Cricket match prediction discussions - page 235.

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Quote from: mersal on December 13, 2019, 12:22:44 AM

I am missing those old South African team which is considered to the level of Australia even if they didn't won the world cup trophy due to their players ability but currently they failed to create/find new talent which makes then to suffer a lot but the great thing is they were looking talents in their country so even if they won a trophy they can proudly say we won but other teams you mentioned may not have that much of feeling.

South African cricket board destroyed themselves by implement color rules and regulations rather than selecting players on their skill level and if you start selecting players on that merit then you will see many players leaving for better opportunity as they are uncertain about their playing career when your selection panel starts selecting players to fulfill their quota.

Quote from: mersal on December 13, 2019, 12:22:44 AM

Cricket is becoming a business more than a game...

All the sports have incorporated business and you cannot blame that on cricket alone.

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Quote from: mersal on December 13, 2019, 12:22:44 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 12, 2019, 09:32:19 PM

Look at the current state of the South African team. Two decades back, they used to be the no.1 ODI side. Now they can't even give a good fight against the top teams.

I am missing those old South African team which is considered to the level of Australia even if they didn't won the world cup trophy due to their players ability but currently they failed to create/find new talent which makes then to suffer a lot but the great thing is they were looking talents in their country so even if they won a trophy they can proudly say we won but other teams you mentioned may not have that much of feeling.

Cricket is becoming a business more than a game...

South Africa was a very strong team in the past, but they lost thier way due to the quota system which forces their team to comprise of 6 black players. If South Africa seriously wishes to compete against the top teams then they need to get rid of the quota system, and start selecting players on thier merits and how they perform in the domestic leagues.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/07/01/crickets-quota-system-has-impacted-south-africa/

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 12, 2019, 09:32:19 PM

Now coming to England, they have relied heavily on foreign talent for the last 2-3 decades to stay on top. Can you imagine an English team without players such as Ben Stokes, Eoin Morgan and Jofra Archer? IMO, it is good that players such as Morgan and Archer are getting fat salaries by playing for England. But the question is why the other cricket boards should suffer as a result. Look at the current state of the South African team. Two decades back, they used to be the no.1 ODI side. Now they can't even give a good fight against the top teams.

I am missing those old South African team which is considered to the level of Australia even if they didn't won the world cup trophy due to their players ability but currently they failed to create/find new talent which makes then to suffer a lot but the great thing is they were looking talents in their country so even if they won a trophy they can proudly say we won but other teams you mentioned may not have that much of feeling.

Cricket is becoming a business more than a game...

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Quote from: SaShiRaJaVu on December 12, 2019, 11:18:50 AM

Quote from: mersal on December 12, 2019, 12:46:27 AM

The cooling period should be towards England not for Ireland if that such exist then only the country cannot recruit the players until the next cooling period.So England cannot select any players from another country for the next four players so we can stop talent selling. Cheesy

I do not think that these cooling period was created to aide England but the GCC countries especially UAE and other Arab nations as the players are hired mercenaries as none of the people from their country are playing for their national team and all of the team members are filled with players from India, Pakistan and other countries and i guess these leeway rules are made to help them rather than other countries, but then if there is a loophole then other countries will take advantage of it.

The headquarters of the ICC is located in the United Arab Emirates, and the Emirates Cricket Board has been one of the biggest supporters of global cricket. Perhaps that was one of the reason why the ICC tweaked the rules to aid them some 15 years ago. But it is not a good sight to watch the Emirates cricket team playing matches without a single Emirati in the playing XI. The same can be said about several other teams, including Singapore, Hong Kong and Canada. There should be a mandatory minimum of 3-4 citizens in the playing XI.

Now coming to England, they have relied heavily on foreign talent for the last 2-3 decades to stay on top. Can you imagine an English team without players such as Ben Stokes, Eoin Morgan and Jofra Archer? IMO, it is good that players such as Morgan and Archer are getting fat salaries by playing for England. But the question is why the other cricket boards should suffer as a result. Look at the current state of the South African team. Two decades back, they used to be the no.1 ODI side. Now they can't even give a good fight against the top teams.

