they are legit.

They claimed to have ~750-1000 GH/s worth of hashlets mining scrypt in Oct 2. At that time the entire litecoin network was 1037 GH/s.

I find it hard to believe the litecoin/altcoin network could sustain such massive dumping, and on top of that GAW found some mysterious way to make their payouts higher than normal the conversion rate from ltc to btc.

All the pics of GAW's hardware combined only account for a few % of what they are claiming. Someone counted ~300 x 40 MH/s units which is only 12 GH/s.

I could be wrong but I think you're considering the new Bitmain 5ph/s order as an endorsement but that is long after GAW claimed to be running several MW worth of hardware.

Yeah, there is no way in hell GAW is not running fractional reserve hashing.

Puppet

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Quote from: julian071 on November 18, 2014, 03:22:16 AM

About Genesis-mining, there is one picture of their hardware facilities,

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respond

thx.

Quote

And about no exit strategy, while that is the case with Genesis, they do state that if the fee is higher then the profit for 20 days, the contract automatically ends.

Which is to say, there is no exit strategy.
Ended up rating them with 3 points for now.

julian071

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About Genesis-mining, there is one picture of their hardware facilities,

http://cointelegraph.com/news/112329/gavin-andresens-fractional-reserve-mining-cloud-miners-respond

And about no exit strategy, while that is the case with Genesis, they do state that if the fee is higher then the profit for 20 days, the contract automatically ends.

jimmothy

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About GAW, I don't think their pics/endorsement should count as evidence they are legit.

They claimed to have ~750-1000 GH/s worth of hashlets mining scrypt in Oct 2. At that time the entire litecoin network was 1037 GH/s.

I find it hard to believe the litecoin/altcoin network could sustain such massive dumping, and on top of that GAW found some mysterious way to make their payouts higher than normal the conversion rate from ltc to btc.

All the pics of GAW's hardware combined only account for a few % of what they are claiming. Someone counted ~300 x 40 MH/s units which is only 12 GH/s.

I could be wrong but I think you're considering the new Bitmain 5ph/s order as an endorsement but that is long after GAW claimed to be running several MW worth of hardware.

yvv

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Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 09:53:08 PM

Seriously, go and read either of those links.

Ok, I'll certainly follow your advise.

Quote

A cloud mining operation that does no mining yet claims it does and pays out from money acquired from new purchases is quite clearly a ponzi scheme.

If it does no mining at all, no renting, no re-saleing, yes it is clearly a ponzi scheme. It is hard to believe for me that this is possible for more than couple of month. Yet, I was surprised many times in my life with "impossible" things. Thanks for info, very interesting.

Mabsark

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Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 08:31:55 PM

It is not a ponzi. They speculate with hash power. I did it too at hashie.co with profit, and this is the only reason my investment there is going to be returned. It is gambling, not ponzi. And it can not be done without actual mining.

You obviously didn't even bother to check those links otherwise you would know that they do no mining whatsoever. If you don't believe that, then ask the operator of BDD (twentytwenty) and you will be told the same thing. Neither DMS or BDD were fraudulent though as they never claimed to be cloud mining services and were completely honest with how the system worked. Deprived (the operator of DMS) did run away with the money though making it a scam. Seriously, go and read either of those links.

As for a what a ponzi is, from wikipedia:

Quote

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator.

A cloud mining operation that does no mining yet claims it does and pays out from money acquired from new purchases is quite clearly a ponzi scheme.

jimmothy

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Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 08:31:55 PM

Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 07:53:07 PM

The point of me posting those links was simply to show that you can have "cloud mining" without any miners at all. Those services have 2 components, MINE and SELL and SELL has always been vastly more profitable (B.MINE=69.86% vs B.SELL=563.49% yield on Havelock) due to the size of the difficulty increases. Now, imagine running a service like that and keeping the SELL component for yourself and only allowing people to purchase the MINE component. That is essentially how you run a cloud mining ponzi.

Cloud mining ponzis like that will collapse once the difficulty increases drop below a certain threshold. With the recent low difficulty increases, some of the ponzi schemes may not have paid out as much as expected due to the above.

It is not a ponzi. They speculate with hash power. I did it too at hashie.co with profit, and this is the only reason my investment there is going to be returned. It is gambling, not ponzi. And it can not be done without actual mining.

