Topic: Coronavirus Outbreak - page 110. (Read 29937 times)

I take it NYC has helped the economy a lot by dragging their feet initially.

The time to lock the shit down is before the heathcare system gets FUBARed.

Science is not determined by consensus, or by appeal to authority, both of which you are relying completely on here to try to argue your point. Experts are inevitably wrong, because the understanding of science is constantly changing. Furthermore, they are also influenced by out side forces that control their publication, their funding, their employment, and their general reputation in the community. These offer plenty of motive to manipulate outcomes to desired goals.

Your argument that the consensus of these people is the only thing that should be relied upon is asinine, and the words of some one with zero critical thinking abilities who wants to be held in the warm embrace of the establishment and have mommy and daddy tell them everything they want to hear.



It sure does seem like you are claiming your premise is factual while my premise has no basis in fact.

1. Animals are used in pathogen testing
2. Mutation of pathogenic viruses can be accelerated in labs using animals
3. Monitoring these mutations, traits resulting from mutation can be selected for and further mutated
4. This process is identical to the natural process of mutation, only controlled by selection
5. Even if the virus was 100% naturally occurring, there is no reason it couldn't have been collected and purposely distributed


Which of these points is not scientific fact Nutilduhh?

People like you who sit around waiting for permission to have their own thoughts will always be behind the curve and in the dark. That is why I showed up here in 2011, while you showed up in 2014 with the first huge wave of free lunch Doge noobs. That is why I was warning about this virus at the end of January while people like you were still pooh poohing it. You require the cult of establishment to approve your thoughts for you first before you have them. You don't even trust your own abilities for reasoning, and as a result to sooth your fragile ego, you have to argue no one else can either because you are too weak intellectually and emotionally to make that step. In short, you are ignorant and afraid, and anyone else who doesn't join you in that state is wrong, because obviously you are the best, so no one else could possibly do any better.

He can effectively invalidate the orders and encourage people to come back to work. The orders are almost certainly unconstitutional, but ignoring this fact, they cannot be realistically be enforced if they are defied in masse.

If Trump says that it is safe for certain people to go to work and come out of their homes and he has the support of doctors, people would likely listen to him, especially if they are needing money to pay their bills.

I think a fairly large part of the shelter in place orders in much of the country are intended to harm the economy. San Francisco has a shelter in place order and there are only about 150 cases. The mayor of los Angelos said that he expects residents to have to stay in their homes for months rebutting what Trump said about reopening the economy by Easter. LA has about 650 cases, I would estimate that at most there are 130 people hospitalized in LA and the mayor is saying the hospitals are overwhelmed. I would say that claiming hospitals are overwhelmed with 130 patients and pre-judging the outcome before the data is available removes his credibility.

The orders are fairly transparently political when governments are allowing pot dispensaries to stay open while shutting down gun shops.

He could try, but it'd be a disaster. The death tolls are rising like crazy and even China's still experimenting with their vaccines.

That fella totally downplayed the gravity of the whole situation. 2 weeks is insufficient to say the least.

He hasn't really closed anything down, I don't think.

The White House is doing a '15 days to slow the spread' thing where they suggest everyone practice social distancing, but I think all the official orders to shut down xyz have been made by Mayors and Governors.

Do you think Trump will reopen the country by easter?  Or do you think he'll be stopped?

The only reason I indulge to the isolation process, is exactly that.
If there is one chance that you're right, I can stay inside my house for two weeks - no prob - for the good of mankind.

But that's about it man.

Even more reason to isolate. If we are all infected then we want this virus to die completely so it doesn't have a chance to mutate and reinfect us all again. Only way to do that is isolation for a month.

Only if you take for granted, that we're not all infected already.

Here is another perspective:
The chief of the village is asking his warriors not to ride their horses, cos in the next village there are a few sick elders. Some even already died from this invisible disease, and the one available doctor cannot cope with them, and is overwhelmed. Failure to do so, might wipe out your parents and grandparents. It doesn't matter that you can't put food on the table, or be free to move in this village or the next. Be safe!

Italy didn't impose the lock down fast enough. 

We know a lot from history about viruses.  Telling people to avoid each other until the virus runs out of hosts is the best option. 

I entertain the idea that I am wrong all the time.  Nearly constantly in fact.  One MUST do that in order to absorb new information and ideas.  Only after many YEARS of testing and re-testing do I normally feel a fairly high degree of confidence in most things.

It's interesting to note 10 years ago my ideas about a lot of things were probably pretty close to what you seem to espouse today.  I was more inclined to use the 'consensus' as promoted by corp/gov as a starting point than I am today, but one can only get burnt so many times before one evolves their philosophical methods.

I won't speak for Techshare, but my sense from his writing is that his methods are similar to mine.