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Quote from: mersal on December 12, 2019, 12:46:27 AM

The cooling period should be towards England not for Ireland if that such exist then only the country cannot recruit the players until the next cooling period.So England cannot select any players from another country for the next four players so we can stop talent selling. Cheesy

I do not think that these cooling period was created to aide England but the GCC countries especially UAE and other Arab nations as the players are hired mercenaries as none of the people from their country are playing for their national team and all of the team members are filled with players from India, Pakistan and other countries and i guess these leeway rules are made to help them rather than other countries, but then if there is a loophole then other countries will take advantage of it.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 11, 2019, 08:41:11 PM

Quote from: mersal on December 11, 2019, 03:37:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Now we can't stop these players from doing so. But the ECB should give some sort of monetary compensation to the Irish board, so that they can be reimbursed of the money they spent on the players.

I am not sure is they any such rule exist on the book of cricket if not then its better to create something so in future we can avoid country clashes for players migration.Or some kind of fines will be collected for every match he was playing for another country was better idea?

If there is a fine (I would rather use the term monetary compensation), then it should be a one off payment and not a fixed amount per match. For example, some one who is playing for Ireland can represent England if he gets selected to the team tomorrow. But the reverse is not true. If Ireland want to select someone who has played for England, then there is a 4-year cooling period.

This rule was created in order to make sure that talented players don't drop out of teams such as England and play for smaller countries. Who in their right mind would wait for 4 years? By that time, their career will be over. But it is very discriminatory towards the smaller countries. This 4-year cooling period should be applicable for smaller countries as well.

The cooling period should be towards England not for Ireland if that such exist then only the country cannot recruit the players until the next cooling period.So England cannot select any players from another country for the next four players so we can stop talent selling. Cheesy

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Quote from: mersal on December 11, 2019, 03:37:55 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Now we can't stop these players from doing so. But the ECB should give some sort of monetary compensation to the Irish board, so that they can be reimbursed of the money they spent on the players.

I am not sure is they any such rule exist on the book of cricket if not then its better to create something so in future we can avoid country clashes for players migration.Or some kind of fines will be collected for every match he was playing for another country was better idea?

If there is a fine (I would rather use the term monetary compensation), then it should be a one off payment and not a fixed amount per match. For example, some one who is playing for Ireland can represent England if he gets selected to the team tomorrow. But the reverse is not true. If Ireland want to select someone who has played for England, then there is a 4-year cooling period.

This rule was created in order to make sure that talented players don't drop out of teams such as England and play for smaller countries. Who in their right mind would wait for 4 years? By that time, their career will be over. But it is very discriminatory towards the smaller countries. This 4-year cooling period should be applicable for smaller countries as well.

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Quote from: mersal on December 11, 2019, 03:37:55 PM

I am not sure is they any such rule exist on the book of cricket if not then its better to create something so in future we can avoid country clashes for players migration.Or some kind of fines will be collected for every match he was playing for another country was better idea?

i am sure that the rules were strict earlier and you cannot migrate from one country to country and start playing, now a days the rules are more liberal and it might be because the political situation around the globe is changing as well and the moral standards in sports also have a change and i think that is what is happening in cricket as earlier if you need to represent the nation either your grand parents or you must be born in that country but now a days the rules are liberal and i am not aware of the extent but i am sure it is not that strict like it used to be.

mersal

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Now we can't stop these players from doing so. But the ECB should give some sort of monetary compensation to the Irish board, so that they can be reimbursed of the money they spent on the players.

I am not sure is they any such rule exist on the book of cricket if not then its better to create something so in future we can avoid country clashes for players migration.Or some kind of fines will be collected for every match he was playing for another country was better idea?

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Quote from: Thekool1s on December 11, 2019, 11:58:24 AM

That's really a skewed way to put it. Money is not everything. Ask people who have got the money and they will tell you otherwise. There are more valuable things like Happiness, personal development and so on. "Sports People (Athletes)" often have long carriers lasting at least a decade and they make a fortune no matter what sport they play in or whatever their intention might be. So yeah it's not all about money always... The are other factors in play.

If you take a realistic take on things every athlete who came into a sport because of their skills and then they think about monetizing their skills and have a good career and that is the case with every sportsman or women and there is a limited opportunity for any sports person to make their money and by mid thirty their sporting career will end and the amount of money they make during that period will be their asset, so there is nothing more than money they make during that period as they do not have a secondary career they can make money.

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Quote from: Thekool1s on December 11, 2019, 11:58:24 AM

Quote

Everyone is here for the money and sports people have a small window to make money and hence you cannot tie anyone up in my opinion.

That's really a skewed way to put it. Money is not everything. Ask people who have got the money and they will tell you otherwise. There are more valuable things like Happiness, personal development and so on. "Sports People (Athletes)" often have long carriers lasting at least a decade and they make a fortune no matter what sport they play in or whatever their intention might be. So yeah it's not all about money always... The are other factors in play.