No, the bitcoin difficulty derivative is NOT based on actual hashing power.

Put any start date in http://retrocalc.net/ and you can see exactly how much 1 GH/s would have paid out over time.

For example if you started mining on January 1st you would have earned 0.0261 BTC/GH. That means any ponzi charging more than 0.0261 btc/gh would have made a profit without doing any mining. (You would have to subtract another ~0.002 btc/gh for future earnings.)

Point is that it is very possible (and not very difficult) for a cloudmining ponzi to never collapse if they price the contracts right.

Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 08:40:01 PM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on November 17, 2014, 08:05:05 PM

The absolutely most profitable ponzi scheme is when you have some cheap BTC - probably stolen - and sell them as "cloud mining" - that's also called money laundering. But other than with ordinary money laundering where you have to give away a certain percentage to the launderer, you make money with those ponzis...

Guys, stop calling every scam a ponzi. Ponzi pyramid and money laundering are completely different crimes. It is like a murder vs tax avoidance. Both are crimes (edit: in many jurisdictions), but consequences are completely different.

And, by the way, thanks for information. I don't want to be involved into money laundering, and will be more careful when invest in cloud mining next time.

I think you're confused. He's just saying that it can make a ponzi more profitable to also launder money.

IMO it wouldn't be worth the effort considering you could create a decent cloudmining ponzi (by current standards) in less than an afternoon for someone with experience in web development.

yvv

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Quote from: RealMalatesta on November 17, 2014, 08:05:05 PM

The absolutely most profitable ponzi scheme is when you have some cheap BTC - probably stolen - and sell them as "cloud mining" - that's also called money laundering. But other than with ordinary money laundering where you have to give away a certain percentage to the launderer, you make money with those ponzis...

Guys, stop calling every scam a ponzi. Ponzi pyramid and money laundering are completely different crimes. It is like a murder vs tax avoidance. Both are crimes (edit: in many jurisdictions), but consequences are completely different.

And, by the way, thanks for information. I don't want to be involved into money laundering, and will be more careful when invest in cloud mining next time.

yvv

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Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 07:53:07 PM

The point of me posting those links was simply to show that you can have "cloud mining" without any miners at all. Those services have 2 components, MINE and SELL and SELL has always been vastly more profitable (B.MINE=69.86% vs B.SELL=563.49% yield on Havelock) due to the size of the difficulty increases. Now, imagine running a service like that and keeping the SELL component for yourself and only allowing people to purchase the MINE component. That is essentially how you run a cloud mining ponzi.

Cloud mining ponzis like that will collapse once the difficulty increases drop below a certain threshold. With the recent low difficulty increases, some of the ponzi schemes may not have paid out as much as expected due to the above.

It is not a ponzi. They speculate with hash power. I did it too at hashie.co with profit, and this is the only reason my investment there is going to be returned. It is gambling, not ponzi. And it can not be done without actual mining.

yvv

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Quote from: bitgeek on November 17, 2014, 07:44:04 PM

Aaand your wrong. These are just some of the pictures.
Gaw have been renting this building ever since they started to sell miners and used it as a warehouse to store the hardware.
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GAW-hashing-center.jpg

They also included the pictures of the AC units and transformers that power the building, not to mention its location on the map, so people can actually visit and ask who the owner is.

Well, I may be wrong. Can't check it myself.

dyask

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Quote from: Puppet on November 17, 2014, 09:37:59 AM

Quote from: dyask on November 17, 2014, 09:18:12 AM

By that standard, every site in existence would have a 7. What you are demanding doesn't mean anything. Chris is a real ASIC designer and well know in the community. He is a real person. Doesn't mean that he or anyone else couldn't run off with the money though.

I only see claims he is an fpga dev, not an asic designer. And again i dont care his online persona is well known, pirate was well known too. I want to know the legal person or entity behind it or its a obvious point. I know were to direct my lawyer if i want to sue cryptx or knc. Where do i go for ltcgear?

I would probably accept your argument if I weren't married to a lawyer. That plan fact is, who owns a website that is based some random location in the world isn't going to help. However, I decided your criteria is fine. Personally I would rather have LTCGear labelled as a Ponzi.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 07:53:07 PM

Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 07:24:37 PM

Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 06:22:04 PM

I don't think that it is possible to run cloud mining for long without mining at all.

