DagCoin: a cryptocurrency without blocks - page 13.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: monsterer on October 17, 2015, 04:55:59 AM

I don't think transactions in DagCoin go into more than one tip, do they? Not unless we're talking about double spends anyway.

If every transaction goes into only one tip then you get a tree, not a DAG.

Quote from: monsterer on October 17, 2015, 04:55:59 AM

In any case, surely the only actual evidence of passed time *is* the number of blocks, or rather accumulated work? That's why 0 confirmation transactions are not safe in bitcoin - there is no evidence of work done.

If that my condition is true (waiting time >> block time) then there is no difference between number of blocks, passed time and accumulated work.

monsterer

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 17, 2015, 02:50:54 AM

After some adaptation period when a transaction is included into most of tips you need to wait constant time without paying attention to difficulty. A similar thing exists in blockchain-based PoW coins - it's passed time that matters, not number of blocks (if waiting time >> block time, which is necessary to reduce effect of variation).

I don't think transactions in DagCoin go into more than one tip, do they? Not unless we're talking about double spends anyway.

In any case, surely the only actual evidence of passed time *is* the number of blocks, or rather accumulated work? That's why 0 confirmation transactions are not safe in bitcoin - there is no evidence of work done.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: monsterer on October 16, 2015, 05:24:57 PM

This is true, but if you don't have a continuously adjusting difficulty, how can you tell what the amount of work is required to 'confirm' a transaction?

After some adaptation period when a transaction is included into most of tips you need to wait constant time without paying attention to difficulty. A similar thing exists in blockchain-based PoW coins - it's passed time that matters, not number of blocks (if waiting time >> block time, which is necessary to reduce effect of variation).

monsterer

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 16, 2015, 11:21:00 AM

If you count weight of blocks depending on difficulty you don't have problems with sybil attack. 10 blocks with difficlty 2 and 1 block with difficulty 20 are the same.

This is true, but if you don't have a continuously adjusting difficulty, how can you tell what the amount of work is required to 'confirm' a transaction?

myagui

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This is a lot of block-talk for a cryptocurrency without blocks. Roll Eyes

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: monsterer on October 16, 2015, 10:03:55 AM

By 'maximum network difficulty' I refer to a difficulty adjusted to cope with participation as in bitcoin. Given that, if you have differing sets of difficulty depending on where you put your new block in a DAG, it means that you can produce different numbers of blocks depending on placement for the same CPU power, hence this opens the system up to sybil attack.

If you count weight of blocks depending on difficulty you don't have problems with sybil attack. 10 blocks with difficlty 2 and 1 block with difficulty 20 are the same.

monsterer

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 16, 2015, 09:58:37 AM

Quote from: monsterer on October 16, 2015, 09:54:10 AM

Unless the difficulty of producing a new block is at maximum network difficulty, the system could be subject to sybil attack?

Why?

By 'maximum network difficulty' I refer to a difficulty adjusted to cope with participation as in bitcoin. Given that, if you have differing sets of difficulty depending on where you put your new block in a DAG, it means that you can produce different numbers of blocks depending on placement for the same CPU power, hence this opens the system up to sybil attack.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: monsterer on October 16, 2015, 09:54:10 AM

Unless the difficulty of producing a new block is at maximum network difficulty, the system could be subject to sybil attack?

Why?

monsterer

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I've been thinking about this on and off for a bit... How is difficulty handled in this system? The paper doesn't go into much detail, but it does hint at some kind of deterministic difficulty computation?

Unless the difficulty of producing a new block is at maximum network difficulty, the system could be subject to sybil attack?

sidhujag

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 08, 2015, 03:35:42 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on October 08, 2015, 02:46:02 PM

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

Ahh i guess its the way it is used then...

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: sidhujag on October 08, 2015, 02:46:02 PM

Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

DAG != DAG, we can say that Bitcoin uses DAG as well.

sidhujag

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Ethereum uses DAG aswell, any comparisons that can be made?

Delek

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Salí para ver

If we can't build a Blockchain system without Bitcoin, why will be possible to build a Bitcoin without a Blockchain?
It is interesting, because having a working proof of DagCoin will definitely separate the concepts of Blockchain and Crypto-Currency.

Looking forward to the 0.1 version release.

Sergio_Demian_Lerner

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on October 07, 2015, 07:35:29 AM

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):

+1

No block-chain representation will ever be nicer than that DAG-chain.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: myagui on October 07, 2015, 06:26:43 AM

   (((((((((o)))))))))
   (((( )))
[ ALICE ] (( Vaporware Cloud ))) [ BOB ]
   | (((( )) |
   | ((((((((((((o))))))))) |
   | |
   |___________ Magical Blockless TXs ____________|

_{Sorry, could not resist. I do hope that one day we get to see an actual implementation and the expectations turn out to be properly set.}

Here is a more informative picture (arrows show references, they are directed opposite to the timeline):

myagui

legendary

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(((((((((o)))))))))
(((( )))
[ ALICE ] (( Vaporware Cloud ))) [ BOB ]
| (((( )) |
| ((((((((((((o))))))))) |
| |
|___________ Magical Blockless TXs ____________|

_{Sorry, could not resist. I do hope that one day we get to see an actual implementation and the expectations turn out to be properly set.}

americanpegasus

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I'm evidently not as mathematically gifted as some of you in this thread and am having trouble wrapping my head around what is being proposed.

If anyone ever has any spare time, some Alice and Bob graphics to help clarify how exactly this network would work could help immensely.

Pab

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Does your coin is open source,i know currency half second transaction fast,running from one year

But not open source,.There is not possible to find exchange becouse not open source and not blockchain technology

Now 12 october beta test of yet another is starting,it will be exchangable to fiat.Proof of Time,supply will be through searching internet,currency will be backed by products

if anybody is intersted in ,feel free to pm me

chennan

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So, this is a really neat idea for a new coin and sounds like a possible winner in the long run of things, if bitcoin hits a real snag and can't come up with a plan of attack to fix the block size problem. But I was curious, so each "node" in the sense would have to be distributed geographically to be able to adequately send transactions in any part of the world? I'm just having trouble understanding how this could work without the blockchain system, and can't seem to grasp the idea that if say, no nodes where on the continent of Australia... then it would be very hard to transact to anyone that would want a transaction sent to them if they didn't run a "node themselves" ...

I was trying to read a majority of the thread, but honestly, I'm not in the mood for diving into reading a whole thread right now.

Also, has this coin been implemented yet? Or is there a specific release date?

GingerAle

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Quote from: rychallenge on September 25, 2015, 08:50:42 PM

it sounds like just a currency turned into a payment processing type structure....

Just like PayPal
How will coins be distributed without mining?

that hasn't been explicitly stated, but I believe it would work as a phase 2 of a cryptocurrency. I.e., once the emission is complete, this kicks in, similar to how some PoS systems work.

Topic: DagCoin: a cryptocurrency without blocks - page 13. (Read 70882 times)