Oh... common.... for once we can think rationally and get out of this moral highground BS. Playing cricket is like any other profession, and there is nothing wrong in changing your job in case the new employer is willing to give you a 100% hike. The only thing is that the old employer should not feel bad and he should be compensated for their loss.

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Quote

Everyone is here for the money and sports people have a small window to make money and hence you cannot tie anyone up in my opinion.

That's really a skewed way to put it. Money is not everything. Ask people who have got the money and they will tell you otherwise. There are more valuable things like Happiness, personal development and so on. "Sports People (Athletes)" often have long carriers lasting at least a decade and they make a fortune no matter what sport they play in or whatever their intention might be. So yeah it's not all about money always... The are other factors in play.

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Pollard and Hetmyer smashing the Indian bowlers once after the powerplay. Both has made the 50 runs partnership in just 27 balls. Though there is big requirement in the run rate for a win, WI manages to keep on scoring which can help in the last five overs of the innings. Now a catch has been dropped by Mohammed Shami which is of Hetmyer's. This mistake of drop can take the match closer.

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Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on December 08, 2019, 01:00:09 PM

If these players have not moved out what is the guarantee that they will be even representing the country they are born let alone they will be having the opportunity to play cricket, they moved out and they had the opportunity and develop their cricket and hence they are representing the teams they settled, we can speculate as much as we want but the facts are they represent the countries they are living.

In case of South Africa I can't guarantee that (in part due to the quota policy in team selection). But in all the other cases, these players were guaranteed a permanent slot in the playing XI. Eoin Morgan was being considered as the best player in the Ireland side and the cricket board had gone to great lengths trying to regain him, when he announced that he is shifting his allegiance to England. Same was the case with Jofra Archer. He was all set to play for West Indies, when he suddenly announced his intention to represent England.

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Quote from: Clement Kaliyar on December 08, 2019, 01:00:09 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 07, 2019, 09:54:31 PM

~snip
1. Imagine a South African team, consisting of players such as Marnus Labuschagne, Colin de Grandhomme, Neil Wagner, David Wiese and Hardus Viljoen. They will be able to give tough fight to the big 3 teams. But these players have moved to other countries and no longer represent South Africa.

2. Imagine Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland. He's one of the best international batsmen out there now, and in case he had represented Ireland then they could have become one of the top 5 teams.

3. Imagine a West Indies team with players such as Jofra Archer and Chris Jordan.

4. Imagine a Pakistani team with Fawad Ahmed, Imran Tahir and Usman Khawaja.

If these players have not moved out what is the guarantee that they will be even representing the country they are born let alone they will be having the opportunity to play cricket, they moved out and they had the opportunity and develop their cricket and hence they are representing the teams they settled, we can speculate as much as we want but the facts are they represent the countries they are living.

We do not need to imagine these players to play from their original home because they fate is to represent another country. Just like people go to another countries to get work permit and permanent visas, you cannot just keep on thinking if they would have not left the country, what would have happened.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 07, 2019, 09:54:31 PM

~snip
1. Imagine a South African team, consisting of players such as Marnus Labuschagne, Colin de Grandhomme, Neil Wagner, David Wiese and Hardus Viljoen. They will be able to give tough fight to the big 3 teams. But these players have moved to other countries and no longer represent South Africa.

2. Imagine Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland. He's one of the best international batsmen out there now, and in case he had represented Ireland then they could have become one of the top 5 teams.

3. Imagine a West Indies team with players such as Jofra Archer and Chris Jordan.

4. Imagine a Pakistani team with Fawad Ahmed, Imran Tahir and Usman Khawaja.

If these players have not moved out what is the guarantee that they will be even representing the country they are born let alone they will be having the opportunity to play cricket, they moved out and they had the opportunity and develop their cricket and hence they are representing the teams they settled, we can speculate as much as we want but the facts are they represent the countries they are living.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 07, 2019, 09:54:31 PM

Quote from: UmerIdrees on December 07, 2019, 11:32:46 AM

The only thing which has changed is the difference between the good and bad teams have increased a lot. India, England and Australian teams are way too good than SouthAfrica, Pakistan, srilanka, West Indies etc and so the most of the matches become one sided.

Now it has become easier for the players to move from one country to another, and that is probably causing this imbalance. Now consider this:

1. Imagine a South African team, consisting of players such as Marnus Labuschagne, Colin de Grandhomme, Neil Wagner, David Wiese and Hardus Viljoen. They will be able to give tough fight to the big 3 teams. But these players have moved to other countries and no longer represent South Africa.