Actually, it is. See Deprived Mining Speculation and Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative.

tl;dr What is a point there?

The point of me posting those links was simply to show that you can have "cloud mining" without any miners at all. Those services have 2 components, MINE and SELL and SELL has always been vastly more profitable (B.MINE=69.86% vs B.SELL=563.49% yield on Havelock) due to the size of the difficulty increases. Now, imagine running a service like that and keeping the SELL component for yourself and only allowing people to purchase the MINE component. That is essentially how you run a cloud mining ponzi.

Cloud mining ponzis like that will collapse once the difficulty increases drop below a certain threshold. With the recent low difficulty increases, some of the ponzi schemes may not have paid out as much as expected due to the above.

The absolutely most profitable ponzi scheme is when you have some cheap BTC - probably stolen - and sell them as "cloud mining" - that's also called money laundering. But other than with ordinary money laundering where you have to give away a certain percentage to the launderer, you make money with those ponzis...

RealMalatesta

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In some countries, the people who participate in a promo-sig-game like currently with cloudminr.io are becoming part of the fraud. So it is obvious: Greed is stronger than brain. One day, some of these promotors could end up in the interrogation room... the same is true for people who offer to be an escrow.

Mabsark

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Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 07:24:37 PM

Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 06:22:04 PM

I don't think that it is possible to run cloud mining for long without mining at all.

Actually, it is. See Deprived Mining Speculation and Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative.

tl;dr What is a point there?

The point of me posting those links was simply to show that you can have "cloud mining" without any miners at all. Those services have 2 components, MINE and SELL and SELL has always been vastly more profitable (B.MINE=69.86% vs B.SELL=563.49% yield on Havelock) due to the size of the difficulty increases. Now, imagine running a service like that and keeping the SELL component for yourself and only allowing people to purchase the MINE component. That is essentially how you run a cloud mining ponzi.

Cloud mining ponzis like that will collapse once the difficulty increases drop below a certain threshold. With the recent low difficulty increases, some of the ponzi schemes may not have paid out as much as expected due to the above.

bitgeek

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Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 07:31:14 PM

Quote from: bitgeek on November 17, 2014, 07:24:14 PM

You gave this point to GAW.

3) No pictures of their hardware and datacenter
There is no reason not to provide such pictures, except of course, if there is nothing to take pictures off.

In reality pictures of their data centers are available:

Outside:
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.org%2F5ahdyp6m3%2F14_central1.jpg&t=546&c=NxqoyAFcdcDH2w

Inside:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JqqP37Ygce4/VF0tEsgGprI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/pa6-Mrp43x4/s1600/Miners2.jpg
http://gawminers.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/bgGSEVf.jpg

Come on, there is nothing proving that these picture are made at a property of XYZ company. This does not mean that XYZ are scammers. You buy a pig in a poke with every cloud mining company.

Aaand your wrong. These are just some of the pictures.
Gaw have been renting this building ever since they started to sell miners and used it as a warehouse to store the hardware.
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GAW-hashing-center.jpg

They also included the pictures of the AC units and transformers that power the building, not to mention its location on the map, so people can actually visit and ask who the owner is.

yvv

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Quote from: bitgeek on November 17, 2014, 07:24:14 PM

You gave this point to GAW.

3) No pictures of their hardware and datacenter
There is no reason not to provide such pictures, except of course, if there is nothing to take pictures off.

In reality pictures of their data centers are available:

Outside:
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.org%2F5ahdyp6m3%2F14_central1.jpg&t=546&c=NxqoyAFcdcDH2w

Inside:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JqqP37Ygce4/VF0tEsgGprI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/pa6-Mrp43x4/s1600/Miners2.jpg
http://gawminers.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/bgGSEVf.jpg

Come on, there is nothing proving that these picture are made at a property of XYZ company. This does not mean that XYZ are scammers. You buy a pig in a poke with every cloud mining company.

yvv

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Activity: 1344

Merit: 1000

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Quote from: Mabsark on November 17, 2014, 06:47:13 PM

Quote from: yvv on November 17, 2014, 06:22:04 PM

I don't think that it is possible to run cloud mining for long without mining at all.

Actually, it is. See Deprived Mining Speculation and Bitcoin Difficulty Derivative.

tl;dr What is a point there?

Topic: Cloudmining 101 - page 9. (Read 27846 times)