While I tend to agree with your statement, the specific letter come from health worker, and it is not related to the total resources allocated to the health system, but how these are allocated into the health system.
Of course spending more on health and less on the Government itself (Italian army, not so sure how much we spend on it...(this is sarcasm)) would improve the situation.

Your IQ is going into the negative side of the scale. That website is absolute garbage, the very definition of fake news.

FTFY.

It does not require a change of perspective, it requires a change of resource allocation. Had they not been pocketing the money and feeding the war-machine, the healthcare system could be budgeted for more.

The lockdown is working. You do not know what you are talking about.

Does it work? India is a huge country with a lot of people around the country.
Lockdown wasn't very effective to other countries - Italy was one of them - and we saw who it ended.
Some other countries apart from Italy is Spain, Germany that is reported that people do not show to be disciplined to the lockdown rules.

A letter from medics in the epicentre of the Italian outbreak:

At the Epicenter of the Covid-19 Pandemic and Humanitarian Crises in Italy: Changing Perspectives on Preparation and Mitigation

Worth a read if you are still behind in the epidemic cycle, like US.

So India placed a nationwide lock down of over a billion people recently which plays into the strategy the U.S. and China employed. Some food for thought about the strategies that are possible for fighting coronavirus. There's only two at play here -

1.) Herd immunity - The idea of herd immunity is that people are out and about with no major disruptions to daily life. People contract the virus, self isolate, then gain the critical antibodies needed to remain immune from the infection. If enough people gain immunity, those who are most vulnerable are safe because the virus doesn't have any optimal carrier to transmit itself. Under this situation, though, the most vulnerable must self isolate regardless of whether they have the virus or not. South Korea is currently using this strategy because they have the infrastructure available after H1N1 and SARS to implement massive testing on its population.

2.) Self isolation and total lock down to flatten the curve. The U.S, China, and Italy primarily seem to be using this technique which involves a temporarily isolation of everyone, vulnerable or not, in order to slow transmission of the disease to allow for increased hospital infrastructure. This allows the medical community to deal with the influx of patients who might experience the virus and increase production of ventilators, PPE, and ICU units. However, the price of this is shutting down the entire federal economy with lasting ramifications for years.


We're not going to find out which strategy worked best until long after this is over because of the possibility of second infections but what's clear is that nation wide lock downs are undoubtedly killing the U.S. economy.

its like someone like badecker going to court to ask 'can you still drive with one leg or one arm'
loads of evidence of adaptive cars are shown. video evidence of people with one leg driving.
but then badecker said.. yea but the person i am asking specifically has 2 legs and 2 arms. so he cant drive with one leg/arm if he has 2

(its the standard dumb ass tactics silly people do to try and win a debate by being creative about the context/scope and not wanting to know actual facts)

The number of people who believe a thing is not related to its validity. Lots of people can be wrong, and people, especially such as yourself, are very fond of defining truth as what you perceive the popular consensus to be. The popular consensus is specifically maintained in order to keep people with little to no ability to use logic in the dark using the powerful human motivation to conform with the group. That is all you have, not logic, but lots of parrots all repeating each other, no one understanding anything.

What I said is a fact regardless of all the dumb shit you say. Logic overpowers the words of hundreds of people appealing to popularity and or authority. This isn't my opinion, it is a scientific fact. The fact is what I said is true, you keep crying about how you are right because you go with the popularity contest though Nutilduuuh. "Established science" is inevitably modified and proven wrong as history shows. That is the nature of genuine scientific progress, not the cult of the establishment that you advocate for.

 

That is a very, very creative interpretation of what happened in court.
Truth:
Lanka required a single scientific study in which the existance and size of the measles virus was proven.
The former student that claimed to have won the price rightfully, because he proved both.
He actually did, BUT the requirement of "single scientific study" was not met, because the student proved the existence AND size of the virus by combining results and methods of six scientific works.
So the student couldn't deliver a single Paper in which existence and size both were proven.

It's true that the student failed to win the contest by not fulfilling a single requirement.
It's wrong that the fact of non-existence of the measles virus was established through this, because it was proven numerous times before in studies, just without inclusion of determination of the virus size, which were to be found in other studies, which didn't explicitly prove the existence.

SO clearly fake news regarding the non-existence of measles viruses.

When you look at hidden history, at the time that penicillin became known, there were large numbers of researchers who knew that "bugs" weren't the problem.

Today, we are finding our through the study of phages - viruses and parts of viruses - that viruses exist to control bacterial infections. The reason why they don't work properly is at least twofold:
1. Our general health is not what it should be - mostly a lack of a wide variety of healthy green plants;
2. Many bacteria and viruses have died off or changed so that they don't do their original jobs.

If we were living with a properly balanced group of healthy bacteria and viruses, we would probably live a lot longer than we do. Killing bacteria and viruses isn't the answer to long life, even though it might be the answer to keeping a life from becoming too short, at times.