2. Imagine Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland. He's one of the best international batsmen out there now, and in case he had represented Ireland then they could have become one of the top 5 teams.

3. Imagine a West Indies team with players such as Jofra Archer and Chris Jordan.

4. Imagine a Pakistani team with Fawad Ahmed, Imran Tahir and Usman Khawaja.

As I mentioned there are lot of politics inside cricket as well so players to do something so that they can shine longer and also can make money than sitting on bench.It is also a nation's duty to rewards what a player deserves and encourages them to make more records on the game they were representing if its happening opposite then players will move where he gets better respect for his ability.

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on December 07, 2019, 11:32:46 AM

The only thing which has changed is the difference between the good and bad teams have increased a lot. India, England and Australian teams are way too good than SouthAfrica, Pakistan, srilanka, West Indies etc and so the most of the matches become one sided.

Now it has become easier for the players to move from one country to another, and that is probably causing this imbalance. Now consider this:

1. Imagine a South African team, consisting of players such as Marnus Labuschagne, Colin de Grandhomme, Neil Wagner, David Wiese and Hardus Viljoen. They will be able to give tough fight to the big 3 teams. But these players have moved to other countries and no longer represent South Africa.

2. Imagine Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland. He's one of the best international batsmen out there now, and in case he had represented Ireland then they could have become one of the top 5 teams.

3. Imagine a West Indies team with players such as Jofra Archer and Chris Jordan.

4. Imagine a Pakistani team with Fawad Ahmed, Imran Tahir and Usman Khawaja.

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Quote from: teosanru on December 07, 2019, 11:52:59 AM

Quote from: UmerIdrees on December 07, 2019, 11:32:46 AM

Quote from: iram3130 on December 07, 2019, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: mersal on December 07, 2019, 04:30:01 AM

Patriotism even while playing also.Kudoos for that kind of people.

Money is not entirely important when it comes to national duties which applies same for the games as well.Give your best no matter how much you are getting paid for that then world will remember them for too long.

I dont think cricket has got what it had right now, there was a time when a match between 2 nations was more than a war but now its just a sport with money. Thats why very less hard core fans these days.

The cricket matches between cricket India and Pakistan is still considered as a war between the two. The same is with the Ashes series between Australia and England. The money does play an important part in the game but still the spirit of the game is still there.
The only thing which has changed is the difference between the good and bad teams have increased a lot. India, England and Australian teams are way too good than SouthAfrica, Pakistan, srilanka, West Indies etc and so the most of the matches become one sided.

I think this is the reason why world is shifting to T20 because this format is pretty much unpredictable. Things can change with each ball in such shorter version of the game and therefore teams get and equal opportunity no matter how worse they look on the sheets. Moreover I think cricket is now becoming much more like football more and more teams are getting involved thus expanding the whole ranking and fight arena. Moreover leagues happening all around the world will give teams chance to remove this difference.

I agree and also T20 cricket gives many new countries a chance to win against the top teams like you said, it gives an equal opportunity and I think this is good for cricket in the long term. It will also help cricket expand in countries where cricket wasn't a sport like we are seeing in Canada where they now have their own T20 league and I'm sure we'll start to see more T20 leagues pop up around the world in the coming years.

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on December 07, 2019, 11:32:46 AM

Quote from: iram3130 on December 07, 2019, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: mersal on December 07, 2019, 04:30:01 AM

Patriotism even while playing also.Kudoos for that kind of people.

Money is not entirely important when it comes to national duties which applies same for the games as well.Give your best no matter how much you are getting paid for that then world will remember them for too long.

I dont think cricket has got what it had right now, there was a time when a match between 2 nations was more than a war but now its just a sport with money. Thats why very less hard core fans these days.

The cricket matches between cricket India and Pakistan is still considered as a war between the two. The same is with the Ashes series between Australia and England. The money does play an important part in the game but still the spirit of the game is still there.
The only thing which has changed is the difference between the good and bad teams have increased a lot. India, England and Australian teams are way too good than SouthAfrica, Pakistan, srilanka, West Indies etc and so the most of the matches become one sided.

I think this is the reason why world is shifting to T20 because this format is pretty much unpredictable. Things can change with each ball in such shorter version of the game and therefore teams get and equal opportunity no matter how worse they look on the sheets. Moreover I think cricket is now becoming much more like football more and more teams are getting involved thus expanding the whole ranking and fight arena. Moreover leagues happening all around the world will give teams chance to remove this difference.

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